posted 04-08-2001 11:15 PM            

Sorry to leave you out.

We don't take requests, though. We only do flyovers for Veteran's Day and Memorial Day, football games/sporting events, and missing man for funerals.

I doubt that the F-16 would be used to deliberately harass someone. My pick would be something a little more noisy like a B-1 in afterburner or a fleet of UH-1s. Like I mentioned before, the pilots would be in a great deal of trouble if they were deliberately putting on an air show over someone's house.

Reference last year's incident east of Lubbock, Texas when a Texas Air National Guard pilot from Fort Worth was flying solo back from Utah. He decided to "stop in" overhead a family members' house and put on a low altitude display of the F-16s maneuvering capability. He overestimated that capability somewhat and flew the jet right into the ground. Quite frankly, this guy was an idiot. He had no business taking our (yes, OUR, as in us taxpayers) plane and selfishly breaking several major flight rules and at least one UCMJ violation. And, on an even worse level, this pilot undermined the professional reputation that military aviators and officers are supposed to uphold. I feel sorry for his death and the pain that it is causing his family. It's too bad that he died doing something stupid.

Like I mentined earlier, I have other stories of pilots who have screwed up. Most have ended up being grounded or worse. These idiotic acts don't happen very often, though. The fighter pilot community is a small one, and when someone gets in trouble for being unsafe then everyone usually hears about it.

Like I mentioned before, NSASucks, if this event really did occur then I suggest that you and/or your friend write letters in to the editor of the local newspaper. Then, contact the nearest AF base's Public Affairs Office. My guess is that the pilots weren't targeting you. Instead, I'd venture to say that they were either flying patterns at a local airport (it doesn't have to be a miitary airfield) or they were being idiots and doing some type of flyover for a friend or family member.

Our "electronic pods" are the LANTIRN system, and not all F-16s have them. The imagery gained from them is not very good quality, and a more covert asset (satellite or the van parked across the street) would probably be a better option if someone was wanting to keep an eye on you.

Off the subject a little, I'm curious to find out if anyone out there has any information pertaining to the two F-15s that crashed in northern England a few weeks ago. Like I said, we usually hear the inside scoop on items such as this, but I have yet to hear ONE word on what caused the crash or even any speculation on why it happened. Does anybody have anything posted on this?

Maverick

posted 04-09-2001 03:18 AM            

Speak of the devil, and ta-dah! There he is! Flightsuit and all!
All ready to jump right on in there and play footsies with peoples common sense again. Even though you don't like to, let's be rational here, just for a minute, OK?

Of course a jet pilot is going to get himself in trouble by disregarding constraints and/or orders. The same pilot (trained chimp) is going to get himself in trouble if he questions or refuses to obey orders to do something that he himself might not quite understand the real reasoning behind.

How the hell is Joe pee-on pilot going to get in trouble, if he is simply following what he has been instructed to do? Everybody in the military either takes or gives orders, and 99% do both. Each time an order comes from a higher and higher link in the chain of command, the number of people it is accountable to, DROPS significantly.

posted 04-09-2001 12:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Military Lies:
Even though you don't like to, let's be rational here, just for a minute, OK?

---

I thought that I was being rational. On the other hand, I get a reply from you that baselessly attacks me. Who's not being rational?

You make a lot of statements about us "trained chimps" and following orders. You make one mistake in your post in assuming that all orders have to be obeyed. As a matter of fact, they do not. I spent a lot of time when becoming an officer discussing what exactly constitutes a "lawful order."

Contrary to what you see on TV or watch at the local theater, if an order is given that requires the "trained chimp" to break ANY regulation, law, or code, then that order is not valid. In addition, the person issuing the order is responsible for issuing it. So, if I were told to go harass NSASucks by flying over his house, then I would refuse to obey the order because it would require me to break Air Force regulations. In addition, I would question the person issuing the order and possibly take it up the chain of command until something is done about it. Contrary to what you may believe, there is accountability in my line of work.

Military Lies, I'm not attacking you here. Don't attack me. I don't care what you think about my fellow men an women in uniform. As insulting and baseless as your remarks are, at least I'm being courteous to you.

