posted 01-05-2003 08:44 AM            

Chemtrails don't exist, CONTRAILS do. Water-vapour in the exhaust of the engines condenses to form contrails. It's quite simple really.

I see no proof of chemtrails existing. Indeed, please explain how it would be possible to keep so many people in the aviation industry quiet about chemtrails.

Span-wide spraying systems don't exist. If they would, they'd be clearly evident. People sit in these aircraft every single day - there are COUNTLESS photos of aircraft wings, taken by the public on these flights that aparantly are spraying chemicals. Yet non of them show any sort of spraying system!

posted 01-05-2003 09:19 AM            

Nevertheless, it clearly IS possible and has now happened on a number of occasions, and possibly many more that we don't know about.

posted 01-05-2003 09:37 AM            

There are absolutly no external spraying systems on aircraft. Wouldn't you think the millions of photos of aircraft wings taken BY PASSENGERS on board the aircraft would show something?

Your uranium rhetoric is just that, and has no relevance to this case.

posted 01-05-2003 10:04 AM            

Even the good doc stated: "you Kanucks have somehow figured out how to make persistent contrails at low humidity."

posted 01-05-2003 10:07 AM            

quote:

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Big brother isn't watching you.

---

With all the problems you are facing with the commie known a TONY BLAIR, you might want to pay more attention to what is happening in your own country.

posted 01-05-2003 10:11 AM            

Your government conspiracy theories have no relation to the fact that spraying systems ARE NOT ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT. There is no proof of this. There is no EVIDENCE of this, other than a few non-experts declaring that contrail photos "look funny".

Please explain how a. thousands of aviation employees have kept quiet and b. how the countless photos of aircraft fail to reveal any spraying systems and c. how there appears to be no controls in the flight deck for such a system and d. how there appears to be no ROOM on the aircraft for such a system.

This is your theory, you have to explain it.

posted 01-05-2003 10:20 AM            

Are you speaking to me Common Sense? Yes, I posted that "Low RH = Trails" thread in this forum...why wouldn't I? My source the atmospheric reading is found here
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/projects/adds/flight_path/
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/

I noticed that you didn't address my facts at all Common Sense...hard data doesn't lie.

You said Common Sense: "It's your theory that chemtrails exist, the burden of proof is on you."

posted 01-05-2003 10:23 AM            

quote:

---

This is your theory, you have to explain it.

---

posted 01-05-2003 10:24 AM            

Speaking of hard facts, I notice you still haven't addressed the issues in my other posts. I'll reitterate them:

posted 01-05-2003 10:26 AM            

Ah so now I see. You don't want to explain your theory so I have to try to disprove your theory. Hocus pocus science strikes again.

posted 01-05-2003 11:29 AM            

Is that your common sense speaking? That's a cop-out IMO.If atmospheric readings at various altitiudes is so hard to measure then why is the ADD website up in the first place? A function of...? more disinfo perhaps? Perhaps canex would like to answer this question as to why trails are persisting when readings indicate they shouldn't be?

As to your questions common Sense--

"Please explain how a. thousands of aviation employees have kept quiet"

Surely you have heard of the concept need to know? Can you prove that thousands of aviation employees indeed know about chemtrails but are keeping quiet, or are you just speculating?

Your other questions I cannot answer. I haven't taken any telephoto pictures of aircraft in flight nor visited any airfields. Although Jay Reynolds did suggest I start hanging out at the local airport lounge and get to know some pilots so I could ask them all about contrails.

"The fact remains that there is no evidence of spraying systems on commercial aircraft."

What about military aircraft common Sense? Have you read Thermit's Trail Research Report yet?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml

posted 01-05-2003 11:39 AM            

Easy to measure on a one off basis, hard to measure or predict day to day.

Surely you have heard of the concept need to know? Can you prove that thousands of aviation employees indeed know about chemtrails but are keeping quiet, or are you just speculating?

Chemtrail "experts" are in love with the 757, so lets have a look at that shall we? Given how pilot rostering works, and that at least one crew member would have to be aware of the system (say the commander [captain, in the US]) then all 757 captains at a certain airline/all US airlines would have to know about it. Furthermore, a lot of MX people would have to know about it. Presumably any spray system isn't a MEL item, but MX crew would still need to know how to service the damn thing. Then you have the military, who are obviously involved with it, the companies that manufacture the systems and the designers who put it on the aircraft.

Quite a lot of people, no?

Your other questions I cannot answer. I haven't taken any telephoto pictures of aircraft in flight nor visited any airfields.

I've posted photos of aircraft, you could comment on them?

Although Jay Reynolds did suggest I start hanging out at the local airport lounge and get to know some pilots so I could ask them all about contrails.

You can try if you want, see how you get laughed at.

What about military aircraft common Sense? Have you read Thermit's Trail Research Report yet?

I'm merely talking about commercial aircraft. Chemtrail "experts" claim commercial aircraft are involved, I'm showing how they can't be.

David,

I don't really care what you think about me, or what you believe. It's interesting that you've answered non of my points, and I hope the more reasonable viewers of this forum realise the significance of that.

posted 01-05-2003 12:15 PM            

Why would I get laughed at for asking pilots about contrails CS? this makes no sense to me...

"hard to measure or predict day to day."

hmmmm could you please provide proof/back-up to this claim? Surely with all our technological breakthroughs we can at least accurately measure the atmosphere? I mean we have the technology to produce hover drones that can see through walls...

"Chemtrail "experts" are in love with the 757"

They are? This is news to me. Could you provide links which prove that chemtrail experts are in love with 757s? TIA.

"I've posted photos of aircraft, you could comment on them?"

Sure I could comment on them but I am no aircraft expert. Could you provide a link to these pictures?

"I'm merely talking about commercial aircraft. Chemtrail "experts" claim commercial aircraft are involved, I'm showing how they can't be."

