posted 01-12-2001 03:20 AM            

that dumbell with a periscope could not fly un-heard...and most certainly due to it's shape would expend a tremendous amount of energy....I don't know how chemtrails are involved in debunking this obvious "leap"...

I assure you brent my intensions are completely self serveing....and am being true to myself in seeing this through.... how would you know whether I am politically active in other areas ?

>Are you helping anyone or any issue by debunking chemtrails? No, you are not. <

That is your perception...

I need a tissue....sniff...

posted 01-12-2001 07:04 AM            

Silence is acceptance, Radd.

posted 01-12-2001 08:56 AM            

I guess that I'll have to store a standard reply somewhere, so that all I have to do is cut & paste.

Here goes anyway,

We do it:

Because innocent people are being viciously libelled.
Because public health is compromised if you are chasing the wrong quarry.
Because fear and trepidation are being created where none existed.
Because considerable time and energy is being wasted on a non-issue.
Because there are people who are profitting from this.

The Truth is important to many people and to see it flouted is not pleasant.

I know that I'm never going to convince everyone that spraying is not happening, but I have convinced several people in the past, and they have thanked me for freeing them from the fear that stalked them daily.

Now back to cases:

I see from another board a statement from Mr Thomas in which he confirms that no causal link between air-born particles, respiratory problems, and 'chemtrails' has ever been adduced. This is teh point which I have continually stressed on these boards. There is no proof! I have begged for evidence, and been abused for my pains. Yet I continue.

I still seek answers to questions such as why every single theory propounded by the chemmies still can't explain why in some areas, people claim that the spraying is happening every single day. If one day's spraying in an area causes respiratory ailments, why are the people in these areas still alive?

I also have problems with some of the people who are the most vigorous proponents of spraying. On the Carnicom site, three of the contributors have posted that members of their family have expressed strong doubts about their mental health. Enough said. When loved ones are concerned, then there is cause for alarm, and these people should seek medical health now. Other proponents have advocated shooting down a 'plane, damaging property, and other unlawful means to express their unhappiness. Still others have posted URL's to hate sites of the worst type (anti-semitism, racism etc etc.)

posted 01-12-2001 10:23 AM            

I just posted my reply under Debate and Debunking and titled it, Integrity, my ass.

posted 01-12-2001 01:50 PM            

Point 1/A. You just slandered Jay Reynolds, a real person and that is his real name, or is it libel? I suppose it would be libel, but what saves you is your pseudonym.

Point 2 - Prove it. Most chemmies are interested in homeopathic remedies and Mark Sky stated himself he won't go to a doctor, that is of course unless he has since he made that statement(date and statement can be retrieved for the protection of the innocent.) There are widespread nose and lung funguses that are diagnosed as sinusitis and bronchitis, treated with anti-biotics that don't work on fungus. I have an extremely compromised immune system, so why don't I get chemtrail illness?

Point 3 – Classic paranoia. It happened before so now they're after me. As I have stated numerous times previously, why wouldn't anyone who believes they are being sprayed take the elementary step to identify the planes?

Point 4 – That’s a 2-way street, except one side is becoming vicious and malicious, and in your case, profane. If one new person visits this board and reads these statements about what "chemtrails" is really all about, then it is worth every minute I put into it.

Point 5 - The smoker doesn’t benefit from the sale of cigarettes and the alcoholic doesn’t benefit from liquor sales. Good point, Cyq. And explains why reputable websites, like the ones I posted under another thread won’t touch this subject. “I read it in THE ENQUIRER so it must be true, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to publish it, right?” The Enquirer also has advertisers and charges over a $1 an issue.

Have you signed the "e the people" on-line petition cyq?

posted 01-12-2001 03:07 PM            

How many decades did it take for the Government to admit that Agent orange was harmful? Veterans could not get treatment for agent orange, so they had to sign a paper saying they had mental health problems in order to get treatment for Agent orange.

How many decades did it take for the truth to come out about the LSD experiments?

How many decades did it take for the truth to come out about the radiation experiments?

How many decades did it take for the truth about the spraying of San Francisco and Minneapolis to come out? (Most of these experiments are still classified)

How much longer will it take for the Government to admit DU is hazardous? How much longer until the find the cause of GWI?

I ADMIT THAT I HAVE NO PROOF THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE HARMFUL OR THAT THEY ARE EVEN ABNORMAL, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PROOF DOESN'T EXIST, IT'S JUST THAT IF IT DOES EXIST, THE GOVERNMENT HAS IT.

There have been numerous examples of the government testing on military, veterans and civilians, then lying about it and covering it up.

This is enough evidence to make me question what I see in the sky.

If you want to fight for something, why not pick something worth fighting for.

Chemtrail debukers are wasting their time. I would bet not a single chemtrail debunker has ever done one tenth of the research I have done on the above mentioned experiments.

Some people just don't care about what our Government has done in the past.

Pathetic.

Brent

posted 01-12-2001 03:59 PM            

By contrast, when you look at the idiotic quality of the responses by the debunkers (and I don't include "Sceptic" in this category) it becomes evident that people like Node and LTC aren't really interested in a dialog at all....only provocation. I love to discuss things in a rational way with those who may have differing opnions, but some people have no concept of rational. They are completely incapable of rational thought and honest, civilized discussion as Node is proud to demonstrate.

