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Topic: JP-8+100 Jet Fuel | Topic page views:
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 07-09-2001 05:29 PM
In 1998 the U.S. Air Force introduced JP-8+100, an improved JP-8 fuel with a "fuel injector cleaner" (additive) that reduces fouling/coking in engine fuel controls, mainburner fuel nozzles, manifolds and augmentor sprayrings/spraybars and reduces smoke and soot in older engines. To initiate its transition, the JP-8 specification (MIL-T-83133D) was amended to allow limited use of the additive. http://www.wrs.afrl.af.mil/infores/sstories/ss96/ss59_96.htm [The following is new material, which can be found at http://www.af.mil/environment/contrails_exhaust.shtml ] Often, military aircraft can be seen taking off with a black smoke appearing from the engines. This smoke is mainly soot particles, similar to diesel engines. Commercial aircraft also produce the same type of soot particles, but usually not to the same degree as military aircraft. This is for two reasons: the type of fuel and the type of engines.Most military aircraft use JP-8 jet fuel which is a blend of commercial Jet Aviation Fuel -1 (or Jet A-1) with three extra additives. The additives are used to control ice formation, control biogrowth (molds and slimes), and inhibit corrosion. The military uses these additives because of the unique environments the military operates in, the type of self-sealing fuel tanks used, and the type of metals, plastics, and sealant used on military aircraft. Several specialized aircraft like the SR-71 and U-2 use different fuels than JP-8, but are developed from the same base stock. Fuels research is always ongoing. The newest fuel being brought into production is JP-8+100. Dubbed JP-8+100 because the additive package can increase the thermal stability of military fuel by 100 degrees Fahrenheit, the improved fuel helps prevent gums and deposits that can foul fuel lines. Military engines are also designed with different performance characteristics than commercial aircraft. Military aircraft and engines also tend to be older and less efficient than commercial aircraft and produce more emissions. Engines are optimized for fuel consumption and power rates at a particular cruising altitude. At take-off, the engines are usually very inefficient and produce more emissions than when at the optimal cruising altitude. Older military aircraft like the B-52 and C-130 can leave a black smoke exhaust even at cruising altitude, while aircraft like the KC-135R with new engines produce an invisible exhaust plume. Typical pictures of aircraft exhaust emission are shown below. The question this thread will address is, Is it possible that the particulates removed by the +100 component of JP-8+100 or that the jet fuel itself produces nuclei which result in the phenomenon popularly known as chemtrails?
[Edited 5 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-12-2001] 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 07-22-2001 11:54 AM
According to Thermit, the highly persistent contrails he saw probably couldn't be explained by the use of JP-8+100. Those trails seemed to break up into segments. Presumably the JP-8+100 is being burned continuously by the engines. The underlining is mine. quote:
Posted 07-21-2001 01:44 PM LTC8K6, yes, I realize that there is sometimes quite a bit of fuss over normal traffic when it leaves longer trails. It seems as if you are willing to acknowledge that there is some differentiating factor that causes military flights to produce trails longer than commercial/passenger do. That is certainly what I've seen, over and over and over again.But what I'm trying to convey is that these strips from the unidentified (military) planes behave differently than strips from identified planes. For example, I have never seen a strip from an indentified plane remain for hours, instead there is a tendency to sublimate and disappear quickly. On the other hand strips from unidentified planes will appear on days when the regular traffic isn't leaving them at all. Also, these same strips have a tendency to persist and spread. Even though they start with very blunt edges, after a couple of hours, they have spread and feathered out. (The photo below from Rense is a good example.) If you start with an initial hypothesis that this is caused by air pockets and subsequent feathering is result of the mixing of the surrounding air, it seems as though this mixing would have already blended the supposed pockets thus eliminating the possibility of having very blunt initial edges in the first place. Even the longest real contails I ever saw and verified using Flight Explorer never had these attributes which seem to be the exclusive domain of the trail strips from unidentified flights, on the other hand besides the trail strips the unidentified traffic also produced contrails that were very consistent with the contrails from identified traffic. So it really looks like there is a common factor between the identified and the unidentified flights they both have consistent contrails in a given time period, but the unidentified flights may have the additional highly persistent trail segment that exhibits several factors that differentiate it from the contrails: 1. Tendency to persist 2. Never horizon to horizon (as contrails are sometimes), but relatively short. 3. Bluntness of start and stop Interestingly these factors are consistent with what I would expect to be the behavior of a released liquid material. If there was a controlled sprayed material being released it would most likely have blunt edges and would contain so much more additional moisture than a contrail by itself that it would definately have a much longer duration than a contrail.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-22-2001] 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 07-22-2001 11:58 AM
Here is an example, photographed by Thermit, of one of these long lasting strip contrails.
