posted 08-03-2002 07:05 PM            

quote:

---

specificly the million troops collected on both sides of the border certainly played more of a part than the military flights...we all know how many pakistan and indian vechles have EPA approved exhaust systems...

---

US warplanes, T/S... The CSO specifically named the US military. Not India. Not Pakistan. Re-read the post (paying particular attention to his choice of the word injected).

I'm surprised you haven't heard that track on the radio yet, T/S... it's in heavy rotation and it's from the Album of The Year.

Linked to the bands website at the bottom of the intro page.

Aerials, in the sky
when you lose small mind
you free your life
aerials, so up high
when you free your eyes eternal prize
aerials, in the sky
when you lose small mind
you free your life
aerials, so up high
when you free your eyes eternal prize...

So you see T/S, this issue is far from stagnant.

It's about to explode.

Hey G Mask! Nice avatar... (cough)

posted 08-03-2002 07:32 PM            

quote:

---

Mark Sky apparently thinks this aircraft received some new-fangled glass called "Pacer CRAG". No, Mark, that's not what it received.

---

posted 08-03-2002 07:41 PM            

"...he mentioned the retrofiting of the older KC-135 with new "Pacer CRAG" glass"

posted 08-03-2002 07:49 PM            

like the tune...think I'll pop over to win-mx and see if there's a copy there just for me...

btw, indirectly I'm a bit responsible for G_M's "bubbles" avatar...

so I found this...maybe better ?

posted 08-03-2002 08:18 PM            

Nitpicking is one thing, but this is ridiculous. Following your train of thought, no one without a military pilot's experience is qualified to have an opinion on anything having anything to do with aircraft.

Take Serj Tankian for example. I doubt he's got very many hours of 'aerial' combat experience, but several million minds are being exposed to The Message because of his efforts. Over and over and over... and all the glass cockpits in the Air Force and Navy combined aren't going to stop it.

You better believe that makes me a fan.

I've had around 115,000 hits on my website since I started around... OMG today's the one year anniversy.

The first post was, oddly enough, on the Guided By Voices Isolation DrillsCD cover... things appear to have come full circle.

The point I was going to make is that SOAD can reach that many people in five minutes. And you can't debunk or falsely accuse or otherwise malign the Band of the Year.

All you can do is turn off the radio (or admit defeat).

posted 08-03-2002 09:20 PM            

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course, but come on, opinion is not FACT in some cases. You can have all the opinions you like about flying, but that doesn't change reality, nor does it have to reflect reality either.

And although the band members write about whatever they choose still doesn't make their stance correct or factually supportable.

Now, not having a military pilot rating doesn't necessarily stop someone from learning or knowing anything about military flying. But you bet I'm going to take a military pilot's information much more seriously than someone who has never even been IN a military airplane, much less flown one.

"Following your train of thought, no one without a military pilot's experience is qualified to have an opinion on anything having anything to do with aircraft."

Let's take that quote and change it to something unrelated to chemtrails. Let's use the medical field. So, Chem11, would you take some layperson's "opinions" about an illness over that of a trained and experienced doctor? Not that they layperson won't or couldn't know anything about medicine, but it's much more likely that the doctor has the experience, education and depth of knowledge to view things in a greater perspective...that would be also called a "professional opinion".

I don't know what your background is, be it computers, air conditioners, whatever. But you'd probably feel the same way if I told you that my opinions as an unexperienced person in your field were somehow more relevant than yours.

posted 08-03-2002 09:50 PM            

I have investigated this issue for over three years. I have reached the inescapable professional conclusion, based upon the evidence, that these persistant, fulminating aerosol clouds have little to do with condensation.

Your opinion, as an investigative lay-person, would be null and void by your own standards.

This is a photograph.

In my professional opinion, it is a properly framed, properly exposed depiction of aerosol activity that is far from what could be considered 'normal' in any sane universe.

Your opionion, as a photographic lay-person, would be null and void by your own standards.

Your pilot's license does not confer upon you some omnipotent knowledge of all the classified programs being undertaken by the US military, Pacer. Nor does it gift the bearer with common sense (an obviosuly under-valued personality trait amongst the Flat Earth Society, though it seems to serve the rest of us fairly well... hence the term 'common').

And whether you (or I) agree with Tankian and the rest of the band hardly matters.

The record sales and reviews speak for themselves.

This be the fire in the cellar beware
Starving cold millions
Gasping for air

-Rage

posted 08-03-2002 10:42 PM            

gotta like that !

