posted 07-12-2003 09:00 PM            

July 3, 2003

To all:
This is an article of some length, and those seem, often, to inspire a certain degree of ambivalence among many. The subject, however, is something that has been around for some time, and covers a wide range of occurrences, namely, the misuse and abuse of the techniques of argument by the debunkers.
In determining the truth of a situation, the fundamental facets are facts and arguments. Those who would wish to obscure the truth, and promote the lie, then, often look to manipulate one or the other. There are numerous methods employed to prevent legitimate discovery through appropriate conclusion from valid fact. In their evident pursuit of maintaining the fiction that chemtrails are not abnormal, the debunkers can be seen to engage in a number of these tactics. More than that, their use of these techniques brands them as devoted to untruth.
With liars, the emphasis is less on the idea of principle - pursuing the truth - than in effect - arranging, in whatever way necessary, to bring others into lockstep with the liars’ insistences. Because of this, the tactics of the false and fraudulent differ significantly from what the truthful will do. Whereas the truthful tend to espouse the idea of all people accepting the truth on the strength of its reasonableness, or the flimsiness of “arguments” against it, because the liars seek only to control others, their techniques will, often, be modeled after the nature of those they address. And, because they, often, will not know what particular individual they are addressing, they can be expected to engage in a raft of separate methods for promoting what they want others to believe. In general, too, the untrue will pattern their techniques of “conversion” or “coercion” after the weaknesses of those they seek, essentially, to enslave.
The meek, for example, they will approach either as an altogether too mealy-mouthed “friend”, taking special care to exude an overwhelming air of doting approval, or as an implacable foe, engaging in everything from contemptuous disdain and insult to outright vulgarity. For those new to a field, adopting an air of “professionalism” and claiming all but universal knowledge about which they wish to lie, they patronizingly prate “the party line”, then berate those who wisely choose not to believe them as “nonintellectual”. In impressing the unwary with their faux expertise, too, the liars tend to approach the issue from many directions, attacking everything from the basic data, itself, to the conclusions drawn, to even the nature of drawing conclusions!
Those who have seen posts by those who call themselves debunkers, either in Chemtrail Central, or on their forum site, pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails, they will have experienced these qualities of behavior. Those who introduce themselves as new to the board, and to the chemtrail issue, itself, as, generally, effusively welcomed, by members of the board who all but depict themselves as devoted to guiding the individual through the “pitfalls” of the assertions of chemtrail opponents, into the “wisdom” of unquestioning acceptance of the phenomenon, and absolute confidence that there is absolutely nothing dangerous or underhanded involved in it. Those who stand up for themselves, and refuse to march blindly to the mantras intoned by the debunkers is to be made the subject of literal fusillades of venom! “Idiots” is a common term to see in the posts of the debunkers, concerning the chemtrail opponents, as are “maniacs”, “morons”, “clowns”, “dumbbells”, “jerks”, “loons”, “stupid”, “insane”, “paranoid”, “psychotic” and “irrational”. They deliberately misspell the names of opponents; they make malicious insinuations about the characters of the opponents; and vulgarity is all but universal in what they post about chemtrail opponents. Even when writing, presumably, for their own consumption, on their own website - where such abusiveness cannot be described as being intended to “impress on the opponents how they come off to others” - such verbiage is used. It speaks less of any opinion of chemtrail opponents’ behavior than of a genuine, seething hatred, on the part of the debunkers, for the chemtrail opponents! And that cannot be represented as an outgrowth of their interaction with the opponents: if an honest and honorable person sees someone who will not listen to reason, and own up to the truth, the response, generally, is one of sadness and disquiet for that person, not a frothing outrage at them! Nor, even, can the ubiquitous debunker claim that they act vilely because chemtrial opponents speak poorly of them in their posts, be taken as valid or legitimate. To begin with, the frequency of opponents’ use of viciousness in their posts is far less than that of the debunkers. Too, there is a distinct difference between the beleaguered, concerned for the potential loss of freedom, lashing out at cold and heartless evident proponents of that loss, and the malicious and disdainful, being verbally abusive because they know no other way! Most telling, however, is the debunkers’ very use of the “explanation” that they are foul-mouthed because chemtrail opponents are; the honorable do not use turpitude on another’s part to excuse malignance on their own! Is not the presence of honorable intention demonstrated by the fact that someone would rise above displays of vulgarity? If the debunkers are so much in possession of the truth, why do they resort to foul-mouthed loutishness, in response to challenges from the chemtrail opponents? If they are such honorable people, they would rise above all form of brutish retort!
They would not use the actions of others to give them license to engage in such behavior!
In the area of, actually, opposing facts themselves, the means employed by the faithless and deceitful are numerous. A common tactic is the simple act of refusing even to cooperate in the search for truth. Those who seek to prevent the spread of the truth, for example, are quick to dismiss, summarily, the claims of those who wish to find the facts, often with an overt display of lack of confidence in the ability of the truth seekers to even be able to conduct their investigations. To declare precepts at variance to the "party line", before the deceitful, is to be greeted, for example, with automatic performances of disbelief, followed swiftly by scorn and derision. Eye rolling is a common tack, as is head shaking and a tossing up of the hands. More uncommon in the days when courtesy was a commonplace in society, but ominously frequent now, is the fraudulent literally exploding into contemptuous laughter. But, then, there seem more malignant things to be denied, now, declarations more viciously targeted against the rights of the people to be espoused, and, in service to that aim, a greater depth of ostensible cruelty among the devotees.
These, however, are merely dissuading tactics, meant to frighten opponents from their cause, with the threat of vicious treatment. When put in the context of a rational - or pseudo-rational - address of facts, though, those who seek to obscure the truth must rely on different techniques.
