posted 05-31-2002 10:07 PM            

http://www.physics.gmu.edu/classinfo/astr103/CourseNotes/Text/Lec04/Lec04_p t2_txt_solarActivity.htm

This is pretty interesting a graph of solar output (dashed line) and land temperature (solid line) over time:

This image came from this site (a must read):
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/sun_weather_010828-1.html

But what is really interesting is the following:

Couple this with the fact that the solar max has flared up again:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/solar_max_020123.htm

And maybe the sun does seem brighter, while at the same time it appears to be cloudier that usual.

Here is a whole slew of articles about the sun:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/headlines-12.html

posted 06-01-2002 05:12 PM            

.....I think we have more than a little problem with the ozone layer, not only parts of the Northern hemisphere, but in the south as well.....
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What I meant to emphasize by specifically referencing *parts of the northern hemisphere* was that the problem with ozone thinning over THESE areas is relatively new compared to the southern hemisphere situation. And it is not getting any better at the moment, from what I am reading and hearing.

Just so you know, this is the kind of thing I have been looking at intensively for the past two years, in addition to maintaining consistent, DIRECT OBSERVATION of a variety of conditions over - and in - my own and other regions:
http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailsstratosphericandtroposphericozoneresearch
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Would you care to address the matter of certain problematical photochemical interactions between marine and atmospheric pollutants at the surface as they are currently exacerbated by the intensity of an apparently unexpectedly extended cycle of heightened solar activity?

posted 06-01-2002 05:14 PM            

Thank you for the material. I will take a look at it over the next few days.

posted 06-01-2002 06:11 PM            

Maybe it just my imagination, but look at the map, now immagine where the Mississippi, Missouri, and Ohio rivers are on the map. Note how these areas appear to be "cooler" than the surounding areas. Note also how the areas near the great lakes, and the west coast of Florida and California have negative corelations.

I wonder if there is any significance to this.

posted 06-02-2002 04:58 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Molliani:
Duncan
It's possible that women are more sensitive to climatic changes.

I agree with Deborah - the sun has a greater intensity than it has in the past. Maybe it's being magnified thru the particle matter present in the atmosphere. That's what it feels like to me.
Major pharmaceutical companies may agree considering the amount of sun screen products you'll find on your
store shelves.
Did you wear sun screen while growing up in Micronesia?
Maybe we should find out why they're so
necessary today.

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I disagree. The sun is not getting hotter. I believe it is actually our atmosphere that is deteriorating , not the sun getting stronger. The number of sunscreens on the shelf in no way directly indicates or substantiates that the sun is getting stronger specifically. This is a theoretical conclusion, and one without the benefit of science.

Duncan is right about the ozone layer, but there is more then that. Not only has the ozone layer thinned, so has the ionisphere, respectively. HAARP/HIPAS are government programs run by the cover of universities. These "phase arrays" of Tesla coils are used to heat up the earth's ionisphere. The scientists knew, upon embarking upon these projects, that the ultimate outcome could not be preconceived. Unfortunately, HAARP/HIPAS directly alters the electomagnetic equilibrium of the EARTH, and therefore our universe as well.

If any significant factors are creating more sunspots or solar flares, this would be the cause (HAARP/HIPAS). I can tell you with 100% certainty that haarp has had a negative effect on our upper atmosphere, especially the ozone layer and ionisphere. The quest for ultimate power manifested the birth of complete ignorance. The irony is, the scientist and government now yield great powers with their projects, but have started an ecological cycle that will ultimatly be our own demise.

The government won't admit any of this, but I know it's true. I have not a doubt. Do you think the midwest floods in 93, or the recent downpours in texas were "Natural"? Allow me to define El Nino for you:

El Nino: A term used to propogate and deter realization of the effect government projects will have on our atmosphere and weather.

posted 06-02-2002 07:22 AM            

.....I'm not sure what you mean by "direct observation". If you mean direct observation with calibrated tools, measurements and logs and detailed data reduction, that's one thing. If you mean being out in the sunlight and remembering it as being warmer than it was last year, then that's meaningless. You simply do not (nor do I, nor does anyone else) have the kind of memory and ability to be able to accurately determine temperature differences a year apart. What that stuff is, is "anecdotal evidence". That does not mean anything to scientists - ANY scientists.....
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I *mean* a lot more than "being out in the sunlight and remembering it as being warmer than last year..." I *mean* direct, continuous, conscious observation of the many and varied changes in the atmospheric conditions over my region.
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Mr. Kunz wrote:

.....Now I don't want to come down on you for copying stories, there's some good information there.....
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It's very interesting to me that, out of all the information in that 22-month-old thread, you chose to comment, and very superficially, on "trout, a drought and a satellite."

I don't just **copy** this stuff, Mr. Kunz. I actually study it. I keep myself continuously updated on selected and very specific issues - and I follow closely the work of those [*scientists*] whose resources are far superior to mine where ability to investigate these very specific issues is concerned.

You have just lost me, sir.

