posted 01-06-2002 02:13 PM            

I guess what I really intended by this statement was that you can't expect the truth from everyone. (especially from those here to thwart our efforts) Free speech as long as it is civil should be OK. Those that will lie will do so with our without anyone's blessing.

posted 01-06-2002 04:52 PM            

If I may be so nosy to ask: what is your job title anyway?

I don't want to blow anyones feeling of self importance on this matter, but I would be willing to bet the upper command of USAF could care less what is said here. Not out of having something to hide, but because it doesn't effect thier missions or jobs.

Hmmmm.... and if the real reason for the spraying was announced on the major news media for everyone to know about, how would they feel then? I seem to remember hearing about all the hits at Carnicom's board that were from military personnel... they're were hundreds of them. I believe they do care.

To have a group of people walking outside, looking into the sky, seeing clouds basically, and calling them a goverment plot is what this has all turned into.

Well... sounds to me like we're basically a bunch of "Chicken Littles" here crying the sky is falling. Guess the only believable news is what one hears from the major news media... they're the only ones with any credibility. And of course the government would never lie.

As I have said before, to be taken seriously, credibility is needed. The UFO crowd had lost it long ago,.....My friends and I do laugh at those people who run around saying the aliens are at the door, what do we do.

What would you do if you really saw one in person? Would you stop laughing then, would you tell your friends about your experience? I think you might tell people... but it wouldn't be your friends because the ridicule would become too unbearable and of course that would hurt your reputation with them,... after all they would be laughing at you now. This is why so many people never tell a soul of their experiences.... they don't want people to think they're crazy.

There is no doubt there is a hole in the ozone layer. But the hole in the hypothesis that humans made it was, the first time they looked at the ozone layer, there was a hole! There is no proof it hasn't always been there. It does grow and shrink, but how are we to know it this isnt what it has always done?

Well... I've never seen the hole in the ozone...why should I even believe there is one? I do find it interesting how many scientists have jumped on this issue and devoted time, expertise and resources trying to learn more and then we have not one scientist willing to study the chemtrail issue.

The US and other goverments have conducted illegal experements on the public, IN THE PAST.

Okay since you believe they've done it IN THE PAST, .... what makes you think they couldn't be doing it now?

As to my trollish comments, I am not religious by any means, but I have read more than a few post by individuals who are making this cause sound like a holy crusade. And they are the soldiers for this crusade. I am more than a little offended by the comparison, as any person of the Book should be!

This is Webster's definition of crusade:.......medieval Christian war to recover the Holy Land from the Saracens: a campaign against any evil or vice: Well, yes I would say this is a campaign against something that has the appearance of evil or vice to most of us here. But... I don't think we qualify as fanatics yet ( definition of fanaticism: violent enthusiasm) since none of us has died for the chemtrail cause yet, though there may be some that have died from respiratory causes related to the spraying. I have no desire to die from the effects of the spraying or become some kind of unwitting government guinea pig or lab rat, thanks anyway

posted 01-06-2002 05:50 PM            

catnip..."Hmmmm.... and if the real reason for the spraying was announced on the major news media for everyone to know about, how would they feel then? I seem to remember hearing about all the hits at Carnicom's board that were from military personnel... they're were hundreds of them. I believe they do care."

NIPR.MIL 10 1/2 HOUR VISIT
Clifford E Carnicom
April 01 2001

Let it be know that on Mar 31 2001 at 08:54 MST NIPR.MIL, the United States Department of Defense Network Operations, completed a visit to this website, www.carnicom.com. The duration of this uninterrupted visit was approximately 10 1/2 hours and it involved an inspection or review of 53 web pages within this same internet site.

VISITORS TO WWW.CARNICOM.COM
Let it be noted that some of the recent visitors to this web site include:
(Let it also be noted that United States government computer systems are to be used for official purposes only.)