Maverick

posted 04-09-2001 10:19 PM            

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was able to check into it at work today, and I didn't come up with much. But, here goes anyway.

There are no low-level routes that traverse through the Kelowna area. There are a few low-level training areas in Canada as well as a few long routes, but none of them are near you. There are a few "alert" areas near Kelowna that appear to be the same as U.S. military operations areas (MOAs.) There could be high-speed, low altitude training going on in one of these areas. The nearest one to you starts about five miles (8km) east of Vernon. It's about five-by-ten miles (8x13km) and the airspace goes from the surface to 6,200 feet.

Based on the information that I have, I don't think that you are seeing aircraft on a low-level route. More likely, I'm guessing, you are seeing aircraft departing from/arriving at Kelowna airport. They could be military, even though Kelowna is not a military base. The reason I am saying that is from the map, Kelowna's 7,200 foot-long runway is the longest in the area and it looks like a good spot to stop over for gas when flying cross-country to/from the west coast bases in Comox or Abbotsford. Also, civilian jet aircraft (business jets) would look at Kelowna as a good intermediate stopover point when transiting to/from Vancouver.

I don't know where you live in regards to the airport in Kelowna, but it appears to me that the airfield is on the northwest corner of town near to the lake. Does it appear that these planes are coming to/from this area of town?

Kelowna airport's airspace looks like they route air traffic in and out of Kelowna via a north-south direction along lake Okanagan. An aircraft taking off to the north and headed east will fly north or northeast before turning east on course.

Well, I hope I'm helping you out some. If you really want to get curious, I think that I may be able to get the number to the folks in the control tower. I won't post it online, but if you e-mail me I'll try to send it to you. Even if the aircraft are not flying in to the airport, the folks in the control tower will know what is flying in the area.

posted 04-10-2001 01:29 AM            

Speaking of our skies, You still haven't seen anthing "unusual" huh?.... heh heh....... Yeah, Mr. "pilot". We all believe you.

As far as following orders, YOUR version is much closer aligned with Hollywood, than with reality.

posted 04-10-2001 02:08 AM            

Military Lies, name one time on this board or any other that I've lied or been a "disinfo slug." Show me the proof. Just ONE. If not, then cut the crap, and let's move on to the real issues and not your feeble attempts to discredit me. I'm not cuddling up to anybody on this message board, but I am being polite. Polite, that is, until I get personally attacked by you. I believe that I do have the right to defend myself here.

I'm not here to be constantly harassed by someone who makes accusations against me yet has not one shred of evidence to back up the claims. Your attempt to paint me as anything other than what I am fails miserably when you offer nothing as proof. So offer the proof, or "respectfully" shut the hell up. Or go to China. Either way, hiding behind your keyboard is a cowardly way to attack someone. I prefer to address confrontation in person, in a peaceful manner, until the situation dictates otherwise.

Maverick (topgun0069@hotmail dot com)

posted 04-10-2001 08:49 AM            

Hey bud, I'm not "attacking" anybody. I'm just here to make sure the truth gets a fair shake.

The Truth is one of two, and ONLY two possibilities in your case:
a) You are either not really a pilot, or....
b) You are a LYING pilot.

Yes.... It really IS just that simple.

One last thing tough guy..... You should be counting your blessings flyboy. You have no idea what would be left of you if I ever got the opportunity to get my hands around your little pencil neck. Believe me... I've thought about it plenty.

No cops.... No weapons.... No friends.... Just you and me boy.

posted 04-10-2001 09:31 AM            

THE TOPGUNN ZONE: Where there are no chemtrails, the military doesn't to fly-overs of its own citizens who won't take their drugs. Don't adjust your TV set, they are in control.

posted 04-10-2001 11:37 AM            

Just because someone doesn't realize this doesn't make them a liar or an agent.

I've got a Chemtrail-skeptical friend, if I had pushed him to come on this board, he would probably be labeled a government disinformation slug by some, when that is simply not true. That is a fact.

