Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

posted 08-23-2002 04:25 PM            

---

Again folks. OUR troops are going OUT of the country including a LOT of National Guard while FOREIGN troops are being brought in. The next bit of 'terrorism' will be STAGED and BLAMED on Iraq just as the WTC was STAGED and blamed on Afghanistan. The U.S. had contacted India and others in June 2001 to position troops for war there. That's a topic that's too huge to discuss. Watch the 9-11 video FREE and ONLINE as shown above. It's all there save that the Israeli Mossad is working WITH SCUMBAG Bush SENIOR and his CIA on all of this. Check today's newsletter at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LLNews on the 23rd for info on the military.

Just keep in mind that those in NAZI Germany VOTED Hitler in. They too thought he was a good guy as he was setting up THEIR demise. History IS repeating itself here. If I tell you a train is coming while you're whistling on the tracks and you tell me it isn't.... it's not going to hurt me or that train one bit when you go SPLAT!!

The train IS coming folks. Pacer and Bonehead are whistling in the wind....

CHECK SOURCES FOR YOURSELF!!

Don't take my opinion OR OTHERS VERIFY FACTS!

Take a LOOK at the newslinks for ANY day but I'd check the 23rd too. Russia and China are maneuvering to attack U.S. and have practiced maneuvers THIS MONTH.

S P L A T ! ! !

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2002 04:25 PM            

---

hitech, sit down for a second and listen. I'm in the military. I was in the Army National Guard for 8 years before joining the active Air Force. Again, I fly to numerous other bases and facilities all over the United States on a daily basis. What you and your friends discuss in your personal backyard bunker doesn't really reflect what's REALLY going on around you.

Who cares that a field artillery unit is being called up? I was in an engineer unit for 4 years and we were trained for riots, crowd control and the like as well. Those FA guys are likely sitting around bored in some airport terminal picking their noses. Just because the artillery was called up doesn't mean that 155 MM shells are going to be falling on your town tomorrow.

And the practice of not deploying Guard/Reserve troops in their own backyards has been policy for a long time. It wasn't invented by Bush. It exists so that in the event the Guard has to be called to regain civil order, the troops aren't having to face off with their own family members.

"Verification comes in news stories every day"

I see errors in news stories all the time. And funny, but the news you find seems to only come from sources that you sanctify as being accurate. Do you get news from the very same internet magazine that claimed AA Flight 587 went down because the thrust reversers were sabotaged due to cut hydraulic lines? That was a huge fabrication, yet it appeared on Carnicom's site. Then there was another story I recently read that stated the US was purposefully disarming itself and stated the US has only 600 combat aircraft. Yes, how accurate (NOT).

"PEACEFUL protesters were attacked in Oregon. On and on and on. This has become a stinking POLICE STATE with 'dictator' Bush boy at the helm and his SICK CIA daddy pulling the strings. Military is being distributed throughout THIS country in preparation for total MARTIAL LAW. Roadblocks, Checkpoints and EXECUTIONS ARE in your future."

How about you come along with me when I go to central America. Then you can compare notes. There you will see REAL military interferance with the civilian government, real roadblocks, and real executions. Better yet, have you EVER been outside the US? Alot of people love to say we're a "police state" yet haven't even gone to Mexico, where the Federales will arrest you for a minor crime (like jaywalking) and try to extort money from you to go free. Most places outside the US share in the "shoot first and ask questions later" policy.

"Bear in mind that there have been MANY arrogant types like Pacer throughout history asserting that their civilization would continue and vehmently denouncing and demonizing others as 'conspiracy theorists' "

Have I demonized you? I only said you're wrong. Here's some denounciations and demonizations of me, from you: "arrogant types like Pacer"..."Pacer is about to go SPLAT!"..."It's ignorance of your kind that's allowing this tyranny to PROGRESS in this country. And it IS a copy of NAZI Germany too!"..."If you actually CARED about those kids as I do..."...

So, let's take stock. You claimed I'm arrogant. Then you made references that I'm going to go "splat". Then you said that my ignorance is responsible for Nazi-style government. Then you claimed that I don't care about the soldiers I lead. On and on we go.

I said that I disagree with you and that I think you're wrong. Yes, how shameful of me.

As for foreign nationals in the US military...it's also been common. One of my good friends from my Army days is a retired American Airline pilot who flew for the US Army. He was born and raised in the UK, and joined the US military as a British national. Mohammed Aideed's (the guy from Somalia) son was in the US military for a while.

