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  New HAARP whistle blower (Page 6)

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Topic:   New HAARP whistle blower

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 03:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not expecting to win a popularity contest or be judged by how popular my posts are. I am just one voice of many that is attempting to help others understand chemtrails and that they are also caused by you and I by not paying attention to what we do to the environment. We outnumber the planes that dump fuel in the atmosphere each day and we outnumber the other methods. So we must blame ourselves first before we can post info on other’s that are responsible. The Government makes up a part but we all make up the rest every time you get in your car or buy a product that was made with bad chemicals. Or every time you throw paper or plastic or flush chemicals to the rivers and oceans or even just oil change. So many posts on this board are directed against the enemy but the enemy is within us all. We must stop adding to the chemtrail equation then go after the planes and other contributors. Gee I saw a trail in the sky, I wonder if I or my neighbor caused it when she flushed her photo developer chemicals down the drain or my neighbor who sprayed her lawn with pesticide?

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-27-2003 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You don't need to be a scientist to come up with thinking of this quality. The 15-year-old next door could have written this.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:

yes, that is true but a 15 year old did not. So look around your house and see what you can do to stop the evaporation into the layer. Every effort helps in the chemtrail problem. HR2977 and I are becoming friends.
Its SHOWTIME!!!

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-27-2003 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Look, don't forget who you introduced yourself as when you came to this forum. If you are just going to be a run-of-the-mill participant here, and an unoriginal one at that when it comes to your political thinking, then I am going to stop wasting my time debating with you, and defending you in the Council.

I am also going to stop asking you to post your information at a forum of your own, since I see you have no intention of doing this, and in any case you have stopped providing information.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:
I have alot of respect for you and what you have contributed to this forum. By me branching off will only confuse the issue. It takes some time to compile the data you and others seek. But I prmoise you, you will not be let down. There is enough cut and paste data posted here form all sides, and I am not writing a book to sell on what i know, I am not seeking donations or selling any gizmos to make money. I have plenty! The approach I take will be different from others and will not just claim but will present facts that can be used as a wedge to get all answers and maybe even getting HR2977 passed!
Your dealing with a very large Dragon and must be careful when roaming in its cave!
People are posting info that is public and with no answers, only claims and complaints. Look at the board and just see reference only posts, and of course money making products! You need proof and answers and closure so you all can contribute to the well-being of the human race and not be fearful of being YOU!

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-27-2003 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have not presented a good reason for not opening another forum of your own where you can do the moderating.

What is HR2977, and what do you think of the initiatives of people like Al Snow, the councillor of La Verkin, Utah, who has just published a book called "Chemtrails, Death from the Sky"?

La Verkin, Utah made headlines when it was declared a UN-Free zone. Al Snow was a prime mover in that too.

Gore Vidal, a rigorous opponent of the Bush regime and equally strong supporter of the United Nations has said he thinks it would be good for the U.S. to leave the United Nations for a while.

It is logical for those who wanted the Baltic republics to get out of the USSR and the Chechens to get out of Russia also to want the US to get out of the UN.

With the stand Al Snow is taking on chemtrails I think it is logical for people in other countries to support him on this single-issue basis. What about Americans?

The polarisation of American politics between anti-UN Republicans and pro-UN Democrats is ridiculous.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-27-2003 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:

I agree with Mr. Snow and will be in contact with him soon! I support what you say! Also I
Am looking into changing the thread here and start a new one dedicated to HAARP and Chemtrails under my watchful eye. Note: I am in contact with Senators to gain support!
Below is Hr2977:


HR 2977 IH
107th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 2977
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001
Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.
SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.
Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.
SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.
The President shall--
(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States; and
(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States and their components.
SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.
The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world agreement banning space-based weapons.
SEC. 5. REPORT.
The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--
(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and
(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.
SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.
Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--
(1) space exploration;
(2) space research and development;
(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or
(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.
SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.
In this Act:
(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.
(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:
(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--
(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;
(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;
(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or
(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.
(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--
(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);
(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or
(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.
(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.
(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-27-2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Will Thomas got all excited about what Kucinich was doing on this front. Then he went quiet.

He doesn't seem to have written about chemtrails for a while now.

