posted 09-02-2002 02:56 AM            

lol

JP-8+100 is NOT (I repeat) NOT a refrigerant. So stop talking about it like it is by trying to prove me wrong.

please list all the ingredients in jp8+100 mask...not a description of what they do....what they are....

all of them....

That's not 'cooling'

by increasing the threshold of temperature, it is cooling...duh...

Pacer would probably even back me up on this one, for christ's sake.

I bet he does not...

I'm sure he knows plenty about how fuel additives work, and I'll bet you he's never seen a chlorine or flourine based refrigerant introduced into the fuel tank of any aircraft.

I'm waiting to hear more...

and as far as your last statement...I'd bet he's never seen a chemtrail either...

LOL

(Why am I wasting my time on this petty crap?)

because your a chemmie ?

funny you believe in chemtrails but dispute a legitmate cause and possibility for the behavior that they are describes as...

hmmm....

I smell something....and it ain't cheese...

posted 09-02-2002 06:21 AM            

quote:

---

please list all the ingredients in jp8+100 mask...not a description of what they do....what they are....

---

Why? All I said was JP8+100 is not a refrigerant, it is a detergent; an undisputable fact. Period. If you want to know the ingredients so bad, call the damn company that makes the stuff and ask for an MSDS. Who cares if it has refrigerant in it or not; it still doesn't make it R-134a.

quote:

---

by increasing the threshold of temperature, it is cooling...duh...

---

What dictionary are you looking in?
No matter, here's what Webster came up with:

Main Entry: cool
Date: before 12th century
intransitive senses
1 : to become cool : lose heat or warmth -- sometimes used with off or down
2 : to lose ardor or passion
transitive senses
1 : to make cool : impart a feeling of coolness to -- often used with off or down "

Instead of 'cooling', perhaps you are looking for the phrase "altering the physical properties of". That's ok, I know that debunkers tend to twist other people's words around. (duh)

quote:

---

funny you believe in chemtrails but dispute a legitmate cause and possibility for the behavior that they are describes as...

---

Interesting. You seem to be having a conversation with yourself, with poor grammar to boot......you aren't supposed to type until after you set the bottle down.

I'm not sure where your nose is, but I smell "distract and attack".

Cheers

posted 09-02-2002 09:25 AM            

Prist is always added to all military jet fuels. And it is not an anti-fungal agent...just anti-icing. Many civilian operators use Prist as well. When we go OCONUS (outside the US) we bring cans of Prist because many foreign countries don't premix it.

And as far as R-134 is concerned, I really don't know if it's added or not (I don't believe it's in JP-8, but with the other specialty fuels out there like JP-7, who knows).

posted 09-02-2002 10:03 AM            

1997
Need No. 426

[Excerpts below are from the Google cached version of this document. The same material found at the direct link is accessible only via a secure server - i.e. it is password-protected.]

Excerpts:

.....1. ID Number: 426
2. Title: Environmentally Enhanced Solid Rocket Propellants
3. Pillar Supported: Pollution Prevention
4. Priority: High
5. Media: Air, Soil, Water, Stratospheric Ozone
6. Contaminant(s):

-- Aluminum
-- Hydrazine
-- Hydrogen chloride
-- Aluminum oxide
-- Isocyanates.....

.....8. Need Description: The current generation of solid rocket propellants used for space launches and weapons are associated with increasingly significant environmental concerns.

First, these propellants are typically based on a chlorinated oxidizer and a metal such as aluminum. ***The exhaust products of such propellants produce inorganic chlorine which causes transient and long term stratospheric ozone depletion.***

The metal oxides emitted are also potentially implicated in stratospheric ozone destruction.

In the lower atmosphere, hydrochloric acid emitted into the troposphere during launches, causes potential health and environmental hazards near launch sites.

Finally, the manufacturing of current propellants and associated motor components produce significant quantities of waste. Much of this waste cannot be reclaimed, recycled or reduced due to the chemical characteristics of these current propulsion materials and the operations presently employed.

