posted 12-28-2001 08:47 AM            

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Rudeness and derision may be grounds for loss of posting rights at the discretion of the administrator.

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posted 12-28-2001 11:26 AM            

Let me pose a question, everyone here who thinks the goverment or NWO or whoever is spraying, they didnt find the site AFTER they noticed "chemtrails". An idea was planted that contrails are chemicals into minds that didnt notice, too much, contrails before. They didnt become noticable until they started reading and seeing stuff on these sites.

I remember quite clearly the day I was looking out and saying to a friend , gee, there's something "funny" about the clouds, they are acting strange. Clouds "acting" strange?? How can they do that? I knew nothing about chemtrails or chemtrail activists then. Then one day I was driving and I see these jets 'practicing' for an air show or something. I said to myself "Hmmm that is strange,, it's the middle of winter and no air shows are scheduled during the winter." Why are they doing what looked to me like synchronised contrailing,, or skywriting without the words? Doing obvious turns, not going anywhere in particular as a 'normal' flight does. As Time went on,,, I thought to myself ,,, hmmmm must be some pretty BIG airshow in the future, for them to need to "practice" so much for it!

Then one day I stumbled upon a site called "Strange Haze" and my world came tumbling down. So, I hope that answers your question.

Then you write:

You need to weed out some of the fringe elements. They will be the down fall of your cause.

Hey.... NOW your getting personal ! I am fringe! I am one of the fringiest of the fringe! I think maybe the fringe are hitting some sore (hot) spots which gets you 'personal signature' guys in a tither lately,,, like the subject of this thread maybe???
Oh thats right,,, you 'personal signature' people, like things "Compartmentalized", that way no one can ever put the 2 and the other 2 together , so they can add them up to 4,, and so on and so on, till we finally hit 100% BABY!!!

posted 12-28-2001 11:31 AM            

What is TPTB?

A few questions.

1- If these aircraft are spraying at 20k or 30k, how do they form cirrus clouds?

2- The same aircraft at the same altitude traveling at 350 mph or more, spraying, is there anyone who can calculate the volume of material that would have to be spread for that effect?

3- I was outside for an hour or so, freezing my butt off,and there were contrails forming in two corridors, both heading west. One off to the north about 10 degrees above the horizon, one above and another to the south about 20 degrees above the horizon. I would guess the southern had the most traffic. Some were leaving these persistant contrails. One in particular was very persistant, spreading out very slowly. Am I to understand this is a chemtrail??

I did some thinking and the amount of material needed for spraying to get to the ground? I know the C-130 spray planes need to be at very low level to have anything of measureable levels on the ground.

I am willing to accept the weather modification idea, but the population control or innoculation is a bit (sarcasm) out there!

As to my trollish comments, I am not religious by any means, but I have read more than a few post by individuals who are making this cause sound like a holy crusade. And they are the soldiers for this crusade. I am more than a little offended by the comparison, as any person of the Book should be!

Lack of comprehension? Do you know the scale of the operation if it is as wide spread as you claim? The military flies ALOT, and all over the world.
I did understand and didnt gloss over your admission of the flaw. But it doesnt take into account a huge # of military flights. Whether they are transports, bombers, fighters whatever. It is a large flaw in the report.

Chip (Happy New Year, hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday!!)

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posted 12-28-2001 01:01 PM            

"Whenever we have the free flow of all information into the public arena and everyone has respected another's right to interpret that information in ways that feel right to them, human evolution has surged ahead. Whenever the free flow of information has been stemmed and doctored and one belief system imposed, human evolution has stopped or declined. We need to keep this at the forefront of our thinking as we search for ways to build a fair and balanced world in the years to come.
David Icke, Robot's Rebellion.

Let me pose a question, everyone here who thinks the goverment or NWO or whoever is spraying, they didnt find the site AFTER they noticed "chemtrails". An idea was planted that contrails are chemicals into minds that didnt notice, too much, contrails before. They didnt become noticable until they started reading and seeing stuff on these sites.