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-28-2003 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mark, what do you think about him saying that he is going to contact councillor Al Snow?

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-28-2003 01:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also note this exchange with Seeker:

Halva: The U.N. has become much worse and much more of menace to the freedoms of Americans

Seeker: havla...don't think for a minute you have any leg up, as far as knowledge,of what's going on...you can play that authoritarian crapola with the rest of the class but don't give me your sanctimoniously incorrect opinion regarding me my actions or the one's of this country...

you have been believing a liar for weeks now...

and I had him pegged from the git-go...

Halva's present comment:
You have put your credibility on the line, Dr. Judah Ben-Hur, saying that you will contact councillor Snow.

Will Seeker be forced to eat his words, or will you be?

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-28-2003 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From the "activists only" section of this forum:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by halva:

....what do you think of the initiatives of people like Al Snow, the councillor of La Verkin, Utah, who has just published a book called "Chemtrails, Death from the Sky"?

La Verkin, Utah made headlines when it was declared a UN-Free zone. Al Snow was a prime mover in that too.


Judah Ben-Hur
Halva:
I agree with Mr. Snow and will be in contact with him soon! I support what you say!

Halva continues:

Note this exchange with Seeker:

Halva: The U.N. has become much worse and much more of menace to the freedoms of Americans

Seeker: havla...don't think for a minute you have any leg up, as far as knowledge,of what's going on...you can play that authoritarian crapola with the rest of the class but don't give me your sanctimoniously incorrect opinion regarding me my actions or the one's of this country...

you have been believing a liar for weeks now...

and I had him pegged from the git-go...

Halva's present comment:

You have put your credibility on the line, Dr. Judah Ben-Hur, saying that you will contact councillor Snow.

Will Seeker be forced to eat his words, or will you be?


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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-28-2003 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The previous post is in the wrong section. I tried to delete it, which as the person who posted it I am supposed to be able to do.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:

You are doing an excellent job! This other person seems to be afraid of something that will expose and educate. Sometimes humans like to live in a dream world because it gives them comfort and power!
I will contact Mr. Snow to exchange ideas and see where I can help at this stage.
Its so easy for people to cast stones at those who only wish to help or maybe this person wishes to remain asleep!
The United States owes its exsistence to Athens and Sparta for giving the doctrine of Democracy! The UN is another issue.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by gaiacomm on 08-28-2003]

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
La Verkin now feels vindicated
Copyright 2003 Deseret News

By Nancy Perkins
Deseret News correspondent

LA VERKIN, Washington County — The southern Utah community of La Verkin received international attention — much of it negative — when it essentially, if temporarily, banned the United Nations from town two years ago.
Now, buoyed by a state legislative committee's passage of a resolution asking Congress to get the United States out of the United Nations, one City Council member in this rural town, a gateway to Zion National Park, is ready to leap into geopolitics once again.
"This helps give our referendum credibility," said Al Snow after reviewing the language of the resolution before the Legislature. "Everybody tried to make me out that I was paranoid about the U.N. or something. I feel like I'm vindicated."
Web extra
Feb. 11, 2003: Utah House committee advances anti-U.N. resolution
Jan. 17, 2002: La Verkin repeals U.N. ordinance

July 26, 2001: La Verkin waters down U.N. law

July 5, 2001: La Verkin Council declares town a U.N.-Free Zone


City Council members, in a 3-2 vote on July 4, 2001, passed a controversial "United Nations Free Zone Ordinance" that banned the international body from La Verkin. Three weeks later the ordinance was revised, removing sections deemed unconstitutional by Utah's attorney general and the city attorney. Once again it passed on a 3-2 vote.
The council's action didn't sit well with most voters. Citizens refused to reinstate the mayor for a second term, even though he didn't have a vote in the matter. He did, however, vigorously support the ordinance. In addition, two police officers quit in protest, and two council members who supported the new law didn't seek re-election.
Those candidates who did win a seat on the next council were not fans of the city's anti-U.N. stance. In fact, as its first action of official business in 2002, the new council voted to revoke the ordinance that had thrust this small town into the spotlight.
The Utah House resolution was forwarded to the full House on Tuesday. It doesn't require state Senate or gubernatorial approval. If it passes, it will be sent to the Utah delegation and Congress
The measure carries no power of law.
Still, Snow, the council's original supporter of the anti-U.N. ordinance, sees the legislative effort as validation of his successful effort to gather enough signatures to place a referendum on November's ballot to overturn the council's decision and reinstate La Verkin's revised ordinance.
Debi Groves, the city recorder, said developing the referendum's language so that it is clear and not misleading will be a challenge.
"I want people to know exactly what they're doing when they vote yes or no on the referendum," said Groves. "The terminology on the referendum needs to be straight and forthright."