To expose and close the doors on those who try
To strangle and mangle the truth
'Cause the circle of hatred continues unless we react
We gotta take the power back

rage

congrads on your aniversary chemster...

posted 08-03-2002 10:56 PM            

Same with investigations. Investigations are designed to "find" something. Whether you're out to find the truth, or find information to back your own perceptions, that's an investigation. Answer this chem. Aside from the photos and links to stuff that may or may not be related to the issue, what hard evidence do you have that a contrail is a chemtrail?

Have you found the aircraft that disperse this stuff? Where do they operate from? What types of aircraft are in the fleet? Do you have any statements (that can be verified) from pilots, mechanics or ground support personnel that state chemtrails are real? Can you tell me EXACTLY what they are spraying? Or are you simply going to ramble off the list of the 101 best candidates of what they might be spraying? And has anyone actually attempted to take a sample of a "chemtrail"? Finding stuff on the ground doesn't count, because you can't prove that it actually came from the jet.

As an investigator, have you actually been on an airplane on what appears to be "spray days" and documented the cloud decks, and the altitudes that the aircraft are operating at? Didn't think so.

posted 08-03-2002 11:03 PM            

But I'm sure investigators can somehow learn about all the classified things out there. No, I'm not saying I know all the classified stuff. However, since I spend alot of time at contrail altitudes, and have yet to see anything abnormal about contrails, or any of these mystery NSA planes, or the alleged reroutings around secret military operations, it makes me wonder. I wonder if you had a clear, open mind and THEN decided the government was doing this, or you had an intense dislike of the government and military, and went about making certain things fit your theory.

posted 08-04-2002 10:18 AM            

If "by your own standards" doesn't confer any meaning upon you, then I guess I'll just shrug my shoulders and toss it up to some sort of childhood head trauma.

Uh.. thanks T/S... I guess. You're being waaay to civil latley. Something's definately up...

(winks at Thermit)

PS - About the only issue that I think Zak is a bit confused on is the Mumia Abu-Jamal
thing. A worthy enough cause, but the wrong poster boy. From everything I've seen Mumia is as guilty as the night is long.

posted 08-04-2002 12:28 PM            

quote:

---

pilots, mechanics or ground support personnel

---

posted 08-04-2002 10:51 PM            

Dan brought something rather interesting when he made a comparison between the chemtrails and ground level spraying for West Nile on another thread. In the case of the spraying for the WNV, the majority of the people involved with that whole mess knew that there was the risk of negative health effects due to the use of pesticides such as Resmethrin, Sumithrin and Malathion but they sprayed them on their friends and families anyway knowing all too well that WNV is a fatal disease.

I'm sure that there would be a major panic if one of those supposedly harmless chemicals that the military uses for testing purposes either turned out to be a killer or mutated to become one and the military publicly admitted the mistake. It's one thing to release them in a sterile environment but it's another thing to release them into the atmosphere Pacer.

posted 08-05-2002 09:38 AM            

First off, I never even heard of the chemtrail fiasco until I wandered onto Cliff's page about a year ago. Outside that, VERY few people in the Air Force even know what the term "chemtrail" means. And the Air Force leadership has not been actively trying to convince the rest of us that chemtrails aren't real.

As far as my objectivity, I try to remain so. I have in the past admitted that the military may very well be experimenting with various programs involving things related to chemtrails. But not anywhere near on the scale shown on the chemtrail websites.

I'll try and write here my convictions on the chemtrail issue:

1. They are spraying us with biological/chemical agents to weed out the sick- This one is something I can't readily believe, for several reasons. First, I know several pilots who have sick family at home, and they would, in effect, be killing their own. Also, pilots are generally fairly well educated, and they'd be smart enough to figure out that anything that can kill the sick probably wouldn't be very good for them either. Finally, after flying through contrails many times, I haven't gotten sick or felt ill, and I haven't been reading about any large numbers of ill passengers dying or getting sick either. Granted, many of the commercial airliners do have HEPA filters, but that's not going to stop certain chemicals from getting into the cabin air system. And many other types of jets, mostly business jets, do not have complicated cabin air filtration systems.