When dealing with those completely new to the idea of chemtrails, for example, the debunkers often rely on what shapes up as little more than a shoddy trick. To “prove” that chemtrails are harmless, they begin by simply stating, without proof, that “chemtrails are just contrails”. They then launch into a description of contrails, invoking the idea of their containing water vapor, and of that vapor freezing or condensing out, when it contacts the cold upper atmosphere. Thus “proving” that “contrails are safe”, and relying on the unproved statement that “chemtrails are just contrails”, they “deduce” that “chemtrails are safe”!
Where those less open to fraud may be involved, more ambitious methods need to be utilized. In response to the challenge of facts, among other things, the fraudulent can simply - if outlandishly - refuse to accept the existence, or validity, of evidence. If no direct evidence of the purported phenomenon is available, for example, the obfuscators will simply declare baldly that no such phenomenon exists. More, they will often go out on a limb to declare that no evidence of claims can even be obtained. This is for the purpose of turning aside those new to the issue and easily discouraged. When some evidence is presented, the liars - without even admitting the proof of their own duplicity in saying that it was impossible to obtain such evidence - will, simply, declare that it is not enough. They will, suddenly, declare new evidence as necessary, and proclaim all that was presented as “useless”.
On November 24, 2002, for example, on the website, www.godlikeproductions.com, an individual who used the i.d. FL Beach Dude, mentioned hearing of a report on CNN of the military using simulated clouds. In response, Duncan Kunz says that he looked on the CNN website, but saw no reference to a “military cloud”.
“I guess”, Mr. Kunz goes on, “that makes the ‘report’ about the information on CNN a hoax.”
In fact, On April 17, 2002, there was an article on CNN about the military spraying egg whites, to form a trail, to see if it can show on the radar used to track drug smugglers. I referred to this in a post countering relentless debunker implications that the white trails after planes can only be ice condensation. The reference by FL Beach Dude may have been imprecise, but it was not a “hoax”! The tendency by the debunkers, however, seems to be to call “hoax” anywhere they want, justified or not, apparently in the interest of conning those new to the subject into believing there is no substance behind the statements of chemtrail opponents! Violating the debunkers’ own, frankly, tediously reiterated demand for “evidence”, Kunz, apparently, made nowhere near a thorough search - he could have looked at the post I put on ChemtrailCentral, including the CNN reference - before unilaterally declaring the assertion , essentially, calculated fraud! The debunkers evidently regularly deny the truth purely for the purpose of misleading the unwary! Indeed, to have the debunkers declare something a “hoax” seems all but to prove it valid.
Indeed, the methodology of patently denying the existence of what they didn’t want to admit existed seems a mainstay of the debunkers’ approach to trying to foil chemtrail opponents. There are few, if any, records of debunker claims in the early days of the chemtrailing available, these days, but there is little reason to believe they didn’t respond to claims of long-lasting “contrails” by insisting - accompanied by verbal abuse - that the chemtrail opponents had no proof and that, if they could provide some kind of photographic evidence, then, maybe, they would admit there was something to the claims. When photographic evidence was produced, the debunkers, likely, suddenly declared themselves all too aware that “persistent contrails” existed, even tossing “explanations” in as to why they occur. To assert they were anything more, they insisted, however, now required other “proof”. Chemical analysis of the environment was widely suggested. When chemical results were printed on the forums, the debunkers, in addition to questioning the accuracy of the results - without ever indicating why that skepticism was valid! - trotted forth a new demand for evidence! The shibboleth now being intoned by the debunkers is to “show the nozzles on the wings”, where chemtrail chemicals are dispersed, or to “show how so many people could be involved in a project without the information getting out”. Moving the goalposts is not considered an ethical way of preventing the other side from winning.
As an aside, too, the insistence on showing how “so many people could be kept from spilling the beans” on chemtrailing is palpably tenuous. In the program “The Search For Stealth”, for example, documenting the development of radar thwarting technology, an incident with a jet pilot who unwittingly observed a stealth jet being tested is outlined. After having the plane fly past him, he recounts, he was contacted by the field. “Guess you had quite a thrill”, he remembers them saying, “After you land, we have some papers for you to sign.” And, apparently, that was all there was to it, to get him to shut up about the incident! To just “sign some papers”! One has to wonder what kind of incriminating documents they had to be, to make him keep silent all those years! If he was so predisposed to keeping silent, why even have him “sign the papers” in the first place? In the end, the sieve may be in the wrong direction. Debunkers portray pilots as regular people who just happened to want to fly and, in flying, they encountered chemtrails and knew, from looking at them, that they were harmless! It may be the other way around, that the only people they will allow to gain a pilot’s license are those gutless and quisling enough to lie about whatever they see, no matter how adversely it may affect others! To be granted the privilege to be in the sky, they have to be ready traitors to their fellows. Which may not be so hard to arrange since, in allowing this ilk to fly, they probably instill in them the notion that they are a species apart from those on the ground!
The United States, apparently, carried out wholesale carpet bombing of Cambodia, during the Vietnam War, yet it required exposure by the press for the fact to become common knowledge! Operation Paperclip, the plan to import German war criminals, after World War II, for use by the intelligence structure of the United States, apparently, was little, if ever, referenced, even during the days it would have caused significant questions among the populace! Operation Northwoods, the plot to, essentially, concoct “reasons” to attack Cuba through CIA engineered acts of domestic terrorism, though hatched in the early Sixties, seems only recently to have become known, and only among those who look into material the newspapers studiously refuse to print. Operation SHAD involved, essentially, gassing American ships, or subjecting them to microbial attack, to, presumably, test how they could stand up, yet how many mentioned to their relatives that they may be bringing something back to them that they may not be resistant against? The HAARP project is in the open, it consists of hundreds of acres of massive radio antennas, and it even has its own website, yet no more than one in a hundred people even know it exists! And there is no reason to believe that there aren’t even more monstrous operations going on, that will be revealed, perhaps, a decade down the line! There is absolutely no legitimacy to debunker assertions that it is not possible to hide immense operations from the public!
