posted 11-07-2000 03:24 PM            

quote:

---

...One of these [strange] things I observed was two jets, at very close to the same altitude, flting right at each other. I was watching a jet with a contrail, when all of a sudden I saw another jet of the same type, flying stright at the first, without a contrail. I only had a split second to take the picture and I didn't have time to focus. Both jets were exactly the same size in the sky, thus showing they were very close to the same altitude. This is just one example of unexplainable jet activity I have seen.

---

posted 11-08-2000 08:05 AM              

I have never seen a disturbance of either contrail in any of these type photos. This tends to make me believe the planes in these photos were separated much farther apart than is apparent in the photos.

posted 11-10-2000 10:47 PM            

i see 2 dc9's -30 series (or 717's) with a normal contrail. i will admit that the seperation between the two aircraft seems a bit close, bit what does this have to do with chemtrails?

posted 11-11-2000 01:09 AM            

Oh well, I guess I will just live in a pretend world where all conspiracies are just whacko stuff and believe that the Government would never do anything that might harm the public. They never do anything wrong. They never make mistakes.>Brent

Saturday October 21 1:00 PM ET
Paper: Government Ups Estimate of Plutonium Waste

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Energy Department has increased by 10 times its estimate of how much plutonium and other man-made radioactive material has been released in the ground or buried in poorly built containers, The New York Times said on Saturday.

The Times said that the department for years had stated that more than 97 percent of plutonium and related waste generated by the first four decades of nuclear weapons production was in ``retrievable'' storage awaiting burial at a new depository.

Only about 3 percent had been placed in soil or buried, it said.

Energy Department officials now say there is 10 times the amount of such wastes in the soil and in inadequate containers than previously estimated, the Times said.

The new estimate was said to come three years after an environmental group called the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research said the government's data was inconsistent and contradictory.

Dr. Arjun Makhijani, president of the group, told the Times that the government was doing little to address the problem of wastes in the dirt and in rusty, leaking barrels.

The Times cited a July letter to Makhijani from Carolyn Huntoon, assistant secretary for environmental management at the Energy Department, saying the department would not change the way it was managing the buried wastes.

The department's policy is to gather information on them and review them on a case-by-case basis, it said.

In a statement to the newspaper on Friday, Huntoon said the department would ask the National Academy of Sciences to review the Energy Department's strategies.

Huntoon added that the National Academy of Sciences backs the department's policies toward the wastes.

The Times said it was unclear how much material had leached into the ground at dump sites around the country.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001021/sc/arms_nuclear_dc_1.html

Friday November 3 6:07 AM ET
Baldwin Seeks Radioactivity Tests

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. (AP) - Alec Baldwin is asking county lawmakers for at least $50,000 to help fund a project that tests baby teeth for levels of a radioactive isotope.

The actor made his request Thursday before a committee of the Westchester County Legislature.

``This contamination is the result of a government program and therefore the government should pay for the research to determine the level of contamination in the community,'' he said.

The Tooth Fairy Project tests baby teeth for strontium-90, known as a byproduct of nuclear explosions. Baldwin's organization, the Radiation and Public Health Project, believes the isotope is being emitted at dangerous levels from nuclear power plants, including Indian Point plants in Westchester.

They say studies show the higher the level of strontium-90 in baby teeth, the greater their risk of developing cancer before age 5.

The nuclear industry and some scientists dispute the claims.

``We know that there isn't enough strontium released from plants to do the sort of things that they're talking about,'' said Carl Patrick, spokesman for the state Power Authority, which operates one of the Indian Point plants. ``We also know that strontium in people's teeth comes basically from dairy products and produce.''
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20001103/en/alec_baldwin_1.html

posted 11-11-2000 01:52 AM            

Thermit posted a pic from 1980 that showed what you call a chemtrail....more airtraffic excuse strikes again....

>Or maybe,"the debunkers here wouldn't recognize the truth if it spit in their face."<

That was not nice...

