posted 03-13-2003 08:43 AM            

Right away Kim runs into a problem confusing fact with speculation and it only gets worse...

For instance, last year in Sante Fe, NM there was a 21-day period of continuous clouud cover when humidity/dew point levels were no higher than 30%.

30% on the ground, assuming her figures are true to begin with.

Of the initial 697,000 soldiers deployed to the Gulf War... 67% of their babies born after are born deformed

Really? That's a staggering figure, thank God it's not even close to the truth. From the New England Journal of Medicine.."During the study period, 33,998 infants were born to Gulf War veterans and 41,463 to nondeployed veterans at military hospitals. The overall risk of any birth defect was 7.45 percent, and the risk of severe birth defects was 1.85 percent. These rates are similar to those reported in civilian populations."
www.nejm.org

see carnicom.com... see carnicom.com... see carnicom.com... see carnicom.com

There's a reliable source.

Unusual truck activity across the U.S. Trimac Western tanker trucks that DO NOT display DOT placard codes giving their contents, being WAVED THRU mandatory truck inspection stops! People who slow down to take a "look-see" are being shadowed 20-30 miles by civilian cars escorting the tanker trucks.

Yeah, I've seen the blurry photos of the tanker in question. Looks like, well, a tanker truck driving on the road. Why did he get a photo of the tanker, but not the car of the men following him? This is a bogus claim by an anonymous person on the www.

an aircraft mechanic from a major airline received anonymous "warning" call, job suspension and threats left in his locker... tanks located near the aircraft waste disposal system.... NOT connected to the waste disposal system, but instead led to a box attached to the aircraft's central control and had piping leading to deliberately "hollowed out" wiring connected to the edges of the aircraft's wings

MY GOD, again, an anonymous author. Why didn't he send Cliffie a copy of the "threats left in his locker" or try to get photos of the "piping leading to deliberately "hollowed out" wiring"? Could it be because the story is completely ficticous? Who knows, perhaps even made up by Corny himself?

there are alot of anti-chemtrail activists reporting harrassment

posted 03-13-2003 04:53 PM            

We have explained the (many) faults in that story many, many times, and if they still keep it posted on the sites page, then they are obviously running low on chemtrial evidences, so they keep it up there as a filler, and possibly to try and get a really avation ignorant person into thinking it really happened.

posted 03-14-2003 08:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by the professor:
My favorite act is when tthe debunkees play
dumb to to try and revert what it was they
were first whining about.Just like this last post, what? the duh routine again.

---

professor, you are by far the worst offender of the play dumb attitude around here. You NEVER answer direct questions. PHX was asking Jeanie WHAT exactly she wanted him to prove. I can't figure out what Jeanie wants proof of either.

posted 03-15-2003 05:30 PM            

Get in your jets and tail a couple of so called chem planes. Prepare to get samples directly from such a planes "contrail" and send it to at least two independant laboratories for analysis. Get back to us, will you please?

posted 03-16-2003 08:15 PM            

Well, I really cant think of a way to do this. Its not like I can hold a cup out the window and scoop a nice blob of contrail. I mean, the air in the cabin is outside air anyway, just bleed-air from the engines, so I guess, in theory, if you passed through a contrail, the cabin air would have traces of whatever is in the contrails. 2ndly, its pretty hard to just go up and follow planes around. They frown on that. The photos I have shown were just airliners that happened to cross each others paths at the same time (also creating your, so called, evil "X"'s) so thats how they got the close photos. If I could get anywhere near another aircraft it would just be the luck of the draw. 3rdly, I dont have access to high performance jets on a regular basis.

posted 03-16-2003 11:25 PM            

I can't simply jump in and go for a spin. Nor can I choose to just go "tail" another aircraft. Finally, although I can't roll the window down at 35,000 feet to take a sample, I don't really have to do that because all the air that's outside is pumped inside the cabin via the engine compressor section and the handy-dandy cabin pressurization system.

Back to explain in detail. First the reason why I can't just go flying when I want to. Well, I don't own the airplanes. The US public does. So I can only fly them when there is a reason to do so, namely flying either on a bona fide training sortie or flying a mission in support of DoD taskings.

Next, I can't "trail" another aircraft, at least not up close. Above 18,000 feet, we're operating in Class A airspace, which used to be referred to as a PCA, or Positive Control Airspace. All aircraft in Class A airspace must be flying on an IFR flight plan and thus be under the watch of air traffic controllers. While there is a remarkable degree of latitude on my part to choose my own routing and even altitudes, once you request those routes and altitudes, you've got to get permission to change them. And even once you change them, the best you can do is get within 5 miles of another aircraft that's co-altitude with you. Finally, the only way to really truly "tail" another aircraft is to request manuevering airspace, so you can do what you need to do to get directly behind someone. Unfortunately, any good controller isn't going to grant you manuevering airspace that high because he or she is afraid if they do, you'll create a traffic snarl in the airways.

Now as for taking a sample, consider this. Most of you agree that regardless of *what* is being sprayed, it's somehow harmful to a human's health. Reports are always posted on chemtrail sites recalling sick people with respiratory distress, etc. Now, these are people getting sick 6-8 miles BELOW the area being sprayed. Imagine being exposed to the air that is RIGHT AT the altitudes being sprayed? Well, that's what aircrew and passengers alike have been doing for many years.

Despite what you read, air in most aircraft is pumped directly from the atmosphere, into a compressor section (to increase the partial pressure of the air, thus allow you to breathe normally) and then into the cabin. There are no advanced HEPA filters filtering this air, as some have claimed. Mostly because the air is a mixture of 300 degree C low pressure air and 600-700 degree C high pressure air, it would burn the filter right up (or blow it out from the pressure).

Now, in all fairness, many commercial airliners (and larger biz jets) have HEPA filters on board. But these filters filter out the *recycled* air. That is, the air that's already been used in the cabin, to catch bugs that people bring aboard. There's really no use in filtering outside air because there really isn't much pollution at 35,000 feet.

Julian Penrod argued this point with me before, and he/she said there are filters to keep out rocks, bugs and grass, etc. Well, you really shouldn't be sucking rocks and grass into an engine in the first place. And bugs...well, most get splattered on the fan blades, and when you climb into the high altitudes, there really aren't too many insects up there. My point being, there isn't much to filter out, so aircraft manufacturers don't put micron filters on pressurization systems.

Sooooo, where am I going with this? Well, if we're flying around without some kind of filter system, then we *have* to be getting directly exposed to the air at the "chemtrail" spraying altitudes. And since I've never been sick, and I haven't seen any outbreaks amongst my peers, I'd have to say there isn't anything up there abnormal. So there's your sample.

posted 03-17-2003 08:30 PM            

Cool Pilot, I'd really like that!!