La Verkin Councilman Al Snow displays a sign representing his sentiments on the United Nations.

Nancy Perkins, Deseret News
Voters could easily get confused on the referendum's purpose, since the United Nations Free Zone Ordinance was passed, then revised and passed a second time, and eventually repealed, she said.
"I am definitely going to send out a voter information pamphlet sometime after July," Groves said. "We've talked about having open houses and getting public input on the referendum language, but I don't know if we'll do that for sure. But the desire is there, and that's my intent."
The original ordinance made it illegal for U.N. personnel or facilities to be located within city limits and for any U.N.-funded programs or sponsored activities to take place there. It also sought to protect residents from being forced to serve the United Nations in any capacity and restricted the city from investing in anything related to the global organization.
Those who worked for La Verkin were prohibited from cooperating with U.N. activities, and residents who worked for any U.N.-financed project were required to file an annual report of activities with the city and post a sign stating "United Nations work conducted here."
The revised ordinance banned U.N. personnel from La Verkin and prohibited the city from flying a U.N. flag at the city offices or making financial contributions to the global organization. The ordinance also made any U.N. tax or international court decree issued by the United Nations invalid in the city. An enforcement clause would charge violators with a class-C misdemeanor.
The ordinance, even in its newest form, is bad law, says La Verkin Police Chief Kim Seegmiller.
"I don't think the referendum should pass, and I think it's unenforceable," Seegmiller said. "I simply believe the referendum imposes an individual's opinion about the United Nations on others, and government shouldn't do that."

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anti-U.N. resolution advances
By Bob Bernick Jr.
Deseret News political editor

A resolution asking Congress to get the United States out of the United Nations passed a Utah House committee Tuesday, but it is unclear if its ultimate passage would have any fallout.
Rep. Don Bush's HR7 has no power of law. It would only be a statement of how the House alone feels; it does not go to the Senate nor to Gov. Mike Leavitt for approval. Still some legislators worried about the message it may send as America prepares for war against Iraq and President Bush implores the United Nations to stand with the United States against Saddam Hussein.
In fact, Leavitt spokeswoman Natalie Gochnour said Leavitt "understands these sentiments" of getting the United States out of the United Nations. "But he does not share them," she said.
No one at the committee hearing spoke against HR7, while around a dozen people wanted to speak in favor. Over an hour of testimony led to only two members voting against it — Reps. Roz McGee, D-Salt Lake, and Loraine Pace, R-Logan.
The resolution now goes to the House for consideration. If it passes, it will be sent to the Utah delegation and Congress. However, state legislatures send hundreds of resolutions to Congress each year, and while they may be read into the Congressional Record, their political impact is unclear.
Pace said the United States is the strongest country in the world and that it has not abrogated its sovereignty to the United Nations. "Our president and Congress" decide where and when to commit American troops, she said.
Utah's congressional delegation "does not support" getting out of the United Nations at this time, she added. "I've talked to them. As we approach war we should not send this message — that we do not want to talk at the (U.N.) table."
At the end of his presentation, Bush, R-Clearfield, showed the committee the medals he won fighting in WWII and the Korean War, the latter a war sanctioned and supported by the United Nations. "I actually have a U.N. medal," he pointed out.
But because the United Nations has for years stood against American values and has not supported the United States in many "of the things it says and does," Bush said now is the perfect time — with another U.N.-sanctioned war possible in Iraq — to make the statement that we should get out of the United Nations.
"If not for the United Nations, we wouldn't have a North and South Korea; it would be a whole country" because the United States would have won that war, said Bush. "If no U.N,, no Iraq. We could have finished them off" in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, he added.
McGee said while much testimony was given on why the United Nations doesn't reflect some American values, "nothing was said about U.N. programs on (preventing) the abuse of women and children, its worldwide education programs, its advocacy of the free enterprise system and its battles against disease and hunger." Ed McGarr of Lindon rattled off more than a dozen UN operations where U.S. troops were sent on "combat, peace-keeping or other missions" since 1990. Few Americans have even heard of these operations, he said, which have cost the U.S. taxpayer $23 billion over a decade. He said he'd be proud to have his 13-year-old son fight and die for an American cause and war, but certainly not for a U.N. war.
Gayle Ruzicka of Utah Eagle Forum says her national organization sends lobbyists around the world monitoring the work of the United Nations. The United Nations doesn't stand for American rights or beliefs, she said, "whether it's on abortion, homosexual rights or equal rights. Their positions are outrageous. Please, the message this resolution sends is important."
"This issue is bigger than the Utah Legislature," said Ann Turner, head of the northern Utah branch of Get Us Out of the United Nations.
Godless and greedy men, bent on power and control, created the United Nations, she said.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
La Verkin repeals U.N. ordinance
By Nancy Perkins
Deseret News correspondent