 According to Thermit, after persisting for hours, these trails typically feather out in the following manner (the photo itself comes from Rense's site):
[Edited 4 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-22-2001] 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 12:54 PM
For people who work with *unburned* JP-8 on the ground, this fuel, like gasoline, is considered a toxic substance. This was just published: http://www.af.mil/news/n20010813_1108.shtml quote:
Jet fuel study prompts call for protective gear upgrade by Chief Master Sgt. Gary Emery Air Force Print News 08/13/01 - SAN ANTONIO -- Preliminary results of a health study of exposure to JP-8 jet fuel have led the Air Force Surgeon General to recommend the use of more effective protective equipment for workers who come in contact with the fuel.People were coming forward with health complaints after being exposed to JP-8, so the Surgeon General started to investigate worker's concerns, said Lt. Col. (Dr.) Thomas Neal, chief consultant for occupational medicine at the Air Force Surgeon General's office. Reported symptoms included dizziness, lightheadedness, skin irritation and objectionable taste and odor, records show. The Department of Defense completed a 20-year phased changeover from gasoline-based JP-4 to the safer and more versatile kerosene-based JP-8 in 1996. Information for the study, which compares health data from 169 fuel cell maintenance volunteers with 160 Air Force people who have no contact with JP-8, was gathered over an 18-month period at six stateside bases, Neal said. Scientists and researchers from several major universities are participating in the $3.6 million study, which is being funded by the Air Force and other government agencies, he said. Study results so far indicate no long-term health hazards from JP-8 exposure, Neal said. For instance, medical records show no significant difference in reported ailments between the fuels workers and the control group. But, Neal said, the study was specifically looking for acute, short-term health effects in a very narrowly defined group of workers -- fuel cell maintainers. Nevertheless, because short-term JP-8 exposure has unpleasant and uncomfortable side effects, the Air Force is ready to move ahead to the next step --investigating more effective protective clothing and reviewing procedures to ensure maximum personal protection for fuels workers, Neal said. "For many years, people exposed to solvents -- such as painters working in enclosed places -- have experienced similar symptoms to those we're seeing in people who enter JP-8 fuel tanks to perform maintenance," Neal said. "But that doesn't mean we're not concerned, we need to be proactive in protecting our people. "That's not to say we haven't done so already. We have protective equipment and technical orders in place, but we're taking the initiative to explore recent advances in equipment that may provide greater protection," he said. "Our interest is our people," Neal said. "We want to do everything possible to keep them healthy and safe."
However, please remember that (unless chemplanes are actually spraying us with unburned JP-8) the issues we are dealing with on this thread involve products of combustion.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-14-2001] 
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chemtrailsorg
Chemtrails.org Admin
Austin,TX,US 122 posts, May 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 05:16 PM
This is what I could find in an extensive patent search at all the major world patent archives. Reading these will give you a good level of understanding of what type of chemical elements are in the +100 fuel additives. The various patents are not all from the same company.JP-8 fuel additive patent 1 JP-8 fuel additive patent 2 JP-8 fuel additive patent 3 JP-8 fuel additive patent 4 I am exausted at just reading the first 2 patents and following links to some of the patents sighted in the applications.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by chemtrailsorg on 08-14-2001]

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toxdoc
New Member
Williamstown, KY,USA 23 posts, Jan 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 06:50 PM
Miss 3 and Mr Chemtrails.org: The photo above (and a really lousy digital photo I might add but, it's not your fault) is of a portion of the injector within the combustion chamber of the engine. I usually don't allow immages to load because of loading time. I thought the images that were originally reffered to were of the vanes at the aft portion of an F16 engine that I have also seen. Regardless, I'm really missing the point that is being made here. The +100 additive package prevents thermal breakdown of fuel and prevents internal deposition of unburned materials on high temperature internal components (as seen in the picture). As an added benefit, it cleans injectors. Fuel is sprayed from these injectors in a fine, high pressure mist. Because of this it is not surprizing that an additive with a "detergent" effect would succeed in eventually washing away any soot/ash. Likewise, the increased thermal stability of the fuel would prevent formation of non-combustible products and thus prevent any further soot or ash formation. Because of this one would expect more complete combustion and therefor less deposition of ash, soot and such out the aft end. Since the SOx component of fuel is due to the presence of sulfur containing materials in the original crude, I still don't follow why you would expect more SOx in the exhaust. Unless you are implying that since a "dirtier" engine emits more unburned fuel it would emit fewer SOx molecules since they were not burned. Is that it?
