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Topic: What are the X's for? | Topic page views:
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PacerLJ35
Senior Member
Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002
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posted 03-07-2003 06:37 PM
   
I challenge anyone on this board to provide conclusive proof that any of the dissenting voices labeled as "debunkers" are in the employ of the U.S. government, or some weirdo "new world order" regime.And no, just because we post here doesn't mean we're automatically government agents. That's not evidence in the real world...it's called speculation. Oh, wait...I'm in chemtrail world here...speculation + publication in speculative web-based "news" service = evidence. Sorry, my bad. Post-script: Many people use sources such as Rense.com and other affiliated and like-minded web publications to provide "proof" of chemtrail ops. Rense.com is also used as a source of information about various other government plots. Yet one story used by a "chemtrail activist" mentioned that 17 generals were aboard an Air Force C-21 bound to Washington to "arrest" Clinton for crimes, and mysteriously crashed in Alabama. I'm closely related to that event, and for one, a C-21 can't carry 17 people (about 8), and it was going FROM Washington to San Antonio, TX, and the cause of the accident is widely known. And a military general does not have the authority to "arrest" anyone, much less the President. That story soured me forever on Rense, and convinced me that anything that comes from that site is speculative garbage based upon third, fourth and fifth-party guesswork. 
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X marks the spot
New Member
13 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 03-08-2003 05:23 AM
Hey...Stop demanding proof on things that are not provable, ya nitwit. Why don't you tell me how the average citizen is going to absolutely PROVE chemtrails, or be able to PROVE that any of you flunkies are on the government payroll. Shaddup. ------------------
A deceived person does not know that they are deceived. If they did, then they wouldn't be deceived. A deceived person may be sincere, but sincerely wrong.
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PHXPilot
Your Mode C Veil is Showing
Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 03-08-2003 10:20 AM
Were finally getting somewhere.Why don't you tell me how the average citizen is going to absolutely PROVE chemtrails Cameras are your best friend 'X'. Whenever you take a flight, sit behind the wing. If you see a little doohicky pop out of the wing and spray thousands of gallons of chemicals out, then take a photo. If your down at the airport picking someone up, take a camera. If you see an airliner taxiing by with strange equipment all over the place, take a photo. If you see an aircraft making "chemtrails" acting strangely, take a photo. Now, by "strangely" I dont mean some weird "Oh! He turned north! NAZIS!!" argument. I mean REALLY weird. You should be able to prove chemtrails. If it exists, there should be evidence.
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PacerLJ35
Senior Member
Millbrook, AL, USA
456 posts, Apr 2002
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posted 03-08-2003 10:37 PM
"Stop demanding proof on things that are not provable, ya nitwit"Then perhaps you should stop making claims based upon the notion that it's unprovable. If I say I'm not an agent, you say I am. I say "prove I'm on the payroll" you say "you can hide it". On and on. I've shown photos of myself, even told people they can come on down here to Maxwell AFB and see what I do, yet they still said "maybe you're just pretending to be a military pilot, while all along you're a CIA/NSA/Illuminati (insert organization of choice) plant designed to spread disinformation"....sure...and I went through flight school twice (a pain in the arse in itself) *just* to fit in... Oh no, the much more simpler explanation (that I'm *actually* a military pilot who occasionally gets online and posts my opinions here, sans government disinfo agent pay) just makes TOO much sense!
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Cutlass80R2
New Member
5 posts, Mar 2003
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posted 03-08-2003 11:47 PM
9 pages debating why aircraft paths regularly cross over Rochester, NY? The Rochester VOR (ROC) is one of the primary en-route fixes in and out of the entire Northeast Corridor. You'll see this same affect over many other areas, such as Albany (ALB), Syracuse (SYR), Jamestown (JHW)and so on. It would probably be an eye-opening experience for you guys to buy an enroute low altitude IFR chart of your region. You would notice that most, if not all of these "suspicous" contrail intersections occur over ground-based navigation beacons. This is simply how the national airspace system is set up! These places are nothing more than intersections in the sky for all air traffic. Yes, with new nav technology like INS, FMS, and GPS we can fly anywhere point-to-point, but that would wreak havoc on the air traffic control system so it isn't done much, ESPECIALLY in the crowded northeast. Airways, VOR's and intersections are still the rule.