LA VERKIN, Washington County — The country's first U.N.-free zone was voted out of existence Wednesday night.
After more than two hours of discussion and a failed motion to table the issue, La Verkin council members voted 4-1 to repeal the controversial ordinance. A resolution that reiterates the city's support of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights was introduced and also passed by a 4-1 vote.
Councilman Al Snow, the lone supporter of the ordinance, vowed to take his message directly to La Verkin voters by seeking a referendum. Snow also voted against the resolution, saying it "lacked teeth" and "wouldn't keep anyone from coming into town."
The U.N.-free zone ordinance was passed on July 4 of last year and then amended after Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff said it violated several constitutional freedoms. The first version of the ordinance required anyone doing business with the U.N. to post a sign saying such, prohibited flying the U.N. flag within town limits and made it illegal for city employees to participate in any U.N.-sponsored project.







Many residents were outraged by language in the ordinance and the fact that it was passed on the Fourth of July. Two of the city's part-time police officers quit within days of the new law's passage, citing concerns that the ordinance violated personal freedoms or conflicted with other commitments, such as the National Guard.
The final version of the ordinance, passed July 24, eliminated those concerns and imposed, instead, restrictions on the city from making financial contributions to the U.N. or from flying a U.N. flag on the city flagpole. Any U.N. tax or international court decree issued by the U.N. would be invalid in the city, and no U.N. troops could be stationed in town. Violators could be charged with a class-C misdemeanor.
The anti-United Nations ordinance has divided this town's 3,500 citizens. Some residents are embarrassed by all the media attention the ordinance has brought them, while others say the notoriety has been good for the town and has opened their eyes to the "evil" of the United Nations.
The ordinance also figured heavily in November's general election, with voters selecting two new council members opposed to the ordinance. Voters also rejected Mayor Dan Howard, an ardent supporter of the anti-U.N. ordinance, choosing instead Tom Stocks, who said the voters ought to decide the issue.
A third councilman was appointed after Victor Iverson, another strong supporter of the anti-U.N. ordinance, resigned the day after general elections. His replacement, Lance Gifford, agrees with Snow that the United Nations is no friend to America.
"I agree with Al, but I don't agree with the method the ordinance was done in the first place," Gifford said. "If it comes to a vote and the people want it back, you'll have my vote."
Several members of the audience questioned the patriotism and courage of those who voted to repeal the anti-United Nations ordinance. One man said he would "take a bullet" for Snow, and a woman said she wanted to be the first to sign Snow's petition for the referendum.
"You're going to see Al Snow on talk radio, TV and in the newspaper," vowed Snow after the ordinance was repealed. "I will not let this go. They think it'll go away, but it won't. I'm going to stand up and make sure it's done."
Councilman Gary McKell, the only other council member there who originally voted against the ordinance in July, told Snow to "let it go."
Councilman David Wilson, who campaigned on a promise to get the ordinance repealed, also wanted to move on.
"We've already had two public hearings on this and we just had another one in November," Wilson said. "We've had enough discussion about it ever since July. I think that's enough hearings."

