posted 09-11-2001 08:21 PM            

The grounding of all COMMERCIAL aircraft is absolutely unprecedented.

For those concerned about the spraying of our skies, this unique situation affords an opportunity for careful observation. Now would be an excellent time for all those concerned to meticulously record their observations on the inevitable return of white skies. Couple your observations with atmospheric soundings - Skew-T diagrams - to establish whether physical conditions are appropriate for persistent trails.

posted 09-12-2001 12:39 AM            

I'd like to make a note that although I post my chemtrail observations from the Spokane area and therefore often speak of the heavy spraying in Spokane, the actual area being sprayed is extremely broad.

Last Thursday I had occasion to travel from Spokane (which borders Idaho) to Okanogan (located northwest of Spokane in Central Washington on the Washington-Canada border). The entire sky from Spokane to Okanogan was covered with chemtrail-created clouds. Now, this is only one direction. How much of the sky was covered in all the directions in which I was not travelling?

I asked myself what the day would have been like had the skies not been covered with chemtrails. The next day, on my way back to Spokane, I found out. It was a beautiful blue-sky day with gorgeous natural billowy clouds in the sky. I'm glad I had the opportunity to experience at least one nice travel day.

When a long-haul trucker relay to me his observations of chemtrail activity, he often observes chemtrails covering entire states from state line to state line and beyond.

posted 09-12-2001 11:07 AM            

Dear Mr. David:

From what I read of your post above, you seem to be postulating one of several different scenarios.

1. Clouds that are not the result of aircraft contrails are chemtrails, too. ("... thin wispy, dripping 'clouds' all in rows...")

Yet if it is possible to have chemtrails that are not the result of airplanes, why is there all the uproar between aircraft contrails and chemtrails?

2. They are the result of aircraft activity, but these aircraft are quiet and invisible ones. ("No planes heard or visible.")

Yet if there are aircraft that are "cloaked" why didn't we see the contrails? Are they "cloaked", too? And if we have "cloaked" aircraft that can produce "cloaked" contrails, why are we taking all these pictures of aircraft and contrails?

3. Some chemtrails are formed, not by airplanes, but by the government's High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP). ("HAARP")

If HAARP can cause chemtrails, I'm sure it'd be a lot cheaper than flying a bazillion aircraft 24/7 all over the world. It would also be a lot easier to keep the real reason for HAARP secret (since only a couple hundred researchers would need to know the 'real' purpose) than it would to keep the aircraft-spray method secret (because there'd have to be hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in on the secret).

If you postulate the existence of chemtrails, then the hypothesis that makes the most sense is that all chemtrails are the result of aircraft spraying, and, since all aircraft were grounded, there were no chemtrails, and what you saw yesterday were simply naturally formed clouds.

There is another hypothesis, of course, but I don't believe this is the place to bring it up.

In any event, I'd like to hear your input. There may be several hypotheses that you were considering that I missed.

Regards,

posted 09-12-2001 12:12 PM            

And I would be interested in knowing what the other thing is that you do not want to post here.

"There is another hypothesis, of course, but I don't believe this is the place to bring it up." Please Mr. Kunz, enlighten me.

posted 09-12-2001 03:12 PM            

"There is another hypothesis, of course, but I don't believe this is the place to bring it up."

posted 09-12-2001 04:15 PM            

Thank you for your comments and inputs to my post. I apologize for not answering sooner, but I had spent most of the morning at the travel agent's office with my wife, canceling our vacation which was to have started tomorrow. Lufthansa Flight 449 from Phoenix to Athens via Frankfurt has, of course, been canceled; and spending three weeks in eastern Europe does not seem like a peaceful vacation now.

With your concurrence, I shall respond to both of your posts in this letter. Mr. David, since my original post was to you, I shall reply to you first. As usual, your posts are in "quotes"; my response in italics.

"I was only attempting to report what I observed, which at this point I think was a huge mistake."

I hope it wasn't my response that made you think you made a mistake! In a forum like this, we can expect that our comments and ideas are treated with courtesy and respect. However, I think we should also expect that our colleagues will, at the very least, question each others' assertions. How else could we exchange opinions? I am sure that if i were to make a pronouncement that some folks didn't agree with, I would at least get a note asking me to explain my views further.

I also would like to apologize if I had - even inadvertently - assumed you actually were pushing one of the three scenarios I mentioned. What I meant to convey was that you seemed to be postulating one of those scenarios. Of course, I haven't a clue as to which hypothesis if any, you were postulating; this is why I had asked for further input, and mentioned "There may be several hypotheses that you were considering that I missed." Again, if my assumptions were wrong, I apologize.

Regarding other hypotheses: Even on this board, which Mr Thermit runs with courtesy and open-mindedness, some things are simply not "politically correct" and would tend to upset other colleagues here. If you would care to discuss such hypotheses off-line, please feel free to contact me at duncankunz@home.com, and I will be glad to discuss them further

Mr. Penumbra, you mentioned that "HAARP could cause clouds to form using the chemicals already present in the sky."

