posted 05-25-2002 07:50 PM            

quote:

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The skies above the Southwest are typically too dry, and the skies above the deep South are too hot for extended contrail coverage.

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Hot on the Contrails of Weather
By Mark K. Anderson

2:00 a.m. May 15, 2002 PDT
Scientists have long suspected that airplane condensation trails -- the wispy, white tails found in the wake of high-flying jets -- form larger cloud banks that substantially alter the atmosphere's heat balance.

These jet-generated clouds, called contrails, may in turn play an important role in shaping our weather.

See also:

• NASA: That Rain Came From Yonder
• Green Houses: Not Just for Plants
• Hey Kid, What's the Weather Like?
• Read more Technology news
• Environment News Service: Unearth the dirt



However, testing this proposition has been tricky. Scientists can't just ground all the planes across, say, North America and then study the before-and-after data.

But, for three days starting last Sept. 11, meteorological researchers were presented with just such an opportunity when the FAA grounded commercial flights nationwide for three days following the terrorist air attacks.

And now it has emerged that the American climate was indeed noticeably different during those three days without air travel.

A team of climatologists presented their work Tuesday, showing that temperatures in the United States fluctuated by 1.2 degrees Celsius more when airplanes were grounded than when normal flight patterns prevailed. That is, planes in the sky dampen the variability between day and nighttime temperatures. More air travel, the researchers suggest, brings less meteorological difference between noon and midnight.

This research provides one of the strongest indicators that air travel itself changes our climate.

"We actually found a much greater change in temperature range for parts of the country that normally get the greatest contrail coverage," said David J. Travis, of the University of Wisconsin in Whitewater. His team presented their results at an American Meteorological Society conference in Portland, Oregon.

Large contrails, he said, only form when the cruising-altitude atmosphere is both sufficiently moist and sufficiently cool (somewhere in the range of minus 40 to minus 65 degrees Celsius). The skies above the Southwest are typically too dry, and the skies above the deep South are too hot for extended contrail coverage.

These factors plus the varying density of air traffic over different parts of the country combine to make the skies in the Midwest and Northeast -- and, to a lesser extent, the Pacific Northwest -- particularly laden with contrails.

In such contrail-heavy portions of the country, Travis' team found that during Sept. 11-13, the difference between day and night temperatures increased even more. The Midwest and Northeast experienced a "contrail effect" of 3 degrees Celsius, more than twice the national average.

And as anyone who follows global-warming forecasts knows, it only takes climatic changes of fractions of a degree Celsius to yield widespread results.

Yet, Travis added that the new data does not suggest that contrails offset or enhance global warming. Other research has suggested contrails have a global-warming effect. But Travis' data addresses variability between day and night temperatures, not an overall warming or cooling trend.

"It complicates the debate," he said.

Conclusions are more certain on the regional scale, he added. As air traffic increases over some regions of the world, the increased density of contrails will likely bring even smaller differences between daytime and nighttime temperatures, and that will alter the local environment.

posted 05-25-2002 10:24 PM            

Patrick Minnis, J. Kirk Ayers and Steven P. Weaver, Surface-Based Observations of Contrail Occurrence Frequency Over the U.S., April 1993--April 1994 , NASA RP-1404, December 1997, pp. 83, (4MB).

http://techreports.larc.nasa.gov/ltrs/refer/1997/NASA-97-rp1404.refer.html

Pay particular attention to the plots indicating the expected frequency of persistent contrails across the country during the atmospheric conditions prevailing during summer months.

Just how can the debunkers explain away the increased frequency of persistent trails at this time of year in the southern portion of the country, since these should be a function of atmospheric chemistry and not merely explained away with the red herring of increased air traffic?

posted 05-26-2002 10:52 AM            

No time to preview this however I'll place this and review it when I can.

Here's the "audiovault" to cknw. Go to Saturday at 7:00 pm.

If someone can save this so we can get at it after the SIX DAY archive goes away i'd be real appreciative eh!!
http://www.cknw.com/audiovault.html

posted 05-28-2002 10:30 PM            

Can increased air traffic account for the increasing frequency of persistent trails?

or do persistent trails require specific atmospheric conditions regardless of the frequency of air traffic?

