posted 07-30-2002 02:13 AM            

it's a dumb idea...

posted 07-30-2002 02:47 AM            

quote:

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along with a number of other very closely-related papers that were presented that summer of 1996 - in August, as I recall.

And it just so happens that a great deal of the weapons and communications technology we are seeing being tested/deployed today in certain theaters of conflict and elsewhere is **directly referenced** in these AF 2025 White Papers.

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As they are also referenced in numerous patents, which are intuitive representations of currently operational apparatus which correlate with 99% of the relative claim(s) made within the official patent(s).

posted 07-30-2002 03:23 AM            

name some of them...and the *theaters of conflict* they've been used in....

posted 07-30-2002 03:50 AM            

"Chemtrails"
Air Chemical layouts

THE TESTS OF LABORATORIES ARE POSITIVE
14 Mars 2002

The google english translation is here.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.conspiration.cc/sujets/chemtrail/barium_cellules.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchemtrails%2Bin%2Bafganistan%26hl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26ie%3DUTF-8

The original french site is here.
http://www.conspiration.cc/sujets/chemtrail/barium_cellules.html

posted 08-02-2002 09:26 PM            

quote:

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so you think the military is modifying the weather...

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Chem sez:

*Duh*

To which the Chief Scientific Officer at the Centre for Atmospheric Sciences adds:

posted 08-02-2002 11:56 PM            

however exhaust from aircraft is not direct wx-mod...>>>snort<<<

and to add the American and world presence during the taliban confict, may have played a part in pollution, but the ongoing trouble between india and pakistan, specificly the million troops collected on both sides of the border certainly played more of a part than the military flights...we all know how many pakistan and indian vechles have EPA approved exhaust systems...

still waiting for deborah or A/T to answer the above question... not holding my breath

posted 08-03-2002 12:28 AM            

Tuesday flew from Maxwell AFB to Nellis AFB.

Wednesday flew from Nellis to Barstow-Daggett airport and back to Nellis.

Thursday left Nellis, stopped at McCarren (Las Vegas Intl) for fuel, and continued to Randolph AFB in Texas.

Friday left Randolph, flew to Hurlburt in Florida, McGuire AFB in NJ and back home to Maxwell.

In all cases, I observed large amounts of smog. In the southeast, the smog was primarily below 10,000 feet, and pretty thick. Partially this is due to a temp inversion, which keeps the pollutants down low.

Perhaps the most dramatic smog I saw was out west. Up in the Flight Levels, the air was crystal clear. But approaching cities like Phoenix, Dallas and Vegas you could see this "dome" of smog covering the city. It was particularly noticeable in cities in valleys, like Las Vegas. The mountains around the city were clear and easily visable, but in the valley that Las Vegas was in, you could hardly make out the buildings.

posted 08-03-2002 01:18 AM            

anyway, chem just checked out your latest flash intro...who's the band ?

please don't say it's sux....please....

posted 08-03-2002 01:58 AM            

Mark Sky posted:

"...and today (19th) a Major Brian Belke USAF
posted a 'letter to the editor' in our small local paper about yesterdays flight
he mentioned the retrofiting of the older KC-135 with new 'Pacer CRAG' glass"

The flight was an FCF sortie (Functional Check Flight) of a KC-135E from the Arizona Air National Guard. The aircraft had just received its Pacer CRAG modification. This modification removes the traditional "round dial" 1960s-era instruments and replaces them with modern flat-panel computer displays complete with digital avionics.

Pilots refer to an instrument panel fitted with computer screens instead of dials as a "glass cockpt". These types of cockpits are common-place on modern airliners and business jets, but are just now being installed on military aircraft.

Here's a link talking about the old KC-135 cockpit: http://community.webshots.com/photo/8298386/8304401gwVkJQcIIa

Here's a link talking about the new Pacer CRAG modification and the "glass cockpit":
http://www.6t6kix.com/pages/ang/pc.htm

Mark Sky apparently thinks this aircraft received some new-fangled glass called "Pacer CRAG". No, Mark, that's not what it received.

posted 08-03-2002 03:14 AM            

How about I stuff you in that tiny Learjet cockpit with no air conditioning, the sun heating up the cockpit like a greenhouse, on a ramp in 105 degree heat, during your 14 hour crew day, after you had to show at 2:00 AM? Sounds like easy work, huh? Oh, and let's not forget you still have to work out all that stuff about climb gradients, re-routings and all that other fun crazy stuff just to avoid getting violated by some FAA controller who seems to enjoy changing your filed route of flight and substituting it with points that you have no idea where they are (quick, better get that enroute chart!). Then, to spice up your day, the general's aide insists on going to a destination that you don't have the fuel to reach, and if you say no, he tries to tell the general that you're not doing your job right!

posted 08-03-2002 03:27 AM            

I do not profess to know "everything". But I find it laughable that you guys think I'm some "know-it-all" because I call you out on things aviation-related.