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 07:17 PM
Another try: let's assume that JP-8 produces X amount of soot, all of which is deposited on various engine components. Let's assume that JP-8+100 produces X-Y amount of soot, all of which gets blown out into the jet exhaust. If these assumptions hold (and I don't know if they do), even though JP-8+100 is cleaner-burning than JP-8, it causes a net increase in the amount of soot released into the atmosphere.As far as the question about increased SOx, Michael could you please explain that further? Is one of the fuel additives sulfur-containing? 
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toxdoc
New Member
Williamstown, KY,USA 23 posts, Jan 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 07:42 PM
The fuel itself in engine components is actually the coolant for many parts. Because of this it is often exposed to higher temperatures before it enters the injectors in the combuster. Soot-ash deposition results from the incomplete combustion of fuel. Much of this results from increases in products within the fuel formed due to high temperatures. Instead of readily combustible 2-19 carbon hydrocarbons you have formed larger molecules that do not burn well. These are deposited within the combustion area and spew out the back. The +100 additive by decreasing the formation of these larger hydrocarbons (because it makes the fuel more resistent to forming them) prevents the formation of these poorly combustible hydrocarbons. Because they are not formed in the fuel itself, they will not result from combustion. So, since they do not form they cannot deposit internally nor can they exit from the exhaust.
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 08:39 PM
Am I reading this correctly? Engines burning JP-8+100 do not produce soot? I'm impressed!
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toxdoc
New Member
Williamstown, KY,USA 23 posts, Jan 2001
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posted 08-14-2001 08:49 PM
Well at least less of it.
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chemtrailsorg
Chemtrails.org Admin
Austin,TX,US 122 posts, May 2001
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posted 08-15-2001 12:48 AM
I am still waiting to hear back from the scientists that were working on the fuels thermal breakdown trials and from some who have done the needed chemistry to answer my questions. If anyone wishes to contract these folks directly I will provide names emails and what ever other data I have on them to those who request this by email.I don't want these folks harrassed in any way so I am not going to publish this information here. Any requests for information from them should be as scientific and direct to the point as possible IMHO. Back to the subject at hand. I am studing the components that go into the fuel additives and there is a lot of them. It is going to take some time to sort out but the experts already have this information I am certain but are not, or at least have not given it to me yet. The thermal break down components are more important then what is in the fuel before it is burned for my purpose so we shall see. Sorry I can not ad more to the thread tonight but after reading all these patents today and several more for another unrelated research project I am doing for my company my brain is pretty overworked. More tomorrow after I have rested some. 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-06-2001 07:56 AM
Cut and paste time again. This is from The Neutral Zone, "The recent pictures...". Toxdoc: quote:
Kerosene based jet fuels have very low sulfur content compared to other fuels. Always less than 1% by weight and usually in the range of 0.04-0.06%. They are made from the upper 10% fraction of low sulfur crude to start with and then more is removed during the hydrogenation process. As far as H2O produced the average jet engine efficiency gives you 1.15 kg H2O/kg fuel. So, at crusing altitude a 747 produces about 28 kg H2O/km or 44.8 kg/mile. That's quite a bit of water, especially considering it's rapidly expanding, too. That's why the megasprayer picture shows the hazy clear space behind the wing (hot, hot compressed vapor) and then the spreading and freezing makes the contrail. And you guys are right. A fuel dump or a liquid spray should be visible the second it's released. The Blue Angels/Thunderbirds (and other jet flying demo teams) have little injectors right on the edge of the afterburner portion of their engines. They spray tiny amounts of light oil or fuel in the post combustion stream and make tons of smoke that way. But, the actual amount used in a 30 min show is very small, just a few liters.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-06-2001 07:59 AM