1. Desert Research Institute in Nevada (weather modification research institution) (repeat visits)
2. Fort Lewis Army Military Base in the state of Washington (home of special forces air squadron)
3. Lockheed Martin (aviation and space defense contractor) (repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)
4. Los Alamos National Laboratory (repeat visit)
5. Allergan Pharmaceutical Corporation (Allergy Pharmaceutical Research Company)
6. Alliant Techsystems (Space and Strategic Defense Systems contractor)
7. Raytheon Defense Systems (Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
8. BOEING AIRCRAFT COMPANY (100 visits minimum)
9. United States Defense Logistics Agency (supplies and support to combat troops)
10. Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Tuscon AZ (home of 355th Wing)(repeat visits)(repeat repeat visits)(repeat repeat repeat visit)
11. Dept of Defense Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station
12. U.S. Naval Sea Systems Command
13. Western Pacific Region of the Federal Aviation Administration, Lawndale CA. (repeat visit)(repeat visit) (repeat visit)
14. National Aeronautics and Space Administration Langley Research Center (10 visits minimum)
15. United States Environmental Protection Agency (20 visits minimum)
16. St. Vincent Hospital, Santa Fe New Mexico
17. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON
18. United States Department of the Treasury (repeat visit)(repeat visit)
19. United States Department of Defense Educational Activity
20. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE
21. United States Federal Aviation Administration
22. United States Naval Research Center, Washington D.C.
23. Rockwell-Collins (U.S. defense contractor)
24. Honeywell (U.S. Defense Contractor)(repeat visit)
25. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton OH (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)
26. Kadena Air Force Base, Okinawa, Japan
27. Camp Pendleton, United States Marine Corps (mandatory US Defense anthrax vaccination program described at www.cpp.usmc.mil)(repeat visit)(repeat visit)
28. Ames Research Center, NASA (one of primary missions is to research ASTROBIOLOGY, i.e., the study of life in outer space) (repeat visit)
29. Space Dynamics Laboratory, Utah State University, North Logan, Utah
30. Merck (Pharmaceutical Products and Health Research)(repeat visit)
31. McClellan Air Force Base, Sacramento, CA. (The Sacramento Air Logistics Center at McClellan Air Force Base, California performs depot maintenance on the KC-135 Stratotanker aircraft and is heavily involved in space and communications-electronics.)(repeat visit)
32. TRW (U.S. Defense Contractor) (repeat visit)
33. Teledyne Brown Engineering (U.S. Defense Contractor)
34. United States Navy Medical Department
35. Air National Guard, Salt Lake City, Utah
36. Monsanto Company(Chemical, Pesticide, and Pharmaceutical products) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visits)
37. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
38. Arco Chemical Corporation
39. Sundstrand Aerospace (U.S. Defense Contractor)
40. National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration Aeronomy Laboratory (conducts fundamental research on the chemical and physical processes of the Earth's atmosphere)
41. Allied Signal Corporation(chemical, aerospace, energy ) (repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit)
42. Aviation Weather Center, National Oceanic and Atmospherics Administration
43. United States Army Medical Department(repeat visit)
44. Nasa Goddard Space Flight Center
45. Applied Physics Laboratory, a research division of John Hopkins University, which supports the U.S. Defense Department
46. United States Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA
47. HEADQUARTERS, UNITED STATES ARMY, THE PENTAGON
48. United States General Accounting Office(The General Accounting Office is the investigative arm of Congress. GAO performs audits and evaluations of Government programs and activities.)
49. Bristol-Myers Squibb Company(Pharmaceutical Research and Development)
50. United States Naval Criminal Investigative Service(A worldwide organization responsible for conducting criminal investigations and counterintelligence for the Department of the Navy and for managing naval security programs. )
51. National Computer Security Center (NCSE) (Involved in advanced warfare simulation)
52. The Mayo Clinic(repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit) (repeat repeat repeat visit)
53. The Federal Judiciary(home of the United States Supreme Court)
54. United States Federal Emergency Management Agency(Controls a comprehensive, risk-based, emergency management program of mitigation, preparedness, response and recovery.)(repeat visit)
55. United States Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane IN(repeat visit)(repeat repeat visit)
56. United States National Guard Public Affairs Web Access(no public access to this site)
57. UNITED STATES SENATE (repeat visit) (repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat visit)(repeat repeat repeat repeat visit)
58. Headquarters, United States Air Force Reserve Command
59. Kaiser Permanente health organization
60. United States Naval Warfare Assessment Station