Joe
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 08:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by the professor:
Capt are you a socialist? liberal or commie?
I find that comment very telling. We barely
have any of the freedoms we used to and to
say we should not be able to is just a shittier statement. The public got apathetic
when our government was infiltrated from within and chose to overlook. I somewhat
understand our founding fathers wanting to
hang themselves but for entirely for
different reasons. The publis is supposed
to be we the people.
None of the above and you couldn't be further from the truth regarding freedoms. Name ONE freedom we don't have today (other than illegal drugs, if you're for legalizing them you are obviously a Libertarian which is why we would NEVER get along). I'm not saying there's too much freedom, but I also believe there are a lot better ways to protect the public that others say would infringe on our freedom. The public has also become an ignorant mass. THAT'S why I say the founding fathers would hang themselves. They would NOT agree that "We the People" would be in any way fit to govern themselves any more.
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David
Chemtrail Information Agent
1290 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 03-11-2003 09:57 AM
Your trying to convince people that it's OK to take away some freedoms is a tough sell Capt. Much harder than selling real estate, Capt Walker. 
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 03:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David:
Your trying to convince people that it's OK to take away some freedoms is a tough sell Capt. Much harder than selling [b]real estate, Capt Walker. [/B]
I wouldn't expect to convince anyone here of giving up the smallest freedom. I don't mean to stereotype, but I'd have to guess most CT believers are much futher to the side of Libertarian than Authoritarian. I have no delusions of swinging anybody here over to a more centrist vision. I was merely replying to the fact that there are stances in between Liberalism and Communism. BTW, are you a moderator here?
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theseeker
One moon circles
Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-11-2003 03:37 PM
Name ONE freedom we don't have today (other than illegal drugs, if you're for legalizing them you are obviously a Libertarian which is why we would NEVER get along).captian, how many billions have been spent in the non-effective war on drugs ? don't you think education would be a better place for that money ? I'm not advocating drug use, welfare is another bottomless pit of tax dollars that needs to be eliminated...but simply put, pot could be legal...and make it 20 years to life on the real drugs...that's called a real war on drugs... I'm not saying there's too much freedom, but I also believe there are a lot better ways to protect the public that others say would infringe on our freedom. this gets old...the reason we were attacked on 9/11 was the INS did not do their job...it's that damn simple...all this homeland security stuff I am basically neutral on leaning against...at this point in time... The public has also become an ignorant mass. THAT'S why I say the founding fathers would hang themselves. They would NOT agree that "We the People" would be in any way fit to govern themselves any more. hmmm...I agree to some extent with your first sentence...the people govern by electing represenatives...are you saying that we should not be allowed to vote anymore ?
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 03-11-2003 03:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CaptWalker:
None of the above and you couldn't be further from the truth regarding freedoms. Name ONE freedom we don't have today (other than illegal drugs, if you're for legalizing them you are obviously a Libertarian which is why we would NEVER get along). I'm not saying there's too much freedom, but I also believe there are a lot better ways to protect the public that others say would infringe on our freedom.
Does the Captain drink alcohol?
Seeker,
You propose eliminating welfare. Fair enough. But what if a person is physically or mentally incapable of working?
