posted 03-16-2002 01:57 PM            

quote:

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originally posted by canex;

Sore,
My only preoccupation is with contrails, not the will-o-the-wisps that are being used to discover a plot behind every bush or a chemtrail behind every cloud. Or, haven't you noticed that yet?

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000558.html

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2. Wax indignant. This is also known as the "How dare you?" gambit.

3. Characterize the charges as "rumors" or, better yet, "wild rumors." If, in spite of the news blackout, the public is still able to learn about the suspicious facts, it can only be through "rumors." (If they tend to believe the "rumors" it must be because they are simply "paranoid" or "hysterical.")

5. Call the skeptics names like "conspiracy theorist," "nutcase," "ranter," "kook," "crackpot," and, of course, "rumor monger." Be sure, too, to use heavily loaded verbs and adjectives when characterizing their charges and defending the "more reasonable" government and its defenders. You must then carefully avoid fair and open debate with any of the people you have thus maligned. For insurance, set up your own "skeptics" to shoot down.

posted 03-16-2002 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Deb:

If I were using a technique, why would I use one that is so elementary that any one can do it and see for themselves? It's free -
and just requires a little time and thought.

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posted 03-16-2002 02:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by deb;
(I don't recall canex posting that he was Dr. Minnis.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by deb;
Defender, canex is Dr. Minnis. Whether you choose to believe what he says is up to you.

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the above quote by deb is in another forum, "Drought has engulfed nearly..."


[Edited 1 times, lastly by defender on 03-16-2002]

posted 03-16-2002 02:57 PM            

I could have sworn that defenders 17 technics to ignorance got moved from this forum...

posted 03-16-2002 03:10 PM            

They're 'debunker' techniques as everyone can see.

canex brought up the conspiracy ploy, a few posts ago. You're complaint should be with him.

In fact, it's just more evidence that this guy, doesn't have any proof, so he brings up this 'plot behind every bush' because he knows his argument about the non-existence of chemtrails is false.

Now you, (seeker) show up on cue, like a trained animal to start a flame war.

posted 03-16-2002 03:14 PM            

I'll stop pointing out the techniques and games, when you 'debunking' contrail believers stop using them.

posted 03-16-2002 03:21 PM            

I think you just have a lack of argument and moreover...thread envy...

posted 03-16-2002 03:28 PM            

You just repeat the same garbage, pass it off as truth, and then give us a hard time when you can't come up with any real arguments to prove your case. The fact is, you don't have a case.

posted 03-16-2002 03:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theseeker:
damn is there a moderator working today ?

I could have sworn that defenders 17 technics to ignorance got moved from this forum...

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seeker, you are just about as ignorant as they come.

The topic of 17 Techniques of Truth Suppression was moved back to "Other Trails", but as long as 'debunkers' like yourself keep playing games, I'm going to point them out.

posted 03-16-2002 04:28 PM            

slinging mud defender ?

listen, I guess you win, the battle of editing that is...

defender = 14 edits this page

seeker = 0

now I can understand a long diatribe, and errors...but editing a 2 or 4 line post...

are you ok defender ?

posted 03-16-2002 08:53 PM            

quote:

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I could have sworn that defenders 17 technics to ignorance got moved from this forum...

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quote:

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seeker, you are just about as ignorant as they come

slinging mud defender ?

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Looks like returned fire, not mud.

If anyone takes their time to post or decides to edit their posts what difference is that to any other member? For Pete's sake! Half the time I pop in here to CTCentral to have a read; the phone rings, people come in my office, or other duties call. The reply box or the thread being read stays open, might take an hour or more before getting back to it.

What is the big deal? Some threads do cross forums. For instance, the 17 techniques for suppression is now discussing offline chemtrail plane research.'

This whole thread started off talking about bannings from Clifford's site, and the suppression of research..

Opening sentence of this thread posted by Canex...

quote:

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Having been booted from Carnicom's anything-but-the-truth board, your reply has to be on a more open board.

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Are you suggesting now T/S that it be moved for discussing suppression?

posted 03-16-2002 10:54 PM            

I seen canex replying, and being very cordial in answering questions from the mass...he was certainly not reposting unrelated info, that if I wanted to read it I would go do so in other trails...

canex started the thread to inform....

(my op) and not one for defender to rail on other people because of their philosophy...which is the case here...like it or not...kook...or can I call you Fl ?

as far as Throat, we go way back...and I've been a good boy regarding him and his rants...so let's not upset things...k ?

btw, I took a shot at defender's 17's ways to whatever...he took a *shot* at me...big difference kook...