A very straightforward question.

You're good at these aren't you? You have significant resources at your disposal. I've even provided you with a relevant publication from one of the foremost contrail researchers to help you out on this one.

posted 05-28-2002 11:29 PM            

Interesting choice of words Kunz.

Especially so since it's key to the topic of this board.

...and that you did post your non-reply within 45 minutes.

"silliness".

Hummm.

Just as I expected, you'd dodge any response on this one.

One must wonder why Kunz spends as much time on such a unsubstantiated, "silly", issue. Especially when he is adamant that there is nothing to it.

And yet Kunz talks about wasting his time.

550 post no less.

posted 05-29-2002 09:16 PM            

"Most contrails occurred during the winter months and least during the summer with a PRONOUNCED minimum during July." (emphasis mine)

"Contrails were most often observed in areas near major commercial air corridors and least often over areas far removed from the heaviest air traffic."

Pay particular attention to figure 7c which shows that during the month of July, 11 of the 18 sampling stations reported persistent contrail frequency at 0-5%. These stations cover locations from Maine to Texas, Washington State to Alabama. Another six stations were in the 5-10% range. Only one station, Wright Patterson, experienced contrails in the 10-15% range.

As we approach the summer month of July it will be interesting to see if observers across the country experience anything close to this carefully documented record of contrail persistence. Let me help you with some math Kunz. 5% of the 31 days of July equates to 1.55 days. Let's just see if in all these parts of the country, the reports of persistent trails is limited to 1.55 days.

posted 05-31-2002 08:57 PM            

now up to 563 posts....

yet won't touch this one.

posted 06-02-2002 09:40 PM            

Post #568

"Yeah, it's possible. I would think that the sensitivity level would be tied to melanin content, so that red-heads, who are more susceptible to burning, would notice first"

Like I've said ...some debunker.

The "less nice" was apparent long ago.

Precious time...LOL

posted 06-02-2002 10:04 PM            

.....and we're not that far away from the month of July, which Minnis has already said showed a "PRONOUNCED minimum" of persistent contrail frequency, I can easily see why ALL debunkers shy away from this discussion.....
.
.
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Yes. I can easily see that myself.

Because there will be no *pronounced minimum* of activity over MY region in July if the photographic documentation of the last THREE July's - and the CURRENT situation - are any indication.

There is, IN MY OPINION, a very subtle and pernicious WITHHOLDING OF INFORMATION intrinsic to current *contrail research* in-progress.

I want SOMEONE to step up to the plate here. What I'm watching over my area is NOT normal - and it is getting WORSE by the year.

posted 06-05-2002 12:03 PM            

Narrator: "Joining Larry are Pa Grape and Mr. Lunt, who together make up the infamous gang of scalliwags, the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything!"
Larry, Pa, Mr. Lunt: "We are the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ..."
Larry: "We don't do anything!"
Pa: "Well, I've never been Greenland and I've never been to Denver, and I've never buried treasure in St. Louis or St. Paul, and I've never been to Moscow and I've never been to Tampa, and I've never been to Boston in July."
All: "'Cuz we're the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ..."
Mr. Lunt: "We don't do anything. And I never hoist the mainstay and I never swab the poop deck, and I never veer to starboard 'cuz I never sail at all, and I've never walked the gang plank and I've never owned a parrot, and I've never been to Boston in July."
All: "'Cuz we're the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay at home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ... We don't do anything!"
Larry: "Well, I've never plucked a rooster and I'm not too good at ping-pong, and I've never thrown my mashed potatoes up against the wall, and I've never kissed a chipmunk and I've never gotten head lice, and I've never been to Boston in July!"
Pa: "Huh? What are you talking about? What's a rooster and mashed potatoes have to do with being a pirate??"
Mr. Lunt: "Hey, that's right! We're supposed to sing about pirate-y things!"
Larry: "Oh ..."
Pa: "And who ever kissed a chipmunk? That's just nonsense! Why even bring it up? Am I right? What do you think?"
Mr. Lunt: "I think you look like Cap'n Crunch!"
Pa: "Huh? No I don't!"
Mr. Lunt: "Do too."
Pa: "Do not!"
Mr. Lunt: "You're making me hungry."
Pa: "That's it, you're walkin' the plank!"
Mr. Lunt: "Says who?"
Pa: "Says the captain, that's who!"
Mr. Lunt: "Oh, yeah? Aye aye, Cap'n Crunch!"
Larry: "And I've never licked a spark plug and I've never sniffed a stink bug, and I've never painted daisies on a big red rubber ball, and I've never bathed in yogurt and I don't look good in leggings ..."
Pa: "You just don't get it!"
All: "And we've never been to Boston in July!"