2. They are spraying things in the air to aid HAARP or some other secret weapon- I'm fairly certain that the military has at least toyed around with this idea, using weather or other atmospheric conditions to aid in the battle. They've been experimenting with it since WW II. The fleet of aircraft used for such experiments isn't classified, although generally you can't simply get a tour of them either. But they are also small in number. Like fewer than 10. And they are used for a host of other tests as well involving avionics, electronic testing, etc. The paper "Owning the Weather.." is simply a research paper. How many of you went to college and wrote research papers about ideas you had? And you really need to understand the purpose of Air University before you jump to conclusions. Air University is not a facility to research new weapons. It's a school used to educate officers and senior ennlisted personnel on Air Force doctrine, and to develop new doctrine. Doctrine is different from weapon systems. Doctrine says "this is our goal" and weapon systems are means to accomplish those goals. That being said, I've seen some papers here that are pretty "futuristic" to be sure. The AU personnel try to explore every option to see what's viable, and what's not. Often, they come up with ideas, and the engineers that develop weapon systems say "that's not very viable from our perspective". AU versus weapons production is often a struggle similar to a structural engineer and an architect.

3. They are spraying because they want to stop global warming- Often I read that people on the ground see contrails make the large decks of cirrus clouds. From my perspective, aircraft will generally produce more contrails and longer lasting contrails around cirrus decks. Why? because the same conditions that allow the cirrus cloud to form and expand is also creating the contrails.

That being said, I think it would take alot more than you think to reduce global warming appreciatively. I'm a geologist by education, and looking back comparatively on global temperatures, the Earth is just now in another historical upswing, aided by pollutants. Even if we cut back on the pollutants and tried some scheme to cool the Earth, it would still warm up...it's just cyclical. There have been numerous times in the Earth's history where most of the land was underwater, save a few mountain ranges. Trying to keep the Earth in some status quo is a losing battle.

Anyhow, things that make me question the validity of the chemtrail theory:

1. I have never witnessed any "NSA" airplanes or airplanes that look similar to those described by chemtrail activists, and I see A LOT of airplanes fly over and under me at close range.

2. I have never seen a "weird" contrail, and I've got several hundred hours up there in the high cruise altitudes.

3. I've seen what you call "normal" contrails coming from a variety of aircraft, military and civilian. I've seen what you'd call "chemtrails" coming from the very same aircraft. Following some aircraft, as you would along a busy route, you can watch other contrails go from hardly being formed to turning into well defined, persistant contrails. And instead of coming from the dreaded KC-135 or the "NSA" airplane, it's coming from a Delta 767.

4. Chemtrail activists often talk about people having breathing problems or getting sick and dying from the material allegedly being sprayed. But none of the pilots and crew I have flown with, or have talked to, have gotten sick or had breathing problems. And the Learjet doesn't have HEPA filters.

5. Some chemtrail activists have mentioned that they could see material "falling" from the contrail. I have never seen this.

6. Some talk about gel being dispensed from the sky....never had any gel hit my windscreen.

7. Some, such as Carnicom, take samples of the air, or collect debris that falls from the sky. OK, that's nice. But how do you know it came from a contrail? How did they determine it came from an aircraft? How did they rule out other sources for the increases in various pollutants? Saying that "it came from the sky right after contrails were formed" isn't the right answer. There is about 5-6 miles of atmosphere between you and that contrail, and just about anything could have dropped the material you find on the ground, or it could have blown from somewhere else.

8. I have examined nearly every photo of a contrail, and I can't find anything different between what they photographer calls a "chemtrail" and what looks like the very same contrails I see while flying.

9. Same goes for the airplane pictures. Often they say it's a "white unmarked" aircraft, but looking closer at the photo, you can make out the Continental Airlines logo on the tail. Even if it isn't an airliner, there are a bunch of operators up there, including air freight, private business jets (yes some even own private Boeing 757s), and regular military aircraft. Many air freight aircraft I've seen are painted mostly white with the company's logo in small type along the top of the cabin. This is cheap and easy to maintain.

10. Most of the "NSA" airplane pics, the ones with white fuselages and red engine cowlings, look eerily similar to a Virgin Atlantic Boeing 747, or a Hapag-Lloyd (orange engines though) Airbus.

11. Nearly every photo that says "low-flying chemplane" shows an aircraft that obviously is at a very high altitude. Folks, you can generally easily tell the aircraft type with the naked eye if it's within 10,000 feet of you. If you need a set of binocs to look at it, it's probably way up there.

12. There are a few photos that show things I can't explain without knowing more about the specific type of aircraft. For example, fuel dumps, etc. Some could be photo touch-ups or artifacts. Some could very well be some kind of device that I'm not aware of. But I've only seen about 3 photos of that caliber, and to be honest, a pilot of that specific model of aircraft could very well say "oh, that's the something-or-other system...".

