posted 07-25-2001 12:11 AM            

Just trying to be helpful, Carl. As always...

posted 07-25-2001 12:48 AM            

Sorry for sounding condescending. If you really want condescending, reference my reply to your posts about advocating violence against me or other members of the military.

Chem11-

Quote:

"Yes. I have seen the exact same ultra- persistent contrails on an almost daily basis, starting in 1998. I find it 'odd' that they turned up in a satellite photo in 1991 during a miltary operation over SA and Iraq. Actually it's not odd at all, it's highly persuasive evidence that this is a military operation. It's highly persuasive evidence that this has nothing to do with JP8+100 jet fuel."

Not "odd" at all? And who is "they?"

O.K., so what you are saying is that the contrails in this picture are not what I say they are, and rather what you say they are, namely chemtrails. Also, you are saying that the only reason that these are chemtrails is that they are persistent. Correct? Please answer with a YES or a NO. No elaboration other than what has aleady been made is necessary by you. I wholeheartedly disagree with it based on me having been there and you having not been there, but let's pretend that we're both looking at a photo of somewhere that neither one of us has been.

I understand that you are a free-thinking individual. Now, sorry to categorize you with the other "chemmies," but who is right.....

You, by saying that chemtrails go back as far as 1991 but you hadn't seen them until 1998...

Others who claim that chemtrails are the random "start-stop" contrails......

OR, others who are now claiming that weather manipulation is now taking other forms such as a water-soaking powder, strange-shaped clouds, "sky sparklies," moonbows, sickness despite clear skies, claims of spraying even by planes that leave no trails, radar "blobs," powder found on the BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN, low-flying "kites" flying by the droves over major cities yet seen by only one person, people that take pictures of obvious commercial aircraft and claim that they are obviously seeing a chemplane because of heavy contrails, and so many other forgettable "eyewitness" accounts.

I've seen just about everything possible here and on Cliff's being blamed on "chemtrails." I wouldn't be surprised one day to see some lost soul blaming chemtrails for getting her pregnant.

So, which is it.....all of the above, just some of the above, or none of the above? I'd like to know your opinion on which of these are junk and which are legitimate in your mind. I've seen all of these theories, yet none of them have been challenged by you or anyone else. These forums are havens for speculation and unverifiable accusations.

Silence speaks volumes, and in my mind it's acceptance. The eagerness to accept the "fringe" theories and accusations without comment are very telling.

Your allegation that the picture above is of chemtrails is very revealing to me. I not only disagree with you about this, I find myself calling all of your other eyewitness accounts into question as well because I am so certain that this picture has nothing to do with chemtrails at all.

posted 07-25-2001 12:58 AM            

lol !

I enjoy his writing...some of his perspectives on things in general, makes 'chemtrails' look like a bad comic book....Disneyland of the Gods is another of his books I have read excerpts of....his take on UFO's is really interesting...

I found a quote from the 1st CRS report on contrails...

"An increase over the past few years in the incidence of condensation
trails(contrails)left behind by aircraft in the skies across the
United States has prompted news stories and Internet discussions
proposing a variety of explanations for the incidence of contrails
and their potential effects on the public. As a result, we have
received a number of requests for information on contrails. The
increased incidence of contrails in the United States appears to
be linked to an increase in the level of air traffic. Research
suggests that contrails may have a climatological impact on the
environment. Allegations have been made that the increase in
contrails is due to military experiments on the population.
However, these conjectures remain unsubstantiated."

Congressional Research Service's report to Congress on contrails

T/S

posted 07-25-2001 01:20 AM            

Kick butt and take names

Alls fair in love and EMP

Ever play cowboys and indians?

Come on indians, time for payback

Lets go play with a Haarp

Up against the wall

Take no prisoners

Don't give up the ship/country

Damn the EMP, full speed ahead!

I have not yet begun to fight

I shall return

I am afraid we have awakened a sleeping giant

Ask not what you country can do for you, but rather, ask how can we take it back

To sleep the sleep of the innocent, is a waste of time
Time to empty the cat box/take out the trash

Cockroachs/Other vermin: Ve hafe vays of dealing vis dat

Nuc'em let God sort 'em out

posted 07-25-2001 02:03 AM            

In all seriousness there is more slightly more instigation than information going on here...

posted 07-25-2001 02:31 AM            

Maverick, if you feel you are being treated unfairly, please feel free to speak up. I am being most sincere in this request.

posted 07-25-2001 03:06 AM            

You asked who 'they' were. They refers to the ultra-persistent 'contrails'...

quote:

---

... you are saying that the only reason that these are chemtrails is that they are persistent. Correct? Please answer with a YES or a NO. No elaboration other than what has aleady been made is necessary by you.

---

No.

quote:

---

...others who are now claiming that weather manipulation is now taking other forms such as a water-soaking powder, strange-shaped clouds, "sky sparklies," moonbows, sickness despite clear skies, claims of spraying even by planes that leave no trails, radar "blobs," powder found on the BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN, low-flying "kites" flying by the droves over major cities yet seen by only one person, people that take pictures of obvious commercial aircraft and claim that they are obviously seeing a chemplane because of heavy contrails, and so... I'd like to know your opinion on which of these are junk and which are legitimate in your mind.