>Oh well, I guess I will just live in a pretend world where all conspiracies are just whacko stuff and believe that the Government would never do anything that might harm the public. They never do anything wrong. They never make mistakes.>Brent<

You probably are paranoid, you said it, and have too much time on your hands...as do I.....lol !

I have verified (pretty much) what type of plane is leaving the unusual trails in my area, what a day !

F/E will be here soon and then I will know...

So is norrin radd brent, or are you posting for him ????

I love this pic, she wants to eliminate the electorial college :

posted 11-11-2000 09:57 PM            

“I had never seen over 50% of the sky covered by contrails until last year. In 1999 I watched contrails cover 50% or more of the sky on a regular basis. I guess I am just paranoid. Or maybe, the debunkers here wouldn't recognize the truth if it spit in their face.”

Fifty percent is a little over kill.... In 1996 NASA reported a 20% increase in cloud cover over heavily traveled air corridors, and I would probably agree that in the last 4 years that figure could have easily increased to 25 percent. More planes.....more contrails.....more clouds.

We were all non-believers at one time, before being exposed to “chemtrail’ web sites and forums. We came, we looked, we researched, and we made our own decisions based on the facts and the fictions presented. Those who believed gained immediate acceptance. Those who didn’t believe.....were labeled debunkers.

Two months ago I walked the golf course 4 times a week and never saw a contrail. They were there.....I just never paid attention. Once I started to look, I was amazed at the magnitude of the contrails as they formed banks of cirrus clouds that drifted out over the Pacific.

Now this is were you separate the realist from the paranoid. A realist sees a heavy volume of contrails, and increased cloud cover. A paranoid sees planned aerial spraying of chemicals, vaccine, barium salts, fibers, etc......you get the picture?

My personal opinion as to why those who don’t believe in ‘chemtrails’ continue to stay active in the forums is this.....We have been insulted, ridiculed, attacked, silenced, and labeled debunkers by groups of paranoids. We want to be around when it comes time for them to eat their words.

posted 11-12-2000 05:23 AM            

History Undercover:
Declassified: Human Experimentation

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HISTORY UNDERCOVER presents a shocking look at the top-secret experiments conducted by the U.S. Military on human subjects. Some were exposed to radiation without their knowledge. Others were the test-beds for the effectiveness of bio-toxins, chemical warfare or dangerous drugs. In the name of "National Security," the truth about these experiments was hidden for years. But as DECLASSIFIED: HUMAN EXPERIMENTATION shows, in many cases they were conducted for far less pressing reasons.

Filled with disturbing interviews with those who took part in and administered these projects, this is an eye-opening examination of one of the strangest chapters of the Cold War, and an unflinching indictment of government at its worst.
http://store.aetv.com/cgi-bin/ae.storefront/0/Ext/OutsideFrame/UT/32/Product/42733

Brent

p.s. I am Brent and Norrin Radd. Brent is my real name. I gave up my anonymity when I started searching government websites, so I just totally came forward with my real name. I have 3 pieces at Sightings under my real name. If you type Brent Parker into the search engine, http://www.sightings.com/search.htm

you will find these 3 pieces..........

1. SIGHTINGS
Abstract: SIGHTINGS US Has Been Spraying/Open Air Testing On Its Citizens For 50 Years Open Air Testing With Simulated Biological and Chemical Warfare Agents By Leonard A. Cole, Ph.D.
(6,632 bytes - 11/4/99 12:35:15 AM GMT)


2. Short History Of US BioWeapons Testing On Innocent Civilians
Abstract: SIGHTINGS Short History Of US BioWeapons Testing On Innocent Civilians From. http:www.calpoly.edu/drjones/biowar-b.html#history. From Brent Parker 11-25-99.
(11,592 bytes - 11/27/99 12:04:04 AM GMT)


3. Do Individuals Have The Right To Bear Arms?
Abstract: SIGHTINGS Do Individuals Have The Right To Bear Arms? From Brent Parker 4-29-00. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a swor
(25,666 bytes - 4/30/00 12:48:34 AM GMT)

My e-mail has changed, I am now.....

norrin38@aol.com

posted 11-12-2000 08:14 AM              

So, here you are, along with others, quoting an expert on the subject, a person with credibility and past testimony before congress, but not even one person ever bothered to talk with the guy?