Have you ever seen the film "Sling Blade", written and directed by Billy Bob Thornton [who also plays the lead role]?

If so, you will recall that, in the last two minutes of this film, Karl, played by Mr. Thornton, finally addresses an extremely obnoxious person by saying the following:

"I ain't listenin' to you no more."

You have to actually hear this to get the full effect - as anyone who saw this film will immediately understand.

posted 06-02-2002 07:37 AM            

.....I don't recall making any reference of any kind to the sun itself's "heating up.".....
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I had a VERY GOOD REASON for emphasizing that particular point.
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On June 2, Alpha-Theta wrote:

.....The sun is not getting hotter. I believe it is actually our atmosphere that is deteriorating, not the sun getting stronger.....
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**EXACTLY**

Our atmosphere IS deteriorating.

It is not that the sun itself is "getting hotter/stronger", etc.

Our atmosphere is losing its ability to protect us from the negative health effects of incoming solar radiation.

More later. Pressed for time right now.

posted 06-02-2002 07:39 AM            

.....El Nino: A term used to propogate and deter realization of the effect government projects will have on our atmosphere and weather.....
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YES. YES. YES.

posted 06-02-2002 03:08 PM            

Your post of June 2, 01:42pm is noted.
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I'm sorry you seem to feel I've been wasting my time for the last three years. But it's MY time - not yours - and I have, in fact, acquired quite an education on a number of very interesting matters.
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This is a process ongoing - and it is not over yet, by any means. What I decide to post is only a fraction of what I have in my files. I don't claim to Know It All - far from it. I don't know a tenth of what I would like to, believe me.
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But I am very good at recognizing - and following - emerging patterns. And I do see a few, most definitely, thanks to ongoing *subjective observation* - and to the dedicated work of those trained scientists whose positions and material resources afford them the opportunity to engage in the objective, rigorous and reproducible investigation processes necessary to get the types of information I am looking for.
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And, guess what - I am also very good by now at understanding most of what these people are looking at/talking about and why they consider certain patterns so important at this time. I post THEIR work because I think it's GOOD - and because it appears increasingly relevant to the issue(s) at hand.
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And as for "skipping all over the place" - well, this is a non-linear situation we have before us - and The Big Picture is not going to be apprehended by staying on one path and going from A to B to C. This situation REQUIRES a non-linear approach - as any of those directly involved in the formal research will tell you.
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Finally - I actually ENJOY what I am doing. I'm not trying to *convince* anybody of anything. I am just sharing a particular process of inquiry for general consideration. Some people are interested - some aren't. Sounds pretty normal to me.
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So - if you want to reduce my participation here to a pile of rubble and cast ever-so-subtle aspersions on my credibility in the process, go ahead. If you want to dismiss *subjective observation* as being of no significant value, fine. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
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I will continue just as I have been until I alone decide when I am finished.

posted 06-03-2002 04:37 AM            

This will be my last communication with you.

You said:

.....But I consider 'participation' and 'sharing' to be a little more pro-active.....
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I used to do quite a bit of "explaining" in conjunction with the posting of reference material on the boards. I don't do this anymore, partly because I honestly do not have the time - and partly because I just got tired of being continually pigeonholed with any number of labels from "Green" to "Watermelon" to "Tree-Hugger" to "Filthy Liberal" to "Satan's Minion" to, god help me, "Communist". There is a limit to what ANYONE can tolerate in this regard - and I decided quite awhile ago what mine was.

So now I simply post the material - AFTER I have completely read it, marked it up, and cross-referenced it with related material in order to confirm its relevance, validity - and continuity - to my satisfaction. This material is freely available in the **Public Domain** - and I have tried to organize it as best I could at the Top Level of Clifford's site. It is there for anyone who is interested. This has become my primary contribution to the Message Board venue - and I am about done with it, frankly.

You said:

.....Yet I have not seen you share either the names of those scientists or some of that "reproducible" evidence that any of us - skeptic and believer alike - could "reproduce".....
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Read the material. It is the work-in-progress of the science community in a wide range of disciplines relevant to the issues at hand. The primary areas of focus, in general, are stratospheric ozone depletion, tropospheric aerosols and other pollutants, pollution-driven climate change, including ozone depletion, and their impact on human health, and the impact of aviation emissions on our atmosphere. Also included are two extensive logs of relevant news articles, which I stopped maintaining a few months ago, and some relevant personal photographic documentation of conditions over my area.

By the way, a great deal of valuable reference material and relevant commentary has been provided by many, many others involved in trying to get to the bottom of the issue-at-hand. At some point, if one is actually FOLLOWING this material, a great many connections begin to fall into place. Hundreds of people don't generally commit themselves, for three-plus years, to work that they feel is a waste of their time. The problems currently before us MORE than justify their level of concern and persistence.

As for some of the conclusions I have drawn, based on continuous study of a wide variety of information I consider relevant to the issue-at-hand, and on continuous *subjective AND objective observation*, I will tell you this much: I am not going to state them in a message board venue at this juncture as I am well aware of the possible consequences.