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LaVerkin Council declares town a U.N.-Free Zone
By Nancy Perkins
Deseret News correspondent

LAVERKIN, Washington County — The City Council voted 3-2 in a special session Wednesday night to keep the United Nations out of its business by declaring the town a United Nations-Free Zone.
"Any private party who wants to wave the U.N. flag and support the U.N. can do that," said Mayor Dan Howard Thursday morning. "This ordinance simply puts limitations on what can be done with and on city property."
More than 50 people attended the meeting, many in support of the proposed legislation. Several who spoke during the public comment period said council members were doing the right thing by "standing up to the United Nations."
The ordinance prohibits the use of U.N. insignia on city property and spending city funds to support the United Nations. A dozen changes were made to the ordinance before its passage, including clarifying language involving the payment of any taxes, the mayor said.
Some opponents of the ordinance said the new law would give people a city-sponsored reason to stop paying any taxes that might go toward payment of dues to the United Nations.







"There's been a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about this ordinance. This is not a tax dodge, and it doesn't infringe on anybody's right to free speech. We went through the ordinance before we passed it, and that's not our intent at all," Howard said.
Enforcing the ordinance, which carries a Class C misdemeanor penalty, will not be difficult either, since the city doesn't expect any violations, he added. "There's really not much that needs to be enforced, since it deals with city funds and property," the mayor said. "Although the ordinance does make a statement, it's still enforceable."
Howard, who did not have a vote on the issue, said his support of the ordinance comes from a deep desire to keep LaVerkin free from those who want to micromanage its resources and land.
He pointed to the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance as one prime example of a group that needs to be watched.
"SUWA has connections to the U.N., and they're trying to tell us how we can develop our own land," Howard said. "We know what's best for us."
Mike Reberg, SUWA communications coordinator, was surprised Thursday upon hearing the mayor's concerns.
"You'll have to give me a minute here to think about that," Reberg said, laughing. "I've never had to think about how we're connected to the United Nations.
"For some people, evoking the specter of the bogeyman has always been easier than rational discourse," he said.
Two council members voted against the ordinance, saying they would rather see the city pass a resolution stating their opposition to the United Nations.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Kettle Moraine, Ltd.
17750 W. Elliot Rd.
PMB #119
Goodyear, AZ 85338
(623) 327-1778

August 28, 2003 Vol. 03, No. 239




Stang: Joe Ferguson Responds
Joe Ferguson Responds To Mr. CEO's Defense Of UN
By Alan Stang



Joe Ferguson has been an airline captain for many years. It was Joe who proved that KAL 007, with JBS Chairman Dr. Larry McDonald aboard, did not blow up, but most probably landed on Sakhalin Island. Joe Ferguson doesn't mention this, but it is important to note that he is of course a staunch Mormon. Notice also that Joe is not hostile to Mr. CEO. He believes the latest outrage is an aberration, a fluke. Of course, I disagree with him--the latest outrage is typical Mr. CEO subversion--but having known Joe for many years, I can tell you that he is totally without guile, and that when he tells you something you can be sure he believes it. Here is his letter.

Joe H. Ferguson
P.O. Box 526
American Fork, Utah 84003
801- Ph & Fx joeferg@
20 August 2001

Mr. G. Vance Smith, Chief Executive Officer
THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY
P.O. Box 8040
Appleton, Wisconsin 54912

Subject: Your news release dated July 20 regarding the La Verkin Ordinance. You ridiculed and demeaned some good and courageous people.

Dear Vance,
For those reading this letter who might not know me, I have been a member of the John Birch Society since January of 1964 and a Life Member since shortly thereafter. I am possibly one of the most generous donors to JBS activities in the state of Utah, although I am not a wealthy man. I have always considered Mr. Robert Welch to be one of my personal heroes, and I always will. I have worked and fought for the John Birch Society and its causes in the behalf of truth and justice for nearly 37 years.

Your news release, however, left me shocked, bewildered, dismayed, embarrassed, and angered. Having known you three gentlemen whose names appear on the release, I could not believe that this came from any of you. This release reflects a shallowness of thought, a paucity of wisdom, and a calloused disregard for some good people who are on the right side of this battle against the United Nations and its design for a one-world socialist government.