What's your excuse?

posted 11-13-2000 10:42 AM            

What else do you need to know? Closed minded fools like you Jay, are one of the biggest problems in this country. You could be spending your time fighting to right some wrong, yet you persist in arguing against something you don't even believe in. Why not fight for something you do believe in? Do you believe in anything?

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IT IS UNREASONABLE TO WANT A nATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE CHEMTRAIL ISSUE?

posted 11-13-2000 01:54 PM              

Norrin:Closed minded fools like you Jay, are one of the biggest problems in this country. You could be spending your time fighting to right some wrong, yet you persist in arguing against something you don't even believe in.

JR:Gullible fools like yourself are one of the biggest problems in this country, norrin.. My stand is well known, I fight against deception, for truth, and for the benefit of all, including yourself, norrin. Of course I fight against something I don't believe in. You just don't realize it yet, but I hope you will soon.

Norrin: Why not fight for something you do believe in? Do you believe in anything?
JR: see above

Norrin: PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY IT IS UNREASONABLE TO WANT A nATIONAL INVESTIGATION INTO THE CHEMTRAIL ISSUE?

JR: The chemtrails idea is very similar to the "hollow earth" idea, which you may have heard about, http://www.sff.net/people/MBourne/W-OurHollowEarth.htp
and the reptilian idea, http://www.reptoids.com/
and the "rods" idea, http://www.roswellrods.com/
and the "silver balls" idea. http://www.coolboard.com/boardshow.cfm?msgboard=93362682249756&idDispSub=421829323606015&viewmode=12359878132472
and the radar "blobs" idea http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chemtrailtrackingusa

They have much in common, significantly that they each have coteries of "true believers" and not much else.

This "national investigation" you propose, would this be undertaken using money taken from "the people"? If so, yes, such an expenditure is unreasonable, as would be such an expense conducting a "national investigation" of any of the above paradigms
using the purloined assets of people who do not share the "belief".

In fact, the Congressional Research Service already did such an investigation. No chemtrail believer submitted any proof at all.

posted 11-13-2000 03:04 PM            

I'd been away for a while, and just ran across some of your posts today. How're things back in Ohio? I haven't been doing that much on the Internet recently. My wife and I are taking a couple of night courses at the local community college, I was doing a bit of traveling for the death-dealers (hopefully I'm done with that!), and I have a new digital camera and a 10th-grader who expects me to go to the track meets and shoot him and his teammates (with the digital camera, of course --he doesn't have a death wish).

And I'm still keeping up my three months' food and water supply - I'm ready for either Y3K or an aerospace engineering layoff!

But, in keeping with my inability to keep my nose out of other posters' business, I did think I'd respond to your post to Brother Reynolds. Since you were the one who got me looking into contrails two years ago, you gotta put up with my arguments - it's some sort of federal guideline or something....

I'm not very familiar with Dr. Cole, his testimony, subsequent phone calls with Jay, or even the fact that he's the dude that many Chemtrail proponents mention in their views. But it seems to me that he'd said that the USG has sprayed US citizens - military and/or civilians - in the past.

I'm not the least bit surprised. Uncle Whiskers has done many thoroughly nasty things to the people, mostly under the guise of war or 'national security'. I understand that, back in the sixties, they even laced unsuspecting folks food with LSD as a test (and to think I had to score mine from Dealer McDope down on the corner - bummer!)