The evidence, in fact, is that there are, at any moment, innumerably many huge projects going on that the American public are completely uninformed on! Indeed, during the days of the Iran-Contra hearings, it became public knowledge that the CIA has a special name for basically rogue projects, funded by convenient, if unannounced, skimmings off of the taxpayers’ dime. They term them “off the shelf” projects. Apparently, they don’t even need to be authorized by government officials - what Congress doesn’t know, or says it doesn’t know, seems to far outweigh what they admit to knowing! - or even comport with official United States foreign policy! Indeed, it may even be that the real foreign policy of the United States is embodied in undercover dealings, and what is peddled as foreign policy in the press is a lie, only for public consumption!
The debunkers’ insistence on “showing the sprayer nozzles” also legislates for the fact that the chemicals being sprayed are actually in the jet fuel itself! Or are dispersed in some other manner! They may be answering their own challenges.
If you came on a tree in the forest, of a kind you had never seen before, and it was after the fruiting season, and hundreds of nuts, the like of which you had never seen before, were underneath the tree and within five feet of the outer edges of its branches, but nowhere else, you cannot be said to have actually seen the nuts on the tree, but there is little, if any justification, not to conclude that they came from the tree itself! The scientific method is not as deliberately complex and, frankly, unavailing in everyday circumstances, as such as the debunkers would prefer to lead people to believe. Their intention seems to be to gull the unwitting into accepting that truth is so eminently difficult to come by that their only choice is to wait to be fed it by those somehow, inexplicably, privy to it! The demands whipped up by the debunkers as, presumably, the only possible proof seem calculated to convince the unwary and those new to the subject that the debunkers’ statements, and only the debunkers’ statements, can be trusted and believed!
In a turnabout, too, it has to be said: where is the debunkers’ proof of their assurances that chemtrails are normal? They claim that they aren’t making assertions, that the burden is on the opponents to prove the truthfulness of their statements. But the debunkers are making declarations, namely, that chemtrails are normal occurrences, involving completely normal, everyday contrail emissions! When put to it, they might segue back to what, by now, has become a worn - even parroted - statement, that “under the right conditions, contrails can persist for hours, even days”. They will invoke claims about the behavior of supercooled, moisture laden air with a “relative humidity with respect to ice greater than 100%”, or even produce a sudden quote from such as Patrick Minnis, who seems the summa qua non of the debunkers’ arsenal; the “last word”, whose overriding in argument is discouraged, if not altogether outlawed! As further demonstration of the debunkers’ own violation of their persistent demand for “evidence”, nowhere do they provide the experimental proof - reproducible, verifiable research results, before unbiased observers - of, for example, clouds of haze in supercooled, moisture rich test chambers persisting for days! Or even hours!
More than an example of perpetually, essentially, “changing the rules”, to avoid acknowledging the truth behind chemtrails, the litany of demanded proofs - the content of chemtrails, how they are sprayed, how the project can be kept secret - constitute, also, a literal perversion of the very scientific method, itself, by the debunkers. Also, apparently, aimed at those new to the subject, the debunkers’ representation appears to define having all the answers to all of the questions of the subject automatically at one’s fingertips as an ultimate test of the truthfulness of the proposition. If there is a question to which you do not immediately have an answer, their “reasoning” seems to go, your entire theory must be disposed of!
If you don’t know what is being sprayed, then, there must be no spraying going on!
If you don’t know how the spraying is being done, then, there must be no spraying going on!
If you don’t know why they are spraying, then, there must be no spraying going on!
Yet there are points in all the major accepted theories that are, as yet, unanswered, but it is unlikely the debunkers will promote their removal! Oppositely charged particles, it is asserted, transmit force by an exchange of photons, but nowhere is there any explanation how, essentially, firing a photon at another particle can cause it to approach, rather than rebound!
Darwinists automatically characterize the qualities they see in animal species as the unquestionable optimum response to environmental conditions. That automatic acceptance of absolute favorability does not explain, though, how, say, curled ears, with a tuft of hair at the tips, can be so definitively superior to curled ears alone. That certain qualities, and not other equivalent traits, exist in an animal is de facto to define them as “the most favorable traits that can be possessed”, because that’s what Darwinism says, and, as Darwinists and their shills say, there is no way that Darwinism cannot be true!
Too, there is still, apparently, no overall attempt at examining Mach’s Principle, that what physics calls “inertial mass” is merely the net gravitational pull on a particle, by all the other matter in the universe.
Yet there is no indication that the debunkers would be so eager to dispose of electromagnetic theory, Darwinian evolution or Newton’s Mechanics, simply because those points have yet to be addressed, or settled!
In addition to, evidently, deliberately acting to make proof of chemtrail opponents’ statements more difficult, the debunkers, apparently, try, also, to make disproof of opponents’ contentions easier than it should be! Apparently in great favor among the debunkers is the tack of declaring immense mounds of information favorable to the chemtrail opponents’ claims completely “disproved” by single pieces of information, often from unrelated sources, that, supposedly, goes counter to them. It is a commonplace, for example, to hear debunkers, old and new, repeat the claim that persistent contrails existed during World War II, and, therefore, cannot be a sign of a government plan to perform aerial spraying of the public. In “support” of this claim, they produce what, by now, amount to a tired, hoary clutch of two or three photographs, showing some B-25 bombers, plus signs of aerial streaks behind them.
