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Author
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Topic: Chemtrails Don't Exist | Topic page views:
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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist
East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 01-07-2003 05:22 PM
  
Let's not forget the USS Liberty. From the survivors, audio files to be heard in their own words...
http://ussliberty.org/voices.htm This web site is dedicated to the memory of thirty-four fine young men
who gave their lives on June 8, 1967, defending the USS Liberty
against a sustained air and sea attack by the armed forces of the State of Israel
During the Six Day War between Israel and the Arab States, the American intelligence ship
USS Liberty was attacked for 75 minutes in international waters by Israeli aircraft and
motor torpedo boats. Thirty-four men died and 172 were wounded. The attack has been a matter of controversy ever since. Survivors and many key government officials
including Secretary of State Dean Rusk and former JCS Chairman Admiral Thomas Moorer say it was
no accident. Israel and its supporters insist it was a "tragic case of misidentification" and charge that the
survivors are either lying or too emotionally involved to see the truth. Israel claims they mistook our ship for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir
and that we brought the attack upon ourselves by operating in a war zone without displaying a flag. Not so.
We were in international waters, far from any fighting, and flew a bright, clean, new American flag.
The flag we flew is on display at the National Cryptologic Museum,
Fort Meade, Maryland and can be seen there, or in the USS Liberty Images Archive. Our commanding officer, Captain William Loren McGonagle, received the Congressional Medal of Honor
for conspicuous gallantry and intrepedity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty during the attack.
The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award our country can bestow.
To avoid embarrassing our attackers, Captain McGonagle's Medal of Honor was presented in a quiet ceremony
in the Washington Navy Yard instead of in the White House by the President as is customary. The USS Liberty Web Page presents part of the story
along with some historical information and links to other sources. 
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Mech
Commitees of Correspondence
The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 01-07-2003 05:32 PM
Sacrificed on the altar of Globalism.
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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist
East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 01-07-2003 05:42 PM
This thread was started to state that chemtrails don't exist. And even though it has taken a turn to "other trails" type issues I'm not going to move it because I believe it lends credence to the argument that so many debunkers make that our government would not be behind such a program as chemtrails. Another produced monster for the globalist elite... Originally printed in the LA times. http://www.rense.com/politics4/kaz.htm 'Unabomber' Ted Kaczynski
Was CIA Mind Control Subject!
By Alexander Cockburn
7-9-99
It turns out that Theodore Kaczynski, a.k.a. the Unabomber, was a volunteer in mind-control experiments sponsored by the CIA at Harvard in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
Michael Mello, author of the recently published book, "The United States of America vs. Theodore John Kaczynski," notes that at some point in his Harvard years--1958 to 1962--Kaczynski agreed to be the subject of "a psychological experiment." Mello identifies the chief researcher for these only as a lieutenant colonel in World War II, working for the CIA's predecessor organization, the Office of Strategic Services. In fact, the man experimenting on the young Kaczynski was Dr. Henry Murray, who died in 1988. Murray became preoccupied by psychoanalysis in the 1920s, drawn to it through a fascination with Herman Melville's "Moby Dick," which he gave to Sigmund Freud, who duly made the excited diagnosis that the whale was a father figure. After spending the 1930s developing personality theory, Murray was recruited to the OSS at the start of the war, applying his theories to the selection of agents and also presumably to interrogation.
As chairman of the Department of Social Relations at Harvard, Murray zealously prosecuted the CIA's efforts to carry forward experiments in mind control conducted by Nazi doctors in the concentration camps. The overall program was under the control of the late Sidney Gottlieb, head of the CIA's technical services division. Just as Harvard students were fed doses of LSD, psilocybin and other potions, so too were prisoners and many unwitting guinea pigs.
Sometimes the results were disastrous. A dram of LSD fed by Gottlieb himself to an unwitting U.S. army officer, Frank Olson, plunged Olson into escalating psychotic episodes, which culminated in Olson's fatal descent from an upper window in the Statler-Hilton in New York. Gottlieb was the object of a lawsuit not only by Olson's children but also by the sister of another man, Stanley Milton Glickman, whose life had disintegrated into psychosis after being unwittingly given a dose of LSD by Gottlieb. What did Murray give Kaczynski? Did the experiment's long-term effects help tilt him into the Unabomber's homicidal rampages? The CIA's mind experiment program was vast. How many other human time bombs were thus primed? How many of them have exploded?