TopGun isn't here to tell us Chemtrails are not real. He has never done that. He has stated that he doesn't officially know anything about the operation, and I believe him. He is a F-16 pilot for goodness sakes, not a tanker pilot, he wouldn't have any official reason to know. This is an aviation related subject and it is valuable to be able to ask him about related things and have him correct errors. So, if you don't want to hear from him, just don't ask him any questions and don't engage him at all. Don't ask, don't tell. Maybe the military does lie, just like corporations and governments, but that doesn't mean that every member of those groups is a liar. This is easily shown to be true by the many Chemtrail observers who were in the USAF.

To summarize, Chemtrails are real.

posted 04-10-2001 12:17 PM            

I live south of the airport which is N/E of Kelowna NOT N/W and about 10 to 15 miles away from Lake Okanagan up Highway 97, so planes use the North to South route when landing/taking off, but a ways from the lake. The route I am curious about is the N/E to S/W route, both low-altitude and high-altitude.

posted 04-11-2001 06:53 AM            

Now, if flyboy reads this, I want these points addressed and ANSWERED, or he is PROVING his dishonesty for all to see.

First of all, I just came back from the thread entitled "TopGunn, come see this!". In it, he states that he STILL believes nothing unusual is going on in the skies. He said that if there is any increase in "CONtrail" activity, it is because of 1)"increased pollution" or 2) "increased air traffic". OK.... lets examine that.

How does his theories explain all of the ANOMALIES specific to chemtrails. How does increased air traffic or pollution explain:

1) X's, O's, S's, u-turns, tic-tac-toes, grids, ect...... ?

2) City wide FLEETS of 6, 8, 10, or 12 planes, laying down trails side by side, SIMULTANEOUSLY?

3) Sprayplanes that lay down a 30 or 40 mile trail, then turn around and lay down another one in the opposing direction, again and again?

4) Trails that are obviously, and ABRUPTLY switched on, or off?

5) Trails that are repeatedly raining down what looks like a white haze, leaving a fine white dust on peoples cars, trucks, vegetables in the garden, ect......?

6) Trails, that when they have fanned out and left a milky haze covering the sky, cause a chemically induced CHEMBOW halo around the sun?

7) Real time Satellite photos that regularly contradict the ones being shown to the public on the various networks and weather channel?

8) Normal air traffic admittedly being rerouted to accommdate an ongoing "military exercise"?

9) Major media and government SILENCE even though they have BOTH been INUNDATED with thousands upon thousands of repoerts by citizens"?

10) Harassment of citizens (including myself) who have done NOTHING whatsoever, except try to get to the bottom of this mystery?

11) Trails that are heavy everyday for weeks, then suddenly NOTHING for days under the exact same upper and lower atmosperic conditions..... conditions where the formation of contrails is IMPOSSIBLE?

12) Dozens and dozens of trails, day after day, in NON COMMERCIAL AIR TRAFFIC locations? Places where the planes in the sky CANNOT be accounted for?

It just goes on and on. I have NEVER tried to claim that our boy, TopGunn0069, is actually a part of the spraying itself. However, since he refuses to answer the above questions, and has offered us the preposterous notion that he is "unaware of anything unusual" in the skies, I submit that this man is..... a) Not a pilot, or b) A pilot that is helping to cover up this OBVIOUS program.

Thermit, there is NO WAY that a reasonable person could be expected to believe that a "pilot" is oblivious to these bizarre facts that I just laid out above, when even an ordinary non-flying civilian can see that these things CANNOT be explained by "increased air traffic" or "increased pollution". This man (I use the term loosely) is spending half his time on this board, and the other half, on others. Can't you see that this guys JOB is to continue to insist that "All is normal"? He says that the Air Force is "not involved in any spraying operation". How could the United States Air Force NOT be involved, or at LEAST be supporting and ALLOWING it to go on???

Sure, maybe this guy is not a sprayplane pilot, but that is NOT MY POINT!!! Don't you understand that? Listen CAREFULLY. My point is:

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS MAN IS REALLY A PILOT IF HE TRULY DOES NOT NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL IN THE SKIES. IF HE REALLY IS A PILOT, THEN HE IS LYING BY CAIMING THAT HE BELIEVES THIS TO BE THE RESULT OF INCREASED AIR TRAFFIC OR POLLUTION.