13. I have mentioned the chemtrail theory to other pilots. Some were former tanker pilots. Others were not. Even if it is "secret" with a "need to know", we have a way of verifying things without verifying them...a wink, or the words "well, can't really talk about that". But I haven't heard anything of the sort. Commercial pilots seem to find the same holes in the evidence that I find, and dismiss it. A few diehards that like to debate stick around...most of the rest of them ignore the chemtrail theorists. A good friend of mine, an ERJ-145 pilot for a regional airliner, tried to get involved in the debate but was frustrated with the insults he received at Cliff's just for trying to add his 0.02 cents.

posted 08-05-2002 10:31 AM            

I would also like to add that having studied chemistry, physics, and pollution engineering (I have calculated air dispersion models for pollutants, have any of you?) I find the whole concept of high altitude spraying to be fundamentally flawed. This is about the most inefficient method that you could choose.

If, for instance, you were trying to counteract global warming, you would be spewing out a considerable amount of CO2, a greenhouse gas, just to release a handful of particulates which will eventually settle out and have to be reapplied, while the CO2, a gas, will remain airborne.

As we saw last September with the Anthrax attacks, there are cheaper and easier ways for to disperse biological agents to the population. That was done by a small group, or even one person. Imagine what a well funded government agency could accomplish?

posted 08-05-2002 11:04 AM            

quote:

---

Imagine what a well funded government agency could accomplish?

---

posted 08-05-2002 11:57 AM            

Pentagon To Reveal Biowarfare Tests

CBS News has learned that the names of servicemen who were sprayed with chemicals decades ago in U.S. military germ warfare tests will be turned over to the Department of Veterans Affairs.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports that during the 1960s, the Pentagon conducted more than 100 secret biological warfare tests at sea.

As CBS News first reported back in May, in two of those tests, code-named "Autumn Gold" and "Copper Head," more than a thousand U.S. sailors were sprayed with materials once thought to be harmless.

Many of those sailors—some of whom claim they were subjected to the test without their consent and were never told what it involved—feel their health has been damaged.

In addition to the names of those tested, the Pentagon also will provide a list of all the tests and the biological and chemical agents used.

But according to a letter from the Dept. of Veterans Affairs (VA) to the Pentagon, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, the VA requested a lot more, including classified medical records. The two departments are currently negotiating over what will be released.

Federal officials Wednesday briefed veterans' groups about efforts to get the Pentagon to release more details of the tests.

Thread from here at: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000014.html

posted 08-05-2002 12:00 PM            

The History of Bioterrorism in America
By Richard Sanders, Coordinator, Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade.

Who is behind the recent spate of Anthrax attacks? Who would intentionally expose Americans to such deadly germs? To answer these questions, it is useful to know that there have been previous cases bioterrorism in the U.S. Previous incidents of bioterrorism in America since WWII, although more widespread than this year's anthrax-related incidents, received very little media attention.
The identitities of those who planned and perpetrated decades ofbioterror attacks on Americans is known. Although they have admitted their guilt - in written confessions to Congress - they remain immune from prosecution. They are above the law.
In a 1977 special report to Congress, the U.S. Army admitted conducting hundreds of chemical and biological warfare tests, including at least 25 that deliberately targeted the unsuspecting public. The military disclosed evidence that it had released disease-causing germs in at least 48 open-air tests. (U.S. Army Activity in the U.S. Biological Warfare Programs, 1942-1977. Vols 1 and 2, February 24, 1977)
In 1994, Senator John D.Rocke-feller's report (Examining Biological Experimentation on U.S. Military) further revealed that over the previous 50 years, the U.S. military intentionally exposed hundreds of thousands of their own soldiers to dangerous microbes, mustard and nerve gas, radiation, hallucinogens and psychochemicals.
Recent bioterror attacks have prolonged the national crisis sparked on September 11. Widespread concerns about anthrax have served those who wish to promote the draconian laws that are descending upon the U.S. Curiously, the strain of anthrax bacteria being used most likely originates from the U.S. military (Debora MacKenzie, New Scientist, October 24)
The following quotations, compiled from various sources, summarize the shameful but little-known history of the U.S. military's responsibility for exposing Americans to the terror of biological weapons.

