posted 03-30-2002 11:31 AM            

Mad As Hell
written by Paddy Chayefsky

posted 04-02-2002 01:41 PM            

get a grip, guy!

by the way, bob;
"we are going to see more and more people decide they're not going to take it and start making holes in people"

is this a threat? sounds like a threat to me.

posted 04-03-2002 01:19 PM            

i appreciate you going easy on me because i'm new and all. but to be honest with you i have read some of your other posts and i would rather you just leave the "gloves" at home. i think i'll survive your verbal tongue-lashing. you're just not the scary.

one observation about you and some of the others on this board; it seems that some here will jump at the opportunity to label someone an "agent" or some other nonsense just because he happens to take you to task on one of your statements.

one of the reasons i am here is because i had heard about overt and covert threats made to both commercial and military aircraft. just to put your overly paranoid mind to rest, i do not nor have i ever work for the "feds". i am just a pilot who is concerned when he hears about americans targeting other americans.

so i will ask you again since you didnt answer me the first time. either way you answer, it will go not further than this board. but that is why i ask. i want everyone here to understand what you are saying: were you making a threat???

posted 04-03-2002 04:44 PM            

Well on this issue, we're certainly in total agreement.

posted 04-03-2002 05:43 PM            

glad we could find some common ground.

since you asked for my insights into the "attacks", i'll give you them.

believe it or not i have a very open mind when it comes to these things. i even believe in quite a few "conspiracy theories". for what its worth, i believe that the government has kept quite a few things from the public, however we probably disagree on their motives.

as to chemtrails. i have been flying for around 20 years. i am one of those aviation nuts who lives and breathes all things aeronautical. now that i think about it, i am probably pretty boring. anyway, in all my years of flying i have been around thousands of pilots (mil and civ), ATC guys, and pretty much every other position involved with aviation, and i have never heard anything that would support this theory. nothing. do you know how many FBO's, hotel bars, and crew rooms i have been to. if pilots have anything in common it is that they like to run their mouths, myself included. how is it that in all these years, all these people that i have met and all my flight hours i have never seen or heard anything to support chemtrails? these are people that are highly educated and would be the first people to notice something out of the ordinary yet, nothing.

according to these boards, although thermits report seems to indicate otherwise, chemtrails happen everyday, in all parts of the country. how can i be right in the middle of all this and not see anything? are my eyes closed? am a sheeple who just goes along blindly accepting what he is told? maybe i am an agent, here to mute everyone on this board. think what you want but anyone who knows me knows that this is not i.

i am not saying that it isnt happening, just that it seems highly unlikely for more reasons than i can count and because i have seen nothing in my day to day life to support it. you would think that the one group who this would be blatently obvious to would be aviators. we are right there up close and personal.

but i am open and look forward to talking with you. maybe you can enlighten me, and maybe just maybe, i can impart to you something of value. the only problem is that it seems that anyone who has a scientific or aeronautical education is demonized. i dont understand that. you would think that these people (not necessarily me) would be a valuable resource in your quest for the truth

thanks for listening

posted 04-03-2002 06:16 PM            

"we are going to see more and more people decide they're not going to take it and start making holes in people"

sorry if i misread the meaning behind this statement. by the way, i didnt say that you were making a threat, i said i didnt understand the statement and ASKED you twice if it was a threat. i take this stuff very seriously as i dont want you or anyone else shooting at my shiny new airplane. there were threats made over at carnicoms board. anyway, you say that it wasnt a threat so i will take your word for it.

i could really care less if you believe that i am a pilot or not. i will just try to interject were i can anything that might shed some light on things. if anyone has any questions i will try to be helpful.

by the way, i dont see how by me posting on this board this proves that i am not a pilot. what professions are allowed to post here? does the fact that you post here prove that you are not the fry guy at mcdonalds? come on, relax, it was just a joke. you can joke with me if you want, i can take it.

p.s. are we allowed to joke here? or do we have to be depressed and pessimistic all the time?

posted 04-03-2002 07:39 PM            

Since you say that you're driving a shiny new plane, I assume this this is a source of livelihood for you.

It's amazing how quickly people clam up when their very lives, and those of their family, are at stake- economically if not in fact.