(Slightly modified from the original )

In other words, I don’t live in Boston, and it isn’t July yet.

posted 06-05-2002 10:55 PM            

In case anyone’s interested, here’s a sample of the two-faced kind of riffraff that comes over here from the debunkatorium/vomittorium. Any good manners you may happen to witness are strictly for show. If you want a real study in out of control egotism and misplaced hero worship, there’s a good place to do your research.

From the thread, “Alpha-Theta!”

D Kunz:
Alpha-Theta!
---------------------------------------------
If you haven't already done so, you need to check on the latest boddhisattva at Thermit's. He has already counseled, instructed and converted Pacer and myself; go unto that fount of enlightenment and achieve either Krishna Counsciousness -- or a severe migraine.

Steve Mason, AKA Alpha-Theta, is truly a piece of work.
_______________________________

BoneHead9:
But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
---------------------------------------------
NOT!

BTW did you notice how he contradicted the standard Chemie theory that the visible chemicals are what make "Chemtrails" so special?
________________________________

jayreynolds:
Re: But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
---------------------------------------------
Duncan,
Please immeidately cease all operations against
the alpha-Thetan entity. The damage you wrought has caused multiple permanent protoplasmic(MPP) Engrams which will surely cost thousands to Clear by Audit. This thrashing has caused a mock-up position of not-is which has obliterated all AT's usefulness. Everything that will be produced from now on will be useless. Nice going, Dunc.

And, Lulu, c'mon, now, 250,000 atmospheres? Any idea how to hold that gasser in?

jay
___________________________________

CogitaTute:
Re: But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
---------------------------------------------
OMG Jay :-) Too good. The summer lull may be settling in, but the humor has definately kicked into overdrive. I've laughed more in the last few nights here than I have in months.
_________________________________

From the thread, “Memorial Day”

CogitaTute:
Memorial Day
---------------------------------------------
I hope everyone is enjoying this fine weekend.

A remembrance and thank you to all here among us who have protected and served our nation, past and present.

My America Remembers site..

kat99.mybravenet.com/main.html
________________________________

PacerLJ35:
Re: Memorial Day
---------------------------------------------
Sore Throat's Memorial Day message:

pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtra...6319.topic

The attempt at saying past military veterans would be ashamed of the current military isn't reality...my grandfather told me he was proud of me before he died, and being that he was a WWII paratrooper, Korean War infantry platoon leader and spent two tours in Vietnam as an Army Aviator, I think I'd trust his judgement over Sorethroat's.
________________________________

Chickiedeb:
ST's message
---------------------------------------------
I'm not going to read ST's message until tomorrow. I don't want to get PO'd on such a meaningful day.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart also to all who serve and have served.
___________________________________

Chickiedeb:
Re: ST's message
---------------------------------------------
After reading ST's message, I have to wonder if he and how many of his "counterparts" served in the military? Remember McDonough was in the military, but admitted he was one that wanted a chaplain for his 'religion' - satanism. Because this IS America, they got it.

The title of this piece says it all.

Their Monument Is America
www.military.com/Content/...ent_052802
______________________________

D Kunz:
Re: ST's message
---------------------------------------------
I took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of The United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I'm not sure whether Throatee is one of those enemies, but I also swore to defend his right to think, say, and post his teuffelsdreck, and I'm okay with that.

I think.

Duncan Kunz
PO3, United States Navy (1962-1966)
_______________________________

Sceptic:
Re: ST's message
---------------------------------------------
Duncan,

Those of you who sign up to lay their lives down to protect those who would denigrate you are not deserving of their attention.

There is appreciation for what you do, and appreciation of the irony that they also live and act under your protection.