STOP BEING TAKEN IN BY THIS COVER UP CON ARTIST!

He devotes WAY too much time and energy trying to explain away what should be OBVIOUS to anybody with common sense. He patrols the board just WAITING to pounce on anybody that might question his hollow explanations, and he's usually on them in NO TIME.

posted 04-11-2001 11:45 AM            

quote:

---

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS MAN IS REALLY A PILOT IF HE TRULY DOES NOT NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL IN THE SKIES.

---

TML, your assertion that all pilots are aware of the Chemtrail operation is questionable. Let me refer you to a statement by Alcon, a commercial pilot who is aware of the operation:

quote:

---

From Alcon @ CTTUSA:

Pilots like things neatly arranged in 'black and white' like our instruments!
Serioulsy, the discussions I have with my crewmembers seem to be; "where are
your sources?", et cetera...

Sometimes I think the pilots I fly with were all born in Missouri!! "Show me the proof" etc. As I mentioned, I also was skeptical of all this Chemtrail news, until I observed and was physically affected from such. NOTE: Of interest to you and all; I had a jump seat rider from OKC to IAH and he's on USAF reserve duty (Tinker AFB OKC unit tanker driver..KC-10) and I presented him directly with the question; "Do you know anything about Chemtrails?". His response was interesting..instead of asking me what a 'chemtrail' was he just replied (without eye contact).."Nothin".....Something to think about...

---

So, my point is that Alcon has had discussions with other commerical pilots about Chemtrails, who hadn't noticed anything, and even with Alcon bringing up the topic and at least suggesting that it was a possibility, these other pilots remained highly unconvinced. This shows that your allcaps assertion is incorrect.

You are free to paint the world in whatever colors you choose. You seem to prefer "black" and "white", but reality isn't so simple.

posted 04-11-2001 11:48 AM            

Remember how a mole works? Remember the FIGHTING BACKS, where all that was explained? TML is the needed slap, because after a while, you start thinking Topgroan is "really our friend...really."

posted 04-11-2001 07:36 PM            

"Now, if flyboy reads this, I want these points addressed and ANSWERED, or he is PROVING his dishonesty for all to see."

Why yes sir, let me get right on that. When someone as friendly as you is so polite in asking me for information, I just have to say....

NO.

Also Posted by The Military Lies.....

"However, since he refuses to answer the above questions, and has offered us the preposterous notion that he is "unaware of anything unusual" in the skies, I submit that this man is..... a) Not a pilot, or b) A pilot that is helping to cover up this OBVIOUS program."

Hmmmm......another complete lie. Please refer me to the time when I refused to answer your questions, or the above questions asked by anyone else. Once again, you attempt to turn the tables by fabricating things about me. So, I'll answer your questions when you show me that I've refused to answer them any other time than on this post. Simple, right? Go ahead. Show me. I'm waiting.

I've gone through the big debate on Carnicom's site already, pal. Look them up. While you're at it, reference the following post and read Duncan's tale:
http://www.contrailconnection.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.cgi?Action=ShowPost&Board=free&Post=218&Idle=90&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=

Be sure to read it. I've found that you can't be rational with folks like TML, Guided Muscle and NSASucks. When you start making sense, voila! Out comes the "agent" and "liar" accusation again. And where is the proof of this? Nowhere. Dismissed. Swept under the rug. Well, I'm noticing. So, I'll ask NSASucks to answer my questions on the post referencing "Military chemtrails in Croatia : NATO sucks" or in the many other posts that I've caught him lying in. I'll ask you, TML to furnish the proof to your claims that I'm not a pilot as already asked in the posts on this thread. If you won't then you won't get the answers out of me. That's fair. I'll answer every one of your questions if you will answer mine. But, I suspect that you will ignore this once again and instead proclaim "See! I told you so! He won't answer my questions, and there's my proof!" Ha. You really got me.