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 04:09 PM
Not sure this is the right place for this discussion, but what the hell?don't you think education would be a better place for that money ?...I'm not advocating drug use, welfare is another bottomless pit of tax dollars that needs to be eliminated...but simply put, pot could be legal...and make it 20 years to life on the real drugs... Ahhh, an LP member?  Seeker, since when is pot not a real drug? The effects of pot can be far worse than some other illegal drugs, it's just not as expensive. Did you know that one of the Lib Party's stances on making drugs legal is that it would make them cheaper so an addict could pay for their addiction with "honest work"! Don't stop the addiction, just make it more affordable so more people could have an addiction. That doesn't seem ridiculous to you? http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html the reason we were attacked on 9/11 was the INS did not do their job Kinda tough for the INS to do their job with open borders, NO "electronic or other means of covert surveillance of an individual's actions or private property without the consent of the owner or occupant", NO "issuance by the government of an identity card" and a foreign policy that doesn't allow operatives to nab the bad guys before they get to the US! You think under an LP platform we'd be in any way safe to even walk the streets? Oh that's right, in an LP world everybody is packing heat, just like the ole wil' west! the people govern by electing represenatives...are you saying that we should not be allowed to vote anymore ? You are correct, poor choice of words on my part. I was getting at the fact that the founding fathers thought that John Doe could handle a lot of personal responsibility and live civilly with each other. IMO (and I am saddened by this) people's goodwill towards others has been completely thrown out the window... riots after sports teams win championships, road rage, total emphatuation with sensationalized reality TV, computer viruses and cyber criminals, WMD, date rape drugs, terrorism on every continent.... you still think that the founding fathers would have faith in providing 100% liberty to the people of this world? I wish I could believe that!
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 04:11 PM
"Does the Captain drink alcohol?"Last time I looked, we have that liberty. My question was what liberties don't we have today. It's been 70 years since they repealed prohibition.
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 03-11-2003 04:31 PM
OK, then you are a hypocrite. Alcohol is the most dangerous of legal drugs. Makes you stupid, impotent, and violent. Marijuana on the opposite. Increase blood flow to the brain, 100 times better than booze for sex, eases stomach problems, enhances creativity, and is not addictive. The only 2 dangers are arrest and lung damage from overuse. The fact is this. Linear thinkers like Linear drugs. Exponential thinkers like exponential drugs. That twain will never meet.
And please don't quote the stale and boring statement, "It leads to harder drugs". every junkie that I have ever seen started with alcohol first.
Whatever happened to Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness? Oh I forgot, that's in The Constitution, that obsolete piece of paper.
On your question of what liberties are gone. It's on paper that if you critisize the government, you are an "enemy combatant" for one. The only Constitutional Amendment that Bush and Co. haven't touched YET is the 2nd. The reason is simple. Not to lose a substantial amount of votes. He went against the Pope last week, so there goes the Catholic vote, which was 25% of his base. The libertarians and liberals are vehemently opposed to him, as are traditional conservatives.
When will the signpost for you be, to indicate we have lost our freedom? I already have seen it. The only reason I am staying in this country is that these bastards will not chase me out of my birthland.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by swamp gas on 03-11-2003]
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 05:00 PM
OK, then you are a hypocrite. Alcohol is the most dangerous of legal drugs. Makes you stupid, impotent, and violent. Marijuana on the opposite. Increase blood flow to the brain, 100 times better than booze for sex, eases stomach problems, enhances creativity, and is not addictive. The only 2 dangers are arrest and lung damage from overuse.WOW, I thought it was "swamp" gas, not smoke coming from the hooka! Pot not bad for you?! Problems with memory, learning skills and attention aren't bad? Eases stomach problems, yes, that's why they make synthetic THC, or are you trying to imply that instead of reaching for a Tums or Maalox, next time I should reach for a joint? Enhances creativity? I liked the Beatles a hell of lot more before they discovered pot. Great ideas that come from smoking pot... "if we turn the oven on to 50 we can cool it off in here". Greater physical strenght and stamina? Absolutely, when you're stoned you can walk 5 miles for a burrito at the 7/11. BTW, reread this and tell me who is having problems... "Alcohol... Makes you stupid, impotent, and violent. Marijuana on the opposite. Increase blood flow to the brain" mmmm, pot good, beer bad
And please don't quote the stale and boring statement, "It leads to harder drugs". every junkie that I have ever seen started with alcohol first.