The whole point of the Mark Sky post was that chemtrail believers often flavor their posts with alot of misperceptions, urban legends and other misinformation based on what they perceive, not what is reality. Mark Sky obviously took the term "glass cockpit" and thought that the Pacer CRAG mod was for some new type of glass.

It's really a minor point I guess, and I wouldn't expect a non-pilot to know what that means. But that underlines my point. Most of you have extremely limited exposure to aircraft operations. Some of you think you had some extensive exposure, but even airplane mechanics and flight line personnel have a very limited view on how airplanes operate in the airborne environment and interact with other traffic and the air traffic control system.

It simply goes to show that it's easy to let misperceptions rule and not actually learn or discover the realities. And the whole thing about pilots "knowing everything", having been an enlisted "E-nothing" at one time, is based again on misperceptions...enlisted guys often feel that officers don't work...they just go to meetings and sit around and drink coffee. Many people also think pilots feel they are "hotshots" and that they also don't really work hard and have everything given to them. Trust me, I know your vantage point...I've served as both enlisted and officer.

posted 08-03-2002 04:08 AM            

quote:

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Still waiting for deborah or A/T to answer the above question... not holding my breath

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Seeker, it was apparent by your response that you were addressing Deborah. I myself never claimed anything about 'theaters of conflict', but perhaps you should ask the 'whales', 'dolphins', and 'squid' about this? You might also want to ask people in Panama, that recently suffered an earthquake, the potential of Sonic ELF on tectonics. One might also consider recent implications regarding the Afgan conflicts.

posted 08-03-2002 12:28 PM            

Talk about making assumptions.

You have this uncanny (officer) ability to take an argument on one subject and turn it 180 degrees. I'm impressed, actually.

I said something along the lines about pilots that think they are correct over everything.

Well, they are. They won't stop arguing until the other person walks away (and sometimes not even then). And even if they know they're wrong!

However, you thought I said that pilots know everything. Not exactly opposite, but very different meaning. Yet, you wrote whole paragraghs about how enlisted folks think pilots are a bunch of lazy, hot-headed junkies, all together while assuming that I was enlisted.

Well, Mr. Mustang, I'll let you know that your assumption that I was enlisted is correct, even though there's no way you could have ever known beforehand. I hear officers complaining about other brass-knockers all the time; so it's not just the enlisted guys.

I will also let you know that I respect pilots in the highest manner, military and civilian. Most of them are very intelligent, hard working, and skillful.

You totally misunderstood me.....but that's ok, you pointed out very common problem in the military.

And stop pinning Mark's mistake on the rest of us, will ya'?

posted 08-03-2002 01:17 PM            

quote:

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And stop pinning Mark's mistake on the rest of us, will ya'?

---

posted 08-03-2002 02:28 PM            

Pacer and the other debunkers have this nasty habit of taking quotes or postings out of context to try and defame or ridicule others. He,pacer, has posted this tiny blurp over at mavericks site also, and also ridiculing mark in the process.
Typical debunker tactic.
Your attempt,pacer,at trying to make mark look bad only suceeded in making you look like a fool, a dishonest one at that
============================================ Comment
mark sky
Registered User
(7/25/02 12:42:37 pm)
Reply KC~135 "visit"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

seems the small coastal town of Cresent City California was strafed on Tuesday July 16th by a low flying KC-135 doing landing gear adjustments after refiting at a defunct USAF base located in Mohave Ca

yesterday (July 18th) a picture was in the paper of the plane.
and today (19th) a Major Brian Belke USAF
posted a "letter to the editor" in our small local paper about yesterdays flight
he mentioned the retrofiting of the older KC-135 with new "Pacer CRAG" glass

We hear you loud and (not) clear Major
This is taken verbatum from todays local newspaper

THE DAILY TRIPLICATE, Crecent City, California, Thursday, July 18, 2002, page A4

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR:

"CREW OF KC-135 ELATED BY WAVES FROM COMMUNITY"

From the crew of the KC-135 which flew over Crescent City: Just drop by for a few instrument approaches there in beautiful Crescent City. I hope we didn't make too much noise (we like to think of it as the "sound of freedom"). I was elated to see everyone in town waving as we flew by.

We thought we would fly up from Mojave, California, to escape the heat that day. Our mission here is to fly functional check flights (FCF) on KC-135 aircraft for the Air Force, Air National Guard, and Air National Reserve. The airplane we were flying that day was a Guard KC-135E from Sky Harbor in Phoenix, Arizona. The cockpits and avionics of the entire inventory of KC-135's are being modified.

