posted 12-26-2001 10:58 PM            

Thanks for your insights on contrails.

posted 12-27-2001 08:23 PM            

I mean that sincerely Dumbfounded, because your credentials as a pilot and your familiarity with contrails are valuable tools but ground observation does lend to a completely different view rather than being part of the traffic so to speak.

Instead of all jumping at once with a zillion questions, let's just take it one at a time and look first at watcher's query, OK? It is a very valid question. I've witnessed these concentrated efforts on one area many times, including today.

posted 12-28-2001 12:29 PM            

It is a one page summary I put together on CHEMTRAILS. The online interview is still active at this time. Hyperlinks lead to supporting material. Bear in mind that the government has already ADMITTED to spraying, they just say it's for global warming. The Spotlight newspaper confirmed 4 different military programs involving spraying different material. 1. Weather modification, 2. Biological testing, 3. 3d Radar type imaging, 4. ???? can't remember.

posted 12-30-2001 05:17 PM            

"Why would there be planes STAYING in an area and turning around and coming back and forth, they are not going on but are staying in an area and the trails are being laid. Why would this happen?"

First let me say that unless I'm standing next to you or see a useful picture than it is hard for me to say for sure what is going on. I do know this though. Military tankers fly circular patterns during their mission. I live near (Relatively that is.) to a military air training area. I've seen the circular patterns and actually have seen fighters following the tanker around the circular pattern. As a matter of fact in this instance in particular the tanker was leaving a contrail and the fighters weren't. Ah huh!! You say Well I don't think that observation itself proves "chemtrails". I think what it does prove is the tanker was probably using a very high power setting (Full of fuel, it was refueling 5-7 fighters, can't remember for sure.) and the fighters, being fighters, were using a low power setting to "keep up". Typical jet cockpits show the EGT or Exhaust Gas Temperature of each jet engine or TGT Turbine Gas Temperature. They are essentially the same but the TGT is measured before the bypass air is added to the exhaust thus it is generally hotter. Typical temperatures in the DC-9 during normal cruise are 420C. Now if I decide to fly at a lower speed I may pull power back to save fuel and maybe then the TGT is 390C. If I get told to slow considerably or decide to descend I would pull the power to idle and then the temp might be 300C. These are all approximate but close due to the fact that daily we do engine trend readings....we read and record this and other data for the mechanics. This, I believe, explains the "starting and stopping" of the "chemtrails". It's not unusual to be asked to slow to avoid holding and in that instance I would pull the power to idle and once I slowed reapply it to maintain speed. Also, remember the fact that military planes don't fly nearly as much as a commercial jetliner. So! you say. Well the reason that matters is jet fuel and water are approximately the same density unlike gasoline...again you say, So! Well, water doesn't necessarily sink to the bottom of jet fuel...it suspends. It gets mixed in. That water could add to the contrail of the jet because it just gets pumped through the engine with the fuel. Commercial jets are used almost constantly to make money...there fuel tanks are very clean. Military jets can sit for a long time in-between missions. I DO NOT have any evidence or experience to back up those claims though...just makes sense though with my knowledge of the planes themselves.

Another, less likely but still possible explanation is holding pattern for busy arrivals. Almost all large airports have arrivals and departures that ALL planes follow in and out. This keeps things orderly. Along those arrivals there are generally holding patterns depicted to show where a pilot could expect to hold if things get backed up. These patterns are oblong and circular in shape but usually at lower altitudes...but not always! Occasionally you will start to hold and then be given decent in the hold so you are able to save fuel. If I can figure out how I will take a picture of a typical arrival and show these points out to you all. Well I have the pictures now but can't get them on...hmmmm. Flying a jet is easier! Oh well they are here and so am I...I'll be back Thanks for the interest!

DF

posted 01-11-2002 05:53 PM            

Thank you so much for your information! I am eagerly reading with an open mind, and I look forward to seeing more unbiased information in the future.

posted 01-12-2002 06:57 PM            

This past summer I came from Clearwater, Fl to Arkansa for a visit. My friend and I were shopping in a health food store in Harrison,Ar and the lady working there began to tell us about chemtrails and her concerns regarding them. She mentioned anthrax innoculations. It was the first for me or my friend to hear of this phenomenon. She mentioned that the activity seemed to occur, in that area, earling morning or around 5:00 p.m. and the pattern was usually an X. Well, later that day we're further North of Harrison swimming in Norfork lake. I look up and directly overhead is this huge X in the sky!! It appearred to be a very deliberate X at that. I tell you, it was a very strange feeling that my friend and I shared. We both felt caught with no place to run for cover. Anyway, we began to look around and saw that there were three other Xs in the sky over this lake area. Well, over the next few days of our travels through NW Ar we saw a number of these Xs overhead and we, like the lady in the health food store, started to get a bit concerned about this.