Chip, I saw my first chemtrail when I didn't even know what a chemtrail was. Looking at this low-hanging, wide, skeletal-looking thing filled me with a very uneasy feeling. A few weeks later I started surfing weather sites etc. and finally a few months later found myself at Thermit's door with a perplexed look on my face.

To flatly state, "Chemtrails are real, no debate, they are true" is someone with thier head in the sand. They only want to hear people who agree with them.

Chemtrails are real IMO, my gut instinct hasn't learned to lie or steer me wrong...doesn't mean I want to impose my views on you or others who think otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions, and I enjoy hearing all sides.

Metals and elements in rain water are very likely from industrial polution, volcanic eruptions who knows.

And could also very likely be from those damned persisting chemtrails, who knows?

The facts are
The US and other goverments have conducted illegal experements on the public, IN THE PAST.

An excellent reason not to trust them, and to question everything.

The are experements including HAARP that do effect the atmosphere, but it is extremely unlikely the NWO or whatever is trying to eliminate or reduce the human population, or innoculate us, it is a bit paranoid.

"All abnormal man-made electromagnetic fields, regardless of their frequencies, produce the same biological effects. These effects, which deviate from normal functions are actually or potentially harmful, are the following:
Effects on growing cells, such as increase in the rate of cancer division; increase in the incidence of certain cancers; development abnormalities in embroyos; alterations in neurochemicals, resulting in behavioural abnormalities such as suicide; alterations in biological cycles; decline in immune-system efficiency; alterations in learning ability."
Robert Becker, MD, author and specialist in electromagnetic pollution, quoted in the Nexus Magazine

"Nor is electromagnetic energy and high technology limited to mind control. Its use is causing catastrophic damage to the pysical body and the environment, besides being perfected for military use. Our non-physical selves are a series of interacting, electromagnetic energy fields, so we are affected at the core of our being by other electromagnetic fields. And if the etheric level is affected, the physical body malfunctions. For reasons of mind control and to create more efficient weapons systems, waves of electromagnetic pulses are being generated across the world by particularily the United States. The US Omega Network, with stations in Norway, Argentina, Hawaii, Japan, Liberia, La Reunion Island, Australia, and the US are sending out low frequency ground waves as part of a nuclear weapons response system. These ground waves are causing ill effects for those who live in the area and for the Earth's energy field. The Omega Network is only part of the mass of electromagnetic frequencies being emitted for reasons of weaponry and control. These are responsible for an enormous number of cancers, cataracts, genetic defects, and mental illness."
David Icke, Robot's Rebellion

TPTB = The Powers That Be (Illuminati?)

posted 12-28-2001 01:11 PM            

Sooooo, I wasn't influenced by anything I read. I just noticed something was very different and went looking for answers. As to whether the phenomenon is benign or sinister, I don't know...but I'd sure like to get to the bottom of it once and for all. Scanner

posted 12-30-2001 05:58 PM            

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Lack of comprehension? Do you know the scale of the operation if it is as wide spread as you claim? The military flies ALOT, and all over the world.

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Actually, I feel the operation is extensive but not as wide-scale as some others.

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I did understand and didnt gloss over your admission of the flaw. But it doesnt take into account a huge # of military flights. Whether they are transports, bombers, fighters whatever. It is a large flaw in the report.

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posted 12-31-2001 09:40 AM            

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Originally posted by nilkin67:

I am willing to accept the weather modification idea, but the population control or innoculation is a bit (sarcasm) out there!

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Hello, Nilkin...

If you are legit, then you seem to have made the concession that chemtrails may exist for the purpose of weather modification. If you can go that far, why not accept the idea that conspiracies could extend to chemtrails purpose to include mass innoculation or population control. History is filled with past and present examples of genocide.

German citizens (and everyone else) for the most part were unaware of the concentration camps and Hitlers/Nazi occult beliefs and connections to corporate and banking interests in the United States and England that generated 50 million deaths in WWII (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Shintoists(?) and atheists).

If you are a legit observer and new to this phenomenon, I can accept that these things are just not something the average citizen (lemming/robot) has ever taken the time to examine. All of us have been in that position until we took the time and made the effort to really question what we once thought was reality, like you may be doing now.

