posted 05-31-2002 01:09 PM            

Great pics. I'm a current airline guy with former charter/corporate experience in the LR-20's and the LR-35. The 35 model was the same as your model without the TACAN and the new TCAS readout. Nice bird.

Show them some night pics of St Elmos' fire shooting 40 feet ahead of the tiptanks and shooting of the bird splitter.

Then again, maybe not. A few might try to get a ticket on the Hale Bopp comet.

posted 05-31-2002 01:48 PM            

On the other hand, you may call it trolling, but I posted the photos to ask a simple question...are those contrails that I posted considered "chemtrails" by those who believe in the conspiracy, or did I just take photos of contrails. I know what kind of aircraft created them, but since we're all after the truth, why not admit that contrails that turn into cirrus clouds and linger all day aren't necessarily chemtrails.

And as far as relevance goes for the tanker story, I still haven't figured out why you think my friends would have no problem spraying me or their families. They are human like you and it's interesting that there hasn't been a single break in the chain of silence that is supposed to encircle the alleged chemtrail plot.

posted 05-31-2002 01:51 PM            

"I am in the north Texas area & the same thing is happening up here almost daily. Contact Congressman Ron Paul of Houston. He recently did an interview on TV about chemtrails & other crimes being commited by the government. He even had some film footage of the spraying. "

posted 05-31-2002 02:14 PM            

Okay...

Contrails that turn into cirrus clouds and linger all day aren't Chemtrails at all. They are just persistent contrails.

I still haven't figured out why you think my friends would have no problem spraying me or their families. They are human like you...

posted 05-31-2002 02:47 PM            

Thermit,

Sounds good, but remember the Anthrax vaccination debate in the military? Many of the guys who said "BS" to the vaccine were Air National Guard or Air Force Reserve pilots which comprises much of the tanker fleet. Ask PacerLJ35, many quit, raised a stink, sued, and went public and I believe somebody was court martialed.

The tanker guys especially, and most military pilots would raise hell and not believe goverment claims if they were dumping crap on their friends and families homes, no matter what was promised by Uncle Sam. Airline pilots too would be going apechit if they witness some dumping or spraying near them. Many of them are ex-military too. I would too, except that all I see everytime I fly up close is contrails.

posted 05-31-2002 03:12 PM            

I met Dr. Paul in 1988 When he was running for President on the Libertarian Party ticket (I was active in his campaign). I consider him one of the very few (if not the only) living congrescritter who actually lives up to his responsibilities as a citizen-legislator and an adherent of the United States Constitution.

I have reviewed all his press releases back to 1997 and fail to find any mention of chemtrails in any of them. I would really like to see just where and when it was that Dr. Paul spoke about chemtrails, and what it was he said.

posted 05-31-2002 03:15 PM            

Advance of The Third Phalanx.

posted 05-31-2002 03:23 PM            

Yes, I remember. Anthrax vaccination would take care of everyone in the military, but how to get the public...hmm...

posted 05-31-2002 04:01 PM            

You said that the tanker pilots would happily spray people if told by Uncle Sam that it's good for 'em. But the whole point about bringing up the Anthrax vaccine was that there were a large number of Air Force pilots, active and reserve, that were raising a big stink about it and saying "No" to taking it.

So, again, the point is if the pilots would raise questions about Anthrax, then why are they staying mum on any kind of "spraying operation"?

"Are you are really suggesting that they are using the Reserves for black ops?"

Check out these:
Air Force Reserve Command-
http://www.afrc.af.mil/919sow/about919/about919sow.htm

Pennsylvania Air National Guard-
http://www.paharr.ang.af.mil/start.html

posted 05-31-2002 04:11 PM            

My point was is that I never met anyone who trusted the Anthrax vaccine at the time. Many pilots I am aware of and a few even quit the Reserves and Guard with that as part of the reason. Many more did it, but don't trust it at all.

Now were all supposed to believe that this massive "spray" program involving thousands of pilots and aircrew plus thousands more of ground crew, doesn't have ONE person coming forward to protest it? Sure, all those thousands would trust the goverments claims of protection.

Remember the Stealth program with Lockheed building the aircraft? It doesn't get any "blacker" than that, but they still had workers coming forward with health problems and chemical complaints due to the new materials.

Where are the whistleblowers? Better yet, after all this time and interest, where is ONE picture of a plane on the ground?