I'm able to post so much because I've been taking time off the past few weeks now that I'm back from Operation Northern Watch. Speaking of that, I mentioned in January that I was leaving for ONW for a few months. Now, for your clarification, do a post search on me and find ONE post by me between 16 January and 9 March. There are none. Coincidence? I think not. Not that my life is any of your business anyway. Who knows where I was. Maybe I was at "advanced disinfo training" at China Lake.

The ball is in your court, TML. I'm available for more intimate conversation (a date maybe, TML?) at Topgun0069@hotmail.com.

Maverick

posted 04-12-2001 04:45 AM            

I think these posts by you (and Thermit) is such great proof of what I was saying in my last post, that I just want to stop and thank you. You AND Thermit. You guys have done a remarkably excellent job at helping people see without their blinders on. I have a hard time even adding to the wonderful exposure you have offered us about yourself. You have done precisely what I thought you would do, so I consider my attempt to prove my point a complete success.

I don't care what liars like TopSlug thinks about me. All I really care about, is exposing soothsayers and deceivers, to help others see them for what they are. I absolutely DESPISE deceivers. I HATE watching them succeed at sucking in innocent people and filling them full of lies, which I see as no better than slicing their throats.

Won't answer my questions TopGunn? Big surprise... huh. How convenient. The "polite" guy is so offended that he is going to deprive all these good people on this board of the answers that THEY deserve. You are fooling NO ONE chump. You won't answer those questions NOW, and you wouldn't answer them at Cliffs board, when you were REPEATEDLY asked the same questions. You did the EXACT same thing. You acted acted all offended, and then refused to answer. When you were pressed on the issue, you became even more belligerent, and ended up getting yourself kicked out. Cliff knows an obvious liar when he sees one. I have a strong feeling that Thermit does too, but apparently, he doesn't mind keeping around a deceptively "polite" phoney for some reason. Makes a person wonder.......

Thermit, don't ASS-U-ME that you have done any more research than I have, or anybody else for that matter. If you HAVE done more research than I have, I don't see how it would even be possible for you to continue to be snowed by our congenial actor, Mr. Pilot. I am now under the definite impression that you are not snowed, but that it runs MUCH deeper than that. I understand why you got rid of the other debunkers and disinfo clowns. They were really becoming more of a liablity than an asset because of how OBVIOUS they were.... weren't they. Yep, TopGunn is the best hope for continued deception that this board has to offer. For now.... Well, he's not even close to fooling me, or the other astute members of this board.

posted 04-12-2001 09:53 AM            

It appears that TML has some legitimate questions. Would you be willing to answer them if I made a polite request?

Please tell me, how do your theories explain:

1) X's, O's, S's, u-turns, tic-tac-toes, grids, et cetera?

2) City wide fleets of 6, 8, 10, or 12 planes, laying down trails side by side, simultaneously?

3) Sprayplanes that lay down a 30 or 40 mile trail, then turn around and lay down another one in the opposing direction, again and again?

4) Trails that are obviously, and abruptly switched on, or off?

5) Trails that are repeatedly raining down what looks like a white haze, leaving a fine white dust on peoples cars, trucks, vegetables in the garden, et cetera?

6) Trails, that when they have fanned out and left a milky haze covering the sky, cause a chemically induced chembow halo around the sun?

7) Real time satellite photos that regularly contradict the ones being shown to the public on the various networks and the weather channel?

8) Normal air traffic admittedly being rerouted to accommdate an ongoing "military exercise"?

9) Major media and government silence even though they have both been inundated with thousands upon thousands of reports by citizens?

10) Harassment of citizens who try to get to the bottom of this mystery?

11) Trails that are heavy every day for weeks, then suddenly nothing for days under the exact same upper and lower atmosperic conditions..... conditions where the formation of contrails is impossible?

12) Dozens and dozens of trails, day after day, in noncommercial locations, i.e., places where the planes in the sky cannot be accounted for?

