New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 04:39 PM            

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I have a telescope, a very high zoom telephoto lens for my camera, and high powered binoculars that I have used for years to watch airliners cruising and I have seen airliners create long lasting billowy trails hundreds and hundreds of times! I dont understand how anyone can say that only military aircraft create big trails.

how come the commercial plane isn't leaving the long trail like the other planes that are flying about the same altitude?

Because weather conditions can vary quite alot from flight level to flight level. Many airliners you see are thousands of feet apart vertically. One airliner cruising at 28 thousand feet may not be creating nice big contrails, while one cruising at 35 thousand may be creating very nice big billowy contrails. The atmosphere is not uniform from 0 to 50,000 ft.

New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 06:29 PM            

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Sorry then. Since you used the wording "commerical planes" and "other planes", I only assumed that military aircraft are what you meant by "other planes".

And yes, I have used my telescope to look at the aircraft, but I use my binoculars and camera far more because they are much easier to use. Ive used these tools for years to watch aircraft.

New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 06:47 PM            

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They look like every other commercial aircraft I have seen in my many years of aviation/airline photography. I have been given tests where people only show me the rudder of an airliner and then I name the airline by looking only at the portion of the livery shown by the rudder. I have been able to recognize most every airline livery in existance since I was 7, so you can be sure that I will know the airline and aircraft of anything crossing the sky if you give me some binoculars. BTW, I just mentioned all that so certain people on here dont try to accuse me of not knowing airline liveries. You can bet I do.

And 99% of the big, billowy contrails I have watched are caused by normal airliners. Of course I see the occasional military aircraft, or business jet making these contrails because they are flying through the same air the airliners are. I just have to laugh whenever I hear anyone say that only military or government aircraft are making the big billowy contrails. Its absurd.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by PHXPilot on 03-19-2003]

New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 07:20 PM            

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Well, you can identify Southwest, American, Continental, etc... fairly easily without being able to read the actual words.

Like I said, I spend at least 6 hours per week just sitting on top of the parking garage watching/photographing airliners, so I am very acute at recognizing liveries at a glance. No doubt in my mind, nor has there ever been, that these are normal airliners, on normal, scheduled, airline flights.

New Member

6 posts, Mar 2003

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

Senior Member

Oregon
604 posts, Oct 2000

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 08:31 PM            

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Increase, Commercial aircraft are permitted to overfly restricted airspace as long as they are on an IFR flight plan, under ATC guidance, and along established routes (and airliners have all of those things on every single flight). So its no big deal to have an airliner cruise over restricted airspace.

As far as if Oregon has restricted airspace, I couldnt really tell you much. I have aeronautical charts covering every mile of the United States, but I dont feel like digging through them and trying to find oregons right now, plus they are quite old so much of the info on them may have changed.

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-19-2003 09:00 PM            

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Let me rephrase that, my last post sucked.

Really, it depends.... the altitude of the R-areas varies from one to the other, some are low altitude for instance they are only surface to 6000' while others go all the way up to 60,000' while others start at 18,000 and go up highers altitude, it varies from R-area to R-area. For instance on top of nuke plants and similar, the resticted area may be low alt, but you can fly high above it. But airways, most jet routes, are constrcuted clear of the R-areas, and when active they do not enter them. So, it is pretty safe to say that you will not see an airliner fly into restricted airspace.

Is that easier to understand? Or harder?

Senior Member

Oregon
604 posts, Oct 2000

heartland USA
1164 posts, Jan 2003

North East U.S.A.
551 posts, Nov 2001

posted 03-24-2003 03:48 PM            

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Pilot***I must say you are definitely qualified to speak on aircraft in the skies of the U.S. Is your occupation any thing other than airline pilot, photographer?***

If I were head of the C.I.A. I'd hire you to get at the bottom of this chemtrail thingy.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Jeanie on 03-24-2003]

Your Mode C Veil is Showing

Phoenix, AZ, USA
800 posts, Jan 2003

posted 03-24-2003 04:50 PM            

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Is your occupation any thing other than airline pilot, photographer?

Sadly no. 95% of my time is spent on either flying related things, or sitting on the parking garage at KPHX taking photos and writing down registration numbers. The other 5% of the time is spent thinking about doing those things.

I wouldnt trade it for the world.

Portland, OR
20 posts, Mar 2003

New Member

Calgary, AB
12 posts, Mar 2003