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  Chemtrail Central Forum
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  Red Blood Cells in Chemtrails?

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Topic:   Red Blood Cells in Chemtrails?

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 08:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Clifford Carnicom has just posted some more pictures of samples he has collected by electrostatic precipitation. These were taken at 5000x magnification and clearly show objects which have the biconcave morphology characteristic of red blood cells (RBCs). He says the diameter of these objects is 4 to 7 microns.

I won't reproduce Clifford's statements here, but you can read them for yourself and see three more high-magnification pictures at this URL:
http://www.carnicom.com/bio7.htm

I continue to find it strange that Clifford is willing to devote time (and presumably money) to getting bigger and better pictures of his electrostatically collected material, but he refuses to test his samples for hemoglobin. He also refuses to have tests performed which would indicate the species of origin of these putative red blood cells.

In light of that, and of the recent unusual happenings on Clifford's board, I pose this question to the members of this board:

Is there any reason TPTB might want us to believe there are red blood cells being sprayed on us?

[Edited 3 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 05-05-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These comments were made on Clifford Carnicom's previous pictures of putative red blood cells collected from chemtrails. They can be found at Margareta-Erminia Cassani's web site: http://www.moonbowmedia.com/ When you enter the site, click on 03/13 Chemtrails and Red Blood Cells: Medical Specialists Say NO Scroll halfway down the page and you will see statements made by medical specialists when Ms. Cassani asked their opinion of Clifford Carnicom's original set of pictures.
quote:

Dr. Joel Bentz, University of Utah, Pathology, ARUP Labs: "It is common in cytology to encounter material in clinical samples that mimic biologic material, but they are not. I would be extremely cautious to render any definitive opinion about these samples containing human-biological material based on morphologic examination. You would do better at verification using biochemical analysis. For instance, you could analyze for the presence of hemoglobin in these samples."

quote:

Dr. Edward Uthman, Diplomate American Board of Pathology, Houston/Richmond, Texas: "I don't know what the structures shown are, but they are definitely not dried blood cells. After being spewed into the air and collected on a charged surface, they would be no longer recognizable as blood cells by routine microscopy. If he were really interested in determining what they are, he would have to employ some sort of sophisticated analytical chemical tool to look for hemoglobin or other specific chemical marker. Jus[t] sticking it under the microscope doesn't cut it"

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 12:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For example, here is a picture of some Cladosporium spores which I found as I surfed around the Internet.

The site they are from http://author.emedicine.com/PED/topic1471.htm says they are 4-20 microns in size, which overlaps the range of sizes Clifford Carnicom reports.

Another site http://www.pollenplus.com/spores/db/cladosporium.html says "Found world wide. One of the most common fungal spores on air samples."

Please note that I'm not identifying Clifford's samples as Cladosporium. I'm just saying that a visual identification of material found in an air sample is not enough.

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-05-2001 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know what a hemoglobin test would cost and how much of a sample one would need to do it right? Frankly, I find his research at least in the right direction - ya know - pull the material out of those filters and start putting it under the scopes, having it tested, sharing the results. Maybe one or more of us just need to help him out OR at least pick up where he left off.

I am trying to see why TPTS would want us to know about bios, when they've done nothing but try and prevent our knowing about them. It's the real smoking gun here, I believe.

If we can prove out these thesis, regarding our "what are they for" ideas, then I am sure our numbers of CT aware and CT pissed off people would grow exponentially.

Nothing surprises - I've seen plenty of thesis/anti-thesis modality type deals run through the public by various levels of intelligence to where....blah.

The blood cells are the key - I know it. What they are loaded with, how they are binded to those little nasty filaments that glow under black lights...are the thing of the day. Blood, from what I have read recently, is one of those amazing little aspects of life that just seem to defy logic in many cases, can be "freeze dried" and reconstituted for long term storage, holds electrical energy like a battery, carries oxygen, has essential elements in it, its amazingly complex.

BTW, the cells you posted in your first set of pictures from Cliff's site, 3T3, look exactly like human blood cells - the same as in the books they have at the local library here in town. The second set, though similar (as you've pointed out) do not really resemble blood cells upon close inspection - good work!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by nsasucks on 05-05-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, but. Neither you nor I nor Clifford is a hematologist. One of the doctors I cited above suggests that he may have simply collected pollen samples which look like blood to our untrained eyes. And Clifford is asking people to collect their own samples and examine them. He isn't offering his own samples for analysis.

Another interesting item: why didn't he draw a bit of his own blood, subject it to the same treatment he used on the samples and take pictures of it? A good scientist is always careful to provide controls.

There may be another level of complexity that we need to consider in Clifford's work. I'm not saying he's making this up, but in light of things we've learned recently, we should take all possibilities into account.

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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist


East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-05-2001 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FLKook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the doctors I cited above suggests that he may have simply collected pollen samples which look like blood to our untrained eyes. Did his trained eyes take a look? If so what did he think?