(edited to correct intent, and remove a "naughty" remark)

totally unrelated grins

posted 03-17-2002 01:18 AM            

at 600 mm

at 140 mm

_____________________________

posted 03-17-2002 05:00 AM            

One year ago in "chemtrail" history:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000286.html

It's also been well over a year since Thermit published his report and within he encourages other believers to use the tools available for research. I know, I know. It's easier to use attacks against critical thinking than it is to do some actual work on the subject at hand.

In all fairness, contrary to the techniques you claim debunkers use, see how many points you can relate to here:
http://www.watchingyou.com/woowoo.html

(I won't be insulting aand point them out.)

And speaking of Thermit's report, I must admit I didn't know as much about weather at flying altitudes then as I have learned over this past year, especially the past 6 months that I have been documenting it against "chemtrail reports." Actually, it was Thermit who indirectly gave me the idea to do so -

"1. Some observe some contrails and think they are Chemtrails. When contrails are reduced in prevalence, as in the months of July and August, the reports drop because some reports are incorrect. I don't know the full extent of this, however my research has shown that this definately occurs. On one occasion I identified, using Flight Explorer, two contrails which were mistakenly reported on CTTUSA as Chemtrails over Houston."

posted 03-17-2002 10:51 AM            

seekers back to criticizing editing, I havtne't seen that one in a few months, though my writing style has always been the same... sometimes I edit a lot, sometimes not at all. And mudslinging, halfwitted, suckers, like seeker has a problem with that....

For any new visitors/members, you'll see a common pattern with seeker (especially), and the others. First seeker criticizes spelling errors, then edits, then the fact that I (or some other member he considers a target) wrote too long a post!! 'Diareha(sp) of the keyboard he calls it'... what a genius! He has trouble with understanding some of those big words, so, in his mind, he has to fight back in the only limited way he can. i.e.; the 17 techniques.

These CONtrail artists switch back and forth with these tricks and games. It does get boring, but it's kind of fun sometimes, if you want to take the time to watch them. It doesn't take long in most cases. seekers posts are usually the most juvenile/moronic.

When he has no answers, when they fail to address legitimate questions, they criticise spelling, editing, the use of 'cut and paste' (they have so little research out there to respond to legit questions, they have no sites, references to back them up, so they criticize 'cut and paste' to make lame attempts to keep us from using it!).

It's always the same. Some CONtrail Artist, in this case, canex... starts it with an insult, I point it out, then another CONtrail sucker, usually 'the seeker'
... (you can't really call this guy an artist)... makes another insulting comment when I point out their lies and games, so they resort to anything they have to, to shut down a legitimate point of view.

Cut and paste is supposedly not enough info for them, (possible because they really don't comprehend it, so they complain if we don't explain it to them!) and legitimate arguments are too much for them to handle, so they criticize editing, spelling, length etc. When we do explain it to them, they have no choice, apparently, than to resort to the usual games.

Your 'non-existence theory of Chemtrails' is dead in the water people, so instead of facing up to it, you use the `17 techniques' to maintain your standard party line, like a bunch of 'ditto heads'. It's so easy to debunk the 'debunkers' with guys like you.

posted 03-17-2002 11:34 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by defender:
I have never claimed to be a scientist, or even have any interest in the chemical make-up of jet contrails. I've explained many times that I approach this problem from a political/conspiracy point of view.

IMO, any so-called scientific study of contrails is subject to political manipulation if it supports or benefits the 'debunking' of chemtrails.

The reason I post so often in 'Other Trails' is that I'm showing correlations between numerous and wide-spread conspiracies here in the U.S. and the likelihood of yet another conspiracy and attempted cover-up in the case of CHEMtrails. If you don't like my approach, that's not my problem.

The JFK murder/conspiracy and cover-up analogy are very pertinent to a probable well-planned cover-up in the case of the chemtrail phenom, IMO.

As far as this Weber person being a 'Carnicom loyalist' as you call him/her, that's all hearsay. What difference does it make to me? You're saying something that someone else said....? And you have proof... of what? In case you didn't know, I almost never look at chemtrail websites other than Thermits. I've seen chemtrails (like the homepage photo) and I don't need anymore info or disinfo to know something unusual is happening. The number of contrail studies you mention, and great amount of world-wide interest have not come about because everyone is mistaking this thing for normal airliner contrails.