If so, I hope you can have an open mind and read some of the topics here at CTC and elswhere that might break through your probable mass-conditioning mindframe that there is a logical, politically correct explanation for anything and everything that doesn't correspond to your current way of thinking. It may be safer and more comfortable for you to believe that these are only 'contrails', but that's a decision you have to make.

posted 01-02-2002 08:42 AM            

Yes we all pale to your superior intellect and pursasive nature. (Kidding)

Yes I will admit there is the possibility of a program to control or influence the weather. But it is not right to jump from that supposition to population control or mass innoculation!

I have always been willing to accept the reality of chemtrails. They could be result of the shear amount of air traffic, newer fuels, engine designs, new flight patterns. I strongly object to, pardon this word but this is how it appears to me, the hysterical posting. If there is something going on I have never seen ANY hint of it. I have traveled alot, seen alot of military aircraft from all services, and have never seen anything resembling an aircraft outfitted for spraying. The sole exception is the C-130's which are outfitted for spraying. But that is low level and god awful noisy, and very obvious.

Alot of German citizens DID know about the concentration camps! They did not act and pleaded ignorance to save themselves from scorn. But most of the camps were not in Germany. To give them a very small degree of ignorance and they didn't want it on thier back door.

Yes history is filled with genocide, religion is the biggest killer of them all. But past conspiracies and crimes against humanity is not a basis for present accusations.

Spraying at high altitude is not the way to do it! If the plan is for mass murder or innoculation. There are easier, more efficient and less obvious means. It is, in my opinion, ridiculous to make the claim of high altitude.

It is counter productive to be making these claims. It will put you in the same group as the UFO believers everyone has so much enjoyment making fun of.

Chip

posted 01-02-2002 10:32 AM            

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About 200 heavily armed Marines flew off in helicopters from Kandahar International Airport at dusk Monday toward a location where Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar is believed to be hiding.

Another 200 U.S. Marines set off in the same direction by road later in the night after anti-Taliban leaders postponed sending Afghan troops to the region to fight the Taliban.

Afghan interim Prime Minister Hamid Karzai confirmed that the operation was intended to hunt down Omar in the remote mountains of central Afghanistan in Helmand province.

..."You guys will do fine," an officer told a group of about 50 Marines as they waited to board a CH-46 transport helicopter. "You have the right training. There's anti-Taliban fighters already in place. You guys will go in and get the job done, and everybody's coming back."

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At one point, Rear Adm. Craig Quigley, a senior Pentagon spokesman, denied the Marines had left the base.

"There were no Marines in CH-46s. No Marines left Kandahar today," said Quigley, speaking from U.S. Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., where U.S. military operations in Afghanistan are directed. He also said a separate report that Marines definitely had joined a mission to capture Omar was "just flat wrong."

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posted 01-02-2002 12:31 PM            

It is not unusual especially during this time for reports to be flatly denied by the Command staff. Yes it is lying, but I don't see the relevance to the bigger picture as you will call it.

You are going to say it is just an example of how they lie, or how easily they lie. But the truth is the press, foriegn politicians, and military are frequently releasing information they shouldn't. And we did the same thing to the Brit's. We said the SAS was in the area and performing operations. The Brits got very pissed, they never say when or where the SAS is operating. So even the great conspiracy US Goverment slips up sometimes!!!!

Chip

posted 01-02-2002 03:35 PM            

The example you speak of is because we are involved in a war! The fact that there is "lying" going on is to protect the US soldiers from being ambushed by the Taliban because CNN wants to be first to get a story out. If your son or daughter was in that group of Marines you would not want the goverment to be "honest" when it comes to their deployment...telling the enemy where and when the troops will land.

posted 01-02-2002 10:47 PM            

2. A senior Pentagon spokesman said that no Marines were in CH-46s, that no Marines had left Kandahar and that Marines had not joined a mission to capture Mullah Omar. You suggest that he said these things in order to protect the lives of the Marines in question.