That may be the case, but I have seen no research on the correlation between operation of the HAARP and cloud formation. If there were a way you could use an ELF receiver to determine the time of HAARP activity and correlate it with subsequent cloud formation, of course, it would be sound data and an excellent study; however, to the best of my knowledge, such a study hasn't been done.

"As an example: The photoluminescent strands and particulate matter are visible in large quantities on clear days that are preceded by heavy spray days."

I am not sure that spray days causing "photoluminescent strands and particulate matter" are analogous to the presence of low-frequency electromagnetic signals and cloud formation. Nonetheless, despite anecdotal evidence, I am not aware of any studies - even those on the Carnicom site - that correlate particulates with heavy contrails. Again, if a study were performed - using strict controls - that showed an increase in particulates after a heavy-contrail regime, it would be a good thing, since it would be a piece of data that couldn't be easy ignored by the mainstream media.

Regards,

posted 09-12-2001 08:22 PM            

I have to agree with that particular observation Mark. Two days prior to the WTC attack we had a stepped up chemtrails operation.. which was more than I've seen in our area for a couple of months now.
The day of the attack the skies were clear blue... no spraying and no clouds of any kind present here in the Yakima Valley. Today we have some high cirrus clouds but I haven't seen any planes.

I think one thing that can be ruled out is the hypothesis that the chemtrails are being created by increased air traffic or even commercial airlines since all of us know that these last two days there have been no commercial air traffic flying due to the terrorist attacks.

posted 09-12-2001 11:03 PM            

F-16s, F-15s, AWACS, KC-135's, and KC-10s. That's pretty much about it. The military has owned the airspace over the USA since a few hours after the attack.

We (that includes me) have been flying in combat air patrols over the skies of the USA since a few hours after the attacks. We've been sitting on alert at the end of many runways in this country, just in case if anyone else gets any stupid ideas. I've been privy to enough info in the last 24 hours to know that we are doing the right thing.

Yesterday, for example, we were protecting an unnamed area of the Southwest. There were absolutely no aircraft flying within a 300-mile radius of me that we didn't know about for the six hours that I was airborne. There were no "chemplanes" or "chemsprayers" or any planes at all other than myself, a few other fighters, a KC-135, and an AWACS. That's it. And I'm 100% positive that the same can be said for the rest of the United States as well. With a set of night-vision goggles on a clear night, you can see planes many hundreds of miles away.

Delphi, the "circles" that you saw being made were probably fighters in a Combat Air Patrol. It could have also been a tanker or an AWACS as well, though. I wasn't there, but I guarantee that if there were "chemplanes," (which I contend do not exist,) then the fighter pilots in the F-15s would have definitely known about them and forced them to land (or shot them down.) Only mission essential aircraft were airborne. All other flights were told to land or were forced to land, even down to the smallest Cessna.

The people flying over your heads last night were there to protect you. It sounds corny, but that's the truth. They left loved ones at home, climbed into their planes, and spent their evening making circles in the sky in case anyone else decided to do anything stupid. I find it appalling that, even amidst what has happened, some of you still have the nerve to make the accusations that I've seen.

I'll take this time to say that this board is actually one of the more tame (less paranoid) "chemtrail" boards that I've seen in the last 24 hours. If I weren't banned at Cliff's, I'd have a lot to say to a bunch of the delusionals over there. True colors are flying high on that board, and at CTTUSA.

I saw a post earlier from a "conspiracy theorist" that actually suggested that people quit giving blood and to stop sending in donations. That's a great summary of just how out of touch with reality these people are, in my opinion.

It's a surreal thing to get a hamburger at the local McDonalds and, one hour later, be airborne with live missiles over your hometown. Terrorism has really hit home. I'm very apprehensive of going to war with anyone, especially since it's my pink body that' we're talking about putting at risk. But let me tell you, and put any doubts to rest, that I will gladly pull the trigger on whoever has done this.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those out there who have lost friends or loved ones in this terrible tragedy.

posted 09-12-2001 11:38 PM            

I've also noticed that the sky is a much deeper shade of blue than I've seen in the last couple of years.

I wish you the best of luck with your current mission, Maverick. I only hope that you are not called on to exact retribution for this tragic attack before all the cards have been dealt.

posted 09-13-2001 08:39 AM            

The assertation about HAARP was obviously speculation on my part. Just assuming that was what David was getting at. As for the analogy, the point I was trying to make (without a scientific mind) is that whatever substances are in our atmosphere stay up there for quite some time.

Would someone with more knowledge of atmospheric conditions like to jump in here?

I'm sorry that you anniversary trip was cancelled Duncan.

posted 09-13-2001 09:17 AM            

Oops.

Duncan (blushing furiously) Kunz