There are other human time bombs, primed in haste, ignorance or indifference to long-term consequences. Amid all the finger-pointing to causes prompting the recent wave of schoolyard killings, not nearly enough clamor has been raised about the fact that many of these teenagers suddenly exploding into mania were on a regimen of antidepressants. Eric Harris, one of the shooters at Columbine, was on Luvox. Kip Kinkel, who killed his parents and two students in Oregon, was on Prozac.
There are a number of other instances. Apropos possible linkage, Dr. Peter Breggin, author of books on Prozac and Ritalin, has said, "I have no doubt that Prozac can contribute to violence and suicide. I've seen many cases. In the recent clinical trial, 6% of the children became psychotic on Prozac. And manic psychosis can lead to violence."
A 15-year-old girl attending a ritzy liberal arts school in the Northeast told me that 80% of the kids in her class were on Prozac, Ritalin or Dexedrine. The pretext used by the school authorities is attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, with a diagnosis made on the basis of questions such as: "Do you find yourself daydreaming or looking out the window?"
Ritalin is being given to about 2 million American school children. A 1986 article by Richard Scarnati in the International Journal of the Addictions lists more than a hundred adverse reactions to Ritalin, including paranoid delusions, paranoid psychosis, amphetamine-like psychosis and terror. Meanwhile, uncertainty reigns on the precise nature of the complaint that Ritalin is supposed to be treating. One panel reviewing the proceedings at a conference on ADHD last year even doubted whether the disorder is a "valid" diagnosis of a broad range of children's behavior, and said there was little evidence Ritalin did any good. In 1996, the Drug Enforcement Administration denounced the use of Ritalin and concluded that "the dramatic increase in the use of [Ritalin] in the 1990s should be viewed as a marker or warning to society."
Indeed. Land mines now litter the terrain of our society, waiting to explode.
______
Alexander Cockburn Writes for the Nation and Other Publications Copyright 1999 Los Angeles Times. All Rights Reserved
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Common_Sense
Debunker
UK
68 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 05:48 PM
I'm not interested in politics. I'm telling you, from my area of expertise, why chemtrails cannot exist. I don't claim to be a political expert. Government MAY want to spray the public with nasty chemicals - im just saying they're not using commercial aircraft for this, and contrails are completly harmless.
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Mech
Commitees of Correspondence
The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 01-07-2003 06:30 PM
You better be sure.
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Feelin Kocky
A Member
Underground Weather Control Bunker
537 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 09:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by emfx13:
These are not commercial airline's that are spraying chemtrail's.Since when do commercial flight's make U-turn's?THIS IS A MILITARY OPERATION,all of you so called aviation expert's are in the dark! 
This is not contrails or chemtrails. These are clouds well below 10K feet (likely less than 5K feet. I consulted with one of my co-workers this afternoon and he said this was a phenomena that is actually fairly common. The low levels of the atmosphere were very very moist and these strands are mostly likely plumes from surface ships. Now whether you believe that or not is up to you (I think it is really wierd since I don't look at visible images off the west coast much) but I know for a fact these are not contrails or chemtrails.
[Edited 4 times, lastly by Feelin Kocky on 01-07-2003]
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Mech
Commitees of Correspondence
The Minuteman State
6025 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 01-07-2003 09:45 PM
Hey EMFX....Iwas right!!!!!
Funny how these so-called "ship trails" go in a U-direction totally missing the coast
Just WHERE are these "ships" going? In circles?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 01-07-2003]
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zoobie555
Tired, need to get to bed earlier.
Conroe, Texas, USA
185 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 10:46 PM
I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I know much about different types of airplanes military or civilian, how the contrails are formed and how various factors such as air density, humidity, temperature, or altitude effects the length of time a contrail lingers before it dissipates, or what flight paths a plane may or may not be allowed to take, because I know next to nothing about any of that. I won't even rule out that what are commonly being referred to as CHEMTRAILS may actually be normal contrails that act the way they do because of the afore mentioned conditions. I'd just like one of these 'debunkers' to explain why two jet airplanes crossing the same point in the sky at roughly the same altitude and within 5 to 10 minutes of each other, perpendicular to each other... why the first plane leaves a CONTRAIL that lingers in the air for 40 minutes, spreading out as it sinks towards earth, the second plane leaves ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRAIL WHATESOEVER...? Explain that one to me.
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 10:49 PM
Any reaction to the mechanic's statement from Pacer and/or PHX Pilot?