Keep doing what you do and do it well; there is no better memorial for those who have passed.
_______________________________

WiseQuakker (on 05/30/02):
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
---------------------------------------------
Sorry I won’t be staying for dinner. I guess everyone must have heeded Ike’s parting words. As everyone here knows, we have come such a long way in forty years. To coin a phrase made popular in those thrilling days of yesteryear, “There is no danger”...

_____________________________

“In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.” - President Eisenhower, 1961......
___________________________

jayreynolds:
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
---------------------------------------------
KMA,

Jay
_____________________________

LTC8K6:
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
---------------------------------------------
You weren't invited to dinner.

Ducks get eaten at the dinner table.

They also get eaten by reality when they can't provide any evidence of their life's passion.

Wild Bill, Inc. -Scared Enemy Of Freedom-
_______________________________

Now, there’s a couple of real Americans for you. All I did was to recall for them the prophetic words of President General Dwight D. Eisenhower — one our country’s last true military heroes. All they could do was to indirectly spit on his grave and blow off the desperate warning that he gave to the American people. Their otherwise lack of response says the rest. Ike knew from first-hand experience that “The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.” Never before were those words so true as they are right now. Happy D-Day, all...

_____________________________

posted 06-05-2002 11:32 PM            

Nothing unusual or unexpected in either case.
*******************************************
I thank quakker for the posts frrom "their" board which so totally distorts my Memorial Day posts. For the record here they are. Clearly there was never a criticism of "those in uniform".

Once again, this distortion of Truth is theirs...and is entirely consistent with their mode of operation. Like I said...Oh so obvious.
******************************************* http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001209.html

My American Flag is Flying Today
...and I wish I could say that it is under clear blue skies.
But that isn't the case.

My flag is flying to honor those generations of Americans who have come before us, who fought and died in horrible ways, in far away places, never to see their loved ones again...giving the ultimate sacrifice in order to preserve and protect an American way of life, rooted in the freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution.

How very sad today is.

Just what would they think about the truthfulness of our present government and its attacks on the very Constitution that they fought to defend?

and from the Carnicom board:
http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=6319.topic

Troll-Like Response
---------------------------
My concerns aren't "with those in uniform".

My concerns is with those who aren't...who don't risk their lives in the line of fire, but rather give orders from back rooms, accept donations (little more than legalized bribes) to do the bidding of special interest groups.

You wouldn't know anything about that would you isasi1?

The billions bilked from the American population in the Enron scam wasn't sheparded by a single politician or government official.

Our Attorney General, who was so deeply in bed with Enron that he had to recuse himself from any form of the investigation, is "supposed" to be the highest law official in our land.

It is a shame.

But then there are always the paid apologists...

those perverters of Truth who dishonor the dead.

And they are oh so obvious.

posted 06-06-2002 02:23 PM            

So much for seeking truth.

As I've said, this documented persistent contrail frequency data has them squirming like worms in a frying pan.

Sizzle, sizzle !

While we're at it...and now that CANEX has deemed to honor us with his presence, a question for you CANEX...please check my math.

5% of 31 days is 1.55 days isn't it?

posted 06-06-2002 08:44 PM            

quote:

---

You may notice that reports of CTs in the southern states diminishes during the summer

---

Not from my observations. It's been scorching here since about two weeks before Memorial Day and I expect it will stay scorching till about Holloween.

The "persistent contrail" problem has reared it's ugly head more frequently in the last three weeks (with the exception of launch attempt days) than the month of January. We had some very nice clear weather with blue sky and normal comet like contrails during that time, as was normal for this area up until about three years ago.

posted 06-06-2002 09:25 PM            

.....The reports need to be examined objectively.....
.
.
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And I suppose you are the only one capable of such objectivity, yes?

posted 06-06-2002 09:29 PM            

Canex -

How do you like my *contrails*?

They were photographed from the surface with a 50mm lens.

posted 06-06-2002 09:32 PM            

I'd be interested to know your credentials deborah...and the rest of the faceless nameless *group* ....

cough....

posted 06-06-2002 09:36 PM            

.....I'd be interested to know your credentials deborah.....
.
.
.
Stuff it, Seeker.

posted 06-06-2002 09:39 PM            

:/