61. Air University, United States Air Force
62. United States Naval Research Laboratory(repeat visit)
63. Enterprise Products Partners L.P.(MTBE production)
64. United States Navy Naval Air Weapons Stations, China Lake CA
65. California Pacific Medical Center
66. United States Defense Information Systems Agency (mission: "To plan, engineer, develop, test, manage programs, acquire, implement, operate, and maintain information systems for C4I and mission support under all conditions of peace and war." )
67. Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, New England
68. San Francisco Department of Public Health
69. BJC Health System, St. Louis, Missouri
70. United States Open Source Information Systems(OSIS)(an unclassified confederation of systems serving the intelligence community with open source intelligence) OSIS sites include: (AIA) Air Intelligence Agency, Kelly AFB, San Antonio, TX IC-ROSE (CIA) Central Intelligence Agency, Reston, VA (DIA) Defense Intelligence Agency, Washington, D.C. (NSA) National Security Agency, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (NIMA) National Imagery & Mapping AgencyFairfax, VA (NAIC) National Air Intelligence Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH (NGIC) National Ground Intelligence Center, Charlottesville, VA (MCIC) Marine Corps Intelligence Center, Quantico, VA (NMIC) National Maritime Intelligence Center, Office of Naval Intelligence, Suitland, MD (ISMC) Intelink Service Management Center, Ft. Meade, Laurel, MD (repeat visit)
71. New Mexico Department of Health
72. United States Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command (SPAWAR)
73. United States McMurdo Research Station, Antartica
74. Orlando Regional Healthcare System, Florida
75. United States Andersen Air Force Base, Guam
76. United States Misawa Air Base, Japan
77. United States Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii
78. United States Osan Air Force Base, Korea
79. Royal Air Force, Lakenheath, Suffolk
80. United States Scott Air Force Base
81. United States F.E. Warren Air Force Base
82. United States Air Force News Agency
83. United States Langley Air Force Base (repeat visit)
84. United States Tinker Air Force Base
85. United States McConnell Air Force Base
86. United States Charleston Air Force Base
87. United States Randolph Air Force Base
88. United States Air Force Reserve Command
89. United States Seymour Johnson Air Force Base
90. United States Bolling Air Force Base, Washington DC
91. Keesler Air Force Base, MS
91. United States Hill Air Force Base
92. United States Vandenberg Air Force Base, California
93. United States Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota
94. United States Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska
95. ANDREWS AIR FORCE BASE, PROUD HOME OF AIR FORCE ONE(repeat visit)
96. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(repeat visit)
(Visitors 75-96 arrived within a 24 hour period 092399)
97. United StatesCannon Air Force Base, New Mexico
98. United States McQuire Air Force Base
99. United States Beale Air Force Base (home of the U-2 fleet of reconnaisance aircraft)
100. United States Department of Justice - Federal Bureau of Prisons
101. Metnet - United States Navy (associated with weather reporting system and SPAWAR)
102. TRADOC - United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, Fort Monroe, VA
103. Newsweek Magazine
104. United States Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
105. Massachusetts Medical Society, Owner - Publisher : New England Journal of Medicine
106. OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE : THE OFFICE OF WILLIAM S. COHEN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (repeat visit)
107. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(repeat repeat visit)
108. UNITED STATES JOINT FORCES COMMAND (reports to US Secretary of Defense)(repeat visit)
109. Naval Warfare Assessment Station, Corona CA
110. Los Angeles County Emergency Operations Center
111. Commander in Chief, United States Pacific Fleet, United States Navy
112. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON
113. Defense Logistics Agency, Administrative Support Center in Europe
114. United Stated Department of Defense Network Information Center, Vienna, VA(repeat visits)
115. Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army
116. Headquarters, United States Air Force, The Pentagon (repeat visit)
117. U.S. News and World Report
118. Naval Air Warfare Center - Aircraft Division (repeat visits)
119. New Zealand Parliament
120. HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, THE PENTAGON(multiple repeat visits)
121. NIPR - Department of Defense Network Operations (NIPRNet); The Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) has established a number of NIPRNet gateways to the Internet,
which will be protected and controlled by firewalls and other technologies.)(repeat visits)
122. Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, CO (home of NORAD and SPACECOM)
123. Raytheon (visits immediately after introduction of HAARP implications)
124. United States Army War College
125. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
126. Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
http://www.carnicom.com/visitors.htm

