posted 06-26-2001 11:02 AM            

I have found it of great value already.

posted 06-27-2001 11:31 AM            

Thanks for the information. I reviewed the specification sheet you linked to and have to admit I don't understand much of it.

The first and second pages list "specification points", and specifies a "minimum' and "maximum" reading for many different things: not just additives, but characteristics such as smoke point and thermal stability. The "minimum" and "maximum" numbers can't be percentages, they look like some sort of calibrated readouts on a testing device. But I don't know what they signify.

The third and fourth pages discusses techniques and conditions used to determine these numbers. I guess that makes sense, but doesn't tell anything about the makeup of the fuel.

Page 5 gets more into the nitty-gritty of composition, but deals primarily with what the distiller is required to provide to various customers and JP-8 blends (e.g., NATO versus non-NATO, F-34 versus F-35). It also talks about antioxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, Icing inhibitors, etc., but doesn't tell you what they are. Also, it tells what formulations are "approved", but doesn't specify whether or not they're added or at what percentages. My guess is that you'd find that in table 1 of MIL-DTL-8133E (which I haven't seen - yet).

Paragraph 3.3.7 threw me for a loop, but I think I understand it. We shouldn't assume that the additives shouldn't be premixed with the fuel immediately prior to combustion, but rather, they shouldn't be mixed with each other; i.e., they should be added individually to the fuel during the blending stage. That makes sense, because the only engines with which I'm really familiar, the GE 700/701 and the RTM version of the same, don't have any means for injecting any additives into the combustion in the aircraft. Also, the aircraft itself (in this case the AH64A/D) doesn't have any auxiliary tanks for additives (like you'd see on an oil-injection 2-stroke gasoline engine)

The rest of that article discusses various methods for determining things like "Heater Tube Deposit Rating" or "Filtration Time and Particulate Matter of J8 Grade". The latter is self explanatory, of course; and I assume that the former deals with high-temperature depositions of very small particulates or solutes (but that's just a guess).

I'm not sure what I'd need to see to get a handle on what's actually in the JP-8 mixture - maybe if we had a copy of MIL-DTL-8133E, we could find that out. Or, maybe I just don't know enough about distilling and fuel systems/formulations to figure out what information is worth looking at.

You mention that the document has been of great value to you already. If you would, could you pass on a summary of your findings? You've been on this longer than anyone here (at least a lot longer than me), and I'd really appreciate your inputs.

Thanks for your detective work!

Regards,

posted 06-27-2001 10:16 PM            

I have contacted the group that did a lot of the R & D on the +100 additive and sent a email to the Group Leader on the university staff in charge of the group but he has not responded. That is the short cut we need.

These guys did gas chromatagraph readings of the combustion trials so they have the specific thermal breakdown components at various tempretures and conditions of combustion.

This is a copy of the email I sent to him if you would like to follow up and see if maybe you can get some answers to these specific questions.

____________________

To: Dr. Dilip R. Ballal,
Group Leader,
Aerospace Mechanics Division
Fuels and Combustion Group

From: Michael McDonnough
Chief of Operations
Chemtrails Research Center http://www.chemtrails.org

Dr. Ballal,
After reviewing your work you seem to be the best qualified person to answer
this question about the JP-8 +100 fuel additive introduced in 1998.

Question: "Does the JP-8+100 fuel additive tend to increase the presence of
Hygroscopic Cloud Condensation Nuclei, such as Sulfur Oxides, or Amides in
the contrails of aircraft using this additive?"

The reason I ask this is that myself and many of my readers have noticed
that condensation trails from military aircraft tend to be more persistent
in nature after the introduction of this additive in 1998.

Question: "Based on the data from your gas chromatograph tests what exactly
are the concentrations of these possibly hygroscopic elements in the exhaust
from a typical engine running with this +100 additive compared to engines
using regular JP-8 fuel?"

Thanks for your time in considering my questions. Please respond as your
schedule permits Sir.

Sincerely,
Michael McDonnough

_________________________

Anyone wishing to add to these questions or talk to the good Dr. and ask other important questions please let me know his response if any. I would like a quote if possible but I can find other avenues to get the information if we can get no response.

This would be the easiest way since they did the R & D for the military in the first place.

posted 06-27-2001 11:23 PM            

This is an example.

Antioxidant formulations: The following antioxidant formulations are approved.

a. 2, 6-di-tert-butyl-4-methylphenol

b. 6-tert-butly-2, 4-dimethylphenol

c. 2, 6-di-tert-butylphenol

d. 75% minimum: 2, 6-di-tert-butylphenol
25% maximum: tert-butyl phenols and tri-tert-butylephenols

This is the type of information I found of use.

Other information I found of interest is that one of the approved stability improver additives is SPEC AID 8Q462

Qualification Reference: AFRL/PRSF Ltr, 9 Dec 97

Manufacturer: BetzDearborn 9669 Grogan Mill Road PO Box 4300 The Woodlands, TX 77387

The reason this is of interest is the search terms in the text and the places and names of manufacturers is disclosed.

This gives us places to get information from.