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 11:18 PM
Common Sense, this is in response to your posting(s) number 14.
AN AIRLINE MANAGER'S STATEMENT
Posted by C.E. Carnicom on behalf of the author
Mr. Carnicom: I read the email you received from the anonymous mechanic and felt
compelled to respond to it. I, too, work for an airline, though I work
in upper management levels. I will not say which airline, what city I
am located, nor what office I work for, for obvious reasons. I wish I
could document everything I am about to relate to you, but to do so is
next to impossible and would result in possible physical harm to me. The email from the anonymous mechanic rings true. Airline companies in
America have been participating in something called Project Cloverleaf
for a few years now. The earliest date anyone remembers being briefed
on it is 1998. I was briefed on it in 1999. The few airline employees
who were briefed on Project Cloverleaf were all made to undergo
background checks, and before we were briefed on it we were made to sign
non-disclosure agreements, which basically state that if we tell anyone
what we know we could be imprisoned. About twenty employees in our office were briefed along with my by two
officials from some government agency. They didn't tell us which one.
They told us that the government was going to pay our airline, along
with others, to release special chemicals from commercial aircraft.
When asked what the chemicals were and why we were going to spray them,
they told us that information was given on a need-to-know basis and we
weren't cleared for it. They then went on to state that the chemicals
were harmless, but the program was of such importance that it needed to
be done at all costs. When we asked them why didn't they just rig
military aircraft to spray these chemicals, they stated that there
weren't enough military aircraft available to release chemicals on such
a large basis as needs to be done. That's why Project Cloverleaf was
initiated, to allow commercial airlines to assist in releasing these
chemicals into the atmosphere. Then someone asked why all the secrecy
was needed. The government reps then stated that if the general public
knew that the aircraft they were flying on were releasing chemicals into
the air, environmentalist groups would raise hell and demand the
spraying stop. Someone asked one of the G-men then if the chemicals are
harmless, why not tell the public what the chemicals are and why we are
spraying them? He seemed perturbed at this question and told us in a
tone of authority that the public doesn't need to know what's going on,
but that this program is in their best interests. He also stated that
we should not tell anyone, nor ask any more questions about it. With
that, the briefing was over. All documents in our office pertaining to Project Cloverleaf are kept in
locked safes. Nobody is allowed to take these documents out of the
office. Very few employees are allowed access to these documents, and
they remain tight-lipped about what the documents say. Mr. Carnicom, I am no fool. I know there's something going on. And
frankly, I am scared. I feel a high level of guilt that I have been
aware of this kind of operation but unable to tell anyone. It's been
eating away at me, knowing that the company I work for may be poisoning
the American people. I hope this letter will open some eyes to what's
happening. Again, I wish I could give you documented information, but you have to
understand why I must remain totally anonymous. Thank you.
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PHXPilot
Your Mode C Veil is Showing
Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-07-2003 11:19 PM
Well halva, due to my lack of being an A&P or any type of mechanic, I cannot be too sure of what the procedures are in that area but I do know a couple mechanics that work for major airlines.#1: Theres no way in heck that you could have a complex routing of pipes and tubes running through the fuselage and into static wicks without an "unauthorized" mechanic noticing it anyway. #2: Having spray come out of these hollowed out wicks in large enough amounts to produce chemtrails as shown on this site is impossible. The wicks are extremely small, and wouldnt you think a static wick trailing a substance would catch the attention of someone? There HAS to be at least one deadheading pilot, mechanic, aviation photographer, or aviation spotter somewhere on the flight. Or at the very least a well traveled business traveler that knows when something is "different". Someone would most definatly notice. Not to mention that these static wicks are located on parts of the wing (ailerons,winglets) which would be impossible to run piping through.
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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist
East Central Florida
706 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 01-08-2003 12:20 AM
quote:
I'm not interested in politics.
How about freedom? The constitution, your civil rights? Your Lazy Boy recliner, the precious Super Bowl, Life as we know it? You don't have to be military or even an American citizen to care about the world we live in. Politics = petty bickering for the most part. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about abuse of power,lying, troops dying at the hands of their own leaders and usurping of our constitutional soverign United States by those only interested in implementing world government and a totalitarian system. How many more people's eyes have to glaze over at the thought of politics before we might as well just hand the bastards our country. WAKE UP. No matter what you think of us lowly people that may have a different opinion than you do Common_Sense, regarding chemtrails, we have to live in this world together. If you're a sincere person and not just here to debunk everything, than take a look at some of the information we've posted about the globalist elite and their sick plans. Check out the declassified documents for yourself, don't take our word for it.