Ah so you are ignoring Thermit's Trail Research Report for now? That's fine...perhaps you would like to comment on it at a future time?

posted 01-05-2003 12:33 PM            

Hey Mr Pilot, do you have spraying equipment fitted to your aircraft that lets you spray the population with chemicals? I know I'd laugh.

Surely with all our technological breakthroughs we can at least accurately measure the atmosphere?

You can't even say what the temperature at 40,000ft until another aircraft tells you. High-altitude turbulence is predicted only using other aircraft that report WX.

They are? This is news to me. Could you provide links which prove that chemtrail experts are in love with 757s? TIA.

On another contrail site I saw numerous photos of 757s with "deadly chemical trails" following them. It is obviously a plane that is claimed to have spraying systems.

Sure I could comment on them but I am no aircraft expert. Could you provide a link to these pictures?

Look above. You're no aircraft expert, yet you're saying that these aircraft are fitted with spraying systems?

Ah so you are ignoring Thermit's Trail Research Report for now? That's fine...perhaps you would like to comment on it at a future time?

I'm not ignoring it. My area of expierence is commercial aircraft, which is why I'm commenting on.

I'm not like you. If I don't have knowledge of something I don't make claims about it, unlike you with your "commercial aircraft have spraying systems" claim.

posted 01-05-2003 12:45 PM            

I said ask pilots about CONTRAILS not spraying equipment! Nor did I mention asking them about CHEMICALS. Sheeesh.

"On another contrail site I saw numerous photos of 757s with "deadly chemical trails" following them. It is obviously a plane that is claimed to have spraying systems."

and the link to this site would be? Or are we to just take your word without proof?

CS said also: "Look above. You're no aircraft expert, yet you're saying that these aircraft are fitted with spraying systems?"

Where did I say that these aircraft are fitted with spraying systems? Again you make NO SENSE!!!

"If I don't have knowledge of something I don't make claims about it, unlike you with your "commercial aircraft have spraying systems" claim."

More BS common Sense! Please show me where I said this!!

posted 01-05-2003 01:16 PM            

I don't see how a commercial PILOT would know WHAT went into a planes jet fuel anyway.I never saw them take a fuel sample. I don't see how a commercial pilot would know about certain closely guarded military planes that even most military presonnel can't get close to.

Yep, they are 100% bought and paid for. I'll be willing to bet they still think George Bush is an honest man too.

Having a degree DOES NOT give you an exclusive license to claim superior knowlage over everyone else.

posted 01-05-2003 02:12 PM            

As far as Big Brother is concerned. I don't think it matters much whether or not he is watching us. We live not in traditional dictatorship but what might be called "democratorship". If there is control over important inputs Big Brother doesn't have to worry very much about what a few people like us say here.

But there are strange geopolitical games being played at the moment. Chemtrails could be a provocation that has its place in those.

The initiator of this thread, with his talk of his university qualifications and so on, is to put it mildly ridiculous. He doesn't have the first clue about the politics of the present international situation, and as for his knowledge of civil aviation and so on, of what relevance is it when everything points to chemtrails being an affair of the military, at least at the executive level.

posted 01-05-2003 02:55 PM            

PROVE what he says isn't true! Can you?

NAME what he says isn't true.

Seems to me you are caught in the old "left vs. right" argument. Have you ever considered that those on the "left" in the Euro Union are not working in your best interest...rather for the globalists?

What are you expecting? A government solution or an elitist solution? Or in other words....TYRANT A or TYRANT B.

The PEOPLE will be the ones who will change everything...not because of the "kind hearts" of the politicians or the elite.To believe that government/corporations can give you freedom is to be a slave. As it has always been throughout history.

Is that too right wing for you?

posted 01-05-2003 05:07 PM            

"Big brother isn't watching us"?.... Puhleeez! Lulu can give you a better run down on the .mils and .govs that visit on a regular basis than I can. That doesn't even cover individual hard drive probes and worm problems that have been reported.

And as for "chemtrail experts" and what they believe. I have been a member here for years and from Thermit the capt. of this ship to our newest members there has never been a claim of "expert" by any other than pilots, those that claim phd's,(or other alphabet alumni)from the debunkorama.

The few member's that have claimed to KNOW what is going on (regarding chemtrails) in the past usually end up to be completely unhinged and banned sooner or later for posting infractions.

The rest of us are simply asking questions and looking for answers. Most chemtrail reporters don't seem to bother to toot their own horns in regards to academic pedigrees. Communicating with these folks off the board I know they have them!

We stick to observations and for the most part polite comments and debate. (OK you regulars...so we flame throw and squabble but for Common_Sense's sake let's catagorize this debate for the time being)

Really C_S, we have seen and heard all of this before. And you didn't even start off nice about it.

posted 01-05-2003 06:34 PM            

Also, almost 3 weeks ago, CNN Headline News stated something like . . "today the astronauts are taking a walk in space and tomorrow they'll be releasing chemicals in the air to alter weather patterns . . now onto the sports!!"

Don't think we're too crazy watching . . as I'm doing presently in Arizona . . chemtrails being laid in awkward formations and dissapating "genuine" clouds rolling in -- this has been going on daily for months which is definitely causing our drought!

Climatologists here cannot explain the "splitting" of the storm tracks over Arizona.
Nothing in history has ever duplicated this! This appears to be an artificially created high pressure dome over the state.

How many times in history has the gov't been successful in keeping secrets from the public? How many times did the Stealth aircraft fly before the public was made aware? Little by little what "they're" up to will come to the surface . . truth always wins-it just takes a little time.

Airborne levels of barium and aluminum have been documented and reported in various parts of the world (see reports from Canadian findings). Since these are not naturally occuring elements, then what's your explanation for this?