Conveniently ignored in what amounts to an illegitimate presentation are such facts as that the streaks in the pictures only stretch a few hundred feet, not the twenty miles or so that horizon to horizon streaks would require! Too, there is no evidence that these streaks were long-lived! They are present only for the second or two the pictures depict! And, for that matter, trying to represent what may have been a pre-arranged feature of a military operation as a perfectly innocent phenomenon, associated with presumed peacetime jet flight is utterly irrational! What evidence is there that what is seen in those photographs was not a manmade chemical trail, meant, for example, to affect enemy radar? Which is what many have said chemtrails are for!
But a collection of only a few photographs is all that the debunkers, after their presumed incisive search, have turned up! The utter paucity of other evidence, until the literal flood that came after 1997, actually argues for the truth of chemtrail opponents’ claims. The debunkers can bring up isolated photos, taken before 1997, and claim that they prove chemtrailing did not begin in 1997, but the fact that they are isolated, and not part of huge groups of records, only strengthens the assertion that 1997 signaled the beginning of a concentrated program of spraying!
As an aside, “concluding” that what are claimed to be persistent contrails in World War II photographs “prove” that what is happening today is not a government operation to spray the public illustrates yet another technique of the liar, to try to obfuscate the truth, namely, drawing the wrong conclusions from facts!
When, essentially, acckling amongst themselves at the chemtrail opponents – in much the same way as the residents of a mental hospital, passing notes to each other, calling the doctors crazy – the debunkers make such accusations as that, to a chemtrail opponent, the fact that two lines intersect is proof that they must be spraying chemicals, and the fact that two lines don’t intersect is proof they must be spraying chemicals. Chemtrail opponents’ making an issue of chemtrails intersecting is of no surprise. And it is true that many asserted it was proof of a massive grid-like spraying enterprise. Which debunkers have fought with the claim that it just represents regular air routes the planes fly along. If there were no trails, they assert, the planes would still fly the same routes. In the end, though, it is not the fact so much that planes flew along such paths that so enflamed chemtrail opponents, but that the very patterning made the outrageous circumstance of unnatural substances being sprayed in the air so obvious. In a counterpoint to the debunkers' “argument” if there were only one chemtrail, it might not cause so much concern, but large numbers, together, enhance the obviousness of the situation! It is that literally outrageous situation, having huge numbers of vaporous lines criss-crossing the sky, that pointed up the abnormality inherent in chemtrails! To say nothing of the fact that so obvious an apparition, the opponents knew, would never have been lost on them as children! The fact that they had no memory of so memorable a sight was proof that chemtrails were not the contrails they always knew, but something that came about only recently!
Yet the debunkers still perpetrated a pose of “authenticity”, recommending, for example, the chemtrail opponents look to Flight Explorer as “proof” that the flights they see are ordinary commercial jetliners, and not some government project. Yet, what “proof” is there that, just because a symbol is caused to move in a particular direction along a computer screen, with a commercial emblem on it, that it must necessarily be a commercial flight? The debunkers say that, just because you can’t see the insignia on a flight 35,000 feet above doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have an insignia. Just because a featureless symbol is programmed to move along a computer screen does not, and cannot definitively be said to, prove that it represents a commercial flight!
For that matter, though, who says it is not the case that commercial flights are used for
secret government purposes? The flight KAL-700, that was brought down over Russia, during the Reagan Administration, was never demonstrably shown not to have been engaging in spying operations. A literal scandal during the time of the Nixon Administration was of the government funding “anthropological field trips” to Southeast Asia, for the ostensible purpose of gathering information on regimes there, to facilitate their being de-stabilized, so the countries could later be toppled and their people be made open to use by American corporations! There is a long-standing tradition of the government not choosing to forego using the American public for personal, quisling purposes!
Indeed, the debunkers’ seem assisted in their attempt to condemn opponents’ claims by apparent collusion with influential sources to, essentially, suggest validity behind the debunkers’ words. For the longest time, for example, the debunkers tried to “prove” that chemtrails were natural phenomena by “predicting” their occurrence, supposedly, based on meteorological conditions. The humidity at the altitudes at which chemtrails are usually thought to occur was a critical factor in this. Predictions, however, failed, drastically, to fit observations. Were chemtrail opponents’ predictions to be so miserably unreliable, the debunkers would declare that absolute proof of the untruthfulness of the opponents’ claims. Because it was their own predictions that were shown to be so poor, however, the debunkers insisted that it had to be that what they relied upon in their “predications” had to be wrong. All of a sudden, previously absolutely trustworthy monitoring equipment was declared to have a “dry bias”, meaning that, presumably, when the devices declare the air too dry to form contrails, they’re wrong! Lines form in the air when conditions are shown to be too dry not because the trails are caused by something being sprayed, but, rather, because the air is moist, and the measuring devices are incorrect! Government meteorologists apparently obligatorily declared the “dry bias” eminently obvious, and the companies that built the devices now declared unreliable utterly failed to defend their product! When you have the evident cooperation of quisling government “authorities” and the companies providing the equipment to work for you, it is unsurprising that you would be able to concoct a juggernaut of propaganda.
But the emphasis on the misuse of reasoning among the debunkers does not end there.
A recent post I placed in the CT Science forum on Chemtrail Central, “possible cause for the wintry weather, this year” referred, among other things, to the wildly varying temperature in West Caldwell, New Jersey, so far, this spring. It has varied as much as 30º or 40º in the space of three days, at least three times, so far.
In the “Nothing but CT SCIENCE” thread, on the debunkers’ www.pub31.ezboard/fcontrailsandchemtrails website, the person who goes by the i.d. of CapWalker tries to “disprove” the validity of my assertions, saying, disparagingly: “Imagine, April weather being kinda crazy in the Mid-Atlantic, who'da thunk? Took me 3.5 minutes at the Old Farmer's Almanac to find the following data for Morristown Municipal Airport weather data...

