posted 02-21-2002 08:10 AM            

quote:

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This is a launch forecast of anticipated dates for the NASA Space Shuttle and NASA payloads on expendable vehicles. U.S. Air Force and commercial launches are not covered. It is an assessment of the earliest possible dates for upcoming NASA missions based on current planning or prelaunch preparations, and therefore, is not necessarily final.

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There is also on of those little round chembows that look like a mini-sun in one of the clouds almost directly above. This is not in a cloud close to the sun like I've seen before. The sun was still closer to the horizon at this point. Most of these types of chemballs or round chembows that I have witnessed are usually in a "cloud of chemscum" just to the left or right of where the sun is. This one was in a spreading trail above. It was won of the fat kind with a wider dispersment (rather than the dense foggy spread).

This was weird, sorry for the clumsy description. I've been under the weather and have not been checking in but this display was compelling to note.

The timing of all of these trails minutes after the launch seemed odd to me. Launch trail was very small, it was something light whatever they sent up. I'm sure if someone wants to dig over there at NASA's site they could find out what it was, but is that really significant? The significance to me is if these trails are supposed to be caused by atmospheric conditions then are we controlling those conditions? The timining of a barage of CTs showing up just after the launch seemed planned. I only saw four tanker looking planes so they must have been busy or the others just out of site.

posted 02-21-2002 11:58 AM            

Anyway, the "Santa Ana" winds, are what caused this huge fire here in California 2 weeks ago (the Fallbrook fire).. And now these winds are back it will be interesting to see if they repeat the pattern of staying with us through Tuesday of next week, of if they will go away sooner...

We do have a lot of trails in the sky today, but they are scattered, and inconsistent. I noticed a HUGE V shaped trail covering the sun..

By the way, I never see any Phoenix reports in here, maybe I'm not looking hard enough..

But Phoenix was mostly cloudy the entire time I was there.. I could see a lot of trails below the high clouds though.. On the last day I was there, Monday, it was pretty sunny, and very little trail activity, even on the return trip back through Yuma and the mountains.

posted 02-21-2002 01:01 PM            

The sky was crystal clear early morning. The jets 8AM or so left no trails, not even comet like ones. These planes were also higher ( or seemed so because they were smaller, thinner and seemed to be moving faster)than the trail planes. Those I could make out color on the tail red/blue, and just blue and maybe silver on the other. I heard these planes before I saw them, that is how I spotted them.

The ones after the launch were all leaving trails, thick and heavy directly behind the plane, like in the fuel dump pics, no space. Except for one had a space between the plane and the trail (the dark gray one). The planes resembled those of tankers (sorry, no zoom lens so I can't say for sure but they weren't a common airline for lack of any color markings and shape). They were all white, except one that was dark gray, again no visible markings. They weren't all that high up either it seemed like this because they were so huge and appearing to move much more slowly then the earlier ones.

There is another puzzle. I distinctly heard the two early AM jets. There were already a dozen lines between the time the lauch went off and I got my mail (about 20min.or so).

I was drawn out to take a look when I heard the sound as I generally do. Beautiful clear sky in all directions. There were less than a handful of small puffy normal looking clouds, just to be totally accurate but crystal blue everywhere else.

When I went out to get the mail there "they" were. As I watched four planes make 8 or nine more trails I was straining to hear them. Granted street noise had increased by then (now we're up to around 9:45AM I watched them for a while, even saw one do the turn off turn on business) but still seemed odd that they were so hard to hear.

We are now under complete white out conditions. There are some normal looking clouds in the sky floating under what is a completely milky white background instead of blue. There are also some not so normal "oily" looking brown clouds floating by too, and oh yeah there's that chemdog aournd the sun and the round chembow I've seen earlier to explain away.

I'm not the shutter bug but there are plenty pics in our image base here if you don't see in your minds eye what I'm describing.

Deb, I'm not trying to be agrumentative so please don't come back all nasty at me. I'm just regecting the forecast trail indicator as the proof of coincidence because there are to many other elements and trying to give you more details on what those are.

posted 02-21-2002 01:49 PM            

Some of us debunkers e-mail each other with our contrail predictions. I mailed out one this morning for northern Florida, and was surprised that you were seeing them that far south that early. There was a Low Front moving down; I guess it was moving faster than I thought. Are you expecting rain tonight or tomorrow? Sometimes, when a Low Front approaches with precipitation, is when you will see the heavy contrails and eventually a white out condition. The different appearance of the trails depnds on the level of RH at each altitude that the planes are flying.

posted 02-21-2002 03:36 PM            

3T3 and Thermit (anyone else?} are familiar with the program. I have neglected studying FE further for a couple of reasons other than simply leaving research to those more qualified.

Time being the most essential to me right now. There are some personal family obligations I'm going through that may be prolonged indefinitely. There is of course the living most all of us have to make. The other set-back for me would be the learning curve to comprehend the findings and ins and outs of the program as I am mostly unfamiliar with it. I don't pretend to be of a science bend, missed that gene in the family pool. That's OK, I know scientists that can't market their way out of a wet paper bag. We all have our talents.

That doesn't mean I don't think it is a good idea. That doesn't mean I can't see reason or don't have an open mind to factual data. That goes for lots of other folks here too. I don't think this thread is the proper forum for such research though.

I specifically started this thread to collect reports on a regular basis temporarily from those who believe what they are seeing is true, whether it be contrail or chemtrail, weather related or not and to look for any patterns to emerge.