I wonder if the Peterson AFB visitor #122 is Col. Dan Phillips?

And Boeing Aircraft Company #8 (100 visits minimum) is the ever so polite Mr. Duncan Kunz?

Very interesting list.

As indicated by this list, and .mil visit to this site, that there is indeed an interest in this supposed non-issue of chemtrails by military officials, whom I pressume are all visiting during their lunch breaks and off time...unless of course these are official visits.

posted 01-06-2002 07:39 PM            

I just got thru reading a really informative bit of information... I see LWR has already posted this on a separate thread..... but I've got a few comments to make here.

Nilkin:... this might be of interest to you..

I did some thinking and the amount of material needed for spraying to get to the ground? I know the C-130 spray planes need to be at very low level to have anything of measurable levels on the ground.

Perhaps you should take the time to read this document..... it has information about how much material, (listed by the tons) would be necessary to decrease world temperatures and counteract the effects of global warming and how often this material would have to be released. Also how long the particles would hang around in the atmosphere and how many booster applications needed and where to apply them.
http://rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf

This article mentioned the use of alumina particles.... hmmm.... maybe that's the source of some aluminum metals found in rain samples lately.

I read one part where they even talked about using some type of aluminum balloons to bring their sun blocking particles up into the right level of the atmosphere... and even launching these balloons from some remote desert location. Then the balloons would of course disintegrate when they reached a higher level in the atmosphere and turn into aluminum dust. This of course was to ensure there were no polluting balloon materials left around to foul the environment.

If folks can get through all the scientific wording it's very worth while reading this report.

posted 01-07-2002 01:15 AM            

"I didn't know reindeer antlers grew from spores? Posted on August 25, 2001 at 09:24:59 PM by jayreynolds

good save, Deb. Larry is definitely a gullible one, Kim too. The real question is, is someone feeding this stuff to them, and why, or are they just making it up themselves as they go along? The sky-sparklie guy, haarpman, and a few others seem actually too stupid to make this stuff up themselves, but eveidently plenty of morons are available to help spread it.

Jay "

posted 01-07-2002 08:18 AM            

2: Yes, I believe they are Chicken Littles.

3: About the ozone hole, the scientist's jumped on it for a political agenda. This agenda is anti-industry, tree huggers. These are the same scientists who are trying to scare people just the same way politicians, like the liberals scare people. Like saying tax cuts will lead to reduced S.S payments.

4: Military personel are not a separate species from civilians. They were civilians, their families are usually civilians. The military has most of the same insanity and types of people as in the civilian world.

Chip

posted 01-07-2002 01:02 PM            

I re-read your list of government agencies and major corporations who've been logged by carnicom as visitors to his board. I can only speak for for myself, of course; but I assume the other visitors have their own reasons for visiting.

In my case, I make a point of visiting a lot of chemtrail websites daily. I can cruise over, read the posts that interest me, and go somewhere else in a couple of minutes (that's the advantage of a cable modem or a T-1 connection). I do it primarily for amusement purposes, and have told many of my colleagues about it.

There are now several of my friends -- mostly retired military aviators and aircraft maintainers -- who also cruise by. Most of them, admittedly, do it for a laugh. One of them, a retired Army colonel named Dave, said that getting aviation-related insights from carnicom and the people on his site is like reading a book on marital techniques written by a Catholic priest.

But the point is that I am not the only person from Boeing that comes by. Indeed, a regular poster at carnicom's site, a Mr. Wisequakker, is (or was) a Boeing employee himself. Another person very active in the Chemtrail community is a retired IBM employee who, coincidentally, worked at the same facility I did thirty years ago in Gaithersburg, Maryland.

