posted 05-14-2002 10:46 PM            

.....Does anyone else notice the sun is setting in the northwest tonight?.....

Yes. I noticed that.

posted 05-14-2002 11:02 PM            

they got so many new ones.

posted 05-15-2002 07:07 AM            

I know all about the following. I have been watching it relative to the view from my windows for a total of 14 years now:

.....The sun will continue to set further and further North of west until June 21 (the Summer Solstice) at which point it will begin to move south again. It will pass through the same point as it was in March (the Vernal Equinox) on September 23 (the Autumnal Equinox) and will continue to set further and further SOUTH of west until December 21, the Winter Solstice) and then the whole thing will start over.....

What I am saying is that, in my observation, the position of the setting sun, relative to the many and stationary buildings directly in my field of vision, appears to have made a discernible shift to the northwest - or, to be more specific, has made a somewhat more rapid transition than usual from southwest to northwest over the past three months in particular.

Assuming that the buildings themselves have not moved since last year at this time, I have to wonder if there has been some change in the position of the earth relative to the sun.

Here is an example of my view:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/cgi-bin/db-search.cgi?template=img-detail&dbname=img&key2=397&action=searchdbdisplay

As you can see, the buildings would serve as a fairly reliable marker for gauging the position of non-stationary objects in the same frame of reference - particularly those objects which are routinely observed on a daily basis.

As mentioned, I am starting to compare photographs from last year at this time to what I am currently directly observing.

If I find my current perception regarding the position of the setting sun to be in error, I will say so on this thread when I am done making the necessary serial comparisons.

posted 05-15-2002 07:52 AM            

The ecliptic and celestial equator intersect at two points: the vernal (spring) equinox and autumnal (fall) equinox. The Sun crosses the celestial equator moving northward at the vernal equinox around March 21 and crosses the celestial equator moving southward at the autumnal equinox around September 22. When the Sun is on the celestial equator at the equinoxes, everybody on the Earth experiences 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night for those two days (hence, the name ``equinox'' for ``equal night''). The day of the vernal equinox marks the beginning of the three-month season of spring on our calendar and the day of the autumn equinox marks the beginning of the season of autumn (fall) on our calendar. On those two days of the year, the Sun will rise in the exact east direction, follow an arc right along the celestial equator and set in the exact west direction.

When the Sun is above the celestial equator during the seasons of spring and summer, you will have more than 12 hours of daylight. The Sun will rise in the northeast, follow a long, high arc north of the celestial equator, and set in the northwest. Where exactly it rises or sets and how long the Sun is above the horizon depends on the day of the year and the latitude of the observer. When the Sun is below the celestial equator during the seasons of autumn and winter, you will have less than 12 hours of daylight. The Sun will rise in the southeast, follow a short, low arc south of the celestial equator, and set in the southwest. The exact path it follows depends on the date and the observer's latitude. Make sure you understand this. No matter where you are on the Earth, you will see 1/2 of the celestial equator's arc. Since the sky appears to rotate around you in 24 hours, anything on the celestial equator takes 12 hours to go from exact east to exact west. Every celestial object's diurnal (daily) motion is parallel to the celestial equator. So for northern observers, anything south of the celestial equator takes less than 12 hours between rise and set, because most of its rotation arc around you is hidden below the horizon. Anything north of the celestial equator takes more than 12 hours between rising and setting because most of its rotation arc is above the horizon. For observers in the southern hemisphere, the situation is reversed. However, remember, that everybody anywhere on the Earth sees 1/2 of the celestial equator so at the equinox, when the Sun is on the equator, you see 1/2 of its rotation arc around you, and therefore you have 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of nightime everyplace on the Earth. The geographic poles and equator are special cases. At the geographic poles the celestial equator is right along the horizon and the full circle of the celestial equator is visible. Since a celestial object's diurnal path is parallel to the celestial equator, stars do not rise or set at the geographic poles. On the equinoxes the Sun moves along the horizon. At the North Pole the Sun ``rises'' on March 21st and ``sets'' on September 22. The situation is reversed for the South Pole. On the equator observers see one half of every object's full 24-hour path around them, so the Sun and every other star is above the horizon for exactly 12 hours for every day of the year.

http://www.astronomynotes.com/nakedeye/s5.htm

posted 05-15-2002 07:04 PM            

I’ll state this straight out: It ain’t possible folks!