Solid rockets are an essential part of the fleet of launch vehicles that carry DoD and national security payloads: Titan IV, STS, Delta and others. In addition, all strategic and tactical missiles use solid rocket stages. A new generation of environmentally compatible propellants with related components and manufacturing constraints is needed.....

.....Waste/Volume/Other Environmental Concerns: Each Titan IV (without SRMU) launch emits 48 tons of inorganic chlorine and 68 tons of alumina directly into the stratosphere and 78 tons of chlorine into the troposphere.

The same vehicle with SRMU's will emit 55 tons of chlorine and 93 tons of alumina into the stratosphere and 90 tons of chlorine into the troposphere. The STS emits considerably larger amounts of these substance into the atmosphere, while smaller vehicles such as the Atlas and Delta emit considerably less. The yearly SMC input of inorganic chlorine directly into the stratosphere from launch vehicles is approximately 300 tons.

The exhaust of the current generation solid propellants contain known and potential ozone-depicting chemicals (ODCs). These chemicals compose a large fraction of an estimated 36 million pounds per year of exhaust effluent from US space launch activities.

***Halons, chloroflurocarbons, and other ODC take many years to reach the stratosphere ozone. However, solid rockets release ODCs directly into the stratosphere where their harmful ozone depletion is immediate.*** Thus, improvements in propellant formulation will be immediately beneficial.....

..... The disposal/demilitarization of existing solid rocket propellant from large solid rocket motors (LSRMs) is a growing environmental problem.

Present inventories of LSRM propellant slated for disposal are at approximately 55 million pounds, and the total is expected to grow to nearly 164 million pounds by 2005.

Additionally, almost 7 million pounds of propellant waste is generated annually in the US in manufacturing current solid propellant. This propellant is an explosive hazardous waste and because of its cross linked chemical structure, it is impossible to reclaim or recycle all of the propellant components. Environmentally enhanced propellants are required to allow such reclamation and obviate the need to use alternate disposal methods (e.g. incineration) which are less desirable to EPA and subject to intensifying regulation.

In addition to stratospheric ozone depletion, launch of an LRSM generates 70,000 gallons of contaminated deluge water, and a toxic ground cloud containing inhalable particulates (PM-10), hydrochloric acid vapor, and a hydrochloric acid fog. This cloud is a hazard to the launch site personnel as well as a threat to the local environment.....

.....Minimal Success Criteria: The first step in the solution is to remove those substances from solid rocket fuels which are known to destroy ozone either directly or indirectly. Therefore removing halogenated oxidizers, ie. the chlorine containing compounds would be the most obvious approach. This would also solve the HCl ground-cloud difficulties associated with current solid rocket motor launches.

***However the chemistry of aluminum (and other metals such as magnesium), nitrogen oxides and hydrogen oxides are also potentially damaging to the stratosphere. These effects need to be studied in more detail.***

The ultimate solution to this need will be a propellant which meets or exceeds the performance of current fuel configurations while reducing or eliminating toxic or environmentally damaging emissions.....

-------------------------=>

And on the ground:

On 9/1/02 Unhappy Trails wrote:

Deborah wrote:
[The exhausts from internal combustion engines in our cities and on our freeways and airport runways produce acids and ozone and eventually smog.]

UT, that was not my statement. That statement was contained in the document I posted:

The Coastal Post - April 1997
Aircraft Are Screwing Up The Atmosphere?

Thank you for The Update on The Tree Decline Complex in California - excellent piece.

Excerpt:

.....**The answer is in the soil, which has been seriously impacted by acidic precipitation and acid fog in this area.**.....

posted 09-02-2002 05:03 PM            

Pacer, are you sure Prist isn't antifungal to stop the microbiological growth in fuel tanks? I was taught that it had those characteristics.