I know this will take quite a bit of your time, TopGun, but thanks in advance for your answers.

posted 04-13-2001 02:20 AM            

I have no problem answering the questions. Don't assume that I'm unable to answer them. First off, I'm NOT going to cooperate with someone who DEMANDS that I answer his questions. To add insult to injury, the arrogant individual slams me with both insults and lies about me. You're damn right that I'm not going to answer them. Also, this site is no longer a forum for debate, so I'm not here to do that. I will give an opinion when asked, but I am not going to argue over the legitimacy of the chemtrail issue. Suffice it to say that I'm not convinced based on my considerable experience airborne and my research online.

I appreciate your "pretty please" approach to me, 3T3L1, but I must admit that I'm not jumping at answering your post, either. This is due to your previous post believing TML's claims that I'm an agent. As a scientist, I'll ask you to show me the basis for your conclusions. Surely you would have more than just a "gut feeling" that I'm some kind of fraud. What nobody can tell me is WHY. Why, other than the fact that I am a pilot and have not seen or heard of spraying, am I an agent in your eyes? Is EVERY pilot supposed to know about this "operation?" I can count 40 in my squadon alone who have never heard about it.

I wasn't going to answer these for another reason as well. How come I am the subject of so much disinfo being directed at me? Why do I have to answer questions when, at the same time, TML and NSASucks not only refuse to answer my questions but accuse me of being the liar? I've caught NSASucks more than one time here in a lie, and he has NEVER answered my calls for his proof. He makes very outrageous claims, yet folks seem to blindly accept his stories about full-blown U.S. military bases in China, etc. Upon asking for the proof, he changes the subject and calls me the liar. None of my statements are by any means outrageous. Also, mine are verifiable, and I answer people who question them. If you don't believe this, show me where I am wrong. So, it's only fair that I ask for something in return, which is for them to answer my questions FIRST. Because, after all, I asked them first, and have never had a direct response. Instead, accusations and more insults. See above.

So, now before I get a bunch of posts claiming that I'm everything from Satan himself to a disinfo guy, let me start by saying that everything below is an OPINION, namely MINE. You will not change it by slamming me, as I do not hope to change yours. As said already, I'm here to continue to learn and answer questions on aviation-related subjects. I AM NOT HERE TO DEBATE CHEMTRAILS. Please don't try. I'll debate and discuss FAA/Military flight rules, procedures, aircraft types, etc., heck, anything else.

My opinion is based on over 2,000 hours of flight time in both civilian and military aircraft. My opinion is based on travels all over the world, to include Europe, North and South America, Hawaii, Indonesia, and the Middle East. My opinion is based on my lifelong love of aviation and knowledge since childhood of aircraft and the skies they fly in. I've looked up all my life at the slightest sound or sometimes just for the heck of it. And here is what I believe, like it or not, on April 12, 2001:

QUESTION: 1) X's, O's, S's, u-turns, tic-tac-toes, grids, et cetera:

ANSWER: X's- Intersecting flight paths, such as are commonly seen (but are not limited to) over navigation aids (VOR/DMEs,VORTACs) as aircraft navigate themselves from point to point.

O's- Holding patterns. Or, if in military airspace, hook turns, g-awareness turns, air-to-air setups, instrument practice, or formation practice. I made a VERY prominent "O" on an air-to-air ride one day and it lasted so long I landed, took off again on a second sortie, and found the same "O" downwind of where I had created it some 2-3 hours earlier.

S's- If in military airspace, see above. I don't have an explanation for civilian flying, but I also haven't seen S's before.

U-turns-See above for military airspace. If civilian, could be part of a holding pattern. Also, for a lot of high-altitude approaches to airfields, there are many procedures that require what can look like a "u-turn." In retrospect, there are a few instrument approaches that would resemble an "S" as well.

Tic-tac-toes and Grids- Are the same thing, right? Well, this is what happens when the winds aloft blow the trails a certain direction. As the subsequent aircraft passes over the navigation aid on the ground, it will create a trail parallel to the downwind trail left by the previous aircraft. Over the course of the day, a pattern will begin to emerge and appear as if there is a "grid."

Et cetera-Planes don't just fly straight and level everywhere. Planes don't just fly straight lines. They climb, they dive, and they turn. The weather conditions are just as dynamic. I've been flying and seen 180 degree, 100+ knot wind shifts in less than 1,000 feet of altitude.

