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Topic: comments on a 'debunker' site claims about barium | Topic page views:
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julianpenrod
Senior Member
west caldwell, new jersey, united states 82 posts, Mar 2002
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posted 12-26-2002 01:26 PM
Julian Penrod 4 Fairfield Avenue West Caldwell, New Jersey 07006 (973) 220-1601 julianpenrod@comcast.net December 21, 2002 To all: Circumstances can have many levels, and the unscrupulous are incapable of acting honorably on any of them. Because of that, unethical pursuits cannot be expected to be pursued ethically. More, underhanded acts cannot be expected to be in service to the noble and righteous. Those seeking to "debunk" concerns about chemtrails, typically, resort to a variety of methods. Because they cannot produce anything authoritative to demonstrate the "innocence" and "harmlessness", even "normalcy" they seek to appoint to chemtrails, they utilize a gamut of techniques from out-and-out deceptiveness to abuse. The unleashing of revealingly vicious denunciation and name-calling seems intended to dissuade those with weaker constitutions from pursuing the investigation of chemtrails. Misinformation seems calculated to defraud the unwary into doubting their own senses. And all of it is delivered with the contemptuous, dismissive, high-handedness of the pitiless and conniving. One such is a post by the individual giving the name Stuart Allsop, on December 18, pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1.showMessage?topicID=1029.topic, entitled, insipidly enough, "Well, that settles it: It ain't barium!" The upshot of the message is to "put the lie" to a frequent assertion that barium compounds have been observed in chemtrails. That the post was presented only here seems questionable, since, if it is intended to "enlighten" chemtrail opponents, it should be on one of those websites. Here, it seems to serve little more "purpose" than messages circulated among mental patients - equally dismissive, contemptuous and cruel in form - accusing the doctors of being crazy. Using the abusive tone so characteristic of material on "debunker" sites - and demonstrative of the nature of their pursuits! - it begins by referring to "one of the kooks over at CTTUSA". The post then goes on to list "the effects of ingesting 'high levels of barium compounds that dissolve well'". They are listed as including "difficulties in breathing", "increased blood pressure", "changes in heart rhythm", "stomach irritation" and "muscle weakness". With an almost rabid lust for "legitimization", Stuart Allsop proceeds to crow: "Wouldncha know it? Not a SINGLE MENTION of any of the famous 'flue[sic]-like symptoms!" More than that, Mr. Allsop continues "triumphantly" to declare that: "none of the kooks has EVER reported any of the above symptoms when they see 'chemtrails' in the sky." "That means", Mr. Allsop goes on, "that we now have proof positive that the trails they see in the sky do not contain barium." But it was never asserted that "barium compounds that dissolve well" were present in chemtrails! In fact, it is usually barium salts, fairly stable compounds, similar to barium sulfate, credited with low solubility, in a later post, which is mentioned as being present in chemtrails. Moreover, it is not anywhere asserted that the enormous levels, referred to in Mr. Allsop's post, of barium compounds of any form were ever deposited in chemtrails. Even enormously toxic materials, administered in small enough doses, can display little or no effect. And whatever effects miniscule doses can have can be significantly different from those of massive doses. The "debunkers" are among the first to insist that whatever "fallout" there might be from chemtrails cannot be anywhere near extensive; it is very suggestive that Mr. Allsop would be invoking the effects of massive contamination with barium! Nor, even, for that matter, is barium in any form ever suggested to have been ingested! The primary way in which chemtrail opponents represent chemtrail contaminants to work is through inhalation! Inhalation of anything can provide eminently different effects than ingestion! Salt is important to the diet, but, when inhaled, it can erode the tissue of the sinuses! Cold producing bacteria introduced directly into the gut would be immediately digested, and rendered harmless. It is the relative absence of such destructive processes in the sinuses, though, that allows bacteria to infect a body, when inhaled! To relate the two ways of introducing a substance to the body is reckless to say the least, and, likely, determinedly misleading! And, for that matter, to what extent are such symptoms as "difficulties breathing" and "muscle weakness" not similar to the flu? And "stomach irritation" can produce nausea, and any massive contamination of the body can yield headaches. To what extent do these effects not resemble the flu? Add the damage to the sinuses that breathing metallic salts can produce - and the fact that that, itself, can lead to contracting a sinus-related disease - and you have nothing less than, at least, an apparent onset of such an ailment! And all of this Mr. Allsop purports to demonstrate "conclusive proof" that chemtrails do not contain barium. Even if the effects of respiring barium salts were similar to those given, the "debunker" insistence is that nothing at the level of chemtrails could fall concentrated to the ground at all, for a very long time, so that no one reporting the symptoms mentioned above still couldn't be "proof" of barium not having been dispersed! The "debunkers" themselves demand that the contents of chemtrails cannot fall, concentrated, to the ground, so that, even if barium were present, it couldn't drift in large amounts to the ground! The "debunkers'" own "argument", then, completely obviates using the purported lack of specific ailment complaints as "evidence" for barium not being in chemtrails! If it becomes as dissipated as they claim, in drifting down, then one couldn't expect any complaints from concentrated barium on the ground! And that dispersion - and not the supposed absence of barium - would explain any supposed absence of symptoms! Mr. Allsop's declarations are nothing less than embarrassing. But they are par for the course, for chemtrail "debunkers". An ongoing attempt at character assassination by a number of other "debunkers" has centered around a number of letters I wrote for my wife, concerning fibromyalgia, and forwarded to fibromyalgia newsgroups. The letters had my return email. That, they declare, is proof that she is a figment of my imagination, and that, therefore, I must be schizophrenic! The writing style is similar, between the fibromyalgia letters and the posts I placed on Chemtrail Central. That, they insist, can only indicate that my wife doesn't exist, and that I have multiple personalities! "The doctors are crazy!" This is the level of "reasoned discourse" the "debunkers" engage in! And such eminent displays of lack of even the most basic reasoning skills receive no upbraiding whatsoever, from others on the "debunker" sites. Because, apparently, reason and understanding mean nothing to them. Anything that insults the chemtrail opponents is welcome, however, because, evidently, the fact that something mocks chemtrail opponents is sufficient for them to embrace it, whether it makes sense or not! Indeed, deriding the chemtrail opponents - and apparently deceiving the unwitting - seem all that matter to them! "Debunker" sites, then, seem of a type, replete with cruelty, deceit and fraud. And, where such tactics are routinely employed, it cannot be said that noble goals or decent motives are behind them. Where duplicity is employed, it cannot be expected the duplicity is not the aim! This is but one demonstration of the apparent patent malevolence behind the chemtrails. And is but one reason why concern about chemtrails should continue. Julian Penrod

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Mech
Commitees of Correspondence

The Minuteman State 6025 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 12-26-2002 02:07 PM
I can put it in a nutshell. These people are shills. They will only rely on "peer-reviewed", government funded scientific "fact".Even if these "facts" are slanted and distorted towards "advantage corporations/government"These are the same people who watch WAYYYY too much TV. DARE to think for yourself.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Mech on 12-26-2002] 
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