Ethylene Dibromide is a colorless poisonous liquid (BrCH2CH2Br) added to aviation gasoline to minimize lead fouling of spark plugs. Tetraethyl lead improves the anti-detonation characteristics of aviation gasoline, but leaves lead deposits inside the spark plugs. Ethylene dibromide combines with the lead before it solidifies and change into volitile lead bromides, which pass out the exhast gasses.

posted 09-02-2002 09:23 PM            

Some (actually many) chemtrail believers have, from time to time, jumped on the EDB bandwagon over the past few years, after rumors surfaced that the alleged chemical "they" were spraying was EDB additives to jet fuel.

You're correct about EDB...it's a lead scavenger, and it used to be in leaded auto gasoline and is still used in avgas. But it would serve no purpose in jet fuel.

posted 09-03-2002 02:54 AM            

word parsing humps like yourself...are really getting tiresome...

I will thank you for living up to true chemmie behavior and not answering the challenged I put forth to you (naming all chemical contents of jp8+100)

you have proven yourself a bullshit artist...ie : someone who let's one think they know something, but in reality does not...

you talk a lot but don't say much...

Interesting. You seem to be having a conversation with yourself, with poor grammar to boot......you aren't supposed to type until after you set the bottle down.

I could careless about grammer, never put money in my pocket...

it's no surprise that the bulk of chemmies result to insults, due to lack of argument...because substance has no home in a hoax...

let's see, the last 3 *activists* u/t a/t and you mask are just as full of shit as any of the others I have encountered in 3 years...

unless you have some details of the actual chemical makeup of jp8+100...I'll bid you good day....

and really shut the hell up if you don't, I have no time for bullshit....

posted 09-03-2002 05:06 AM            

Pardon my ignorance, just what is a "chemmie".

Someone who likes chemicals?

Last time I had a physical, I got a clean bill of health. I don't see anyone around me getting sick.

Why is it such a sin to question the validity of
"chemtrails"? Can't there be respect for differences of opinions and information?

posted 09-03-2002 12:08 PM            

As far as Mech's statement, I have no problem with people questioning the validity of chemtrails. I do have a problem with people that ignore numerous correlations and tend to only respond with antagonism or attempt to trivialize the issue.

posted 09-03-2002 02:41 PM            

Here's one post on this topic bear in mind it's already been publicly used in a test down in FL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LLNews/message/2570

Date: Mon Sep 2, 2002 2:29 pm
Subject: Method of modifying weather

( 1 of 1 )
United States Patent 6,315,213
Cordani November 13, 2001
Method of modifying weather

Abstract

A method for artificially modifying the weather by seeding rain clouds of a storm with suitable cross-linked aqueous polymer. The polymer is dispersed into the cloud and the wind of the storm agitates the mixture causing the polymer to absorb the rain. This reaction forms a gelatinous substance which precipitate to the surface below. Thus, diminishing the clouds ability to rain. Inventors: Cordani; Peter (1374 N. Killian Dr., Lake Park, FL 33403)
Appl. No.: 598660
Filed: June 21, 2000
Current U.S. Class: 239/2.1; 239/14.1; 252/194
Intern'l Class: A01G 015/00
Field of Search: 239/2.1,14.1 252/194

References Cited [Referenced By]

U.S. Patent Documents

2903188 Sep., 1959 Hutchinson 239/2.
3608810 Sep., 1971 Kooser 239/2.
3659785 May., 1972 Nelson et al. 239/2.
3690552 Sep., 1972 Plump et al. 239/14.
3896993 Jul., 1975 Serpolay 239/12.
4096005 Jun., 1978 Slusher 149/18.
4600147 Jul., 1986 Fukuta et al. 239/14.
5174498 Dec., 1992 Popovitz-Biro 239/2.
5357865 Oct., 1994 Mather 102/361.
5441200 Aug., 1995 Rovella, II 239/2.