At any rate, it is now my very strong feeling that much of the truth of the issue-at-hand is going to present ITSELF by simple virtue of its accelerating - and increasingly observable - impact on the world around us. I believe this is already happening as we speak. It is just a matter of time, in my opinion.

I hope you understand what I have tried to convey here, Mr. Kunz. I am just one person out of MANY who are deeply concerned about what is currently transpiring with our life-support systems - and the implications of this for future generations. Speaking ONLY for myself, I am not entirely sure where I am going from here - but it is, I know, time for a change in direction.

posted 06-03-2002 02:35 PM            

For 100 launches (over a 20 year span), this "equals" 1.3 billion beer cans.

Actually, a large percentage of the fuel is burned up just getting the shuttle off the pad. this exhaust is cooled with water and directed away from the pad. NASA studies and maps the deposition from each launch.

posted 06-07-2002 03:07 PM            

.....It might interest you to know that I am communicating regularly with someone in Arizona. It is my understanding that being outdoors down there this week is rather unpleasant, to say the very least.....
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On May 31, 2002, 08:35pm, in a post now mysteriously *deleted*, Mr. Kunz wrote to the effect that daytime temperatures in his area of Arizona [Mesa] were perfectly normal for this time of year.
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Received from someone in Arizona [Sedona] today, June 7, 2002, via e-mail, with the comment that today's temperature for that area may set a record:

Statement as of 7:30am MST on June 07, 2002

A Windy Weekend In Store For Northern
Arizona

A developing low pressure system in the Pacific north west will move into the Great Basin region of Utah this weekend. This will produce very strong winds across northern Arizona on Saturday and Sunday. Southwest winds of 25 to 35 mph with gusts of 40 to 50 mph or even higher are expected.

A dry cold front will move through the state on Sunday. No precipitation is expected but the front will bring a cooler air mass to northern Arizona.

***The record high heat of that last few days will be replaced by more seasonal temperatures on Sunday and Monday.***

posted 07-02-2002 05:11 PM            

Sun's spectacular show
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor


There has been a spectacular eruption from the Sun's surface. It occurred at 1319 GMT on Monday and was imaged by the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, which sits in space at a gravitational balance point between our star and Earth. The giant prominence at the bottom left of the image is more than 30 times the Earth's diameter.

Such prominences are not uncommon on our star. If they are directed towards the Earth, they can lead to dramatic lights in Northern and Southern polar skies and also radio and communications interference. Researchers say that this particular explosion was directed away from Earth.

Hot but faded

The prominences are gigantic loops of magnetic fields that emerge from below the Sun's surface. As they rise, they become filled with trapped, superhot gas that is heated to many millions of degrees.

Sometimes, as the magnetic fields become twisted and unstable, the magnetic energy collapses and explosively heats vast quantities of gas which then bursts and rises off the Sun in just a few minutes or hours.

The image taken by the Soho satellite is in the spectral line of singly ionised helium (He II) in the extreme ultraviolet region of the spectrum. The material in the eruptive prominence is at temperatures of 60,000-80,000 Kelvin, which although extremely hot is still much cooler than the surrounding corona, or outer atmosphere, which is typically at temperatures above one million K. Researchers followed the eruption as it moved out in space and faded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2081000/2081910.stm

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The day the sun caught fire
by Ed Harris

This spectacular eruption of superheated gases, shooting a flame hundreds of thousands of miles long into space from the sun, was captured on film by an orbiting satellite.

The solar eruption, which is more than 240,000 miles long, burst from the surface of the sun yesterday as the satellite had its cameras trained on our nearest star. The explosion is what astronomers call an eruptive prominence, a loop of magnetic fields that trap hot gas inside.

As the trapped gas becomes unstable it erupts violently into space. If eruptions like these are aimed at Earth, they can disturb the magnetosphere, the planet's magnetic field, with dramatic consequences.

Past eruptions have knocked out satellites, wrecked television reception and caused power surges and blackouts, but this one was fortunately not aimed at us.

Scientists say the sun is experiencing a solar max, a period of strong activity that happens about every 11 years and lasts for about three or four years.

The eruption is mostly burning hydrogen gas and solar particles which have been flung into space at around 100,000F, eight times the temperature at the core of the Earth, which is up to 13,000F - and hot enough to vapourise our planet should the Earth cross its path.

So much superheated hydrogen was involved in the eruption that although the gas is one of the lightest substances in the universe, it would have had a greater mass and weighed more than Mount Everest, our tallest peak.

The Soho satellite - short for Solar and Heliospheric Observatory - is a joint Nasa and European Space Agency project, orbiting the Sun a million miles from Earth. Its mission is to observe "space weather".

Todd Hoeksema, solar astronomer at Nasa, said: "This was quite a large eruption and they are pretty spectacular. "The material goes out into space, and if it is heading towards Earth it will hit our atmosphere and disturb the magnetic field. "It can damage satellites and sometimes means planes flying over the poles have to be re-routed, because it interferes with communications equipment."