(oops sorry 3T3, I went back and re-read his quote)

I often wondered why more results on those samples wasn't out there yet. He's had them a while. We don't get any of that cob webby stuff I've heard about. Did have the strange goo on my car a couple of times. How else or what else could you collect? Is testing expensive? Has anybody thought about getting some college science classes involved? Maybe they could do some preliminary tests cost effectively.

I'm no scientist and it would show in any effort I put forth but students sometimes have the time and inclination. Maybe a college near the medical learning facilities like Shands in Gainseville or Johns Hopkins in MD. Anyone in these areas? I'd be happy to show someone how to tap in to the wonderful slave trade called "internships"



[Edited 1 times, lastly by FLKook on 05-05-2001]

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-05-2001 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is what caught my eye...

"How many mentally and physically fragile people out there will read Mr. Carnicom's proclamations of "proof" that chemtrails are a biological testing program and perhaps commit suicide or otherwise harm themselves or others in some kind of public gun attack, or bombing, or the like?"


There have been no such attacks or any hysteria similar to what is being described above. If such an unfortunate incident occurs, responsiblity will rest solely at the feet of our elected officials who continue to ignore our quite understandable pleas for public disclosure.

It is this deception and stonewalling that forces private citizens to initiate there own investigations within their own limited means.

Now, if the EPA were inclined to spend as much time fulfilling their mandate as they do erasing their hard drives, perhaps this wouldn't be neccessary. Such is not the case.

I think Clifford should continue to gather and examine evidence to the best of his ability. If anyone is concerned about his methodology, perhaps they can provide the funds and clearances neccessary for a direct sample to be taken and for a more professional ananlysis to be undertaken.

At the same time, we must be extremely cautious when considering the motivations for people presenting evidence.

The US military has gone to great lengths in the past to protect it's secrets and will continue to do so.

No one is above suspiscion. If history teaches us anything, it tells us that infilitration will occur, and probably at the highest levels.

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Aura
Senior Member

Southern Indiana
95 posts, May 2001

posted 05-05-2001 03:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a thought on why the TPTS would like for us to believe the chemtrails contain biologicals. This came to me after the "Asian Dust Storm" BS.

Perhaps they see a way to use this in support of the "Big War" that the NWO has to enact for their total control. If they can convince enough people that China, or any other country for that matter, is engaging in biological warfare against the US..England..any allied countries they can create enough civil upset to get the war started.

Just a thought! :0


------------------
AURA Make yours beautiful!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Aura on 05-05-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please excuse a little free association. I'll be done in a minute.

Chem11 suggested that if people believed there were red blood cells in chemtrails, it might provoke them to violence. As Chem11 also pointed out, this hasn't happened. So is there some other possible explanation for making up a story about the presence of red blood cells in chemtrails?

FLKook suggested that we con some college students into analyzing samples. I wouldn't trust medical students, let alone college students, to do slightly reliable lab analyses. I've seen too many of them in action. The other problem is, how can we be sure that we are collecting the same types of samples Clifford has collected? I don't have the spare change available to buy an electrostatic precipitator, a 5000 power light microscope, and a 35mm SLR camera to attach to it to take pictures.

I guess we could ask Clifford for some of his samples. However, when Margarita Erminia-Cassani and I separately tried to contact him with various questions regarding these samples, he never, ever responded to either one of us. (By contrast, when I had posting problems on his board, Clifford got right back to me about it.) That's one of the reasons I started this thread. At the time a nonresponse to my questions seemed out of character for Clifford. Now I'm not so sure.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-05-2001 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just saw Aura's post. Yes, stirring up the biological warfare scenario makes sense. The media is telling us that "foreigners" might contaminate our country with foot and mouth disease or with mad cow disease. What if "foreigners" started dumping blood cells on us in mass quantities?

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-05-2001 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that this evidence would provoke people to violence, I was quoting from the article...

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-05-2001 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FOR CLIFFORD CARNICOM:

Many intelligent questions have been raised here by people seeking to understand and to help you in your research that benefits us all. This would be a good time to jump in on this thread and settle some concerns, speak your mind, and help us, help you.

We support your efforts. We seek answers. You seem to have some and a dialogue here would be simply outstanding.

Please step up.

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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist


East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-06-2001 04:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FLKook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FLKook suggested that we con some college students into analyzing samples.

Because I made reference to internships as slave trade? Lighten up!

I never suggested that we con anybody. That is insulting. I was legitimately brainstorming on some cost effective ways to have analysis done.

For the record, It is amazing at the conscientious work that our interns do. They receive school credit and a reference on their resumes and have done some outstanding work.

Shoot down the idea if you want but, read my post carefully there was no surreptitious intent, I'm not mean spirited enough to con anybody.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-06-2001 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought I was responding in jest, FLKook. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist


East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-06-2001 11:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FLKook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No worries 3T3; I was a little on hypersensitive side when I read your post. It was only about 5:30AM, my dog had woke me around 5 to let him out and as usual I couldn't help but take a glance up. They were well into a total grid, by daylight it was soup time.

A good sermon at church and fresh does of Jesus at 10AM put me right. Now if we could only get a fresh does of air.

For better or worse, personalities aside (and boy does this board have some!) We are all in this together.

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