Primary Examiner: Anthony; Joseph D.
Attorney, Agent or Firm: McHale & Slavin, P.A.

Claims

What is claimed is:

1. A method for artificially modifying weather by seeding a rain cloud comprising:

forming an aqueous solidifier material capable of retaining over three hundred times its own weight in water, wherein said aqueous solidifier material is a cross-linked aqueous based polymer; dispersing said material into a suitable cloud formation, wherein the wind generated by the storm causes said solidifier to mix with rain to form a gel like substance;

said gel like substance being of sufficient weight to precipitate to the surface below thereby diminishing the velocity of the cloud.

2. The method of claim 1 wherein said dispersion of aqueous solidifier is from an aircraft traversing the cloud.

3. The method of claim 1 wherein said dispersion of aqueous solidifier is from the surface below.

4. The cross-linked aqueous polymer of claim 1 wherein said polymer is a cross-linked modified polyacrylamides.

5. The cross-linked polymer of 1 wherein said material is between 50 and 4000 microns.

6. The method of claim 1 wherein the amount of said aqueous solidifier needed is precalculated based upon the size of the storm and the absorption properties of said aqueous solidifier.

7. The methods of claim 1 wherein said aqueous solidifier is biodegradable and nonhazardous.

Description

FIELD OF THE INVENTION

This invention relates generally to weather modification and in particular to the use of polymers to absorb aqueous solutions capable of modifying a weather situation.

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

Hurricanes, tropical storms, typhoons, and the like weather patterns can cause severe damage to land, buildings, and living creatures. The resulting damage from even an isolated event can be billions of dollars as evidenced by Hurricane Andrew.

Cloud seeding is a known process for artificially modifying the weather by injecting a composition into a cloud for formation of an ice freezing nuclei. Silver iodide is a well known substance used for cloud seeding. Ice freezing nuclei have the effect of creating rain, reducing hail, and possibly preventing rain by overseeding.

U.S. Pat. No. 5,174,498 discloses a cloud seeding material useful for seeding supercooled clouds in order to augment rainfall. The material used in seeding is defined as a aliphatic long-chain alcohol.

U.S. Pat. No. 4,600,147 discloses a cloud seeding method of inserting liquid propane from a rocket. The liquid propane is used to generate large numbers of ice crystals in supercooled clouds.

U.S. Pat. No. 5,357,865 discloses yet another method of cloud seeding. This invention includes the use of a pyrotechnic composition such as potassium chlorate or potassium perchlorate which act as nuclei for precipitable water drop formation.

U.S. Pat. No. 4,096,005 discloses a pyrotechnic cloud seeding composition comprising silver iodate and a fuel from the consisting of aluminum and magnesium.

Thus, the prior art teachings are directed to methods of creating rain. What is lacking in the art is a method of lessening the wind velocities of a storm.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The instant application discloses a method of modifying weather by seeding storm clouds with a polymer. The storm clouds are seeded by dispersing a superabsorbent polymer into the cloud in sufficient quantities to cause a large absorption of water. The reaction of the water with the polymer creates a gel-like substance that precipitates to the surface. Thus, causing an internal constriction with the cloud to lessen storm velocities.

A superabsorbent polymer is a resin capable of absorbing water up to several thousands times as its own weight. These superabsorbent polymers are prepared from water-soluble polymers, but have cross-linking structures which render the polymers water-insoluble. By taking water-soluble ethylenically unsaturated monomers which readily undergo vinyl polymerizaton, such as acrylamide, with the use of cross linking agents, a polymer can be produced that is of uniform small size, has a high gel capacity, is highly insoluble, but highly water swellable i.e. a superabsorbent polymer. (Gel capacity refers to the property of the water swollen polymer to resist viscosity changes as a result of mechanical working or milling.)

Superabsorbent polymers can be dehydrated to a powder. When the powder is added to an aqueous solution and agitated, the polymer is able to absorb many times its weight of the water molecules and a gel-like substance is formed. Superabsorbent polymers are particularly suited for uses where rapid sorption of aqueous fluid is desired or for uses where the swelling properties in water are employed.