---

'Water soaking powder'- well documented, publicized and commercially available.

'Moonbows'- I think you are referring to the oily corona which I have only observed on heavy spray days, and around the sun. There was a series of rather pronounced artificial coronas last month here in Seattle. The local news said they were a rare phenomena caused by warm, rising air(?) and occured only about twelve times a year. I had never seen one before the spraying began, never seen one on a 'clear' day and have counted twelve in the last two months. Someone is obviously very confused regarding the facts of this phenomena, and it isn't me.

Sky sparklies- haven't tried the Q-beam experiment yet, but the still-frames definatley caught my eye.

Sickness despite clear skies... I myself became seriously ill for three weeks after being exposed to heavy dose of CT's. I was sick for three weeks, some of those days were clear. The symtoms were quite similar to GWI. Co-incidence? I doubt it. Highly.

Radar blobs- jury's still out.

Powder at the bottom of the ocean- It was a lake actually. Again no direct observation on my part, but highly questionable with regards to chemtrail activity and for obvious reasons.

'Kites'- Never seen 'em.

Commercial aircraft- I've yet to see a commercial aircraft dispense an ultra-persistent 'contrail'. Falls under disinformation, IMHO.

Phew. That's all of 'em, I believe (hope).

posted 07-25-2001 09:51 AM            

And another: http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03975292__

http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US03975292__ http://www.landings.com/_landings/pages/companies.html http://www.arches.uga.edu/~wbi/research.html

This last one is a design from our friend Cy

Here is yet another, RTW gave me the info. I have tried to access it but have no luck. Perhaps you will have better results than I.

posted 07-25-2001 11:47 PM            

No, Chem11, I don't feel like I'm being treated unfairly. I should be counting my blessings that I'm allowed to post anywhere in this forum despite my beliefs (or lack thereof.) Ask LTC8K6 if he feels like he's being treated fairly, or Toxdoc, or Seeker for that matter. This truly is a ghetto, where the lowly "debunkers" and their opinions are trapped, and the "chemmies" come and go as they please. It's a good idea to have this area of the forum, don't get me wrong, but opening up other forums such as "freeform" to them would give them a bit more ability to step outside of this ring every once in a while to answer the inevitable challenge from the peanut gallery.

Thanks for answering my questions. I know that there were a lot of them, but here's a few that made me want to comment on them.

Once again, you are saying that the picture above of the Gulf War is of "chemtrails." Now, I know I didn't need elaboration from you, but I'll ask you to explain why this is a picture of chemtrails, and in addition I'd like to know why you'd completely reject a plausible, verifiable explanation to make the rather large leap to calling these lines seen in the sky from hundreds of miles away "chemtrails." That plausible, verifiable explanation is my own, and it is based on my experiece over there and where different airborne assets are placed when a war is being fought. Please tell me, based on your experience in where to place combat and support assets in a theater (or any other experience that you may have,) why my explanation has come up short with you.

Be prepared to come up with more than "I know what chemtrails look like and these are chemtrails." No way. Not from space. But, I get the feeling that you are still going to use the above sentence to explain why these are chemtrails, and that will be the extent of your scientific methodology. Oops, I forgot to add a post or two from Rense about chemtrails and Gulf War Illness.

I don't know what you are seeing in the skies over Seattle. I'm not there. But I know that what you are seeing in this photo are not chemtrails. If these are not chemtrails, I deduce that you may be making errors in your everyday observations as well. Nothing personal.

Here's a few more comments about your answers. I also still find it hard to believe that you are still so accepting of every little conspiracy theory to come along yet brush off credible explanations. Not once did you even try to refute any of the above "conspiracies," no matter how outlandish some of them may be.

Moonbows- Sorry, I've seen them since I was a little kid. They are caused by high upper-level humidity and a bright, full moon. Ask any meteorologist.

Commercial aircraft- Just hop on over to Cliff's board and look up Kanuck's post on his "Chem-Sprayer" that he caught on tape. He was very certain that he was seeing a strange new plane with several different modifications, and of course it was leaving millions of gallons of barium in it's wake. As it turns out, his picture was very obviously an UNmodified Northwest Airlines 747-400. I posted a graphic on my own board that clearly shows this to be the case. Of course, the only logical answer to the conspiracy theorists is that Northwest Airlines is then obviously involved in the operation. The answer to a rational thinker would be quite different, like the plane is leaving normal contrails. This will never be the route taken by many here and on Cliff's, because it is always easier to take the denial one step farther than to admit when you're wrong. Sound familiar?

Well, good luck with your Wiccan-hating friend. I'ver also got a few questions for him, like if he was one of the first Wiccans in the U.S. Army, how can he allege that Wicca is practiced a lot in the military? I see a lot of contradiction there. Either that, or he started it and helped make it what it is today.

Now, on to another post made here recently----

David, David, David. You are being selectively illiterate when you read your own posts now. Since you were so good at pulling a sentence out of my post and feebly attempting to spin it in your direction, let me show you how it's done.

