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  Bottom Sprayer Photo (Page 1)

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Topic:   Bottom Sprayer Photo

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-03-2001 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure how tom post the photo right here (help!), but Raven has sent me a photo that he took with an amazing telescope set-up. It is called Bottom Sprayer and has a weird trail comming from the bottom of the aircraft. Here is Raven's words about this photo:

"This shot was strange to me also as I barely could see thru the viewfinder what was happening and it did not reveal itself until developing. The plane as I originally had focused in on it was leaving engine
contrails but they were of the type that "turn on and off" (which, if you do a lot of observing you know what I mean-even more evidence in my mind of something
fishy) This makes it very hard to track with the telescope since without the trails the plane virtually dissappears from view thru the lense as I try to sweep the sky-so the very trails themselves are helpful in
locking on to the plane. So, I had this particular plane in view, along with the engine contrails, but as I was waiting to take the photo the normal trails ended (were shut off?!) and revealed the single bottom
sprayer you see in the picture. Weather this was "on" all along and hidden from veiw due to the engine contrails, or weather this bottom sprayer was turned on when the others were shut off, it was not clear from my observation. I noticed the abnormal bottom
spray as I took the picture and I wanted to advance for another shot of that plane but its' path took it behind a row of pine trees that line the large parking lot I use and I missed it. As frustrating as only getting one shot was, I still felt happy that the one
I did get proved what I witnessed in real life: the mysterious bottom spray.

As to weather this ended up turning into a typical chemical trail I can tell you that it did not appear to. From what I could tell it dissapated entirely very close behind the plane- I'd say by within 3-5 plane lengths it was totally invisible."

Anyone care to comment on what this might be? Search for Raven's photos in the image database; incredible photography!

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-03-2001 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Plane pee ?



[Edited 2 times, lastly by theseeker on 10-03-2001]

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-03-2001 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting.

Any expert opinions on what this might be?

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-04-2001 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wouldn't human waste be discharged from the rear of the craft (yes, I can see there is a joke there somewhere!)????

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-05-2001 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Duncan?

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Duncan Kunz
Senior Member


582 posts, Oct 2000

posted 10-05-2001 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Duncan Kunz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Mr. Thermit:

I did a quick search of some of the more accessible databases and could not find out where the waste-dump orifices are. My guess, though is that what we see is not waste dump trails. Here is my rationale:

Even when you add in all the water-dump from the galleys, etc. to the effluent from the toilets, you aren't going to have that much mass over a single flight. Also, the stuff coming out is going to probably be primarily a liquid with macerated solids, or else a slurry of some sort.

This is important, I think, because something that's not highly vaporized will not spread out as it freezes as would a contrail. Instead, given the ambient temperature (typically -40 deg) and wind chill factor (typically -200 deg equivalent) the effluent would be flash-frozen into little clumps and streamers. In other words, it probably wouldn't be a spray after all.

The reporter was rather vague in describing the image acquisition. He / she first says that "...it did not reveal itself until developing" Then, he reports that "I noticed the abnormal bottom spray as I took the picture..."

This is not nit-picking. If the photographer did not notice the line until developing, i would assume it was a developmental artifact, i.e., some scratch or light flare. This is because the line is not a straight line as you would expect from a bunch of particulates in a 550-mi/hr wind shear. Instead, the line wavers around a bit. I don't think you'd see that if it were actually something -- vapor or slurry -- that actually came from the aircraft. Also, the fact that it is such a completely different color and contrast in what is an extremely degraded view leads me to believe that it is the result of inadvertent post-processing contamination.

But, on the other hand, the report suggests that the photographer actually saw the artifact as it was formed. Given the confusion in my interpreting the report, I can't say for sure what it is coming from the aircraft; but, based on the lack of straightness of the line, the different color and contrast, and the photographer's first comment, I would propose that the line is a post-processing artifact.

Regards,

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-05-2001 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 10-05-2001 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It dosen't seem to be airplane toilet crud...but maybe just plain crud...something sprayed from under the plane, making it plane crud...or, perhaps some kind of light beam but definitely something there...if BOTH these plane pics are the same plane from different vantage points...hmmm....interesting...and something really seems to be presenting itself in the photo....I have had developing artifacts and such show up in my stuff, but this dosen't appear to be one of those. Blessings, Joanne ^j^ ^j^

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-05-2001 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I don't think it is an artifact. Notice the way the trail in the first photo, seems to be pulled up, as the fuselage tapers...

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 10-05-2001 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And isn't airplane toilet poo-poo spray usually a pretty shade of blue spray??? Not that I've seen any sprayed up close...but from time to time, we hear of blocks of "blue ice" coming through someones roof, and it is always explained as "plane toilet" poo-poo ice block?? Joanne

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-05-2001 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not an artifact. Raven has been nice enough to send me the original photos by mail. He has a few of this type of thing. They are very light and scanning loses the detail. Anyone know how to overcome this so I can post more of this bottom trail stuff? He did not notice it at first because it was getting dark and he was tring to get this jet doing a start and stop trail thing. He said on about 700 photos he's seen this around 4 times. He has done a lot of research into telescope photography and what film to use etc. He sent me spme photos where this little third trail is also coming out of the tail hidden between the "regular (ha ha)" trails on either side. Tracer gas maybe? Lets face it; it has some purpose and is not vapor trails or waste probably. I think this is pretty good evidence that something is being released in the air. Anyway, not an artifact because he has sent me a few photos showing the exact same thing and also a similar thing from the tail section between other contrails.