April 19, 1994 - High Temperature 81.9 degrees
April 22, 1994 - Low Temperature 32 degrees
April 27, 1994 - High Temperature 86.9 degrees”
They then add, in what they seem to think is a cunning aside: “Wasn't 1994 pre-CT's?”
Leaving aside the glaringly obvious fact that an airport cannot be considered as absolutely representative of unaffected weather as, say, a residential neighborhood, there are such evident departures from legitimacy in CapWalker’s assertions as that they conscientiously avoided providing past information from West Caldwell, New Jersey!
A true stickler for working from evidence would compare weather from West Caldwell, this year, with weather information from West Caldwell, in past years! It looks, for all the world, that CapWalker searched for just the right “countering” piece of information, even though that came from a place miles away from the place I was speaking about, and not the same kind of environment! Apparently, the rules of science only apply when they favor what the debunkers’ want others to believe; when they do not favor it, the debunkers will dispense with “the scientific method” in a second!
More important, though, just as with the debunkers’ evident attempts to dismiss chemtrails as being normal on the assertion that they, supposedly, were present in older photographs, is the fact that, despite the flood of information presented by the chemtrail opponents, the debunkers cannot come up with more than a handful of “countering” pieces of information!
Those who fashion themselves as wags, among the debunkers, may try to denounce this presentation by saying: “It only takes one piece of evidence to disprove a theory.” But, in fact, there is no evinced “theory of chemtrails” yet, only the assertion that they are not normal, that they are not present in the memory, before about 1997, and that they seem to attend unusual circumstances in the environment. A “theory” is an absolute, universal statement. And a single demonstration can, at least, dislodge part of a universal theory. So far, though, there has been no such declaration made about chemtrails, so single, isolated “countering” examples cannot undo the assumptions being worked under. Indeed, since no absolute declaration about chemtrails has been made, there can be no such thing as a “countering” example!
The very proscriptions the debunkers seem to require of others seem completely dispensable, by them! In service to their apparent propaganda, the debunkers ignore the rules of “the scientific method” wholesale, in everything from their definition of “proof” to their depiction of the process of deriving conclusions from facts!
But this comes as no surprise, since none of the aspects normally associated with the determined search for truth - from familiarity with basic material, to consistency of assertions, to even borderline honorable behavior - cannot be said not to be in question, among the debunkers.
Following the posting about estimating contrail sizes by angles, by me, on Chemtrail Central, the debunker who uses the i.d. PaceLJ35 tried countering my statements. Among other things, though, PacerLJ35 confused miles per hour and knots. When I pointed that error out, PacerLJ35, apparently, hurriedly went back, edited their post, to remove their mistakes, then placed a post accusing me of, essentially, making that up! I then placed a post, including a photograph I had taken, of copies I had made of PacerLJ35’s post, when the erroneous entry existed, and after it had been repaired! Because it demonstrated the evident lack of mastery of the subject among the debunkers, and their apparent quisling back-stabbing nature, the Chemtrail Central moderator, who goes by the i.d. Lulu - evidently obediently - removed the post to a lesser trafficked area of the Chemtrail Central site! Concealing the debunkers’ apparent tradition of deceit and connivery seemed an eminent part of that move! This also seemed intended to keep others from finding out that PacerLJ35 also actually believed that dust and insects are not present more than a mile into the atmosphere! By their own statements, PacerLJ35 called into question my assertion that dust and insects were present, high up, and would need to be filtered out of any air coming into an aircraft. In fact, some species of bird have been observed flying over Mt. Everest! A species of goose was actually encountered more than 35,000 feet high, off the west coast of Africa! Insects regularly are blown into the upper atmosphere, by winds. And volcanoes can release ash miles into the air. The dust from Krakatoa, for example, is believed to have traveled at least 25 miles high! PacerLJ35 may claim to be a pilot, to give the impression that their word about the reality of chemtrails can be trusted, but it seems no more than an empty boast!
More recently, I placed a post about what seemed an occurrence of “invisible chemtrails” on the Chemtrail Central site. I described a case where a cloud formation seemed to be drifting west to east over West Caldwell. The formation actually seemed to grow, as it moved along, as if water were condensing out around it, and increasing its size. However, slowly, a straight line break started to form in the cloud, and progressed, until it cut the cloud in two. But there were no jets to be seen! Another cut, intersecting the first, also started to form, and, finally, also sliced across it. And it cannot have been the action of a distant jet causing the break, because, as the outer portions of the cloud coalesced, they had the straight line cut across them as they formed! They seemed to form around a path left in the sky by a plane that had passed that way some time before! Trying apparently desperately to counter what I said, the individual using the i.d. PHXPilot asserted that the breaks were caused by “vortices” from jet engines, and said: “Then the aircraft was probably above the clouds [sic] alititude [sic], and the vorticies [sic] sank into the cloud layer over a few minutes.”
For years, the debunkers have been assailing the conception that chemtrails could be dropping chemicals or pathogens onto populations, by asserting that anything dropped from such an altitude could not possibly reach the ground in a coherent mass, or even reach it at all! Now, PHXPilot is declaring that something as energetic as heated, swirling air vortices can not only sink as one solid object, into a cloud bank, but can actually retain a perfectly straight shape, while doing it!
Not only the rules of science seem malleable, in the debunkers’ opinion, to favor their propaganda, their own words seem, in their opinion, legitimately changeable, at will!
But that is only further evidence of the fact that, all their protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, the debunkers do not even have a consistent, universal virsion of contrails to work from!
Just, apparently, conveniently cobbled together, but artificial, “countering statements” to those made by chemtrail opponents.
The frequent occurrence of breaks in chemtrails - ascribed to what has been called the “on/off” switch” - has been represented, by chemtrail opponents, to be an indication of the fact that they are under conscious control. The debunkers, on the other hand, have insisted that it is caused by a contrail laying jet passing through a pocket of locally dry air. Indeed, for post after post, that was the prescribed “explanation” for the breaks.
In threads such as HOLE’S [sic] IN CLOUD’S [sic]?, on Chemtrail Central, a proposed mechanism, espoused by Patrick Minnis for so-called “hole punch clouds”, is described. He speaks of supercooled clouds, between 0º C and –40ºC, without any nucleating agents to induce ice formation. Jets flying through the clouds leave behind their “water vapor and nucleating aerosols”. On the basis of this, water laden air now is not turned into a thick, visible chemtrail, extending for miles, but, instead, is caused to suddenly form into massive ice crystals, and fall out of the sky. That is the phenomenon suggested for “hole punch clouds”. How quickly and conveniently the outcomes of physical conditions change when the debunkers want to “explain” another embarrassing example of anomalous meteorological conditions, but only have the one publicly admitted culprit - supposedly “innocent” aircraft - to blame!
Interesting, too, is the fact that Minnis does not take into account the fact that superheated air, even if moisture laden, would likely superheat the water in the air around it, rather than cause it suddenly to nucleate into supercooled ice!
This, however, is, apparently, the “official line” concerning the formation of “hole punch clouds”.
If you look at the thread, Can these be explained by natural phenomenon, on the pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails website, you see the issue of “hole punch clouds” brought up, again. In that thread, the “explanation” by Dr. Minnis is, again, invoked. Here, though, links to other sites are provided, including cdebsjournal.topcities.com/CarolinasJan171802.htm. On that page, the Meteorological Service of Canada is quoted as attributing “hole punch clouds” to a layer of ice crystals, overlying a layer of supercooled water vapor, being disturbed by a jet stream higher up. This jet stream is presumed to produce “a wave action (possibly gravity waves between the stable layers)”, [italics mine], causing the ice crystals to invade the supercooled air and, presumably, act to facilitate nucleation.