3. I'm saying that when the military tells demonstrable lies (A) it does not fool the enemy and (B) it undermines its own credibility in the eyes of the American people.

posted 01-03-2002 05:24 AM            

3T3 are you saying because of the spine less and cowardly behavior of a politician, you are never going to believe what the military says?? The politicians tell the military what to do. I think you should understand history instead of spouting the liberal mantra of the '60s. It is not the military you should be railing against. We do as we are ordered to do, BY the politicians!!!

As to fooling the enemy, what about the Gulf War? How soon people forget.

As for CNN, the Ted Turner Liberal Facist News Network is a joke. They have this scitzophrenic love/hate relationship with the military. The love wars because thier ratings go up, but in thier hate filled, liberal hearts they would love to see US troops killed! And that whole deal about wearing lapel pins because they were trying to get an interview with bin-laden. They are more the enemy of this country and its people than any of your NWO conspiracies!

Have a nice day!
Chip

posted 01-03-2002 11:02 AM            

I have no problem with fooling the enemy when it's done expertly. If you will recall, during the Gulf War, the news media were under control. If I remember correctly, we didn't have General Schwartzkopf saying one thing while CNN was saying the opposite. If you want to protect the lives of the troops, the thing to do is to keep the media under control. Making people choose between media reports and military reports is not a smart P.R. move.

As for CNN, the Ted Turner Liberal Facist News Network is a joke.

I agree completely. But once they get near the front lines, their reputation for factual accuracy outstrips that of the military. I hate the liberal slant of most of the media. But when they report on the facts, they generally get it right. No amount of lying by military people is going to change that.

3T3 are you saying because of the spine less and cowardly behavior of a politician, you are never going to believe what the military says??

Chip, are you saying that General Westmoreland and other military figures didn't "embroider the truth" regarding Vietnamese troop strength and U.S. casualties in order to increase support for the war back home? He obviously wasn't fooling the North Vietnamese.

I think you should understand history instead of spouting the liberal mantra of the '60s.

History. Are you referring to Eisenhower lying about the U-2? To Nixon lying about the break-in at the Watergate? To Clinton lying about having sexual relations with "that woman"?

Truth is a precious commodity. In the 1960s and early 1970s, I supported the war in Viet Nam. (That wasn't easy on the University of Wisconsin campus, BTW. Remember Mifflin Street? Remember the bombing of Sterling Hall?) It was humiliating to me when I eventually learned that the hippie protesters were right. Young men were being sent to Viet Nam to die because the war enriched the military industrial complex. The old men who ran the war never intended to win it. When political conservatives like myself finally figured out that the war would not be won, it was lost.

posted 01-03-2002 12:34 PM            

Viet-nam was more a political war than a military war. The liberal (news media and the anti war protesters)army, sympathizing with the North Vietnamese intentionally or not, forced a political end to the war. Had the military been given authority to wage the war, it would have ended much diffrently. The NVA and viet cong was never a match for the US. A big deal was made about the Tet offensive, but from a military stand point it was a disaster. But the media claimed it was this huge military victory, what a farce!! Although it was a very bad situation, Khe Sahn was not a Dien Bien Phu! The fire base was never in a true life and death fight for its survival! Airstrikes and the B-52's saw to that!
The Somolia fiasco(lets try the new, lighter, faster army!), and the hostage rescue in Iran. Classic examples of the disasters waiting to happen when politicians dictate a military operation! Both of the Bush presidents understood this. They give the military an objective and turn it over, same with Kosovo, Gulf War, and to a lesser degree Panama and Grenada.

Yes the evil military industrial complex! What about the major liberal networks? (conspiracy)
The health care system? (conspiracy)

It is a little annoying that the blame is put on the military for POLITICAL decisons, Place the blame where it should be placed. The US military, as the saying goes, doesnt want to fight the war, but when ordered to, we follow orders (from the political leadership)

Facts? The so called facts from the news media, is a rare event! There is so much spin and slant in 99% of the news. It is like during the Vietnam war peace protesters in the states were peaceful, until the reporters showed. Then the fighting and trouble started. They deliberately slanted the news to make it appear we were losing the military war.

Please do not even bring up lil Billy Bob Clinton!

Chip