The notion of foreigners in our military is common in other militaries too. During WW I, Americans joined the French and British militaries by the thousands. The Flying Tigers of WW II were American pilots flying for the Chinese Air Force. Many American pilots also flew for the RAF during WW II's Battle of Britain when the British announced they were desperate for pilots. This is NORMAL, and has been going on for decades. It is not, as you make it seem, something that Bush has recently instituted.

The bottom line, hitech, is that you, like other anti-government types, don't view the military as "part of American society". You act like the military is "them"...we aren't "them". We aren't some kind of clone army. We aren't test tube babies. We have parents, wives, husbands, children, just like you do, and we're US citizens just like you. We have varied political interests just like you. Some are conservative, some are liberal. Some are Christian, some are Hindu. We're a cross-section of American society. And we're part of YOUR society. The facts don't lie, hitech. The US military is overwhelmingly made up of citizens, NOT foreign nationals.

Senior Member

Seattle, WA
256 posts, May 2002

posted 08-26-2002 05:03 PM            

---

Yes, let's take stock Pacer. Hitech called you arrogant and you implied I was a liar.

I hope to God our military has been infiltrated with foreign nationals and they're the one's doing the spraying. To think that our own people would be spraying our own people really is a wretched thought.

Again I say Pacer, 'you' as well as 'we' are being kept in the dark.

BTW I'm not anti-American. I love this country. I'm just slightly embarassed right now to be in it considering our current government. Get Bush outahere, stop the war on Iraq, admit to the 9/11 disaster, get our guys out of Afghanistan, seize spraying our skies, stop the Oceanic Iron Fertilization project, dismantle the HAARP antennae array in Alaska, Puerto Rico, and Norway, stop the SDI project, re-sign the Kyoto Treaty, stop the drilling of the Arctic Wildlife Refuge, and maybe I won't be so embarassed to be an American anymore. Why is it that every country in the world hates us???? I wonder.....................................................

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Unhappy Trails on 08-26-2002]

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

posted 08-26-2002 08:40 PM            

---

People in other corners of the world don't hate Americans. Yes, there are some that do. But in my experiences outside the US, the people throughout the world are generally nice to me, and curious as well. The Americans they dislike are the ones that openly act like jacka$$es. But if you act courteous and mind your manners, you're generally accepted.

UT, I came close to calling you a liar, but you proved me wrong and I so stated in my posts.

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 08-26-2002 11:23 PM            

---

my gosh !

how many words per minute can you type pacer ?

------------------
T/S

Senior Member

Seattle, WA
256 posts, May 2002

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

Superior

ª×µ»ƒ³²²
694 posts, May 2002

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

posted 08-27-2002 03:27 PM            

---

"The military does what it's TOLD to do no matter how heinous"

Negative, Ghostrider.

Any military personnel that break US, or international law can be tried for a crime, no matter who gave the order to do it. Military personnel are REQUIRED to refuse to carry out an illegal order. And circumventing the Constitution, arresting civilians with no legal basis, shooting civilians with no defensive basis, and just doing anything contrary to US Code or the Constitution (which is the highest law in the US) is illegal.

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 08-28-2002 04:11 AM            

---

>>>ft.meade<<<

I always thought that AIDS originated from someone in africa who...blanked a monkey...that's "blanked" and not spanked....

thanks for the reply pacer...I'd say 135 WPM...just guessing...

------------------
T/S

Ventura CA
627 posts, Apr 2001

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

posted 08-29-2002 11:48 AM            

---

Bush opens door to foreign troops in America
White House wants Canadian troops to operate inside USA in event of terrorist attack
Washington and Ottawa are close to a deal allowing U.S. soldiers to cross the border and operate on Canadian soil in the event of a terrorist attack. The proposal, revealed by Defence Minister John McCallum yesterday, would likewise let Canadian troops take part in antiterror operations south of the border.
link

Secretary Rumsfeld warns US willing to attack Iraq without allies’ support
Donald Rumsfeld, US defense secretary, on Tuesday indicated the US would not wait for the support of the international community for a military campaign against Iraq, insisting: "It is less important to have unanimity than it is to be making the right decisions and doing the right thing". http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com /StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1028186086142&p=1012571727162