For all the explanations of “hole punch clouds”, though, the lack of any sign of vapor beneath them is “explained” by the presumption of dry air, causing the falling ice crystals to sublimate. Nowhere, in any of the photos of “hole punch clouds” is there any sign of precipitation or vapor beneath them. So, the debunkers “argue”, it must be the case that the air is always bone dry underneath such clouds! Otherwise, the “explanations” provided would be wrong, and they must never be thought of as wrong!
For the debunkers, the facts must always support their “explanations”, not their explanations be in line with facts!
In the thread on the pub31.ezboard.com site, however, the individual with i.d. LTC8K6 posits that the mechanism responsible for “hole punch clouds” may also explain the breaks in chemtrails attributed to the “on off” switch. All but giddy, the individual with i.d. BoneHead9 congratulates LTC8K6 and says they deserve “debunker of the week”.
But the breaks in chemtrails were already categorically claimed, by debunkers, to be caused by local dry patches in the air the jet was flying through!
Why do the debunkers now suggest an alternate “explanation”?
If they already knew the cause of the breaks in chemtrails, which is what they claimed, why do they need a new explanation?
More than that, if they are as informed and certain of the phenomenon as they claim, why do they even need to invoke a new “explanation” for breaks in chemtrails? Their claim was that they already knew every aspect of the formation of chemtrails, yet, now, their indication of a lack of knowledge about the processes involved is utterly at odds with the expertise they want to suggest! Those who trust the “authority” that the debunkers claim will have only themselves to blame when that trust turns around and bites them.
Because, in the end, the debunkers have displayed nothing but utter contempt for honor or decency. The tactic of shaping the rules of argument to fit their presentations and oppose others is only part of their evident chronic, even inherent, duplicity. Their penchant for vulgarity and contemptuous displays is another. But there are few, if any, cases in which the actions of the debunkers have not demonstrated viciousness and disdain for others, even for what they profess to respect, themselves!
When, for example, a member of the debunker forum, www.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails.htm, died, several members went on a literal tirade against a member of the forum at www.carnicom.com, condemning him for scurrilous and mean remarks made against him. When, however, Waylon Jennings, an opponent of environmental misuse, including, apparently, chemtrails, died, F16Jock, in the thread, “Death Of Great Chemtrail Proselytizer”, went on at length to try to humiliate him, saying, for example, “Yep that great chemtrail observer dead of chemtrail flu at age 64. Waylon "Chemtrail Poster Boy" Jennings died in Luckenbach, Texas, pointing his middle finger to the sky just as a megasprayer passed overhead. Witnesses say a vast barium enema spray caused a great pressure differential inside his bowels leaving a contorted face and great flatulent odor permeating his home.” In response, Chickiedeb observes, among other things: “When I read Dan's thread, I had to laugh because when I first heard the news of Merle's death, or was it Waylon, I thought he was the country chemmie and even mentioned it to my husband.” Hypocrisy is a commonplace among the deceitful and malicious.
As is disdain for people standing up for their rights. When the shuttle Challenger was destroyed on re-entry, one of the first thing the debunkers did was to literally order chemtrail opponents not to posit any conspiracy theories about it. When Elizabeth Smart was found, a post on the debunker site gave chemtrail opponents the vulgar order - in internet slang - STFU. The debunkers can prate all they want about respecting the Constitution and freedom of speech, it is evidently nothing more than a dodge to disguise their fascistic inclinations.
And, for all their insistence on the truthfulness of their assertions, making legitimate presentations is far from a universal among them. In a post on the debunker forum, Chickiedeb boldly asserts “I can easily debunk this”. She even entitles the thread with that phrase. What she is referring to is a entry on the www.rense.com site, which involved little more than a complaint about the skies over Santa Fe, New Mexico being clouded over by innumerable chemtrails. Several photos of the trails are displayed. She also seems to single out the point she claims to be able to debunk, one by Clifford Carnicom stating that : “it’s heavy ops today”. Chickiedeb seems to want to suggest to the unwary that she has evidence proving that no clandestine operations were being carried out in Santa Fe, that day. Then, however, she proclaims: “But is it worth the bother?” BoneHead9 backs her up in declaring the claims untenable but not proving it! Few acts are as demonstrative as Chickiedeb’s own that the claims of innocuousness in chemtrails are utterly untrustworthy!
It, perhaps, comes as no surprise that so many among the debunkers are so willing to claim themselves to be pilots. The sieve they seem to want to invoke is that commercial jet pilots are just like everyone else, “regular Joes”, unmotivated by turpitude or connivance, to defraud the public. Because of this, their insistence that “they see nothing unusual” in chemtrails must be taken as the assurance of someone with overwhelming expertise, and no ulterior motive.
But it seems the sieve should be inverted: only those of the “right mindset and principles” - those more than willing to say whatever they are told to say, about what they see - are permitted to be pilot, to enter that high-profile and well-paid field. As a result, that pilots would demand that they see “nothing out of the ordinary” in the presence of chemtrails in the sky should not be taken to be evidence that they are innocent. Indeed, it should be taken as demonstrative of the questionable nature of the phenomenon!
And it is far from unobvious that pilots display eminently suspicious ethics, and even intelligence.
The jet pilot on “The Search For Stealth”, for example, who was more than willing to co-operate in deceit simply because he “signed some papers”! Those allowed into the upper atmosphere seem only the ones with a completely pliable system of morals, and codes on conduct shaped entirely by “orders from above”!
But the lack of principle among pilots seems to go hand-in-hand with a definitive lack of even borderline adequate information for their position!
PacerLJ35, for example, absolutely denied the presence of “filters” on jets, yet, when reminded that something was needed to keep grit from contaminating engines, they acknowledged the presence of “screens”! Yet they still insisted that bugs, dust, and so on never ascended five or more miles into the air! And, when informed that they actually confused knots and mph in one post, they apparently altered the post, then came back - assuming I had not kept a copy of the original post - and suggested that I had lied about that! In another place, they asserted that they had flown “through” a chemtrail with no ill effects, and insisted that they knew it was a chemtrail, because they saw it was 100 miles long. When taken up on the unlikely nature of their suggestions, PacerLJ35 changed their story to indicate that they “flew next to” the trail, and stated, now, that they “knew” it was 100 miles long, because they flew along it, for a period of time, until they reached the jet leaving the trail, and the distance they flew, they said, was 90 - “about 100” - miles.
When I referred to a cloud apparently being cut in two by an invisible chemtrail, left behind in the air, PHXPilot went against perennial debunker assertions that chemtrail chemicals could not possible fall, in one body, to the ground, by asserting that “wingtip vortices” had fallen from above the cloud, down into the cloud, as one solid body, and caused the cloud to break up! Following up, NW41Heavy, who claims to have flown for King Air, describes pilots there “having fun” with clouds, by “asking for a turn from ATC”, then “passing through” a cloud, then “going back and looking at the path they had cut”! They also describe “having a competition, with other pilots, passing through cloud tops”. Flying, apparently, closer than permitted by law, and in a reckless manner, they “dive down” at a cloud, “hit it”, then “pull up and into a hard bank back around to see the cloud top curling madly from their wake”! Add the evidently unwise, unauthorized and inappropriate stunt of the jet flying only about a half a mile over New York “so the troops aboard can get a good view of the Statue of Liberty”! Violating the rules, and, frankly, putting the welfare of citizens on the street in last place seems a commonplace in the mentality of the “pilot”, it even seems a mandatory requirement for them being allowed into the upper atmosphere!
Far more than any legitimacy behind their precepts, the debunkers apparently rely on the uncertainty of those they target - usually, those new to the issue - to promote their assertions. Through faulty and illegitimate pretenses to reasoning, their actions seem geared more to giving the appearance of validity, while, at the same time, promoting the “principle” that chemtrails are completely normal and utterly safe. But their tactics of “argument”, evidently, never stray from misrepresentation, hypocrisy and fraud, the attitudes of those engaging in the tactics never deviating from one of guile and contempt. The people cannot allow acts of deceit and unscrupulousness to keep them from attaining the truth. Among other things, they must learn the facts and how to avoid the misuse of reasoning to push malignant goals.