You are dealing with the completely irrational and braindead, Brent.....now you may see why the only direction these people can carry a conversation is immature and mindless bickering.....there's no point in it. I will engage sincere people like Sceptic (with different points of view) in conversation and debate. But Node is a completely hopless cause. It's like trying to push a feather through a brick wall, you're not going to find any signs of intelligence or common sense there....

posted 01-12-2001 08:23 PM            

And I don't understand what the Tuskeegee Airmen, a black pilot unit have to do with your point. How were they experimented on and who should apologize to them?

As for you CYQ, there is no debating with you because every time I make my points, short and to the point, you resort to a personal attack. Instead of taking each point and making your statements in debate to mine, you go off. I can only assume you do this because I disagree or contradict what you say and you don't know any other way to respond. (By any chance are you Islamic; am I up against some kind of cultural thing against women?) If you have an argument to what I said above, take each point and state your case as I did to yours, briefly. Your explosiveness serves no purpose, especially to me, so try really hard to get passed that, OK?

Why don't you start another thread under Freeform and tell us about some of your flying experiences. Writing about things and experiences you have first hand knowledge of are good for the spirit.

posted 01-12-2001 08:45 PM            

IDIOT.

Anyways, I will try to steer clear of all cap statements in the future if it is so offensive.

I apologise for the Tuskegee airmen mistake. It was the tuskegee experiment, of which Clinton just apologised to the 8 survivors a few years back. Anyone know how long it took for the government to admit to this experiment?

Here is an excerpt from the apology from Clinton to the eight survivors, please read it.........
http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn di://oma.eop.gov.us/1997/5/16/11.text.1
(Clinton)
The eight men who are survivors of the syphilis study at
Tuskegee are a living link to a time not so very long ago that many
Americans would prefer not to remember, but we dare not forget. It was
a time when our nation failed to live up to its ideals, when our nation
broke the trust with our people that is the very foundation of our
democracy. It is not only in remembering that shameful past that we can
make amends and repair our nation, but it is in remembering that past
that we can build a better present and a better future. And without
remembering it, we cannot make amends and we cannot go forward.

So today America does remember the hundreds of men used in
research without their knowledge and consent. We remember them and
their family members. Men who were poor and African American, without
resources and with few alternatives, they believed they had found hope
when they were offered free medical care by the United States Public
Health Service. They were betrayed.

Medical people are supposed to help when we need care, but
even once a cure was discovered, they were denied help, and they were
lied to by their government. Our government is supposed to protect the
rights of its citizens; their rights were trampled upon. Forty years,
hundreds of men betrayed, along with their wives and children, along
with the community in Macon County, Alabama, the City of Tuskegee, the
fine university there, and the larger African American community.

The United States government did something that was wrong
-- deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our
commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens.

To the survivors, to the wives and family members, the
children and the grandchildren, I say what you know: No power on Earth
can give you back the lives lost, the pain suffered, the years of
internal torment and anguish. What was done cannot be undone. But we
can end the silence. We can stop turning our heads away. We can look
at you in the eye and finally say on behalf of the American people, what
the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry.
(Applause.)

The American people are sorry -- for the loss, for the
years of hurt. You did nothing wrong, but you were grievously wronged.
I apologize and I am sorry that this apology has been so long in coming.
(Applause.)

To Macon County, to Tuskegee, to the doctors who have been
wrongly associated with the events there, you have our apology, as well.
To our African American citizens, I am sorry that your federal
government orchestrated a study so clearly racist. That can never be
allowed to happen again. It is against everything our country stands
for and what we must stand against is what it was.

So let us resolve to hold forever in our hearts and minds
the memory of a time not long ago in Macon County, Alabama, so that we
can always see how adrift we can become when the rights of any citizens
are neglected, ignored and betrayed. And let us resolve here and now to
move forward together.

The legacy of the study at Tuskegee has reached far and
deep, in ways that hurt our progress and divide our nation. We cannot
be one America when a whole segment of our nation has no trust in
America. An apology is the first step, and we take it with a commitment
to rebuild that broken trust. We can begin by making sure there is
never again another episode like this one. We need to do more to ensure
that medical research practices are sound and ethical, and that
researchers work more closely with communities.
(END)

posted 01-12-2001 10:58 PM            

"But I can talk aerodynamics with you all day. I could explain Bernoulli’s principal of compressible fluid dynamics in great detail and why a symmetrical or asymmetrical airfoil surface creates a low pressure area on the upper surface depending on its inclination to the relative wind."

posted 01-12-2001 11:25 PM            

since you have such extensive knowledge of aerodymamics, weather and such, explain to me how any chemical - liquid or gas - released at such altitudes as has been reported, would ever reach the ground. when a substance is released from the air and is heavy enough to reach the ground it is also visable. RAIN. moisture that is not heavy enough to reach the ground is evaporated into the atmosphere. has anyone seen a chemtrail that rains onto the ground?

posted 01-13-2001 01:03 AM            

I like to stay in this quantum reality...

>I could talk to you about induced drag and induced lift.....but these would all be terms of aerodynamics, and wing design wouldn’t they?<

That was my point that dumbell with a periscope moving at 300 mph would make enough noise to drown out my snoring...at 600 mph would have one dynamic resonance frequency...

>Point is, who said a UFO, a machine presumably designed for travel in space and possibly between dimensional realities, would be an aerodynamic machine?<

No, it would'nt but said machine would be governed by the physical laws here when in our time....

>Why would it need aerodynamic surfaces? Why do you assume that a machine of these capabilities would even be interacting with aerodynamic forces anyway? Doesn’t make sense that it would, now would it? See and understand my previous post on this thread to LTC......I see no reason to re-type the point, when I said it all the first time.<

Don't really like to speculate on assumption...but those are interesting thoughts....