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theseeker
One moon circles
Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 01-08-2003 12:31 AM
if I may add, I don't care for the idea of a one world government at all...makes me sick to think about it...there is a push for it and the threat is a real one...but when folks start accusing Bushjr. of being a part of it, it makes me angry...------------------
T/S
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PacerLJ35
Senior Member
Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002
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posted 01-08-2003 12:53 AM
There is a push in the world for a unified government body of some kind. Just look at how hard the UN and other "allies" pushed us to join the international war crimes court (which would give the UN the authority to search out, try and convict US citizens over and above our own national laws).On this site, it's often mentioned that Bush Jr. is part of the global conspiracy, and that the military is just waiting in the wings to be his lackey attack dogs to enforce it. Most Americans in military service are conservatives, and share conservative values. I don't agree with the assessment that our government is moving in the direction of a one world government, considering that the US has pretty much rejected most of the things that would lead to such a situation, such as the war crimes court, Kyoto treaty, etc. And from reading articles in military magazines and news sources, the US has watched with some level of caution the formation of a new EU "army" of sorts. This Army can borrow assets from NATO without NATO's consent...the US said "no thanks" to help form this organization.
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 01:52 AM
This is getting into the area of high-level geopolitics where it is easy to get carried away by speculation. Having said that, I have read Brzezinski's "Grand Chessboard" and have a hunch that his "globalist" orientations are mainly a disguise for a Polish and German-centred way of interpreting the world. To say that G.W. Bush is not a conscious globalist (how conscious is he of anything anyway?) does not mean that he is not serving "globalist" purposes. To take an example of from my Greek microcosm: Nicos Sampson who launched the coup against Makarios in Cyprus was certainly being helped along by elements in the American administration, but that doesn't mean they wanted him to be President of Cyprus. Perhaps the objective was what happened: to provoke a Turkish invasion of Cyprus. Similarly, the first Bush administration gave Saddam Hussein a green light to invade Kuwait, but that doesn't mean they wanted Iraq to occupy Kuwait: they wanted to trick him. I think these comparisons with Sampson and Saddam Hussein may be the most appropriate for Bush. He may be being set up in the same way by the "globalists". I very much have the impression that a gigantic trap is being set for the American government. Who knows: the chemtrails may even have their part to play in it. But all in all, if I were a middle American I would not assume that the best survival strategy is one of blind patriotic support for your government. The American government is not the only player in this game, and may not emerge the winner. There is a big difference between supporting the American constitution and supporting the American government. In fact I would say they are opposite options.
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theseeker
One moon circles
Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 01-08-2003 02:38 AM
To say that G.W. Bush is not a conscious globalist (how conscious is he of anything anyway?)personally I find that offensive...especially coming from a foreigner....he was a fighter pilot in the reserves got to be pretty damn smart and conscious to fly much less a sophisticated military craft...managed the state of texas for 8 years into a great place to live with a robust economy high wage jobs, solid education higher and public,no state tax and no tax on groceries...the economy education and employment was sinking under the previous govenor ann richards....and what have the greeks done for anyone or thing since socrates ? oh yeah ! GYROS !!!!!! Nicos Sampson who launched the coup against Makarios in Cyprus was certainly being helped along by elements in the American administration, I assume you have more proof than the word of an politically uniformed foreigner ? the first Bush administration gave Saddam Hussein a green light to invade Kuwait, but that doesn't mean they wanted Iraq to occupy Kuwait: they wanted to trick him. there's a doosie...where is this information located ? baklava alright too.... ------------------
T/S
[Edited 1 times, lastly by theseeker on 01-08-2003]
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 04:43 AM
I was addressing these remarks to a train of thought Pacer seems to have embarked on. I couldn't be bothered trying to teach you elementary politics, since after all this is a forum on Chemtrails.I don't care if you want to reduce everything to Americans versus the foreigners, but given that it is Americans who seem to be causing the chemtrail problem, for Americans, in the first instance, not just for us foreigners, I don't see how your method is going to help you. Is it "the globalists" who are doing it? They may have a hand in it, but do you see any sign that Dubya is standing up to them, in this matter of chemtrails? thatyhod ing others I don't see how this kind of methodology . to Amrwinto hing too nbarkep
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Common_Sense
Debunker
UK
68 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 06:56 AM
Politics is not my area of expertise. Aircraft is. Have I not made that clear already?Anyway, in response to your lovely email by the MX guy, it's a lie. There are thousands of people working on aircraft AS WE SPEAK. Either ALL of them are in on some sort of conspiracy, or there is no conspiracy. It is impossible to hide sophisticated and BULKY spraying systems on a commercial aircraft, ESPECIALLY when MX guys are looking at it all the time! Speaking of static wicks, you don't think they have to be inspected? MX people check out the wicks - how come only ONE has noticed they're hollow? Have you ever thought people are sending you these emails to wind you up......?