The Secret Sharers The CIA, the Bush Gang and the Killing of Frank Olson http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd0828.html
There is a thread running through modern American history, a thin red cord that weaves in and out of the shifting facades of reason and respectability that mask the brutal machinery of power. At certain rare moments the thread flashes into sight, emerging from the chaotic jumble of unbearable truth and life-giving illusion that makes up human reality. It appears, bears witness, then vanishes again, forgotten behind the next facade. But Ford, Rumsfeld and Cheney had kept the faith back in those dangerous days of 1975. They had honored omerta. Colby was not so lucky. For his sins--his "weakness" in allowing a few spears of sunlight into the shadows--he was summarily dismissed a few months later. He was replaced by a man who also lived by the code, who would keep the precious Agency--and all
its Gehlens, its torturers, its dopers, its shooters--safe from the mobocracy, the ignorant rabble with their pathetic fairy-tale notions about
democracy, justice, law and honor. He would guard the shadow world so well that one day the headquarters of the CIA would proudly bear his name: George Herbert Walker Bush.

History 101 - The Dream Is Dead http://www.rense.com/general28/sdhi.htm
AMERICA's problems, screaming at us from the headlines of the daily papers, are endless. What is our country's underlying disease? Is it terrorism? Is it our balance of trade deficit running into the billions? Is it a President who does not even think twice about shredding the Bill of Rights? Is it the millions upon millions whose credit card debts are staggering? Is it corporate executives who have no sense of morality? Is it the declining stock market?.


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 09-04-2002]

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

posted 08-31-2002 06:26 PM            

---

Hello everyone. I just got in today, and I can say I'm very glad to be back in the US. I spent 4 days in Central/South America....while it was interesting, it only reinforced my feelings of how lucky I am to live in the US.

Re: the person who mentioned they knew "many" military personnel who would obey illegal orders. I'm in the military, and I've met a few that weren't the brightest color in the crayon box, and *maybe* they might get duped into something....but generally illegal orders are pretty cut and dry.

If you find yourself killing and raping civilians (or raping anyone, really), then it's probably illegal.

If you're told to round up Grandma and the rest of the family to ship them off to the new gulag up in Detroit, it's probably an illegal order.

If you're told to "arrest", "pick-up" or otherwise detain a person who obviously does not belong to a certain category (ie POW, civilian who committed acts of war, etc), then it's probably illegal. In other words, just going to Bob's house to "take him in" because you were "told to" is illegal. Unless Bob recently attacked the Army with weapons, or if Bob is a member of an enemy military force actively engaged in combat against the US, then you probably should just leave Bob alone or let the civil police authorities handle it.

I don't know where you came up with that assumption that "many" military personnel "probably" would commit an illegal act. Did you ask them how they'd react to such an order? Probably not. You likely just assummed (using common stereotypes perpetuated by Hollywood) that military types like "action" and aren't the most well-educated folks out there and are gullible.

By the way...no American soldier, sailor, marine or airman has the authority to arrest an American citizen, unless that soldier, et al, is a member of a military police force and the crime was committed on a military reservation.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

Commitees of Correspondence

The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001

posted 09-03-2002 07:41 AM            

---

Pacer, I'm right there with ya'. 100% behind the troops. Welcome back. Sierra hotel buddy!

Most of us soldiers/sailors/airman would turn on our leaders if what these alleged accusations turned out to be true. The fact is there is no valid proof to them whatsoever. In fact I'd say most of the accusers have an axe to grind.

I'm no friend of GWB or G H.W. Bush either, but accusing military personnel of conducting domestic operations AGAINST U.S. civilians?

I would call that sky high rhetoric.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 09-03-2002]

Superior

ª×µ»ƒ³²²
694 posts, May 2002

posted 09-03-2002 12:03 PM            

---

quote:

---

Most of us soldiers/sailors/airman would turn on our leaders if what these alleged accusations turned out to be true

---

We'll see about that, bub.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

posted 09-03-2002 02:16 PM            

---

K, my words seem to have been TWISTED here as I said it was the stinking CIA and Mossad behind the 'terrorism.' "Axe to grind"??? Yeah! I'm not going to WAIT to say we've got modern day NAZI's repeating the takeover experienced in Germany. Orders WOULD be followed as I've said. Thing is, Bush boy's daddy has PLANS to get most of our guys OUT for the very reasons you cite. They're used well in DISARMING OTHER citizens in other countries for the UN under the NATO banner. Duh! They're using and bringing in FOREIGN troops to do the same HERE! And you're quite WRONG, there's plenty of PROOF EVERYWHERE for those with eyes to SEE. You won't get any court to convict and many have stopped hearing evidence against Bush SENIOR for 'reasons of national security.' The perfect coverup for his MURDERS, PAEDOPHILIA, DRUG RUNNING etc. Jr. laundered the coke money for daddy whilst working for Harken. Here's some more for eyes to see:

See US Forces Training with Foreign Troops Training to Put You in Detention Camps and Take Your Guns -- 3 Years Ago
Operation Urban Warrior http://www.infowars.com/ouwmar9901.html

You Wanted to Live in a Command and Control Slave State? These Guys Are Crossing Every "T" and Dotting Every "I." Now They're Running Ads in Movie Theaters Encouraging Kids to Join in a "National Day of Volunteerism" on Sept. 11th. Of Course, None of the Millions of Recruits Will Run into any Al-Qaeda, but There Are Plenty of Anti-Gun Programs for Them to Get Involved in.
New life for Operation TIPS (Operation TIPS was never in trouble, by the way -- and has been around for decades, as America has turned into a snitch culture) http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2002/08/30/tips/index_np.html

Skolnick - The Overthrow Of The American Republic - Part 14 http://www.rense.com/general28/skol911.htm

AND, it's not like this hasn't happened BEFORE either:

US 'Fired First Shot' At Pearl Harbor http://www.rense.com/general28/pearl.htm

Pear Harbor - The Mother Of All Conspiracies (Until 911) http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

Some of you 'soldier boys' best educate yourselves or just be prepared to DIE IN IGNORANCE because that's just what you is! Don't support America's REAL ENEMY which is its own commander in chief. It was Bush, Klinton, now Bush again. You're supposed to fight against ALL enemies both foreign AND domestic. DOMESTIC!! You're being SUCKERED and USED!!

Sorry if I've confused you with the FACTS!

Commitees of Correspondence

The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001

posted 09-03-2002 05:23 PM            

---

Hmm...I haven't seen a gestapo at my door yet. haven't seen any white armored NATO or U.N. troop transports in the streets and gee, I sure don't seem to have a problem moving ANYWHERE in the United States, wether it be by Car, bus, train, bicycle etc.

Conspiracy theorists and militia nut nitwits have been saying these things since the 1980's. I don't see labor camps multiplying like McDonalds outlets. I have not seen ONE U.N. marked aircraft on any airbase I was ever assigned to. Only either some German,Swedish, Dutch, or Spanish airman and pilots. Good chaps, very lively.

Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002

posted 09-03-2002 10:05 PM            

---

Even if we were to host foreign troops in our country, wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical of us to cry bloody murder when we've got thousands of troops stationed in dozens of other countries?

I sat there wondering how it felt to be Honduran and drive by an AMERICAN base sitting right smack in the middle of their country....they actually didn't mind because we're helping them out, but if they had even half of the conspiracy theorists this country has, there'd be a civil war there!

Hitech...how many countries have you been to? I've been to a number of them, and still feel that the USA is one of the freest countries out there....even more free than "liberal" Europe.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

posted 09-04-2002 10:23 AM            

---

Gestapo under the GUISE of 'Homeland Security' is getting ready to rise NOW. Numerous practice runs at sealing off the highways with CHECKPOINTS to catch those Militia have been practiced in Ft. Campbell Kentucky and elsewhere. It's BRAINWASHED half-wits like you MECH that repeat government PROPAGANDA that are an additional threat to this nation. Because of you parroting media LIES most people actually think Tim McVeigh had some kind of militia tie. When in truth, he was tossed out of the only meeting he ever went to. Most militia groups, (those without FED provacateurs) are willing to stand up for the Constitution that SATANIC Bush boy, Ashcrack and others are so busy shredding. AGAIN folks, (And I'm speaking PAST the peanut gallery here) Homeland Security was PLANNED in Klinton's term!! Let that sink in. All of these events have been STAGED. The 1993 WTC bombing was carried out under the direct orders of the stinking FBI!! Go up a couple posts and see the link for the FBI flyers in Phoenix. Yeah, guess what? The militia nutbags have been RIGHT ALL ALONG!! Those pointing Clinton out as a traitor were RIGHT ALL ALONG. Just as those pointing to Daddy Bush and Jr. as traitors are RIGHT also. 9-11 Road to Tyranny at: http://64.245.24.77/Alex/alex_jones.html WATCH IT and decide for YOURSELF. There were fools like these following Hitler's orders and thought he was a great guy too! Daddy Bushy killed THOUSANDS of our soldiers who thought he was a good guy, now Jr. is going to kill THOUSANDS more and take THIS country.