-------------------

1943 Fort Detrick:
The U.S. began research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.1 They studied anthrax, brucellosis, Botulinus toxin, plague, Sclerotium rolfoil, late blight, late blast, brownspot of rice, rinderpest, tularemia, mussel poisoning, coccidioidomycosis, rickettsia, psittacosis, neurotropic encephalitis, Newcastle disease and fowl plague.2

1945 Recruiting Nazis:
The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence and the CIA initiated Project Paperclip to recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret, U.S. government projects [including bio-warfare experiments on unwilling human subjects].1

1946 Japanese war criminals:
The U.S. began negotiations with Japan to acquire their germ warfare data. In exchange, Japanese scientists received immunity from prosecution for their war crimes. Dr. Shiro Ishii, a physician and army officer who began experiments in germ warfare in 1932 when Japan invaded Manchuria, formed a biological-warfare unit (Unit 731) that used Chinese soldiers and civilians as test subjects. About 9,000 died of bubonic plague, cholera, anthrax and other diseases. U.S. soldiers captured in the Philippines were sent to Unit 731 so the Japanese could test biological weapons on them.2

1948 Cttee. on Biological Warfare:
The Secretary of Defense's Research and Development Board, requested an evaluation of biological agents as weapons of sabotage. The Committee on Biological Warfare recommended that methods be assessed for disseminating biological agents, with emphasis on special operations. It recommended research to test "innocuous organisms" in ventilation systems, subways and public water supplies. This influenced administrations for 20 years and the U.S. conducted highly-classified scientific tests on unknowing populations throughout the country.
The biological warfare research program in the early 1940s and 1950s involved antipersonnel, anticrop and antianimal studies. Field trials included open-air vulnerability testing, and contamination of public water systems with live organisms such as Serratia marcescens. Covert programs were conducted by the CIA. Pathogenic organisms were tested in Florida and the Bahamas in the 1940s. Chemical anticrop studies evaluated defoliation and crop destruction.3

1949 Germ bombs:
Explosive munitions tests with pathogens were begun.3

1950 The First "open air tests":
The first open-air tests with biological agents were conducted in various locales, including off the coast of Norfolk, Virginia.3

1950 Spraying San Francisco:
The first large-scale, aerosol test was conducted in San Francisco Bay in September 1950, using two species of bacteria (Bacillus globigii and Serratia marcescens). Many experiments used various Bacillus species because of their similarities to B. anthracis.3
On September 26 and 27, 1950, the U.S. Army sprayed S. marcescens from a boat off the coast. On September 29, patients at San Francisco's Stanford University Hospital began appearing with S. marcescens infections.4 Many residents came down with pneumonia-like symptoms and one died. A military, follow-up study showed that nearly every single exposed person became infected with the test organism.5
The death of Edward J. Nevin was associated with this release of S. marcescens.4 (The first lawsuit against the U.S. government was filed by his family [in 1981]. The court decided that the U.S. government could not be sued, under the Federal Tort Claims Act, since the decision to spray S. marcescens was a part of national defense planning.)3

1951 Racist Germs:
Army researchers deliberately exposed a disproportionate number of black citizens to the fungus Aspergillus fumigatus, to see if African Americans were more susceptible to such infection, like they were already known to be to coccidioidomycosis (Coccidioides immitis). Similarly, in 1951, unsuspecting [black] workers at the Norfolk Supply Center, Norfolk, VA, were exposed to crates contaminated with A. fumigatus spores.3

1955 Whooping Cough:
Tampa Bay, FA, experienced a sharp rise in Whooping Cough cases, including 12 deaths, following a CIA bio-war test in which bacteria from the Army's Chemical and Biological Warfare arsenal was released to the environment.5

1951-1969 Dugway Proving Ground:
Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of open-air tests using bacteria and viruses that cause disease in human, animals and plants were conducted at Dugway Proving Ground, a military testing facility about 80 miles from Salt Lake City, Utah. These tests were to determine how the agents spread, survive and effect people and the environment.
It is unknown how many people in the vicinity were exposed to potentially harmful agents during these open-air tests. In 1969, concerns were expressed at a congressional hearing about the possible public health implications of the VEE virus tested there.
University of Utah scientists and doctors are greatly concerned about the potential health consequences not only for military personnel who work and train at Dugway, but also for civilians who live in a nearby small town and Indian reservation. Utah Medical Society physicians complained about the lack of information provided to the medical community.
According to Rutgers University political science professor Dr. Leonard Cole, the use of potentially harmful chemical and biological agents continues at Dugway. He testified that the U.S. Army uses Bacillus subtilis "which is is recognized as a potential source of infection and can cause serious illness in some people when they are exposed to it in large numbers and they inhale large numbers of those microorganisms."4