The people who enacted this ordinance are our friends. At least consider them to be my friends! Why should we insult and alienate our friends? Why could you not have declared to the public in your news release that this ordinance was not the product of the John Birch Society, informed it of JBS efforts to Get US Out of the UN, and then contact the mayor and members of the City Council in a confidential manner and suggest to them that, in your opinion, they might have made some errors? I would be very surprised if you would not have been able to exchange ideas and arrive at a consensus or near-consensus. Instead, you publicly ridiculed and demeaned the efforts of some well-intentioned, well-informed and very courageous people. Your use of terms such as, "nonsense" and "ludicrous" is trite, unprofessional and inexcusable. Furthermore, your attacks reveal a shallowness of thought compared with the depth of thought revealed by attorney Herb Titus, who advised Mayor Dan Howard and the members of the La Verkin City Council.

The John Birch Society is, very correctly, supporting legislation by the Honorable Ron Paul, HR 1146. The irony of this situation is that Mr. Herb Titus, whose work you ridicule, is the senior legal advisor to Congressman Paul's The Liberty Committee which Dr. Paul founded and of which Dr. Paul is honorary chairman. Mr. Titus' research and thinking are reflected in H.R. 1146. It is also reflected in the La Verkin Ordinance. In ridiculing the work of Mr. Titus, you have shot yourself in the foot and placed yourself in a most unenviable as well as indefensible position. Furthermore, I believe that most members of the JBS as well as most well-informed Americans will agree with Mr. Titus-and disagree with you--on many of the allegations made in your news release. I certainly do-and I am both a Life Member of The John Birch Society and a serious student of the Constitution and of government.

On page 1, par. 1, you state, "The John Birch Society does not support the notion of UN - free zones..." Well, I certainly support that notion! I would like for the entire United States to be a UN-free zone, even if this freedom has to be won city by city, county by county and state by state. You condemn the officials of a local government for desiring to protect its citizens from criminal acts. My understanding is that any act that is unconstitutional is unlawful, and therefore criminal. Any powers exercised against the citizens of La Verkin by any agent of the UN which violates the constitutional rights of those citizens would therefore be criminal. I therefore must enthusiastically agree with the La Verkin Council and, consequently, disagree with you.

Every member of the La Verkin City Council has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Utah. Many acts of the UN violate both of these constitutions. It appears to me that the Council acted in complete accord with the spirit of the Declaration of Independence: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to..." I wish that every city council, every state legislature and every governor of every state in the United States would take the same position as has the City Council of La Verkin, Utah.

On page 1, par. # 3, you state, as if it were something awful, "It is confrontational,..." My GOODNESS, Mr. Smith! I do hope that you can find some very comfortable and cozy spot in which to repose and seek comfort while those with the wisdom and courage to do so CONFRONT the enemies of freedom at any and every spot and situation where they can win a victory. Is your primary objective to enjoy the luxury of a "confrontation-free zone?" We can thank our Creator that the Founding Fathers were not so inclined! I say "Hurrah" to the City Council of La Verkin for confronting the enemy-and being very effective in doing so. Also on page 1, par # 6, you state, "Not true," in reply to "The United Nations Charter is not a treaty made under the authority of the United States." To resolve whether the statement is "True" or "Not true," one must examine the two schools of thoughts on at least three questions. These questions, as well as answers espoused by the two schools of thought, shown as "A" and "B," are as follows:

Question # I: Is any and every action taken by the President and the U.S. Senate done under the authority of the United States?

A. "Yes."
B. "No-- the authority of the President and of the U.S. Senate is limited to that found in the Constitution and that any acts not authorized by it constitute usurpation and are therefore unconstitutional and not done under the authority of the United States."

Question # II: Was the document signed by the U.S. Senate on the 28th of July, 1945 (The United Nations Charter) a simple treaty or was it something more?

A. "It was a simple treaty."
B. "It was much more. It created a new government-a world government, and transferred a certain amount of sovereignty from the United States to the United Nations."

Question # 3: Does a treaty or, in this case, the Charter of the United Nations, supercede the Constitution of the United States?