QUESTION:2) City wide fleets of 6, 8, 10, or 12 planes, laying down trails side by side, simultaneously?

ANSWER: If you were to say four aircraft simultaneously, I'd be able to answer that immediately. When fighter aircraft travel cross-country, we fly formations that would appear like four aircraft spraying simultaneously. Civilian (and military) aircraft are frequently routed around each other when one is flying a different airspeed. Also, the error in radio navigation equipment increases with altitude, so not all aircraft are going to fly exactly over the same point on the ground. As long as ATC has 2 miles horizontally OR 1,000 feet vertically betwen aircraft, then they are comfortable with the separation between them. So, even civilian aircraft may appear as if they are flying in formation, yet if you were at their altitude it would be easy to tell that they are separate.

I haven't seen 12 aircraft simultaneously flying parallel to one another before. Is this on film somewhere?

QUESTION:3) Sprayplanes that lay down a 30 or 40 mile trail, then turn around and lay down another one in the opposing direction, again and again?

ANSWER: Are you sure that it's the same plane? O.K., if it is, here's a few explanations. First, it may be yet another holding pattern. Doubtful if it is truly flying 30-40 miles, though. If it is in military airspace, refer to my above statement. Beyond-visual-range intercept training is done with 30 or greater miles between aircraft, so this may be what you're seeing. Third, it could be aircraft in a refueling track. There's an AR track (AR310W) that is just south of Albuquerque that runs east-west for over 50 miles. At the ends, the tanker/fighter would turn around and head the opposite direction.

QUESTION:4) Trails that are obviously, and abruptly switched on, or off?

ANSWER: I'm no weather expert, nor will I claim to be. But, I do know what I have seen and experienced. Reference the above statement on wind shifts and realize that the sky is not a fluid, calm place. There are drastic differences in pressure, humidity, and wind all over the place, so I believe that we are seeing aircraft that are flying from regions favorable to contrail production into ones that aren't.

QUESTION:5) Trails that are repeatedly raining down what looks like a white haze, leaving a fine white dust on peoples cars, trucks, vegetables in the garden, et cetera?

ANSWER: You got me on this one. I have no idea. I just have to throw out that the powder would have to be directly attributable to the "chemtrail." I'm no chemist, so I'm not even going to mess with this one. This is one of the many things that I'm learning about here at CC and by reading (posthumously ) things over at Carnicom's.

QUESTION:6) Trails, that when they have fanned out and left a milky haze covering the sky, cause a chemically induced chembow halo around the sun?

ANSWER: Well, I'm not sure if it is chemicaly induced or if it is a "chembow." But, I have seen what you describe. I've also seen the "moonbow" that is also periodically discussed here. I've heard posts about them being high upper-level moisture, but I don't know. I'll stop right here and say that I'm sure that there's a lot of garbage floating around in our upper atmosphere caused by humans. I'm not going to say that it's caused by a spraying campaign just yet, but I will not disagree with the assertion that there is something foreign polluting our skies.

QUESTION:7) Real time satellite photos that regularly contradict the ones being shown to the public on the various networks and the weather channel?

ANSWER: I haven't seen this. I'd make sure that they images from the same satellite and the same type of image (IR, Visible, Radar, etc.) before claiming that Kristi Abernathy on the Weather Channel is involved in the conspiracy.

QUESTION:8) Normal air traffic admittedly being rerouted to accommdate an ongoing "military exercise"?

ANSWER: This happens all of the time. I mean, every day. When we fly out to a MOA, Albuquerque Center will activate the airspace and route traffic around it. I hear "Southwest 22, fly heading 240, vectors for military airspace" all of the time. Also, when a refueling track is being used, civilian traffic is usually vectored out of the way. And finally, tankers and fighters on cross-country flights headed overseas are on whats called "ALTREVS" (Altitude Reservations.) These flights are given altitude blocks for the entire duration of the flight. All other aircraft are required to be vectored away from these flights. After all, the aircraft on the ALTREV are probably on a much longer flight (9+ hours) and your average fighter pilot can't exactly get up and walk to the bathroom inside of a cramped, single-seat cockpit. So, these flights are given priority over most other aircraft due in part to the fatigue placed on the pilots in the flight. On my way back from Operation Northern Watch last month, we flew in to the U.S. over the coast of Maine and I heard several civilian aircraft being vectored out of our way.