posted 07-13-2003 10:59 PM            

I have put in a lot of time and energy trying to persuade the debunker we have in the dungeons of this forum (along with his satellites) that he is not doing his job properly, and certainly honourably, and that he should by now be arguing that chemtrails are for your own good, or something like that, not that there are no chemtrails.

The disinformation he engages in
is much worse than the disinformation of the Cold War, that the Soviet Union represented a deadly, intransigent and merciless threat to the people of America (and the 'free world'). That was not a clean or honourable
fight, but it was at least a fight, with two sides. If the present relentless one-sided attempt to impose unreality and delusion on the populations of the world has any precedent in history I would like to know what it is.

Thank you very much Julian Penrod for your contribution and may we have more food for thought from you of the same quality.

posted 07-18-2003 05:29 AM            

I am trying to pursue it at
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000107.html
http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=Discussion&action=display&num=1058199539

Jay Michaelson's Manhattan Project essay, a masterpiece of dialectical thinking, provides all the tools anyone could ever need for cornering a liar and/or liberating a person in denial.

posted 07-22-2003 03:19 PM            

It is one thing to sit at the head of a corporation responsible for the employ of thousands or people and millions of shareholders. The decisions you make are paper ones and you never get your hands dirty, the old boy network looks after you if you carry on perpetrating the old lies on behalf of the power peers. It is quite another to be a paid asset to mentally twist and turn half truths in favour of the killers who run the sick corporations, those who seek to profit from all of life’s misery. The paymaster can run, the parasites they employ cannot.

Welcome to the parasitic world of the debunker. Every group has them, some are friendly, personable and you cannot help but like them, others are secretive and work behind the scenes. Some are so in your face and threatening that you cannot help them, they are beyond redemption. Nevertheless, all of them have one thing in common; they are the worst kind of criminals, they are the traitors to humanity.

It is time to take legal action against the professional debunkers, for their crimes against humanity, and against their own souls.

Debunkers, those professional people who deem it their duty to help save the world from the so-called twisted imaginations of the gullible, the deprived and the liars. I.e. in their language, anyone who seeks truth and wants to spread the word too as many people as possible. The more successful and determined you are to bring the light of truth to the masses, the more debunkers you attract, along with this will be constant half truths, false accusations and out right verbal abuse. If that does not work, you are flamed and virus attacked on a daily basis. The higher you go up the genuine activist’s tree, the more the abuse and the whisperings, they play the spy on spy game, another form of divide and conquer. If you are unfortunate enough to crack the whole fraud you life becomes in danger, if you are famous enough non-lethal tactics are used to stall your progress. However, the whispering behind the scenes is like an unseen cancer eating away at you

To demonstrate my findings I will use two well-known figures in the chemtrail debate. For this example, I will choose Will Thomas and Jay Reynolds.

Will Thomas http://www.willthomas.net/isbushnuts.htm An independent journalist who learned his craft on the streets of Milwaukee, Chicago and Woodstock during the 'Sixties, William Thomas reported for the Environment News Service while serving as a member of a three-man Gulf Environmental Emergency Response Team during and immediately following the Gulf War.
Specializing in military affairs, health and the environment, William Thomas is an award-winning investigative journalist specializing in health, the environment and military affairs. During and immediately after the Gulf War, he served five months in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait as a member of a three-man environmental emergency response team.
Thomas' writing and photography have appeared in more than 50 publications in eight countries, with translations into French, Dutch and Japanese. His commentaries have appeared in The Globe and Mail, The Toronto Star, The Vancouver Sun and Times-Colonist newspapers - as well as Monday, Earth Island Journal and Ecodecision magazines. He is a frequent guest on American "talk radio," and has appeared on New Zealand and Canadian national radio and television.

Jay Reynolds http://www.goodsky.homestead.com/files/aboutjay.html He attended the Texas Maritime Academy of Texas A&M University at Galveston, TX, graduating in 1977 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Marine Engineering. During that time, he was able to travel worldwide and qualified to become a Third Assistant Ship's Engineer, Steam/Diesel, Unlimited Horsepower.
His studies at the University included all engineering disciplines, with heavy emphasis on power generation and marine propulsion systems, and also oceanography, meteorology, and navigation.