Now as far as military sites visiting chemtrail sites -- I can only conjecture. My guess is that most of them, especially the ones involved in aviation, read it for amusement value only. (I doubt that they are monitoring these sites for punitive purposes; after all, no chemtrail proponent that I am aware of has "disappeared under mysterious circumstances"!)

However, given that some of the posters on the Chemtrail sites display what can be considered as extreme anti-military, anti-government, anti-American, etc. biases, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the readers of the information get extremely angry. This is their right, of course; just as it's the right of people on these boards (myself included) to pretty much post whatever we please. And I think that most of the government people know this and respect your right to believe whatever you choose. That's the reason most people are in the military in the first place -- to protect our right to bad-mouth them.

That's most of them. I don't know about the political police types like the FBI, Secret Service, Homeland Security, etc., but I don't trust them that much. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more zealous ones might treat some of the unstable posters as a potential national security threat.

But that's just conjecture on my part.

Regards,

posted 01-07-2002 01:23 PM            

I do it primarily for amusement purposes
As I when I visit Mav's board Seems Col. Dan has taken an active interest in my sex life...go figure.

Now as far as military sites visiting chemtrail sites -- I can only conjecture. My guess is that most of them, especially the ones involved in aviation, read it for amusement value only.
Which makes it a little suspicious when .mils say they are here to "help" us. One has to wonder...

(I doubt that they are monitoring these sites for punitive purposes; after all, no chemtrail proponent that I am aware of has "disappeared under mysterious circumstances"!)
No, but TintDude's chemtrail pictures have vanished from his site, right after the black helicopters paid him a visit...the government helped him along real good.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the readers of the information get extremely angry
Not as angry as I when I can't find the sun nor the color blue in the sky.

Good day Mr. Kunz.

posted 01-08-2002 05:13 AM            

Thats right folks. The blanketed sky shields our eyes from viewing the REAL LIFE Star Wars.

WAR IN SPACE

Light polution will cause the skies to become what you are talking about long before any spraying will.

posted 01-08-2002 08:08 AM            

Your always asking for opinions, here's one.

As pro military (ex-mil and mil family), pro America,(flag waver before it was fashionable) pro government although I do have issues. It needs to be kept in check and the ultimate power left in the hands of the people, they stop continuing to strip away at the constitution...2nd amendment
especailly, they quit over taxing and burdening the business owner (job creators)only to waste the money on bloated entitlement programs, you get the picture.

I can only think of one maybe two posters from here and carnicoms that are anti-mil or anti-american...For Pete's sake you would find that many in any group of people. You want anti-mil and anti-americans to chase look at the Klintons! Daschle! There are many more in our own government and the socialists take over of academia then you'll ever find on chemtrail boards. We want to know what the heck is going on in our skies. NWO, ETs, Weather Mod, EMF and Haarp theories make us wackos in your eyes but don't count all those .mil and .gov visits for entertainment. You don't know those people or their intent.

If you are here for entertainment how do you explain your proclamation that you are here to help?

posted 01-08-2002 08:54 AM            

Your moniker should be KingofDrift...Your statement that some posters are VERY anti-mil. gov. and such just isn't so IMO. Being anti NWO, and UN is being for he sovereignty of our nation, think there's plenty of that here.

posted 01-08-2002 10:56 AM            

A while back I corresponded with Rusty about estimated size of sun-cruisers, and was told thought to be mercury-sized. IMO there is much going on up there, especially solar-wise. Listen, thanks for bringing this thread back on track.

It seemed to have drifted soon after posted, looking pack to page one. You have to wonder about topics that are soon side-tracked. Must be striking a chord...

I have many pictures of interesting cruisers and other solar anomalies.

Fascinating.

--------------------------

posted 01-08-2002 11:16 AM            

Read my post alittle while ago, I did attempt, not too hard, to get back on subject.

As to
reguarding the subject being side tracked, it was well off course when I joined in, Delphi knocked the topic off course. Why not give him a cyber slap to the wrist? Because he is a believer.

Have a great day, and enjoy the glorious blue skys!!

Chip

((don't tell that to the boulders!!))