I Call It Treason http://www.rense.com/general28/treason.htm

Horowitz On 'America's New War' And Impending WWIII http://www.rense.com/general28/ww3.htm

Problem - Reaction - Solution http://www.rense.com/general28/probr.htm

The Phoney War On Terrorism http://www.rense.com/general28/phoney.htm

When The War Hits Home http://www.rense.com/general28/whenthewarhitshome.htm

Funding War Public Relations With Foreign Cash http://www.rense.com/general28/fundingwarpublic.htm

Russian Mogul's Planes Took al-Qaida, Taliban Gold To Sudan http://www.rense.com/general28/russe.htm

Best clear those cobwebs out of your skulls boys. You'll soon be fighting SOMEBODY soon or end up in Ashcrack's camps. The gold was Usama's reward for their participation in getting Daddy Bush's war going BTW.

Indianapolis, IN U.S.
499 posts, May 2001

posted 09-04-2002 12:13 PM            

---

When The War Hits Home
U.S. Plans for Martial Law, TeleGovernance,
and the Suspension of Elections
By John Stanton and Wayne Madsen
CounterPunch.org
9-4-2

Since September 11, 2001, the Bush Regime, the US Congress and senior personnel in the U.S. military have been busy planning their escape routes from Washington, D.C. and surrounding communities in the event that the continental United States is attacked by another 19 global insurgents possessing little more than wit, dedication, an unrepentant animosity towards America, and an ample dose of radioactive material packed inside an explosive-laden metallic suitcase. Corporate executives have ensured that they too will find a place in the bunker along side their effete government colleagues through organizations such as National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC). That group is composed of "up to 30 industry chief executives representing the major communications and network service providers and information technology, finance, and aerospace companies the NSTAC provides industry-based advice and expertise to the President on issues and problems related to implementing national security and emergency preparedness " Defense contracting giants play a prominent role on the NSTAC and include Lockheed Martin, SAIC, Oracle (the company that volunteered to develop a post-911 national identification database), Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman and CSC. The chairman of the NSTAC also conveniently serves as an ex-officio member of Homeland Security czar Tom Ridge's President's Homeland Security Advisory Council.
The U.S. government and its military and corporate officials are fond of making the pitch to the American public that the U.S. Constitution mandates that their survival, above all others, is absolutely necessary to ensure that the government that emanates from that document survives a debilitating attack. It is astonishing that the American public believes such absurdities. But one has to admire the boldly craven and callous "doomsday" planning of the Bush regime and its military centurions and corporate nabobs, who take pleasure in gutting the environment, the workforce, the economy, and the world in general. These are the same people who played hide-and-seek with the American public in September 2001.
We the People?
On September 11, 2001, one of the commercial aircraft commandeered by suspected Saudi and Yemeni insurgents made its final approach to its destination, the Pentagon -- located roughly three miles across the Potomac River from the U.S. Capitol and White House in Washington, DC -- by following Columbia Pike, in Arlington, Virginia, to its target. The Pentagon is located adjacent to the glitzy Pentagon City Mall in Arlington, Virginia, not Washington, DC, as much of the media conveniently fudged the geographic difference. Although not Manhattan, Arlington is a densely packed and diverse community of close to 200,000 people. It hosts five high schools and two notable colleges: Marymount University and George Mason Law School. When the aircraft slammed into the Pentagon, residents of Arlington--including many in office buildings, stores, and schools in the "South Side" -- felt the thud of the explosion as the aircraft incinerated a block of the Pentagon and killed 123 employees and contractors on the ground and 64 on the Boeing 757.
Arlington fire fighters, police and EMT units were on the scene at the Pentagon -- as were their counterparts at the World Trade Centers in New York City-- within seconds of the aircraft's explosion. In Arlington's case, the rapidity of response was due to alert firefighters and police officers who noticed the aircraft off-path as it flew dangerously low over the heavily populated Columbia Pike corridor in Arlington that leads directly to the Pentagon. They alerted their colleagues in the Arlington Fire and Police Departments that something was terribly wrong. Someone at the controls of the aircraft knew to pick up the visual of the "Pike" as it is called by Arlingtonians, the same way other pilots pick up the Potomac River on visual to land at Reagan National Airport.
Local residents scrambled to get their youngsters out of schools where the hallways were filled with the crying and unsettled. Teachers, counselors, and coaches did all they could to calm student's nerves. Local firefighters and police were busy trying to give relief to the Pentagon structure and its mangled people. Local hospitals were alerted to receive Pentagon injured. The same scene was played out in New York City.