Here's your quote that I feel most threatened by:

"Those boys in blue have nothing but our best interest in mind. And speaking of minds, does the word FRY sound familiar? Gives a whole new meaning to the words TRAITORS/TRAITOROUS ACTIVITY/TREASON/TREASONOUS ACTIVITY/ENEMIES OF THE STATE/DEFILERS OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA/ AND ENEMY.
Now the question is who is going to protect us from them?? NO ONE. LOCK AND LOAD"

Hmm.....correct me if I'm wrong, but if I read verbatim what you posted above, I am gathering that the folks in the Air Force (Boys in Blue)are traitors, enemies of the state, defilers of the constitution, and your enemy. Also, I see that you mention loading up your gun and putting a bullet in the chamber (lock and load) in reference to these same individuals. I understand that you are talking defense in this sentence, but when you also say "do unto them prior to them doing unto us," then your post takes on a whole new meaning for me.

Now, I am in the Air Force and probably the one of the more familiar members (albeit as anonymous as possible) of the service to the many who post and lurk here. Since your post was directed against the Boys in Blue, of which I am proud member, then I am going to take offense to it. I'm also going to take what you say literally, not because you personally mean it that way, but because some schizophrenic with an agenda is reading your posts. In addition, my personal information is really not that hard to figure out if someone really wanted it. Put two and two together, and presto! A psycho idiot climbing through my window at night and inviting himself to become the latest abstract art project on my wall. Funny, but I don't have any other colors besides red.

No, the universe isn't MAV-ocentric. It also isn't CHEM-ocentric, or DAVE-ocentric, either. But, maybe it's CONDESCEND-ocentric, since that seems to be the favorite accusation of this thread.

Childish? No. Obvious mistakes in my post? Where, specifically, and how are they "Obvious?" And where are these untruths (aka LIES) that I'm leaving here? I am no liar, and I don't recall ever being one. Not here, not in the real world, not anywhere. Please elaborate on yet another accusation. Give me facts and references, or quit the B.S. and slander. Poke and prod, and the sleeping giant may awaken.....

MAVERICK

posted 07-26-2001 12:19 AM            

Now you ask me to answer the same damned question, under another set of 'guidelines' of your choosing.

I suppose I could spend the rest of my days answering the same question, over and over, but what's the point?

Asked and answered.

And as a said before, I didn't come here to debunk every personal observation I may find questionable. That's not my purpose, nor will it every be. I originally started posting on these message boards to get some answers to the who, what and why of what I was observing in the sky above me. This being accomplished, I remain in an effort to apply political pressure on those responsible
and to raise awareness.

I'm getting tired of beating the same dead horse, but if you or anyone else has a serious problem with the way Thermit has organized this forum, then there is a simple solution:

Start your own.

Believe me, it's not as easy as it looks. The reason this forum is as active as it is is due in large part to the policies that have been implemented.

No one is 'trapped' in the DMZ or the Science forum...it's not like anyone is holding a gun to someone's head to participate.

I'm going to ask you my own question, once, and with no restrictions on your reply...

posted 07-26-2001 01:28 AM            

Ask LTC8K6 if he feels like he's being treated fairly, or Toxdoc, or Seeker for that matter. This truly is a ghetto, where the lowly "debunkers" and their opinions are trapped, and the "chemmies" come and go as they please. It's a good idea to have this area of the forum, don't get me wrong, but opening up other forums such as "freeform" to them would give them a bit more ability to step outside of this ring every once in a while to answer the inevitable challenge from the peanut gallery.

Quote from Milton:

Infernal world! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor -- one who brings
A mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure; and, in my choice,
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:

Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,
Th' associates and co-partners of our loss,
Lie thus astonished on th' oblivious pool,
And call them not to share with us their part
In this unhappy mansion, or once more
With rallied arms to try what may be yet
Regained in Heaven, or what more lost in Hell?"

posted 07-26-2001 09:29 AM            

Moondog:

posted 07-26-2001 10:03 AM            

You might want to explain to these good people here how it is that a dedicated airforce pile-it can spend so much debunking time on the net. Here, the hoaxers board, your brother Jays place, sister Deb, and now you own debunking site. Amazing, truley amazing. You are not paid to sit around, or are you???? Now you start to wimper and whine because you are not allowed in other forums,
poor maverick god, my heart bleeds, lead.
Slamming Thermit because you are not in other forums is like: inviting yourself to a free meal and bitching because you don't like the food. Solution, don't invite yourself.

posted 07-26-2001 10:22 AM            

Maverick is in the other forums. He was never banned from Chemtrail Central. What are you talking about, David?

If you feel threatened by my posts, GOOD.
I don't care what color you uniform is, green,blue, pink or yellow,if the person wearing it is conducting tests on the American people then they are no better than vermin, and you know what we do with them don't ya....Lock and Load

posted 07-26-2001 01:45 PM            

How do you know just by looking Mav that these are just contrails and not chemtrails? This is not some dumb question from the peanut gallery, I really would like to know.

Nice pics 3T3! I've never seen a moonbow before...rather beautiful they are.

Thermit, I couldn't agree with you more. You have been more than generous in opening up new forums for the debunkers to post in, and all they can come up with now is ghetto excuses.