But you know that having done something in the past, whether forcing blacks to use a different restroom, stuffing LSD in our pancake-syrup, spraying civilians with Ghod-knows-what, or putting soldiers in slit trenches a thousand meters from an A-bomb test (yes, they did that, too!) does not mean they do it now.

It doesn't mean that they're not capable of it! Their past history says those jerks are capable of just about anything. But the government isn't about to investigate something because you said they did bad juju in the past -- any more than they're about to do a special investigation for Jesse Jackson or Gloria Steinem because we used to buy and sell black slaves or keep women from voting.

If there's no evidence of them doing something NOW, then no one in the mainstream press, government watchdog agencies, or even the Blindpuncher Memorial Old Folk's Home in Palm Beach, Florida is going to be the least bit interested. You know that. That might not be fair, but that's simply the way it is.

But there are three other reasons why a government investigation into contrails wouldn't do much good:

1. It costs money, and most people think the government is already spending too much money on federal programs like pornographic art or studying why chickens don't have lips. I know that you consider this sort of investigation as much more serious than my first two examples, but to most people, there simply isn't any difference.

2. If there WERE an investigation and there really WERE a big plot to spray bad juju over the people, do you suppose the government would admit to it? Hey, if the plotters have suborned all the aerospace engineers, the military, the pilots and meteorologists and who-knows who else, wouldn't the congress-critters be in on the game? So they'd cover it up!

3. Finally, if there WERE an investigation and there really WEREN'T a big plot to spray bad juju over the people, do you suppose the people on the Carnicom board would believe the report? Let's face it, a lot of these people (present company excluded) are into every possible type of conspiracy theory. Sure as shootin', they'd take any government report as "whitewash" and say that's all the more proof that the congressweenies are in on the plot.

Congressional inquiry? It's simply a non-issue. The ONLY thing I can think of that might get congress off its collective gluteus maximus is to convince mainstream people and media that there is evidence. And until you have that evidence (like identifiable substances collected in situ and analyzed in a laboratory and published openly), you're just going to be chasing your tail.

Photographs of contrails? Most people consider taking pictures of contrails as a method of showing proof of chemical spraying as being like the guy who takes thousands of pictures of Christmas presents in an effort to prove the existence of Santa Claus.

Regards,

posted 11-13-2000 04:00 PM            

Good to hear from you. I hope you keep that new camera handy and if you actually do wind up seeing anything that looks unusual to you, you'll share it with us.

You make many good points, plus you didn't mention Reptoids.

I think that an investigation would not produce any real results. This is because, IMHO, the spraying is intended to protect us from biowar and therefore it must be kept secret. I don't think that congress people are in on it (nor aerospace or meteorologists), and I don't think they can pry deep enough into the miltary/intelligence complex to determine the truth. And even if they did get some hints, they would realize (or simply be told) that it must remain a secret to protect the status quo. Exposing or admitting the secret would demonstrate that the threat of bio attack is very real, this would create a general panic, markets would fall, people stop paying taxes, etc. The only positive thing that I could see coming from an inquiry would be to raise awareness of the issue somewhat. Six major market news stories is good, but a congressional inquiry is great exposure! But of course, in the end there would be plenty of plausable denyability for anyone who wanted it.

posted 11-14-2000 02:23 AM            

Good to hear from you. I was beginning to think you were avoiding me. I'm glad things are going good for you, I am loving my new computer and not loving the same arguments over and over. Obviously, I have not changed my opinion and neither have you. The debate is pointless. 50-100 YEARS FROM NOW, SOMEBODY MIGHT LEARN THE TRUTH.

Brent

p.s. Is this guy really a project manager at Nasa? Please answer if it is not difficult for you to check on this. thanks.

(From the link)
Crop Pictograms in the United Kingdom

By Alan Holt

M.S. Physical Science (astrophysics)

PostScript: Alan Holt is currently a project manager for NASA's International Space Station: The above does not necessarily reflect the views of NASA and are the sole views of Alan Holt http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/reports/alanholt_uk_pictograms.htm