I wouldn't make that statement. Pot is bad enough on it's own! But it sounds to me that you would like to see prohibition reinstated! On your question of what liberties are gone. It's on paper that if you critisize the government, you are an "enemy combatant" for one. The only Constitutional Amendment that Bush and Co. haven't touched YET is the 2nd... When will the signpost for you be, to indicate we have lost our freedom? I already have seen it. Typical. My question turns into a Bush bashing. Will you be waiting for the police to come arrest you now that you made that comment? Seems there were thousands of your friends marching over the last couple months, they're not in jail. I will ask again (and again I'm sure I won't get an answer (what else is new?))... what liberty do you not have today? The only reason I am staying in this country is that these bastards will not chase me out of my birthland. Really? I can think of thousands of reasons to stay. If you can only come up with one, you probably should leave.
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theseeker
One moon circles
Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-11-2003 05:06 PM
gas those would be "disabled" and need care and assistance...captian, I am NOT a lp...lol...pot is nowhere near as addictive as alcohol or cigarettes even coffee...read my man read...it's not about addiction...it's about meaningless and unenforcable laws that robs billions from the taxpayer under the guise of some kind of moral high ground...no pun intended... people have been self-medicating themselves for thousands of years captian...they smoke scorpions venom right now overseas...using your analogy people are idiots anyway some give them one bone (pot) and make all the rest serious time offenses...and give the lion's share of the war on drugs to education...a very small percentage of the population becomes addicted to drugs, nad an even smaller amount of educated folks.... this makes sense the war on drugs does not... Kinda tough for the INS to do their job with open borders, really...funny how mo atta's papers were sent to him six months after 9/11...is that a border problem captian ? packing heat is the best protection captian, a room full of responsible folks with guns is a safe one... I agree for the most part with your last paragraph... btw a chemmie better come along and get this thread back on topic...it's really starting to turn into a discussion about real issues....
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 05:22 PM
a very small percentage of the population becomes addicted to drugs, nad an even smaller amount of educated folks....Kind of sums it all up Seeker, between your comment nad this one... "Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off. Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared to their non-smoking peers" http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 03-11-2003 05:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CaptWalker:
a very small percentage of the population becomes addicted to drugs, nad an even smaller amount of educated folks....Kind of sums it all up Seeker, between your comment nad this one... "Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off. Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared to their non-smoking peers" http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html
Posted by the same government that thinks pot is bad. Good evidence Captain. Not slanted at all. Have a shot of whiskey and puke. Louis Armstrong smoked pot for 60 years, as did Olivier Messiaen the composer.
The pre-pot Beatle were BORING. Booze influenced. Sgt Pepper's was still voted the best album OF ALL TIME by thousands of critics.
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 06:13 PM
Posted by the same government that thinks pot is bad....Sgt Pepper's was still voted the best album OF ALL TIME by thousands of critics.Of course. ALL sources outside of Carni, Rense, Bell, Will Thomas are controlled by the government. As am I. I've been working for the feds for 15 years now. I was brainwashed at a Reagan youth camp to spew gov propaganda. As were all my friends who work at NIH. That's why they contribute even more research and web space to alcohol, because they're against that too... oops, they're not... oh, I guess that's just misinformation so nobody thinks they're singling out pot. http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aharw.htm BTW, what do you think those critics were doing while listening to Sgt. Peppers? http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17672
[Edited 1 times, lastly by CaptWalker on 03-11-2003]
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PHXPilot
Your Mode C Veil is Showing
Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 06:40 PM
This is why you guys never get evidence for chemtrails. You spend waaaaaaay too much time blabering about the evil government.I ask: "Where is this giant fleet of government spray aircraft (that needs to be the size of a major international airline) located? Chemmies say: "The government sucks because they think pot is bad. Thats evidence for chemtrails" Sure, the government may be stupid and hiding things from us, but latching onto any wacky theory that wanders by doesnt do any good for your cause.