As mayhem broke loose in Arlington, Virginia, adjacent Washington, and New York City, the response of those who are tasked with national governance provides important clues as to who will live and die during the next disaster. Prior to 911, the only insight into continuity-of-government planning was provided by Stanley Kubrick's Doctor Strangelove, which through its characters, portrayed dimwitted "leaders"--most un-elected -- sheltering themselves ahead of their populations.
911 Hide and Seek
Dick Cheney was hustled into a bunker and ultimately ended up in a cave running the Shadow Government. U.S. Supreme Court-anointed George Bush II and staff was whisked from an elementary school class--minus the children, teachers and school staff --- to undisclosed locations scattered across the land. Military installations barricade their gates. As F-16s patrolled the skies, government officials lauded the protection they were providing despite the fact that the fighters were there to shoot down commercial passenger planes. Leaders of both parties in Congress, and, in fact, all of Congress, were escorted from Washington, DC as if Gort from the Hollywood classic "The Day the Earth Stood Still" had gone on a rampage.
The Bush Regime's senior appointees and bureaucrats sprinted off to hardened bunkers or were taken by helicopter, like their military counterparts, to place like Site R in Pennsylvania to "monitor" the situation. Many of the local corporate senior managers and local newsreaders instructed the "public" to remain calm and not panic. A commonplace refrain from this lot was to "keep busy, be productive". The lone Superpower, with its arsenals and vaunted intelligence agencies convulsed from the handiwork of 19 insurgents, became enfeebled. In effect, the nation came under the rule of a tele-government. Undoubtedly, government and military planners -- and their think tanks - have discussed attack scenarios that include the institution of a Federal government tele-governing operation. Members of the U.S. Congress, Supreme Court justices, and the President and his cabinet could easily debate, vote, set policy, render legal decisions via encrypted communications lines, from the comfort of their protective bunkers, home shelters, and command posts on land, sea, and air. In the eventuality of nationwide martial law, these individuals, based on their cowardly performance on 911, would no doubt prefer the safe confines of Hitleresque bunkers. Such was the case on September 11, when, from the safety of a studio in a bunker and a phone line from a basement, the nation's "leadership" sought to govern in an ersatz manner.
The American public fell for this act from a "government" whose inserted president and appointees are the wealthiest Americans ever to oversee a US populace. And as the wealthiest and most corrupt person ever to occupy the White House uttered his inanities, "average people" were taking care of their post-attack communities in Arlington and New York City. As they suffered, the so-called civilian and military "leaders" ducked and covered in a classic CYA move. These are America's leaders who -- through sheer arrogance and stunning stupidity -- ignored reports from tireless FBI field agents that involved suspicious flight school activities and similar reports from gutsy Drug Enforcement Administration agents about the activities of Israeli "art student" spies who happened to be living in the same Florida and Texas neighborhoods as the future hijackers. The same "leaders" would stand by and watch the state of California get raped by Enron -- the Bush family's fund raising Ponzi scheme contrivance.
Where was the Senator or Representative, or Cabinet official (save for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld) who said, "I'm staying with the people" and showed up in the bucket line? Where was the General or Admiral who said I'm staying with my people and worked with the body bags? Where was the Corporate Executive who, instead, was busy turning "patriotism" into profiteering to gain market share and recoup profits? Where will they be during the next attack?
As the U.S. military-industrial complex sells more and more advanced weaponry to Israel, Indonesia, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Colombia, Pakistan, India, and Nepal and as more and more ethnic and religious minority groups, poor villagers, nomads, urban laborers, and sustenance farmers are massacred by national armies in the pay of ruling oligarchs and multinational corporations, will America's leaders care? No, it's good for business. After U.S. snubbing of the International Criminal Court (to protect war criminals like Henry Kissinger), Conventions on child soldiers and land mines, long-held international nuclear test-ban treaties, international protocols involving HIV/AIDS and global warming, will America's leaders care? No. When the Turkmens, Uzbeks, Afghans, Pakistanis, Azeris, Kurds, Turks, and Georgians tire of the special treatment that US Special Forces receive for guarding gas and oil pipelines -- and the young troops are killed-- will America's leaders notice? No.
Hand it to the CYA crowd, they now know that they can successfully sell the American public a rotten barrel of apples (or oil) and they will buy it gladly. Armed with that knowledge, the next attack may trigger enactment of national martial law.
Martial Law: Coming to a Neighborhood Near You?