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mark sky
bin Rydin


SW coast of Oregon
1089 posts, Jun 2001

posted 10-06-2001 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mark sky     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
excellent shots~ where was Chem 11's taken?
is it a different time and plane?
as for "evidence"................
all these photos dont count you know
only that "evidence" that tiny blare and powells colin and boy george have
that they are not going to show to anyone
thats the "evidence" that will start WW 111
oh haul me off to the stockyards
feed me peanuts an beer
we will have a great time in the terror war
and depopulate at the same time

excuse me~ i am out of my mind
be back in 5 minutes...

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-06-2001 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes MSky, evidence is only for the few not the people it looks like. Someone at my work was already buying in to the re-ordering of us all. Anyway the Chem11 photo was another taken by Raven of a different plane. Looks like the same thing or a similar thing though. Great shots. He goes where only the telescope can. I will post some more of these if I can figure out how to scan them without losing needed detail.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 10-06-2001 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I could've argued for the line on the first photograph being some sort of artifact, but the line on the second one looks convincing.

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-06-2001 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first photo is a zoom of the original. Scanning and zooming in have made it look more artifactesque (Ok, not a real word...). It really looks like a trail of something on the paper photo, not zoomed and pixilated.

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Duncan Kunz
Senior Member


582 posts, Oct 2000

posted 10-06-2001 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Duncan Kunz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3T3L1, I agree. The second photo's line looks more 'real'. Notice how it appears to be globules, as though there were solids or more viscid portions along with the more liquid stuff. That suggests cabin waste to me.

But inasmuch it doesn't stay around for a long time, it chouldn't be chemtrails, n'est-ce pas?

Regards,

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-06-2001 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know where such mentioned waste would be ejected. Also keep in mind that these photos are from the airspace over a city I think. Is there some reg on not ejecting human waste over people of possible?

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-06-2001 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, I don't think there are rules that say all chemtrails have to be the most noticed type. Certainly ones that only can be seen through telescope may not fit the typical kind.

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-07-2001 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also, I don't think there are rules that say all chemtrails have to be the most noticed type

you have to be kidding ? ahemmm...no your not...the above statement is why chemtrails will never be taken seriously by any recognized group, you can't say well it's this...and later say it's that...simply that's why william thomas and clifford carnicom are not reliable sources regarding evidence of spraying...because their cause of why and how changes daily....

Although one chemtrail participant did choose to take a realistic approach...

The goal of this research was to determine if there was a type of trail that was inconsistent with normal contrails, especially with regard to increased persistence.

Defined parameters...what a concept...observe, theorize, attempt to prove....

The thing is if board participants far and wide are concerned about environmental issues they should just say so, and not hide behind a mystical all emcompassing veil of "chemtrail spraying" to address their concerns on the stability of our health and ecosystem...

returning you to your regular progamming...

T/S

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-07-2001 02:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What I meant was that maybe there are some aspects to this that are not obvious under normal conditions. Using a telescope to get up close photos may reveal something not seen before as perhaps here. that's all.

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-07-2001 03:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
eyes, I suggest that you get "picture it" or some related program to help scan your photos....contrast and brightness can be adjusted to help viewing...

Professional comment on the pink "plane pee" photo coming shortly...

what I meant was what I said...I'm funny that way...

T/S

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eyesopen
This Space For Rent

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

posted 10-07-2001 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eyesopen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am working on a scanning solution now but my ports quit working on my system. I figured I could photoshop 'em a little better but as of now my scanner doesn't talk to my computer. I am anxious to hear the verdict on plane pee. And please tell me what you really think - quit holding back this is the nuetral zone you know

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 10-07-2001 05:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still am pretty sure that plane toilet dumps..."pardon the pun"....were supposed to be blue??? Everytime ya here of one of these big blue blocks of ice that crash through someones ceiling, it is always explained away as airplane toilet discharge dealy...Not that I investigate toilet waters or anything like that...just what I've heard...even when in a plane bathroom, the toilet water is that pretty shade of blue...at least for a while beforehand... Then, it may turn green or brown?? Don't mind me, been up all night. Gonna join Mark in his Insanity fest if he dosen't mind company. Anyway EYESOPEN, good research and pic and keep the info comin. It never has looked like an artifact to me for some reason...The telescope type pics oughtta be of great value...keep at it and Raven too. Blessings and watch out for blue ice!! Joanne ^j^

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 10-07-2001 05:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T/S...Now don't be pickin at my "toilet water" theory dealy....For you, I'll spray on real perfume...the kind from Paris...Now be nice sugar... Joanne ^j^

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Duncan Kunz
Senior Member


582 posts, Oct 2000

posted 10-09-2001 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Duncan Kunz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Colleagues:

I'd like to find out what telescope system Mr. Raven is using for his photographs.

I have a Nikon 990 digital which I've mated to an 8-inch SC telescope; obviously, that would not work for long telephoto work of anything other than astronomical objects.

My bride is looking to buy a spotting scope and adapter for her birdwatching; I figured anything that would work for that should work for taking photographs of high-altitude aircraft.

Any advice, either from Mr. Raven or anyone else, who has actually used a particular scope for photography, would be welcome. I was thinking about a 20X - 60X Swarovski spotting scope, but we're talking over $500; I'd like to be able to get a cheaper one if it will do the job. Hope to hear from you!

Regards,

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 10-10-2001]

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