So why would pilots remain silent?

Well, first of all, we know that they love to fly. You don't want to mess with the FAA questioning your competence do you?

And just how many people today live paycheck to paycheck?

But that's just my point of view as to why pilots have keep their mouths shut.

I'm sure there could be a fundamental flaw in my reasoning.

posted 04-03-2002 07:54 PM            

it sure does, sorethroat.

are you implying that money is more important than the health of my family? you state that the reason pilots keep quiet is to protect our livelihoods. what's more important to your livelihood, the well being of your family or the cash in your pocket?

your reasoning actually proves my point. unless you believe that pilots are evil and would rather have a beautiful sailboat instead of a beautiful family.

posted 04-03-2002 08:15 PM            

In today's world, these are very much one in the same.

Perhaps, with the information that they have to work with, they have actually been lead to believe that this "operation" is is in the "general" best interests.

...and that "unintended" collateral damage is just that, an unfortunate and unavoidable consequence of war.

We are at war you know...we're reminded of this constantly by our current Commander-In-Chief.

Just as a way to judge your integrity and aviation knowledge in general, just what is your take on the NTSB report on TWA Flight 800? Coverup and conspiracy of silence...hundreds of "confused" and uneducated eye witnesses?

http://www.twa800.com/index.htm

CDR. William S. Donaldson, USN (ret.), challenged the official NTSB position on the cause of the crash of TWA Flight 800 in a series of letters to James Hall, Chairman of the NTSB between April 1997 and December 2000. Over the past four years, CDR. Donaldson worked with other Retired Aviation Professionals, including some previous crash investigators as well as persons inside the NTSB investigation itself. CDR. Donaldson has extensive experience as a Naval crash investigator and he and others concluded that the NTSB's explanation of the Center Wing Tank explosion was not credible. With the help of these other concerned aviation professionals, CDR. Donaldson produced an extensive report on the cause of the crash.

Was the American public told the truth about this crash or not? It seems that many of your aviation brethren, with substantial credentails, have choosen to condemn the official government report.

So who is telling the Truth?

Nothing wrong with sailboats.

posted 04-03-2002 08:34 PM            

not sure how my integrity can be judged solely by my opinion on TWA800, unless you believe that anyone that has a different opinion than yours doesnt have any.

anyway, you have touched on a subject that holds alot of interest for me. let me read the web site and i'll get back to you.

by the way, your family's wellbeing my be tied to money, but i still come down on the side of health and my kids living a nice long life. pilots, military or civilian, are not mindless robots. if you believe that we are being sprayed, you have to accept that the pilots would know about it. i am not willing to accept that there are pilots, hundreds would be needed to carry out this op, that are willing to poison their own family, friends and countrymen.

that seems to be the difference between myself and some here. i think that this is a wonderful country with a few bad people scattered around. some here believe that it is a bad country with a few wonderful people scattered around.

posted 04-03-2002 08:43 PM            

...no games.

On TWA 800 it's not my opinion that I'm talking about. It's a team of professional aviators, crash site investigators, who have condemned the NTSB report.

It's THEIR call, not mine.

"anyway, you have touched on a subject that holds alot of interest for me. let me read the web site and i'll get back to you."

If that's true you should already be well aware of this site. It didn't just spring up overnight.

Back to family. If you can't put a roof over their heads, buy clothes and groceries, pay for medical insurance, and on and on...THEY WILL BE AT RISK. Period.

Cut the self-righteous crap.

posted 04-03-2002 09:00 PM            

.....i am not willing to accept that there are pilots, hundreds would be needed to carry out this op, that are willing to poison their own family, friends and countrymen.....

But you don't have any problem with *accepting* THIS, do you:
http://www.deepspace4.com/pages/chemtrails/bossier/1201/bossier281201.htm

This is NOT a healthy situation.

Just because you pilots don't seem to think there's anything wrong here doesn't mean other people are buying that.

This is not PERSONAL. I am just sick and tired of these endless circular "debates" which have NOTHING TO DO with the PROBLEM-AT-HAND, which is that our skies DID NOT look like this prior to 1999, PERIOD.

posted 04-03-2002 11:46 PM            

does this mean that we are not going to be friends?

"I'm not going to play your game"