Anyone want to do some research? Sometime in the early 1980's, CBS nightly news did a story on the contrails created by airliners in the upper midwest and how it even affected the low tempatures at night. They had a bunch of nice pictures of the overcast created on what would have been clear blue skies. Call CBS archives.

posted 05-31-2002 04:16 PM            

Despite what you read on the internet, the military doesn't just "grab" a block of airspace and declare it off-limits for any period of time. True black ops stuff goes on within Prohibited areas and restricted areas. Not all of these are black ops areas, many are firing ranges and special landmarks such as the Capitol building.

posted 05-31-2002 04:21 PM            

Good point, maybe that is why the "tactics" have changed...

posted 05-31-2002 05:53 PM            

Whoa, one fleet is enough!

posted 05-31-2002 08:50 PM            

So you're saying the whole operation would fly 4 missions a week? With how many aircraft per mission?

Let's assume they only fly four lines a week (our squadron flies about 30 lines a week). Each mission is a flight of, say, four aircraft.

Let's say they are using KC-135R models. Figure on needing at least one, maybe two spare aircraft. Then figure on needing at least 2-3 lines a week for training and currency missions. Then factor in scheduled maintenance on a KC-135, which, since they are about 40 years old, require regular inspections. This would dictate that at least one a week would be down for an inspection.

Typical of the military, they often keep extra aircraft around in case operations need to be expanded, aircraft get caught by weather, or some other reason. So add for that too.

Altogether, to support four missions a week, with a flight of four aircraft, you'd need about a dozen airplanes. On any given time, four would be flying a mission. Another would be used for training. Another one or two would be in phase. And others would be prepositioned for spares.

As for aircrew. Each KC-135 has a crew of four. So that's 16 right off the bat. Then you can't have only 16, because of other needs. If someone gets sick, or simply to avoid crew rest issues. So usually, in most units, there is a 3:1 ratio...three crews for every airplane. So really you'd need about 48. But wait, that's only for one deployment. You can't keep people away from families "touring" the US all year long. So you put them on standard 90-day deployments. That means you'll need at least two more sets of aircrew. So the number grows to 144.

Now we get to maintenance personnel. Here, each airplane will usually bring in about a dozen techs. And again, that's just for the rotations. All in all, you'd need about 300 people to fix the airplanes.

Then you need service personnel. Someone to fuel the planes, park the planes and prepare them to fly. For 12 aircraft, and considering that you'd have rotating bases, you'd need probably in the order of another 50 or so people. Again, only a third of them would actually be used at any given time.

Then you need security. Can't have people snooping around too much. The security forces usually pull longer shifts, and are a little more hard core, so they generally use less people, but you'd still need at least a Security Force Flight (about 30-40 people) to guard the facilities and airplanes.

Now, there are the coordination people. These are the people who build the missions, and coordinate who does what and when. They come up with the plans and pass it along to their supervisor who OK's it. Then it's released to the unit scheduler. Figure on another dozen or so people, since four missions a week isn't really a lot.

All in all, you'd need about 12 airplanes, at least 3 airfields to operate from, each with its own facilities, about 150 aircrew, 300 maintenance crew, about 50 support crew, another 30-40 security people, and about a dozen coordination people. You're talking a total of about 500 people. And not all of these people will stay indefinitely at this assignment. Every year, you'll turn over about a third of these people to other assignments or they'll simply get out of the Air Force. So, over the past three years, there has been about 800 people that have inimate knowledge of the operations.

Oh, and let's not forget the people over at the ALC (Air Logistics Center). They modify airplanes and do depot level work. There's probably another couple hundred working over there to manage the modifications and provide engineering support.

So now we're up to around a thousand. All this to support a measly 4 missions a week. With all the messages I see here and at Carnicom's, it sounds alot more than just four missions a week.

Here are some numbers to work with. Our flight operates four airplanes, of which three are usually flyable and not in maintenance. Sometimes we're down to two if one breaks. We support one mission a day. The other airplane is used for training requirements, and the third is a spare or the alert bird.

We have between 12-19 pilots on hand. Some are on leave. Some are busy at other jobs, like scheduling duty or participating in mobility exercises. Others have appointments with doctors, etc. Still others need to fly a training sortie to fulfill some training need before they can fly a regular mission. So on any given day, we've got about 4-5 pilots who can actually fly a real mission.

Then we've got about 8 civilian technicians and 4 military QAR reps working the maintenance side. And remember, these are very small Learjets, so there isn't much to fix. Plus they aren't 40 years old, they are about 18 years old. So they don't break as much. And since they are not as complicated as a large heavy jet, their phase inspections are shorter and require only two people to do it instead of a dozen.