posted 02-23-2003 03:05 PM            

February 24, 2003

To all:
A topic in chemtrails which has seen some mention, if not discussion, is the idea of "invisible chemtrails", that is, aerial spraying that is not easily or immediately visible.
On February 8, 2003, a commercial jet flew over our house in West Caldwell. The picture below shows the jet, with the major part of the picture artificially enhanced. As with so many flights of either private or commercial aircraft, these days, it was anomalously low. The jet size was about .5º. For a regular sized commercial jet, that would make its altitude about 17,500 feet.

Behind the jet, you can just make out a straight line. It would be even less easily seen in real color, which is why I am presenting it in artificial color. The line is straight and trails back a significant distance behind the jet. In fact, it seems to trail back even farther than most normal contrails would. I did not track the trail all the way back, but it seems it may stretch for more than a normal contrail's distance.
If this is a chemtrail, it represents both a case of aerial spraying at a new low altitude. "Debunkers" will try to suggest that it wasn't a chemtrail at all, but a normal contrail. But contrails are generally depicted as occurring at 35,000 feet, where temperature and humidity conditions are right. Not once is there any reference to contrails at least conceivably forming below 35,000 feet. This jet's height was about half that! Nowhere was it mentioned by the "debunkers" that contrails can form at so low an altitude! More than that, it is virtually invisible!
This may represent a new form of chemtrail. But, then again, it may confirm some points I made in the post "some unusual, likely chemtrail related occurrences", in the Chemtrail portion of this site. In that post, I suggested that planes flying anomalously low, and peculiar habits of birds, lately, may be due to the fact that chemtrail spraying has so utterly tainted the upper atmosphere, that it may have completely altered its behavior. It's looking more and more, for example, as if planes are flying peculiarly low because they are afraid of going up high! The upper atmosphere may be damaging the material of the planes, or doing something they want to avoid! It may also be having an effect on the trails of planes. Where, before, they would not be leaving tracks as they passed overhead, now, with the atmosphere adulterated, they may be leaving visible marks!
The unusual cannot be ignored, and, no matter how many times the “debunkers” insist that they cannot be linked to something like chemtrails, the possibility, even the likelihood, cannot be dismissed!

posted 02-23-2003 03:38 PM            

Julian, that is not a contrail. It is exaust. You can not see it very well unless you, as you did, change the colors and saturation around. I just did that with one of my Blue Angels airshow photos, and you can clearly see an exaust trail when you change the colors around.

I highly doubt you can answer this but, what type of aircraft was this? I cant make it out very well in your altered photo. It looks like a rear engined aircraft due to the wings placed so far back. This gives me an indication that it is probably a business jet (eg: Gulfstream, Learjet). There is the remote possiblility that it is an MD-80, but it looks far too short for that.

Older Gulftreams and Learjets have turbojet engines instead of the newer turbofans. Turbojets are notorious for trailing exaust, especially on takeoff. This aircraft was obviously trailing exaust.

Conclusion: Older Gulfstream II or III or Lear 25/35 aircraft. And in climbing phase of flight as evidenced by exessive exaust and lower altitude.

About the 'planes are flying peculiarly low because they are afraid of going up high' remark. This just show how you know nothing about aviation. If airliners were routinely cruising at 5,000 ft like you suggested before, it would be one of the biggest stories in the aviation industry. I routinely cruise in my CESSNA 172 above 8,000. US Airspaces and activities would not allow airliners to fly at those altitudes. It would not be safe. Air Traffic Control facilities would not allow it, and in my many years of listing to ATC and pilots, I have never encountered anything bigger than a KingAir cruising below 18,000. Anything bigger than that cruises at around 30,000.

posted 02-24-2003 12:04 AM            

I would think that if they government DID have some secret program to spray the upper atmosphere, it would be something you wouldn't readily see. There are some who advocate the "secrecy in plain sight" theory, but really....that only works for small scale things, not huge operations.

On the flip side of it, coming out and claiming "invisible chemtrails" and "invisible" chemtrail jets, invisible pilots, invisible bases....(yes, there have been some chemtrail activists who put that last one on the table over at Carnicom's)....it starts to get into the realm of insanity.

I'm not going to dispute your 17,500 foot estimation, simply because your photo doesn't provide much to go off of for my own valid estimation. But calling 17,500 feet as "anomolous" is far fetched.

Having flown jets for a while, I've cruised at altitudes ranging from 10,000 feet to 43,000 feet. If you're flying between two fairly close places, you don't climb high because you'd have to start a descent before you could ever get to your final cruise altitude.

When we fly from Montgomery AL to Pensacola FL, we cruise in the mid teens, because it doesn't make sense to waste fuel going all the way to 30,000 feet...by the time we got there we'd have to come right down. So no, flying at 17,500 feet isn't anomalous by far.

As for the trail being a "chemtrail"...well, we'll never really know now will we? But PHXPilot is right...it's quite possible that it's an exhaust trail. Many older jet engines leave a pretty good brownish sooty exhaust trail.

Now on to your assertion that the upper atmosphere is so tainted that jets have to fly low. That's pure hogwash. I routinely fly at 41,000 feet and even higher. Just two weeks ago I flew out to Utah at 39,000 feet and back at 41,000.

posted 02-24-2003 09:59 PM            

While not even consulting an approach chart, terminal area charter, low or high enroute charts, sectional charts, etc, they know EXACTLY where aircraft can and can not go.

They can also look at planes and know exactly down to 500 ft of accuracy how high they are.
Hmmm but they never mention whether their altitudes are MSL or AGL.

posted 02-24-2003 11:30 PM            

But in spite of zero interest from chemtrail believers about learning aviation, I have seen many statements which are impossible, such as saying "that airplane was 17,500 ft", or "i know normal flight patterns" or " I saw an unmarked plane and I think it was at 30,000 ft".

No one can make such statements, pilot or non pilot. You cant look at the sky and know how high a plane is. Nor can you see if a plane is missing its one foot high "N" number from miles away.

Chemtrail believers make some silly statesment about aviation, which they would probably be a lot less likely to make if they learned more about it.

posted 02-25-2003 04:29 PM            

No chemmies on this board have taken any steps to increase their knowledge of aviation and aviation operations. And, it is quite obvious that aviation is a KEY part of this "chemtrail" stuff. Youd think that chemmies would try to learn up on somthing that is so important to their theory. That is, unless learning about it would cause them to learn to truth behind chemtrails, which is that there are none, as I did.

They know that if they knew about aviation, they would learn the truth behind what they are seeing. But that wouldnt be any fun. They need someone to blame the drought on!*

posted 02-25-2003 05:31 PM            

Time to use another analogy. Say that you think that your televsion makes pictures on the screen because there are elves behind the glass using magic. So, television technicians come by and explain why you see the pictures on the screen. Why should you listen to him? He was probably hired by the elves to keep you from knowing the truth. But seriously, you should listen to him because he knows more about television than you do! He can explain why you see the things you do. But if you want to use your circular logic and circumstantial "evidence" to show how there are elves back there, then go right ahead.

posted 02-25-2003 05:57 PM            

But you can seek out on your own, most all of the information out there. If you live in city with an ATC facility, call and ask for a tour. It wouldnt hurt, and would only give you more info.

Maybe take a flying lesson, or get a part time job at an airport doing line service.

There are lots of things you can do to find out info. Or do you think chemtrails involves every single person in aviation?