In Oct we moved from Fl where we lived only a few miles from MacDill AF Base to Ar near Ft.Chaffee Military Reservation. Ft. Chaffee is inactive expcept for National Guard training that occurs mostly in the summer.However, after 9-11 this reservation has been very active and there is an Army Air National Guard here too (We hear and feel the bombs exploding and the machine gun fire throughout the day - the house literally shakes). There's an awful lot of activity in the skys around here and the chemtrails are abundant. They seem to go all day and well into the night (I've seen an eerie grid of "chemtrails" appear over Fayetteville, Ar in the light of a full moon).

I moved to Fl from Or in 93' and missing the mountains of Or took to watching the incredible skys and clouds above me as a substitute. So, for the last 9 years I've developed the habit of looking up a great deal and the sky, in my opinion based on my observations over the last 9 yrs, has indeed changed. These contrails, chemtrails...whatever have most definitely increased in number by many times and all these grids,Xs,stacks of 5 to 6 trails on top of each other, etc. has not been the norm. There has been a change.

It is empirical that a mystery will tend to stick one's attention just as any unanswered question will. When you keep asking the question but not getting any answer sometimes "answer hunger" will ensue and one tends to pull in and accept any answer to satisfy this hunger. Hence, you get some pretty "out there" sort of answers floating around at times that sometimes can be quite damaging. I think the key to keeping answer hunger at bay is to be able to continually fix and unfix data as it comes in and gets evaluated against other data (I certainly did not learn this concept in school. In school I was taught to only accept data from the "authoritative figure", never ask questions outside the lines, never evaluate anything and perponderance of agreement always rules - what a bunch of BS!). Also, it's very important to keep a data "pending bin" available to wait and see. A piece of seemingly nonsensical data may, when strung with other bits of seemingly nonsensical data suddenly form a picture to reveal an important piece of the puzzle.

In regards to chemtrails, I have a substantial pending bin at this time. My fixed stable datum is: Something has changed in the sky. Keep observing,listening and evaluating until I get the true answer and always maintain my integrity throughout the process. In the meantime, I do attempt to direct the attention of others around me to this peculiarity of patterns in our sky.

This is my first time to originate in this forum. It's a marvelous place to get a myraid of viewpoints on this phemomenon.

posted 01-15-2002 08:50 AM            

I found this site a few days ago while reading up on the 9.11.01 attacks. I followed thru this post (DF) and the replys. I like the messages here and would like to contribute.

I grew up in northern minnesota. Deep in the woods (superior national forest) and still reside in duluth on lake superior. As one weatherman puts it, the weather here is extreme and he loves his job. It has to do with the climate and lake superior. Anyway, my father was a private pilot. There is also a national guard base in Duluth that has f-16's.

I agree with DF on some of the contrail information. Living here, at an early age, I began to question the "white lines". My teachers taught me about contrails. It was something I would bug my closest friend about daily. Don't ask me why. The reason I questions the contrails was simple. There is alot of high altitude flights coming over from different areas of the world. Those contrails disappear and are very common.

Also, growing up away from the city deep in the forest, the national guard would routinely fly over and practice above my father's land. We lived on a lake with other families and some actually protested the flights because of the altitude. At that time they would fly low and fast. Also, from time to time they would 'dogfight' overhead. I guess my point is simple. I have expienced all kinds of aircraft and seen a great many contrail.

However, I can add to this with a little information.

First. Some of the pictures here are not to accurate. I believe something is going on, but it makes the entire site look horrible by having one single picture that is, simply put, not of chemtrail or chemtrail activity. Those I am speaking of are where the "chemtrail" is coming from the engines. If it is a closeup, the lines are clearly not chemtrail, but contrail. Unless there is a massive conspiracy that includes jet propulsion (sp?) and fuel additives, I think this issue makes our topics and ideas look foolish as a whole. Replys?

Second: The weather up here has significantly changed in the last 4 years. When I see motorcycles in January in Duluth MN, well, who can argue? The level of the great lake has dropped 6 to 8 inches. That is a lot of water considering the size of lake superior.

Third: The minnesota frog story. Mutant frogs have been reported north of minneapolis for some time now - say since early 90's. Minnesota is known for its pristine environment, but these frogs are strange looking and clearly been genentically altered. Since they grow from basic water deposits, well, who can say. Perhaps this is off base for the topic, but it stands out.

Fourth: I clearly have seen chemtrails over this area. If, someone somewhere, was to experiment with the weather, this area would be perfect because of the great lake. Many have been over lake superior itself as in one picture in the satelite gallery. I plan on, if possible in the future, grabbing pictures of this activity. As a truck driver, I travel all over the state and have seen chemtrails.

I suggest one thing. I don't know if it has been suggest and follow'd thru with, but here it goes. Can we set up a national map with the locations of those interested in the chemtrail controversy. That enables us to grid the usa, and a trail left over duluth heading south could be reported in minneapolis for example. As we report areas and directions we can correlate the winds at altitudes (faa flight weather if i am correct) and follow up on possible "spraying" activity and weather phenon that occurs. Just an idea.

I thru a lot out, but I hope it was helpful and not too long.

thanks,