This thread has since expanded for both reports and into somewhat of a safe haven for those of us who do believe and wish to vent and compare our observations in a place without ridicule. I'm delighted about this and see many new people chose this thread to for their first posts. We can check in here to see what is going on with the other parts of the country and some times the world. (BC, Lulu..wink)in comparison to our own.

Flight Explorer seems to fall more in to research. We could start a FE thread on the science forum and I would gladly defer to your findings if 3T3, Therm, and others familiar with the program here would concur or debate the findings as sounding boards with you so that both sides of the isle are represented. 3T3L1 may suggest that this more appropriately belongs on a research forum and not hard science. That's her call.

What do you think mods? Learning more about FE would be good for all activists. As a non-science type and in light of the "less than warm" response I received when I posted questions on the fuel dumps thread by the nice debunker, perhaps we could have a thread where all could be made welcome to participate with their views. Where we are not intimidated to even pose the occasional lay question. The idea being that there are no foolish questions only fools to afraid to ask what might already have been answered.

I have very little doubt that what I'm seeing are military or maybe NATO planes, and as in Thermits research report they seem to be the only ones leaving the spreading overtly persistent contrails. As I type this the blue is just now starting to show through the milky haze. Not blue peaking through clouds...the milky haze is becoming more and more blue, burning off.

posted 02-21-2002 07:50 PM            

Let's not forget our friends Kneweyes, Dan and more...in Conn. that have been diligent with reports lately and Roman and folks in Ohio who by all reports get pounded almost daily. OR and WA, BC too. There are other's in ME besides eyesopen I'm in touch with that might be willing to help. Somehow if we could get larger states to report regionally, like FL, TX, CA you know what I mean...

For instance, Florida break N to cover Panhandle to DAytona Beach, W. Central Chiefland (ha if you've heard of that) Tampa south to Naples. E. Central Daytona over to Orlando down to Ft. Pierce. S FL. West Palm to KeyWest. Without people interested we have nothing.

One more thing, what about icorporating more data than just FE like BobB's sun activity interest, and weather, and radar rings, and maybe even HAARP activity. What about fuel dumps? Seems like we are always back to the place where one snapshot of info just isn't the whole picture. My wall map, interesting as it was was a waste of time, with the exception of starting a reporting thread that is used regularly.

If more are interested, 3T3, I leave it to you tomorrow to start the thread and give us some guidelines as to how you see the reporting should go. In the effort of bipartisanship, perhaps Deb, will contribute her ideas on expectations since this was her brainchild.

Once again, what seems a wonderful and simple idea in order to work will have to be comprised of many components, commitment and time. Hey, a lot of us are here anyway, let's try and do something productive. Althogh the something fun thread has to stay!!
Let's at least start the new thread to talk about it. Where do we draw the limitations?

posted 02-21-2002 09:10 PM            

What I am curious about is what type of data can hoped to be gleaned from another FE study.

I thought Thermit's exhastive Trail Research Report did a wonderful job of giving lie to the myth that these were "nothing more than commercial jets leaving normal contrails", unquote.

FE was originally touted as a means of identifying these jets. It is now common knowledge that FE does not identify military aircraft. And that it is military aircraft that are responsible for dispersing these ponderous 'trails'. I have seen a handful of ancedotal reports from people claiming that commercial aircraft were somehow involved, but most of these can be traced to parties that were involved in creating a hoax to attempt to discredit legitmate chemtrail research and activism

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/disinfo.shtml

Now the people involved in this and other hoaxes would like people to report their observations to them so that they can 'tell' the observers what they are seeing ?

I got a better idea. Buy your own copy of FE and do your own research. At least work with someone with something approaching a half-way decent reputation within the CT community.

But I have to ask, again, what data it is that is hoped to be gained from such an endeavor?

Specifically.

posted 02-21-2002 09:12 PM            

it wasn't the jet spew was it?
Des{er}Rt ReseArch CentEr
i'm sure it was just a natural occurence
\and gorge bush is coming to tuck me in at night...

posted 02-21-2002 10:22 PM            

My wife shared an observation with me that, date/coincidence, after a day of heavy CT activity the following day results in NO stable TV reception. We use rabbit ears and pick up 4 local channels and the reception is usually not bad except for the day after and it's a continuous sputter and spit signal. Radio reception, however, does not appear to be affected.
________________

posted 02-21-2002 10:28 PM            

Sounds like you've had an interesting road trip. Nothin' like the open road to broaden your horizons... so to speak.

I wasn't aware that your little corner of paradise was under a MAO. I guess if someone wanted to belabor the point about these chemjets not being of commercial origin they could relentlessly photograph the suspects operating in an area restricted to military aircraft for years on end and post them on the internet.

Maybe throw in a little prose poetry, some bg sound, a few animated gifs. Something that would get people's attention!

Just a thought.

posted 02-21-2002 11:22 PM            

taking in the dawn

posted 02-22-2002 08:04 AM            

quote:

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I have very little doubt that what I'm seeing are military or maybe NATO planes, and as in Thermits research report they seem to be the only ones leaving the spreading overtly persistent contrails. As I type this the blue is just now starting to show through the milky haze. Not blue peaking through clouds...the milky haze is becoming more and more blue, burning off.

I guess I'm to bias already to make a good collaborator on a FE research project. I do think it is a good idea. Thank you for your polite response Deb, it is appreciated.

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I agree with Chem11, that FE research will prove the same that Thermit has already found out about mil flights, since the program does not include them. It seems if debunkers are willing to find this out for themselves maybe they will come a little closer to seeing that chemtrails are not caused by commercial traffic. All debunkers can't be so rooted in their belief that chemmies are wrong, could they? Why would they spend so much time on these boards hanging out with us?