Accordingly, it is an objective of the instant invention to present a method for artificially modifying weather wherein a polymer is used to cause wind dissipation by heaving weighting condensation with the clouds.

It is another objective of the instant invention to present a method for seeding a rain cloud with a cross-linked polymer such that the wind of the storm provides the agitation for the reaction of the polymer with the water.

It is an additional objective of the instant invention to present a method for modifying storms such that the solid end product is biodegradable and nonhazardous.

Other objectives and advantages of this invention will become apparent from the following description wherein are set forth, by way of example, certain embodiments of this invention.

DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION

It is to be understood that while a certain form of the invention is illustrated, it is not to be limited to the specific form or arrangement of parts herein described and shown. It will be apparent to those skilled in the art that various changes may be made without departing from the scope of the invention and the invention is not to be considered limited to what is shown and described in the specification and drawings.

The present invention relates to a method for artificially modifying weather by solidifying portions of a cloud in a storm such as a hurricane, by introducing polymers into the cloud. This method utilizes "superabsorbent" aqueous based polymers, preferably cross linked modified polyacrylamides which can be used in any application where aqueous solidification is permissible. An example of a superabsorbent aqueous based polymer is manufactured by JRM Chemical Inc. under the trademark H-series.

In the present invention, a solid form of the superabsorbent polymer, such as a powder, is introduced into the rain clouds of a storm in a suitable manner, for instance a aircraft may traverse the storm and release the polymer seeds or they may be released from a seeding flare delivered from the surface or from an aircraft. The amount of polymer needed is predetermined based upon the size and severity of the storm along with the absorption capacity of the polymer used. The wind of the storm provides the agitation that causes the polymer to bind with the water forming a gel-like substance. As a result of this method, wind based water storms can be artificially modified.

The use of a biodegradable polymer allows for safe use of the ocean wherein the high salinity of the water will expedite the degradation of the material. Various biodegradable superabsorbent polymers include carboxy-methylcellulose, alginic acid, cross-linked starches, cross-linked polyamino acids and a cross-linked modified polyacrylamides.

In a dry state the preferred polymer may be considered a particle having a diameter less than 4000 microns but greater than 50 microns. In a swollen state the particle may have a diameter greater than three hundred times its weight. In a totally water-swollen state, the particles contain up to about 99.98 weight percent of water and a little as about 0.1 weight percent of polymer. Thus, such particles could hold from ten to thousands of times their own weight. By seeding a leading edge of a violent storm, such as a hurricane, the winds cause a mix of the material wherein moisture is absorbed by the material causing a shearing effect. The shearing effect causes the polymers to absorb, lose, and reabsorb water countless times. During this exchange, the weight of the water being transferred allowing for wind shearing that assists in lessening the velocity of the wind.

The shearing forces are affected by the nature of the interactions between the particles during such collisions. When attractive forces dominate, the particles will aggregate and the dispersion may destabilize.

Example: A hurricane is seeded with approximately 30,000 lbs of a superabsorbent aqueous based polymer by use of a transport plane flying through the leading edge of the storm. Within twenty seconds the polymer will obtain over 70 percent of its absorption capacity or nearly three hundred times its weight. The winds of the storm will continue to disperse the materials causing a form of internal flocculation disrupting the feeding nature of the storm. When presented close to land, the storm will not have sufficient time to reform to its previous strength.

It is to be understood that while I have illustrated and described certain forms of my invention, it is not to be limited to the specific forms herein described. It will be apparent to those skilled in the art that various changes may be made without departing from the scope of the invention and the invention is not to be considered limited to what is shown in the drawings and described in the specification.

posted 09-03-2002 02:58 PM            

quote:

---

you have proven yourself a bullshit artist...ie : someone who let's one think they know something, but in reality does not...