The U.S. government has used martial law on numerous occasions, most often to quell domestic disturbances in specific locations around the country. According to the United States Constitution Online, during the War of 1812, Andrew Jackson imposed martial law in an area of New Orleans. When a judge demanded Jackson produce, through the writ of habeas corpus, a man arrested for sedition, Jackson ordered the arrest of the judge. in 1892 at Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, rebellious mine workers blew up a mill and shot at strike breaking workers. Mine owners requested that the state's governor impose martial law and, to no surprise, he did. In 1914, federal troops were ordered by Woodrow Wilson to end the Coal Field Wars in Colorado. In 1934, dockworkers in San Francisco initiated a strike and the governor declared the dockyards subject to martial law empowering the National Guard to make arrests and try detainees. The Supreme Court opined twice on matters involving martial law in Ex Parte Milligan and Duncan v. Kahanamoku. In 1866, Milligan's Supreme Court writers proclaimed that Abraham Lincoln's imposition of martial law had been unconstitutional:
"Martial lawdestroys every guarantee of the Constitution and effectually renders the military independent of an superior to the civil power--the attempt to do which by the King of Great Britain was deemed by our fathers such an offense that they assigned it to the world as one of the causes which impelled them to declare their independence. Civil liberty and this kind of martial law cannot endure together; the antagonism is irreconcilable, and, in the conflict, one or the other must perish."
In 1946, the Supreme Court ruled that the military arrest of two civilians in Hawaii during World War II and their subsequent trial by military tribunals was unconstitutional.
In 2002, with the U.S. Supreme Court nothing more than a useful machination of the Bush regime, it seems likely that if Americans become subjected to a Bush declaration of martial law, any challenge to it would fail miserably. With that thought in mind, its useful to note that the Bush crowd has had plenty of experience with martial law and states-of-emergency. In 1992, Bush the Elder issued Executive Order 12804 in response to the Los Angeles riots. Hence, the US Army 7th Infantry Division and detachments of US Marines were deployed to mop up Los Angeles. That order was only issued after the city's poor had destroyed their neighborhoods. As an aside, that event would expose the CIA's penchant for selling drugs to inner city youth to raise funds for U.S. government covert operations in Central and South America. Bush the Elder was the overseer of much of this activity when he lorded over the Iran-contra scandal while Vice President under Ronald Reagan. One of Bush's underlings at the time, Oliver North, came up with a secret plan, along with the fascist-oriented Federal Emergency Management Agency (the key-masters for the doors to the bunkers), to declare martial law in the event of a "national crisis," including "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition to a U.S. military invasion abroad." Florida's provincial ruler Jeb Bush signed Executive Order 01-262 on September 11, 2001 declaring a State of Emergency in Florida. That was prior to similar declarations in New York and Virginia where the action was. "Jebbie" (that's what Bill Clinton calls him) also has the power to suspend elections for 30 days in a county under a State of Emergency.
The Bush family has managed to involve the United States in two wars; two invasions in Latin America, one that resulted in the fiery deaths of thousands of poor Panamanian barrio residents and another that resulted in the Bay of Pigs fiasco; aiding and abetting through murky financial investments America's Teutonic enemy in the last world war; corrupting the U.S. presidential election process; and making the wealthiest Americans and U.S. corporations richer while at the same cutting federal health, education, and welfare budgets and offloading those tasks to the overburdened states.
As the economy sputters with real unemployment close to 8 percent and as income disparity reaches astronomical proportions, it seems that the Bush regime will begin another war. Will that war be against Iraq, as Bush's neo-conservative hawks want? Or will the Seven Days in May crowd spin the Axis of Evil roulette wheel? Will the arrow point to Cuba? North Korea? Venezuela? The Bush family's record of death and destruction prompted one elderly couple in Baltimore, Maryland (the husband being a highly decorated WW II U.S. Army veteran) to say, " The Bush family should be barred from ever holding political office. Look what they've done to this nation!"
And They Are Not Done Yet
An invasion of Iraq or any of the "Axis of Evil" or "Beyond Axis of Evil" nations is likely to result in a response that means American citizens will die here in the U.S. One incident, one aircraft hijacked, a "dirty nuke" set off in a small town, may well prompt the Bush regime, let's say during the election campaign of 2003-2004, to suspend national elections for a year while his government ensures stability. The precedent for such thinking is now enshrined in GOP politics. Another egotistical politician, Rudolph Giuliani, suggested that he should stay on as Mayor of New York a while longer past his term to make sure "New Yorkers would get through this thing". Would it be any surprise to hear Bush II say the same thing late in 2003 after insurgents would have destroyed part of a city or a chemical weapons cloud spreads over half of a small state?