These aircraft were all built in the late 60's and are now getting a "glass" cockpit called "Pacer CRAG." After the airplane has been stripped and replaced with a new cockpit, we take them into the air to check all the systems. The approaches we flew into Crescent City were part of those checks.

We really enjoyed the change of scenery from the desert down here. St. George Reef Lighthouse and all of Crescent City was quite a site from the air.

As pilots in your Air Force, we were inspired by your enthusiastic support on the ground. You truly changed our day as I hoped we changed yours. Take care, and hopefully one day we will drop in on you again.

Brian Belke, Major, USAF
Mojave, Calif.

(marks comments below)
Seems strange, I dont remember waving, one finger salute perhaps...
Also this is not rare to see tankers here, but usually they are far above town "working" "dumping fuel" or making chemtrails~ it is rare to see them so low however~ I have only seen them this low 4 times since 1998.

posted 08-03-2002 03:56 PM            

David: The answer to your question is in the letter written by the pilot.

The KC-135 flew low over the city because it was flying instrument approaches.

" ...Just drop by for a few instrument approaches..."

The heart of the Pacer CRAG modification is the new digital navigation equipment and a GPS installation. Flying instrument approaches allows the crew to ensure these navigation instruments are working as advertised. And they probably flew multiple approaches to check out the different types of navigation radios:

The airport in Mark's town has several instrument approaches, but the runways are too short for the KC-135 to land and do a touch-and-go. So that's why it seemed like the airplane was "buzzing" the town...they flew the approach to the minimum altitudes and then "went around" executing a missed approach procedure. We do it all the time in the Learjet. In fact, I have to practice missed approaches on training flights.

The fact that Mark's town is "far away" from the mod factory is YOUR perception. To the crew of a four-engined jet that can fly over 500 miles per hour, it's not very far at all. To be honest, I've often picked airfields to conduct training based on just being curious and wanting to go there, or because it was close along the route. Perhaps the tanker crew had just finished (or was about to perform) an aerial refueling at an AR track near Mark's home?

Mark's hometown airport has the following approaches, and would allow the KC-135 crew to check the following equipment:

ILS/DME (Instrument Landing System/Distance Measuring Equipment)- The crew can check the localizer, glideslope, and the DME/GPS receivers.

GPS/RNAV (Global Positioning System/aRea NAVigation)- The crew can check the GPS receiver and ensure that it's receiving enough satellites for an accuracy that will allow it to fly a GPS-only approach, and ensure that it will sequence the approach correctly.

VOR (VHF Omni-directional Range radio beacon)- The crew can check the VHF NAV radio (aka VOR receiver), the EHSI display, and ensure they are working as required.

posted 08-03-2002 06:09 PM            

Besides completely ignoring the reason for my post, you again make assumptions.

quote:

---

By the way, there isn't a MOA in the "immediate" area...the closest one is the Goose MOA near Klamath Falls...and that MOA is used to train new Air National Guard F-15A pilots."

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What I acually said was-- "All combined with the fact that the aircraft was not from the area and it is capable of spraying chemtrails over the MOA in marks immediate area"
See, even a slight variation from the original makes it read entirely different.
Shift a couple of words here and there, make an assumption and presto, new meaning.

Now please, play nice or take your toys and go home.

posted 08-03-2002 06:43 PM            

mark does not need any help in that area david...

are you the thought police now david ?

pacer is extremely nice in his remarks...writes better than cydoniaquest (says a lot)...and is informative...

what he writes on another board is just that...

maybe your should grow a pair and take up your concerns over his and others posting over there...instead of littering up this board with your petty gripes...

just an opinion

posted 08-03-2002 06:55 PM            

I don't have anything against Mark personally. Did you read my posts? I wrote then, and I'll restate it again, that my point isn't to show how dumb or ignorant Mark is. It's to show that many chemtrail believers make statements based on false information, preconceptions, or urban legends, about aircraft, the national airspace system, and other aviation topics in general.

THEN, when a pilot comes along and states that they were wrong, suddenly we're "know-it-alls" that are out to paint people in a bad light.

I can't post at Carnicom's anymore because I'm not a chemtrail believer and Cliff blatantly eliminates anyone who doesn't agree with the party line. However, many people here also post and read Carnicom's site. So this is the only place I can come to address things I see over there.

And by the way, I didn't "deceive" anyone with my information regarding Pacer CRAG mods, or the aircraft visiting Mark's town. And I believe you did say within the "immediate area" of Mark's town. If you consider Klamath Falls to be the immediate area, then perhaps you're correct.