A. "Yes."
B. "No-The Constitution of the United States is the Supreme Law of the Land, as stated in Article VI of that document. Being so, it is supreme to any other law, including a treaty."

As far as I can determine, the Council at La Verkin would answer "B" to all of the above questions. Those who would answer "A" would be those who knowingly support the UN and its objective of one-world government and those misinformed and uninformed people who know nothing more about the UN than what they are told by the "liberal" media. Your "Not true" statement clearly puts you in opposition to the "B" group and, consequently, into the "A" group. Vance-I can't believe this! If I am mistaken, would you please point out to me in the Constitution of the United States (for that is the only source of authority for the President and the Senate that I consider to be legitimate) where authority is found for the President and the Senate to create a new, world government and to transfer sovereignty from the United States to this new government? If I have missed something, I will be grateful if you would disabuse me.

Also on page 1, par # 7, you say, "This is nonsense" to the ordinance assertion that the UN Charter has "never been submitted to, nor ratified by the People of the United States." I find this assertion to be a very true statement. If I am mistaken, will you please point out to me the occasion and the date when the UN Charter was submitted to and ratified by the People?" You went on to state that treaties are made by the president and ratified by the senate. Your statement is very true. It does not, however, either address or disprove that part of the ordinance. The point is that YOU MISSED THE POINT being made. The thought behind this part of the ordinance was that, to legitimately create a new government, the UN Charter would have had to be submitted to the people. It never was. The president and the senate did not have the authority to do what was done. The UN Charter was not a simple treaty made with another government or other governments.

Much damage has been done by your news release. It has lent strength to those who wish to slap down the courageous and wise mayor and members of the City Council of La Verkin and make an example of them so as to discourage any other local governments from doing the same. I strongly suggest that you take the initiative to correct the damage done. First, you need to do that which you failed to do before you issued your news release, that is to gain an understanding of the thinking of Mr. Titus and of the Council. An analysis of HR 1146 and of the United Nations by Mr. Titus can be found at the website of The Liberty Committee, thelibertycommittee.org. Work your way to the section about "Sovereignty" and click on. Although this analysis itself does raises a couple of questions in my mind, I can nevertheless see the depth of thought that has gone into it. I consider it to be a masterpiece. Brilliant! All defenders of the Constitution and of the sovereignty of the United States including, in my opinion, The John Birch Society, should be using these ideas.

I have much respect for you and the other two gentlemen whose names appear on this news release and have seen excellent work come from each of you. I consider this release to be a fluke; an anomaly; an aberration. Nevertheless, our cause demands that reconciliation be made between all parties involved in this matter and I suggest that the responsibility for initiating this reconciliation rests upon you. If our enemies can display to the world that there is a great ideological and tactical disagreement between the John Birch Society and Mr. Herb Titus, who is the senior legal advisor to The Liberty Committee, chaired by the Honorable Ron Paul, who happens to be the author and sponsor of HR 1146, which the John Birch Society endorses, they will be able to ridicule, divide and neutralize our forces. This needs to be avoided at all costs.

I hope to hear from you and a report on your positive actions to resolve this problem in the near future.

Yours for an UN-Free Zone-- all over America

Joe H. Ferguson
Life Member, The John Birch Society

Cc: Hon. Ron Paul, United States Congress
Cc: Hon. Dan Howard, Mayor, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Hon. Al Snow, Councilman, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Hon. Victor Iverson, Councilman, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Hon. Darren Cottam, Councilman, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Hon. Gary McKell, Councilman, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Hon. Kelly Wilson, Councilman, La Verkin, Utah
Cc: Mr. John F. McManus, President, The John Birch Society
Cc: Walter Ruckel, Member of the Council, The John Birch Society
Cc: Dr. Phillip Binzel, Member of the Council, The John Birch Society
Cc: General Andrew Gatsis, Member of the Council, The John Birch Society
Cc: Mr. Cliff Wassum, Member of the Council, The John Birch Society
Cc: Mr. Herb Titus, Legal advisor to The Liberty Committee
Cc: Mr. Gary Benoit, Editor, The New American
Cc: Mr. Don Fotheringham
Cc: Mr. Thomas Rice, Development officer, The John Birch Society
Cc: Mr. Bliss Tew, Coordinator, The John Birch Society
Cc: Mr. Bert N. Smith

About the Author
Alan Stang was, for two decades, a senior writer for the John Birch Society's American Opinion magazine, and was Robert Welch's closest confidant. A former talk-radio host, he is also the author of ten books, including, most recently, Perestroika Sunset, surrounding our Government's deception in the POW/MIA arena. He is a regular columnist for Ether Zone.