This is not even an astronomy question, but one of simple, classical physics. If you may remember from your high school science classes, Sir Isaac Newton postulated a number of laws about mass and motion.

1) An object at rest will stay at rest unless acted on by an outside force.
2) An object in motion will stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force.
3) For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction.

The most important of these for our discussion is Number 2. One application of this law is the concept of angular momentum. Angular momentum is the term used to describe a rotating object (in this case the Earth).

angular momentum = mass * velocity * distance

In addition, there is an important law called: Conservation of Angular Momentum. In the absence of an external force, the total amount of angular momentum does not change with time no matter how objects interact with one another.

This is classically illustrated by a figure skater doing a spin, She starts her spin slowly but with her arms and one leg extended out as far as she can. She then pulls in her arms and leg, thus reducing the distance in the above equation. Since her mass stays the same, the velocity of her spin must increase in order to maintain the same angular momentum.

I won’t get into a detailed discussion of the concept of precession, you can find some interesting info here:
http://www.infoline.ru/g23/5495/Physics/English/gyro_txt.htm

Or, simply enter Angular momentum gyroscope into Google and see what you come up with.

The wobble in the rotation of the earth is called the Chandler Wobble.

According to the following NASA web page (http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/a11657.html )

The cause of this wobble is believed to reside in the natural resonances in the body of the spinning earth due to the detailed distribution of mass in its surface, interior, oceans and atmosphere. This system has a '14-month' harmonic which can be excited through a complex pattern of forcings by the moon, sun and sudden crustal rearrangements (earthquakes). There are many distinct periodic excitations by the sun and moon and their changing distances and tidal forcings, and these result in distinct monthly, yearly and multi-year periodicities in the polar wander. The Chandler Wobble may be a natural harmonic resonance that is also stimulated by these other constant lunar-solar forcings at the natural resonance frequency of the solid earth.

What is important to remember, is that the wobble itself has a component of angular momentum. So basically, In order for there to be any change in the Earth’s axis of rotation there would have to be an external force (Torque) applied to the wobble’s rotation in order to change it. The amount of force required would be astronomical (pun). I haven’t heard of any "dark stars" passing by us lately. The mass of the Earth is the same, The speed of rotation is the same, and the diameter of the Earth is the same. Based on the principle of Conservation of Angular Momentum, it would be impossible to change one without a change in another. I hope this helps. If anyone can help or correct any errors in my explanation, I would appreciate it.

Mark

posted 05-15-2002 08:40 PM            

Let me rephrase that:

posted 05-15-2002 10:20 PM            

The rest of us peeons don't have reputable observations, unless we are being paid by the government?..or paid off is more like it.

posted 05-15-2002 10:22 PM            

I find astronomy fascinating also, unfortunately I don't have the time to pursue it as a serious hobby. I don't know much about Chandler's wobble, so if you find anything, please pass it along, I would be glad to see it.

posted 05-15-2002 10:40 PM            

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/planet991007.html

and I assume by dark star you meant black hole ? moving at near right angles to the solar system ?

posted 05-15-2002 11:14 PM            

"from an orbit 3 trillion miles away"

A tenth planet 3 trillion miles away might be able to preturb the orbits of comets, but would likely have no measurable effect on the Earth.

A black hole huh? well I am not going to lose any sleep woring about that possibility. If its there, we can't do anything about it, if not who cares?

An asteroid could hit the Earth and we all could go the way of the dinosuars. We will eventually anyway, so who cares?

posted 05-15-2002 11:25 PM            

no need to get testy bonehead...you said :

Hey, I'm always open to new ideas and discoveries. If it turns out that "Planet X" is real and the discovery is verified and peer reviewed, then great.

and I gave you a link to a possible planet x...you should rejoice...Ja rastafari...

posted 05-16-2002 12:15 AM            

quote:

---

The sun is setting where it is suposed to be setting.

---

Such a cut and dried statement Bonehead.
Are we to believe that you are going to be the supplier of the reputable information that there is nothing unusual about the many new actions the sun is taking these days? You know for a fact that the sun is setting where it should be setting?

Hey Duncan,,, Have you used your program with the latitude information I gave you yet? You seem strangely quiet this evening.

posted 05-16-2002 04:49 PM            

“By itself, science — defined by human beings — can only tell us what should be. Deal with it......”