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/54570/
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 07:52 AM
Well, I thought the information from the mechanic and the pilot might enable us to move the debate onwards. It was getting bogged down and looks like getting bogged down again.I can't judge whether or not the mechanic's account is technically plausible, but I am making more concessions to your viewpoint than you are making to mine. After all, you don't even try to tell me why I am seeing the things I do. I on the other hand have tried to find reasons why, consistent with my experience, you may perhaps have your viewpoint. You have no better explanation of my views than to imply that I am a fool or a fanatic. This (the above-described situation)seems like a prelude to war, and in a war it is an advantage to understand politics.
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halva
Senior Member
Greece
382 posts, Apr 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 07:55 AM
Not only that but (in your final sentence) you talk to yourself.
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 01-08-2003 09:13 AM
EVERYTHING is politics, whether we like it or not. The question is: Politics of Happiness or Politics of Power? This mainly may be a chemtrail forum, but if we are being sprayed, I would call that VERY political. Everything that has opposing POV's, from the Shark "Approach-Avoid" duality, a dog snarling at you as you walk on the sidewalk, Bush vs Hussein, or debunkers vs believers. Common_Sense....Are you saying that chemtrails could exist, but not from commercial flights? Do you think the government has secret projects that average pilots, mechanics, and military would know nothing of? And what of antidotes for "The Chosen Ones" and their families, such as sodium sulphate and malic acid?
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Feelin Kocky
A Member
Underground Weather Control Bunker
537 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 09:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by zoobie555:
I'd just like one of these 'debunkers' to explain why two jet airplanes crossing the same point in the sky at roughly the same altitude and within 5 to 10 minutes of each other, perpendicular to each other... why the first plane leaves a CONTRAIL that lingers in the air for 40 minutes, spreading out as it sinks towards earth, the second plane leaves ABSOLUTELY NO CONTRAIL WHATESOEVER...? Explain that one to me.
First of all, if the planes are perpendicular to each other, (by FAA Rules) they are not flying at the same altitude. Any pilot can confirm this. The troposphere has many many layers and thin moist layers are very common (more common toward the surface). One plane leaving a contrail and another, at a different flight level without a contrail is not a stretch at all. By the way, I read somewhere else on this board that contrails lasting for several hours was unheard of until the late 90s? Here is a quote "...contrails may persist for many hours." (Meteorology Today - Third Edition 1988). I used to have the 1981 edition that says the same thing, but I gave it to a student.
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zoobie555
Tired, need to get to bed earlier.
Conroe, Texas, USA
185 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 09:40 AM
"First of all, if the planes are perpendicular to each other, (by FAA Rules) they are not flying at the same altitude. Any pilot can confirm this."You mean to say that two aiplanes cannot cross the same airspace perpendicular to each other between 5 and 10 minutes apart? What is the minimum time then that they must wait?
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zoobie555
Tired, need to get to bed earlier.
Conroe, Texas, USA
185 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 09:42 AM
Also, If you read my other posts, you see that I first noticed lingering contrails in the early 80's. You'll also find documentation of the air force dumping biological simulants as well as other chemicals over populated areas as early as the 1950's.
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Feelin Kocky
A Member
Underground Weather Control Bunker
537 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 01-08-2003 09:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by zoobie555:
[BYou mean to say that two aiplanes cannot cross the same airspace perpendicular to each other between 5 and 10 minutes apart? What is the minimum time then that they must wait?[/B]
Generally planes traveling n-s/s-n fly at even altitudes (10K, 12K, 14K...etc) and e-w/w-e fly at odd altitudes 11K, 13K. I may have that backward (I'm not a pilot). So the timing between them doesn't matter that much. Anyway, 5 to 10 minutes is actually a short period of time in the grand scheme of things.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Feelin Kocky on 01-08-2003]
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