---

Oh? What makes you think that? I couldn't answer your one question? YOU still haven't answered a handful of mine in the first place!

Also, you still have yet to prove to me that JP8-+100 is classified as a refrigerant (which was the original argument topic before you went off on yet another tangent).

It's funny how I'm a state and national qualified AC&R technician, but I have yet to see JP8+100 on sale in any of my catalogs.

If you don't have time for bullshit, why are you still sticking around here?

Frankly, I'm sick of your BS, which includes mangling people's posts to hell, then asking non-relevant questions which you know the other person cannot possibly answer, therefore, guaranteeing your short-sighted victory in whatever off-topic argument you instigated. AKA 'distract and attack'.

So shut the hell up already, unless you can prove to me that your claim about JP8+100 being classified as a refrigerant actually holds water.

'Nuff said.

posted 09-04-2002 01:29 AM            

enough already...

mask,

there exists a document that backs up what I say about r-134a having been added to jet fuel before, for the reason's I described, it is "official"...and I cannot produce it at the momment because I can't find it...it's on hardcopy...and probably lost, due to a water main break at my hacienda last week...(I can back that up)

and to clear the water a bit, I used jp8+100 as a example of how *materials* can be added to jet fuel...

you on the other hand took direct inference to my example, as what I was actually saying...which originally was a semi-sarcastic reply or question on page one (bottom) to pacer about sr-71 fuel :

is that the stuff that has R-134-A in it..

r-134a is a HFC, and pacer mention *hydrocarbon based*...

I specificly remember the document as referring to the use of r-134a on aircraft that would go fast and high, sr-71,u2 and fighter craft....

to sum up not one time did I ever say jp8+100 was a refrigerant,I posted this :

"At a certain altitude and speed, JP8 breaks down," Chavis said. "The additive adds about 100 degrees before the breakdown happens."

you were parsing words over terminology...I said coolant (below), refering to if a motor can operate at a higher temperature, then the old threshold would be cooler...

when I used the word "is" in the following sentence,was because the document I read I take as fact...

fuel boils in the tanks on it's own under those conditions, the r-134-a is used as a coolant...which increase performance and the distance of the flight...

so after all the mudslinging, I'm still right...and the question you put to me was unfounded to begin with because I never inferred it and deserved no answer...

I might have put it better this way the first time, but it was fun there for a bit...and yes a few chemtrail folk have pissed me off...has nothing to do with those per se', mainly I can't stand being accused as wrong...when I'm right...

cheerio ~pip~pip~

(damn I almost made it through this whole deal without an edit)

posted 09-04-2002 01:49 AM            

But you kept coming across like I was wrong, when in fact, neither of us were wrong!

ROFL

Sorry dude, I get hyped up over shit like that.

Hey, if you can find that document, that would be great, I'd love to see it.

posted 09-04-2002 02:45 AM            

I was reading another board and just figured out before my last post that if david is pissed at you...you could not be all bad...

>>document<<< just look for it...it may or may not still be available,a lot of things just disappear...I found it searching...

one thing, when I said a piece of the chemtrail puzzle, naturally I do not infer a directive...or program....

most likely an experiment....or test...wish I had the copy...

and yes we were both right...

keep that opened mind active...

posted 09-05-2002 12:07 PM            

'The report considers all the gases and particles emitted by aircraft into the upper atmosphere and the role that they play in modifying the chemical properties of the atmosphere and initiating the formation of condensation trails (contrails) and cirrus clouds. The report then considers (a) how the radiative properties of the atmosphere can be modified as a result, possibly leading to climate change, and (b) how the ozone layer could be modified, leading to changes in ultraviolet radiation reaching the Earth’s surface. The report also considers how potential changes in aircraft technology, air transport operations, and the institutional, regulatory, and economic framework might affect emissions in the future. The report does not deal with the effects of engine emissions on local air quality near the surface.'
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/index.htm