Source: Alan Stang







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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-28-2003 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:

Inform and educate!

You could call Al Snow at his place of work (435-628-8786) or at his home in LaVerkin (435-635-2520).
Good luck!
Nancy Perkins
On Thursday, August 28, 2003, at 09:07 AM, Judah Ben-Hur wrote:



Dear Nancy;

I would like to be in contact with Mr. Snow to discuss some issues. Is that possible?

Regards,
Dr. Judah Ben-Hur
CTO
Gaiacomm www.gaiacomm.org
gaiacomm@att.net

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halva
Senior Member

Greece
475 posts, Dec 2002

posted 08-28-2003 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for halva   Email halva   Visit halva's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for this info, gaiacomm.

By the way, Brian Holmes just provided some useful info for French-language interest in chemtrails.
http://www.conspiration.cc/

I opened a separate thread on it. If anyone wants to try to track down French-speaking people in local government who have taken up the issue, go to it. Let's build our local government network.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-29-2003 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Halva:

No problem. Now we are cooking!

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-30-2003 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HAARP will be conducting tests on Sept 3.2003 for 3 days to recheck its power output and antenna array. It also will be injecting protonic ions into the 5th layer. The results will be cloud streams that will carry a high content of moisture and high electron activity that will result in emf bursts that will cause slight interference with rf signals. severe weather over the northeast and eastern coast will also be evident.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-31-2003 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Update:

I am still working on the report promised. It will be non technical so as not to seperate anyone from understanding. I have been given the green light to begin the 1st stage design of a New (HAARP) program in Florida. But Bernard Eastlund will not be included on this project and I will attempt to keep an open mind when designing. After the proof of concept phase is complete I will request an open door policy so that anyone can view the new project within reason and control.

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-31-2003 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.weathermod.com/index.html

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gaiacomm
Senior Member


Los Angeles, California, USA
272 posts, Aug 2003

posted 08-31-2003 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gaiacomm   Email gaiacomm   Visit gaiacomm's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Expert Wants Climatic Changes to be Looked at Scientifically


A Chinese meteorological expert has called on people to take a scientific attitude toward climaticand weather changes, instead of being pessimistic and panicking.

Lu Juntian, an expert with the State Meteorological Center (SMC), believes that human beings will increase their understanding of nature and become more adept at forecasting and preventing natural disasters.


China has experienced frequent climatic changes since the beginning of the year. These include a warm winter, regional dust storms, and the present higher than usual spring temperatures which are affecting most of the country.


Lu says, people should not make sweeping statements about the weather and call it abnormal without scientific back-up.


According to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), "abnormal weather" is defined as a climatic phenomenon which occursonly every 25 years or more.


Based on meteorological statistics, the just-ended winter is not only the 16th consecutive warm winter in China but is also China's second warmest winter in 40 years, Lu says.


Using the WMO definition it can thus be called abnormal weather, Lu says.


As for the dust storms which hit much of north China recently, Lu says, they cannot be called "abnormal" according to the WMO definition. Over the last 25 years and even longer the frequency of sandstorms in China has reduced and not increased, Lu adds.


Lu says that people should not refer to climatic changes in one area as if they were occurring countrywide. On March 31, the temperature in Beijing reached 28.7 degrees Celsius, the city's highest since 1914 for this time of the year. This maybe abnormal in Beijing, but not for the whole country, Lu notes.


The expert says that at present, the earth's climate is undergoing marked changes, one of which is global warming. Becauseof this all countries in the world, including China, are encountering varying degrees of abnormal climatic changes.


Statistics show that the number of climatic disasters worldwide in the 1991-2000 period was five times higher than 50 years ago.


To counteract this, all countries in the world are working hard to reduce the harmful effects of extreme weather and climatic changes, Lu says.


(Xinhua News Agency April 4, 2002)


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