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theseeker
One moon circles
Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000
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posted 03-11-2003 07:00 PM
ha ! captian it looks like we have something in common...we both spell "and" *nad*...lol...there are more than 70 million pot smokers...most of which are regular everyday working professional folks... which hurts the credibility of your reports, if you will trace the money (funding), are they paid to say what they say ? addiction has NOTHING to do with the substance and everything to do with the person... and that's the fact jack ! btw, my argument is the money spent on the war on drugs is way past the stage of assinine...it's criminal to take money and spend it on something that does not work, has not worked and never will work...I could be polite and call the war on drugs a 30 year pork barrel project... again I'm not trying to argue the pros and cons of drug use because that's not my beef...spending taxpayer money inappropriatly is... oink...oink ! 
[Edited 1 times, lastly by theseeker on 03-11-2003]
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ScaredForTheFuture
Senior Member
Orange County, CA,USA
162 posts, Jan 2003
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posted 03-11-2003 10:49 PM
I thought Sgt Peppers was done on LSD.Is the drug LSD harmful? Ask Brian Wilson. Maybe he'll drool you a reply.
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-12-2003 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by theseeker:
there are more than 70 million pot smokers...most of which are regular everyday working professional folks... which hurts the credibility of your reports...addiction has NOTHING to do with the substance and everything to do with the person...
Not sure where you got the figure or how you're defining pot "smokers". The figure I've seen is more like 12 million. There are 6.6 million people in this country in jail, prison or on probation. Kinda hurts your case for if enough people do it, it must be OK. Alcoholism also has everything to do with the person and not the alcohol. Public intoxication is illegal in most jurisdicions, I would hope that even in your pot-legal scheme you could be arrested for public stonification. Also, one can drink without getting drunk (have 1 drink per hour), but can one smoke without getting high?
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 03-12-2003 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ScaredForTheFuture:
I thought Sgt Peppers was done on LSD.Is the drug LSD harmful? Ask Brian Wilson. Maybe he'll drool you a reply.
Brian Wilson was an alcoholic. Would that have something to do with the drooling.? Nooooo...blame it on the exponential drugs, not the stupeficient.
Is LSD dangerous? Ask the thousands of researchers that found it to be entirely enlightening when used correctly.
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swamp gas
Persuader of air molecules
Jersey City
1881 posts, Jun 2001
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posted 03-12-2003 04:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CaptWalker:
Also, one can drink without getting drunk (have 1 drink per hour), but can one smoke without getting high?
One ounce of alcohol swells the brain. Captain, you are getting in deeper in this argument, and I haven't pulled out the stops.
Alcohol is a linear drug.....so is cocaine, speed, heroin, tranquilizers, and caffeine.
Pot is a non-linear drug, as is XTC, LSD, Mushrooms, and peyote.
Linear-perfect drugs for non-thought. Good for the State. Conforming.
Non-Linear drugs..evil. Makes you THINK. The Enemy of The State.. THOUGHT.
If you haven't tried all the above, you're whistling through your hat, and therefore all your knowledge is theoretical at best.
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CaptWalker
logic infuser
99 posts, Feb 2003
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posted 03-12-2003 05:04 PM
One ounce of alcohol swells the brain.And does that make you intoxicated? Alcohol is a linear drug.....Linear-perfect drugs for non-thought...Non-Linear drugs..evil. Makes you THINK. Perhaps the worst 'legalize' arguement I've heard. Who in the world ever claimed that alcohol was "good" for you? It's just not as debilitating to the brain taken in moderation. How many pot smokers don't get high when they smoke? I know I've heard of people who don't feel the effects after small amounts, but the only problem is the only reason to smoke pot is to get high, so these people just smoke more until they do get high! If you haven't tried all the above, you're whistling through your hat, and therefore all your knowledge is theoretical at best. WOW man, that's deep. I also haven't tried robbing a convenience store, so I probably shouldn't pass judgement on theives either. I like my brain the way it is and I like having memory of my real life experiences, I'll take a pass.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by CaptWalker on 03-12-2003]
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