QUESTION:9) Major media and government silence even though they have both been inundated with thousands upon thousands of reports by citizens?

ANSWER: I'm not the major media, and I'm not authorized to represent the government in making official statements. That is usually left to the Public Affairs folks. That's one reason why you don't see my name posted here, or a picture of me. Going on record on controversial issues is, unfortunately, a right that I gave up when I signed up. Things like campaigning for a politician, participating in a protest, etc. are not allowed if I represent myself as a member of the military by doing so. I can protest an campaign all I want, but when "USAF Officer" and "Pilot" are associated with me, then it becomes inappropriate. This all goes away when I leave the service (Colin Powell, Norman Schwarzkopf, etc.)

QUESTION:10) Harassment of citizens who try to get to the bottom of this mystery?

ANSWER: Once again, I am not personally aware of harassment. I understand that our government is capable of doing some pretty terrible things. I have never been asked to fly over someone's house or to harass someone. There may be other agencies that are less well-intentioned, but I am not seeing anyone being harassed by the organization (USAF) that I work for. I won't put it past our government to bug houses and follow people around. I believe in UFOs and the subsequent government cover-up, and I've heard some pretty harrowing stories about threats made to keep people quiet.

QUESTION:11) Trails that are heavy every day for weeks, then suddenly nothing for days under the exact same upper and lower atmosperic conditions..... conditions where the formation of contrails is impossible?

ANSWER: How can you be sure that the conditions are exactly the same? Like I said, the air that the main info gathering tool (the weather balloon) flies through can be completely different that the air just a few hundred feet away from it. The unpredictability of our atmosphere is the main reason why you can't trust a weather forecast. Sure, most of the time the weather turns out the same as the forecast, but not always....

QUESTION:12) Dozens and dozens of trails, day after day, in noncommercial locations, i.e., places where the planes in the sky cannot be accounted for?

ANSWER: What are "noncommercial" locations? Virtually every cubic foot of airspace over our country is spoken for. If the trails appear over an unpopulated area, I would suspect that the culprit is military aircraft since our MOAs are typically away from the major population areas (noise and separation from civilian flight routes.) I'd need to know what is meant by "noncommercial" locations. As far as I can tell, there is not too many spots above our country that aircraft aren't flying over regularly.

-------------------------------------------

Well, there's my honest opinion, take it or leave it. I'll be avalable for debate over at my site ( http://pub31.ezboard.com/bcontrailsandchemtrails22884 ) or via e-mail ( topgun0069@hotmail.com ) Otherwise, I'm going to continue to respect Thermit's rules for this board and continue to learn here. So, don't expect any replies to any chemtrail contentions related to my post. Like I said, use the other routes if you want to debate.

I'm going to be gone for the holiday. Happy Easter to everyone!

Maverick

posted 04-13-2001 08:01 AM            

Right now, I'm extending a guarded apology. I wasn't an active conspiracy wacko when you were posting on Carnicom's board, and apparently whatever you did to get kicked off that board has evaporated into the ether. When I mentioned you slightly favorably over at Carnicom's, I got an immediate negative response from Moose or Guided Muscle, I forget which, and hours later his post was completely gone.

Until now I have grouped you together, perhaps unfairly, with Dirk Digler and Chickie Deb. From the quality of his posts, I must assume Mr. Digler is either an agent or a poser. Ms. Deb has recently and inexplicably been all over the Web using a reference to this board and to Flight Explorer to back up her claims that chemtrails do not exist. If she were intellectually honest, she would be sure to point out that this site also contains Thermit's study using Flight Explorer. She does not.

Because of the way you answered my questions, I must agree that you may not be a disinformation agent after all. I find it hard to believe that you are here simply out of curiousity and a desire to share your aviation knowledge, but I shall put that possibility back into my set of hypotheses.