This whole Minnis thing is meaningless to me. If you're saying Carnicom made a mistake? or someone named Weber (who could also be a plant) made Carnicom look bad? It's not important to me and has no bearing on my (or anyones?) attitude about CHEMtrails.

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quote:

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Originally posted by deb;
In all fairness, contrary to the techniques you claim debunkers use, see how many points you can relate to.

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Answer;

....none. (kept brief in the interests of seekers short attention span & deb's memory!) ...they do try though, don't they?

quote:

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Originally posted by Deb:
When I was a new chemtrailer posting at Carnicom's Board, I had no idea that the person with the moniker canex previously known as dogbreath, was DR. Minnis. In fact, it was a year later when I had discovered that contrails were contrails, that I was told. I felt pretty foolish after the fact,for arguing with a NASA scientist about a subject that I now consider him to be the world's expert.

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The World's Expert on Contrails, now that's a title worth fighting for!!

posted 03-17-2002 11:45 AM            

quote:

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originally posted by WiseQuakker;

“When walking amongst predators, never lose awareness of your surroundings. By itself, science tells us what should be. Only tempered with clinical observation and common sense, does it tell us what really is......”

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A quote from Senator John Glenn in regards to Non-Consensual Human Experimentation;
http://www.datafilter.com/mc/glennIntro.html

"You just think about your own family, your own son, your own daughter, or grandchildren who might be, the next time they go to a doctor, the subject of some medical experiment that they are not even told about. I do not think there can be many things more un-American than that."

posted 03-17-2002 12:40 PM            

Thanks for sharing those clear chemtrail pictures! Can you take and share here some close-up's (the best you can get) of chemtrail planes up your way? I'd like to compare them to some I've seen around the Seattle area. Specifically, unmarked white colored planes if that is what you see...

I read your chemtrails_over_america.htm page too. Good stuff.

======

"Facism will come to America in the guise of national security"

- Jim Garrison in 1967, the only man to bring a suspect to court for the Kennedy assassination.

posted 03-17-2002 04:40 PM            

I won’t refrain from mentioning Occam’s Razor. In fact, I would like to point out its nature as a double-edged blade. Don’t rest on it too heavily or you might get cut and bleed to death.

The way it is used by debunkers, Occam’s Razor is in fact a synonym for “denial”. It has become quite a symbol of “intellectual” correctness and an ideal excuse for heading to the golf course a little earlier. Then again, that’s par for the course regarding those who seem to consider themselves as topping the list in creation.

Now go sic Mr. or Ms. Occam on that string in the above trail image...

_____________________________

posted 03-17-2002 10:04 PM            

canex- "I have no disdain for Dr. Teller or his proposals. But they are just that, proposals. Impractical proposals. Ridiculously expensive proposals, despite his optimism that it would only cost $1 billion/year."

I just watched this evening's Sixty Minutes. One story delt with the millions of gallons of leaking highly radioactive liquid waste at the Hanford plant in Washington on the banks of the Columbia River. It was reported that as many as 67 of the million gallon tanks have already sprung leaks. The result, over a hundred square miles of contaminated ground water.

The plan: sequester radioactive wastes in glass logs, put in stainless steel containers, and store in Yucca Mountain in Nevada.

The "estimated" cost: $50 Billion dollars.

Why "estimated"? Because they are only starting this project. The story was repleat with examples of total blunders by government contractors (example Lockheed Martin) costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars.

The problem...the lack of oversight technical expertise within the Dept. of Energy, so these contracts get a blank check with our tax dollars.

The over riding reality...a billion dollars is NOTHING to our government bureaucrats...

NOTHING.

Why Canex's tone of indignation?

Perhaps he missed bucky b's latest post at the Carnicom board:
http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=5953.topic

"From the LaCrosse, WI Tribune, Sunday 3/17:
MILWAUKEE- Wisconsin's winter is the warmest on record, with an average temperature in November through February 10 degrees higher than normal, officials say."

You'd have to consider his true motivation.

I previously responded to his assertion that his economic evaluation was off base, i.e., the cost of a single B-2 bomber, and yet he claims I am not responding.

posted 03-18-2002 04:46 AM            

Since March 4, 2000, I have yet to see a "chemtrail." What I do see are more people than not reporting "chemtrails" on contrail days.

If I ever see a "chemtrail," I'll be sure to let you know. In the meantime, defender, again, if you have a personal beef with me, take it down to freeform. I will no longer acknowledge your attempts at messing up perfectly good threads.