Many closed-door meetings have been held on these subjects and the notices for these meetings have been closely monitored by the definitive www.cryptome.org. In the event of martial law, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has already been largely gutted by the USA Patriot Act and other Bush II actions, would cease to exist. Posse Comitatus has, for over 100 years, served as an important criminal law safeguard proscribing the use of the Army (later, the Air Force and Navy) to "execute the laws," except where expressly authorized by the Constitution or by Congress. With the abrogation of Posse Comitatus and the imposition of martial law, the military would, as it did during post-Civil War Reconstruction in the South, be able to arrest and detain civilians for any flimsy reason. Civilian detainees consigned to federal prisons would be under the control of the Bureau of Prisons while those detained by the military would be subject to the regulations imposed by military commanders. The writ of habeas corpus would be suspended and the family members and legal representatives for detainees would not have a right to see them. This situation has already occurred with those detained in the wake of September 11 without a formal imposition of martial law.
Military tribunals could, as they did in Hawaii during the war, try and convict U.S. civilians. If prisons could not hold all the detainees, the government already has plans to create or reactivate large prison camps in the South and West. Some of these were already used to detain Cuban, Vietnamese, and Haitian "boat people."
In the event of martial law, Draconian censorship laws would be implemented. Even now, the Patriot Act grants authority to obtain an order from the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) Court requiring any person or business to produce any books, records, documents, or items." That law would undoubtedly be extended to encompass the Internet as well. It should be of little wonder why the Pentagon has brought Iran-contra felon Admiral John Poindexter back from retirement to head the Office of Information Awareness. Coupled with the Office of Information Exploitation, Poindexter's office is seeking ways to identify, block, and determine the sources of seditious material posted on the Internet. Blocked web sites, confiscated computers and servers, and the arrest of non-conforming web site managers would become the rule of the day.
Not that it would need much in the way of pressure, but the broadcast media would similarly be required to air only that which has been approved by government censors. For example, U.S. Air Force scientists are soon to meet with CNN to figure out how to gather and disseminate information. During the war against Yugoslavia, CNN and National Public Radio hosted as interns U.S. Army psychological warfare operatives who worked on news stories concerning the war.
Similar closed-door meetings for "Continuity of Government" have taken place since September 11, 2001. Odd, it seems, that no "regular U.S. citizen" and few first responders have had any input into this process. Chalk that up to the fact that the entire process is classified and a matter of "national security" - the rubric that is used to justify the constant whittling away of the Constitution and its Bill of Rights. If the general public knew that "Continuity" actually means that the abilities of the Internal Revenue Service to continue to collect taxes, the Customs Service to continue to collect duties, and the Environmental Protection Agency to continue to collect fines actually outweigh the health and safety of American citizens, they would be outraged. Hence the secrecy surrounding the continuity plans.
James Madison had in right in 1794 when he wisely warned about "the old trick of turning every contingency into a resource for accumulating force in the government." The United States was founded by political sages like Madison, Jefferson, and Franklin. It will ultimately see its demise as a democracy through the likes of Bush II, his father, and the Trent Lotts and Dick Armeys that pervade the American body politic.
John Stanton is an Arlington, VA-based writer and Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC journalist and commentator on national security and intelligence affairs. They can be reached at: WMadsen777@aol.com
First published May 14, 2002 http://www.counterpunch.org/m adsen0514.html

Commitees of Correspondence

The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001

posted 09-04-2002 12:47 PM            

---

There is NO WAY people in the U.S., Especially
Veterans, would tolerate a police state. I know for certain I wouldn't, nor would I offer my sons and daughters up for military service either.I would like to see them try to take away my guns. Hurling personal insults does little to convince me to believe in what you are saying has any merit. If you can't repect others opinions,and just bash them (calling them brainwashed etc.), how do you expect them to show your opinions and sources of information any credit?

"Don't take my opinion OR OTHERS VERIFY FACTS!"
I can live with that.

I see nothing wrong with anyone thinking that our government is up to no good.Personally, I think we have more to fear from large corporations than the government. Just don't act so irrational when we tell you that just mabey it might NOT be the truth. I have stated my opinion, please repect it, and to all my brother and sisters in the military I give you a thumbs up. Thanks for all of your hard work.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Mech on 09-04-2002]