Mid1950s-early 1970s Project Shad:
The Dugway Proving Ground and Fort Douglas had a secret navy, called Project Shad. Their ships sailed through clouds of germ and chemical agents. Some sailors blame these tests for the cancer and other diseases that they suffer from.6

1956 Operation Transit III:
One of Project Shad's first tests occurred in San Francisco Bay as part of Operation Transit III. In September 1956, plans called for a 40-foot munitions boat to create clouds of Bacillus globigii germs that the Eastman would travel through. Plans called for enough germs to ensure that "a minimum respiratory dose of 10,000 organisms is received on deck." Planners considered B. globigii a safe "simulant" of more dangerous germs. (The U.S. Army still uses it for field testing.)
The tests included dropping "20,000 gallons of BG (B. globigii) slurry" from helicopters.6

1956 to 1958 Testing on Blacks:
The U.S. Army did field tests in the poor black communities of Savannah, Georgia, and Avon Park, Florida, in which mosquitoes were released into residential neighbourhoods from ground level and from planes and helicopters. Many were swarmed by mosquitoes and developed unknown fevers; some even died. After each test, Army personnel posing as public health officials photographed and tested the victims and then disappeared from town. It is theorized that the mosquitoes were infected with a strain of Yellow Fever. Details of the tests remain classified.5

1950s to 1970s Operation Whitecoat:
Many experiments that tested various biological agents on human subjects, referred to as Operation Whitecoat, were carried out at Fort Detrick, MD. The human subjects originally consisted of volunteer enlisted men. However, after the enlisted men staged a sitdown strike to obtain more information about the dangers of the biological tests, Seventh-Day Adventists who were conscientious objectors were recruited for the studies. Because they did not believe in engaging in actual combat, they became human subjects in military research projects that tested various infectious agents. At least 2,200 Seventh-Day Adventists were used in biological testing during the 1950s through the 1970s.4

1962 More on Project Shad:
Training outlines show that Project Shad sailors were briefed on work with germs causing some of the deadliest diseases known, including tularemia, anthrax, parrot fever, Q fever, African swine fever, the plague and botulism.6

1963-1965 Project Shad ships "participated in 111 tests" using nerve agents GB and VX, and biological agents Bacillus globigii, Serratia marcescens and Escherichia coli. (Letter from Maj.Gen. L.J.Del Rosso, Army director of space and special weapons, to Senator Steve Symms, R-Idaho, 1992)6

1966 New York Subway:
From June 7-10, the U.S. Army's Special Operations Division dispensed [Bacillus subtilis var niger3] throughout the New York City subway system. The Army's justification for the experiment was the fact that there are many subways in the USSR, Europe and South America. Details of the experiment are still classified.5 More than a million were exposed when army scientists dropped lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.1

1987 Continued Research:
The Department of Defense admitted that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to do research at 127 facilities and universities in the U.S.1

URL of above:
http://www.ncf.ca/coat/our_magazine/links/issue46/articles/history_of_biowarfare_in_usa.htm

posted 08-05-2002 12:00 PM            

I don't subscribe to Carnicorm's theory as it is way too simplistic and in no way explains the collusive manner of the chemtrail applications in coordination with the Ionojects and Tesla based technology.

Also as I have previously stated I don't subscribe to the biowarfare theory either. Obviously biological agents do not fair well floating through the atmosphere. I agree with this and as Bonehead mentioned there are many more effective ways to initiate biological attacks.

Pacer allow me to repeat one very important fact that you and Bonehead are both neglecting to address:

quote:

---

Enviromental engineering is a reality and the applications of enviromental engineering can be 'reverse engineered' for defense purposes, and that is exactly what is happening.

---

Chemtrails are not a phenomena that meteorologist or even common chemist' are qualified to explain. The application of the said particulates cannot be described by Molecular Dyamics. It is my belief that this whole operation is more elaborate, intrepid, and collusive than even the 'chemmies' imagine, as I had previously mentioned. The possiblity of the chemtrail applications cannot be described using meteoroligical idealogy. It involves using substances and methods which work together to effectively nullify any pre-existing atmospheric condition. We are not talking about a natural reaction that fits within the parameters of meteorology... this is irrelevant. What is happening up there is man made. Perhaps owning the weather in 2025 was the title of a relative document. Allow me to suggest that not only is it evident, but it's almost blatant that this article should be named 'owning the weather in 2002' as much of what it states has already manifested in numerous forms.

posted 08-05-2002 12:05 PM            

The repeated and sometimes stormy, but always presistant,attempts to debunk this issue only heighten's my suspicions on this subject.