After graduation, he received further training and became a Field Service Engineer for the General Electric Corporation, working on the Texas gulf coast providing technical direction in both construction and maintenance of large steam and gas turbines and shipboard engines. seeking further opportunity, he moved to the island of St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands, and joined the Hess Oil Virgin Islands Corporation, where he was employed as a Gas Turbine Engineer and supervised maintenance of nine gas turbine power generators with waste heat recovery boilers at one of the world's largest oil refineries.

Now instantly the reader can see the disparity between these two individuals. Will an Eco Warrior and Jay a corporate oilman. Both each other’s nemesis. However, this is where the action of the individuals clearly marks their intent.

The chemtrail connection:

Jay Reynolds the resident debunker at chemtrail central has used every trick in the book to deny even the mere existence of chemtrails (The name originally invented by Will Thomas) and for a number of years has used his own knowledge and the help of oil and pharmacy connections to bag chemtrails into the conspiracy debunk bin.

Will Thomas has written endlessly on the chemtrail conundrum, preferring research to a slanging match with what he knows is a paid debunking parasite. Jay in the meantime uses his ego to inflate his own theories about how he has uncovered Will’s alleged untruths, while all the time conspiring and manipulating any data that he feels fit his own sadistic ends.

Dear reader I mean sadistic, Jay Reynolds has over the years recruited his own little army of followers, eager to please there master, they act like a troop of commandoes, splicing every article that scrapes at the covers of the deception. Instantly replying to activists posts, picking the bones of the points that suit there deadly game and it is a very deadly game they play. For at the heart of their chosen profession is a cover up of massive proportions.

For these projection operators with parasitic greedy eyes have but one thing in common, they are the true protectors of crimes against humanity real traitors. In fact they are paid to lie as life is obliterated by there falsehoods, as the clock ticks on a sustainable future for all planets inhabitants, their sole job is too keep the clock ticking in the favour of their pay masters.

The lies they sell are poisons packed in an unmarked jets bitter edge pill. They feed of the knowledge of uncertainty and the secrecy of so-called national security. Like their masters they will fail as the masses wake up and the curtains of deception come tumbling down. Their only reward will be Jail, possibly the death penalty for they cannot hide behind the archived information they have put out, neither will they be able to hide behind the powers that be, for they will have long gone and left these parasites to gestate on there own carcasses.

I hereby charge all debunkers with crimes against humanity and collective traitors against the world and hope they rot in their own infestation. The truth is coming into focus, they have nowhere left to perpetrate their sick crimes and there will be no hiding place for them as they have nowhere to run and nothing to hide behind. They are the faces of the crime and will never again be able to darken the doors of those who stand up for the truth.

Proof of their crimes against humanity are surfacing all over the globe and once the final piece of evidence is put into place, they will be gone forever. This is no false promise it is a fact laid out by the lies and the abuse they have perpetrated. Their masters will feel only the loss of their bank balances, these maggots will feel the might of the NEW law.

posted 07-23-2003 05:23 AM            

The White House's extensive connections to the pharmacy industry via persons
like George Bush I using CIA type methods to cover up the huge liabilities of
the vaccine makers is at the root of the problems. His corrupted son, Bush II,
is at the root of sustaining the problem and putting the chemtrails program
in full power when he took office. The problem with the US is that it has been
taken over by corrupted persons that exceed that posed by Adolph Hitler. It is
also déjà vu that these person's family history is well tied to these Hitler
companies and methods.

This criminal issue is very serious and affects the core of the US Govt. from
the White House Cabinet, the Joint Chiefs, and the lions share of the GOP
Congress. They are acting as in illegal Cabala to make money from dealing death
via deception of the citizens and the world. This is totally out of control,
fueled by misuse of national security classification, half truths, and
liabilities cover ups. The American citizens are in trouble and need the help of the
world to help them overcome this massive evil. Consider the expose on chemtrails
to be a "Mayday" call to help the dumbed-down American public.

Part of what is fueling keeping the American public in the dark is the
confusion being intentionally caused by the so called "Debunkers." Their intention
to help these corrupted industries and Govt. types avoid having this huge
problem exposed. The biggest and highest profile Gulf War debunker is one called
Mike Fumento. He denies that the Vets are affected by a pattern of symptoms
called Gulf War Syndrome. Gulf War Vets symptoms and those of DOE gas diffusion
workers are extremely similar because they both stem from the same G-protein
fluoride-metal complex causation. This damage vector explains the mechanism for
damage in both groups of persons. There is a very real, and established by
research, cause for the illnesses. This is contrary to the debunkers like Fumento
that keep these sick veterans in health limbo.

It is these effects to conceal harm that are the reason for my disapproval
toward the larger debunker type community. Their intention is to use and promote
information chaos and allow the problems to be concealed. This harms the US
citizens, the veterans, and many in other countries. The definition for what
these debunkers do is consistent with treason. A treason against the people that
promotes the protection for the corrupted industries that cause health
problems in the population. This threatens the viability of the country. It
threatens our view by others in the world.

This process is the root of what is driving terrorism. Terrorism attacked
airplanes that are used to do the chemtrail techniques and they also attacked the
WTC symbol to promote this industry corruption and control around the world.
The Bush family is hated by these religion based terrorism factions. It would
appear they are more aware of what is going on in the US than the citizens
themselves. The Bush empire is using and abusing the world in the cover up for
AIDS causation and making their pharmacology corporations rich.

posted 07-23-2003 06:36 PM            

And at least 90% accurate.

EX. Like how BUSH SR. Is a huge shareholder in Eli Lily.

Yes...the $#!+ is going to hit the fan shortly.

After which..the likes of Jay Reynolds will fade into obscurity....well, mabye not.

He will find something else to "debunk".

Every Generation has had to deal with their own lot of Benedict Arnolds.

This is a war against most of the population of the earth by the NWO/Illuminati. Puppet Bu$h is merely their man to make it look all nice and ligitimate.

Nice work Eggs.