theseeker: quote:
I hope I'm not laboring the point...but some more on sulfur content in fuel inrelation to contrail production.... http://cloud1.arc.nasa.gov/success/daily_summary/Highlights/960427.hil.html http://cloud1.arc.nasa.gov/success/success.eom.html#tocIIGiii T-39 Highlights from SUCCESS; Bruce Anderson - LaRC Observations of aerosol/trace gas emissions and wake/plume dynamics were obtained from the T-39 on 14 separate flights during the SUCCESS mission. On 10 of the flights, data were recorded within the wake of the NASA DC-8 or B757 aircraft at separation distances ranging from < 50 m to > 10 km and at altitudes ranging from the surface to near 13 km. Two of the flights were devoted to sampling the B757 exhaust as it alternately burned fuel of high (~700 ppm) and low (< 20 ppm) sulfur content. Important new information gathered in these flights include:- Modern aircraft engines appear to generate 1-5 x 1015 >20 nm diameter soot particles per Kg fuel burned at cruise altitudes. This emission index (EI) may be slightly pressure/temperature dependent as most altitude profiles suggest values increase a factor of 2 between the surface and 12 km. -Aircraft, when burning nominal sulfur level Jet A fuel, generate an aerosol fraction volatile at < 290ĄC which is 10-20 times more abundant than the soot component. These aerosols typically are < 20 nm in size and exhibit an EI which increases somewhat with decreasing atmospheric pressure/ temperature. They are present within 50 m (plume age of 0.25 seconds) behind the source aircraft engine and appear to grow in size with age and in high humidity/contrail producing situations. Their numbers are significantly reduced in heavy contrail cases and by decreasing the level of fuel sulfur, suggesting they are both soluble and most probably composed of sulfuric acid or sulfate. ATMOSPHERIC CHEMISTRY Chemical Ionization Mass Spectrometer; John Ballenthin - Air Force Phillips Lab
On May 3rd and 4th the T-39 participated in an aircraft chase of the B-757 under conditions where the B-757 was burning low sulfur fuel in one engine and high sulfur fuel in the other. The concentrations of the target exhaust products, NO2, HNO2, HNO3, SO2 and H2SO4 were measured within the individual plumes and near field wakes at separation distances ranging from 0.1 km to 10 km. The signature of the exhaust gases in the mass spectrum were clearly discernible with either fuel relative to the ambient concentrations of the measured species. Sampling of the low sulfur exhaust trail indicated a substantial reduction (~x5) in the observable gas phase SO2 and H2SO4 relative to that found in the high sulfur exhaust trail under identical sampling conditions. The concentrations of the NOy species were found to be essentially invariant with respect to fuel sulfur content. And this is interesting... Cloudscope; John Hallett - Desert Research Institute Cloudscope shows the presence of a few particles in contrails which evaporate to leave a soot-like residue. Shows the presence of particles at low temperatures <-65C which evaporate more slowly as the size becomes smaller suggesting the presence of a component other than ice with a lower vapor pressure. There is some evidence of particle conversion to a liquid phase as they evaporate suggesting the presence of a soluble component which is reluctant to evaporate. T/S

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-06-2001 08:21 AM
Me: quote:
So is it possible that the occasional batch of jet fuel has a high sulfur content? Or that an increased amount of high-altitude flying has significantly increased sulfuric acid in the atmosphere? This might explain the oily rings around the sun and moon, and the chemdome phenomenon.I found this article interesting. It's a PDF, unfortunately. http://eos913c.gsfc.nasa.gov/gcss_wg2/projects/ARM94/cold_cirrus.pdf Corona-Producing Ice Clouds: A Case Study of a Cold Midlatitude Cirrus Layer The homogeneous freezing of sulfuric acid droplets of stratospheric origin is assumed to be the dominant ice particle nucleation mode acting in corona-producing cirrus clouds. It is speculated that this process results in a previously unrecognized mode of acid-contaminated ice particle growth, and that such small-particle "cold" cirrus clouds are potentially a radiatively distinct type of cloud. It was only recently established, unambiguously, that cirrus clouds composed of nonspherical ice crystals could generate multiple-ring colored corona displays....It was inferred that these atypical midlatitude cirrus cloud microphysical conditions were the result of the formation of some characteristic type of ice crystal homogeneously nucleated from stratospheric sulfuric acid droplets

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nilkin67
Senior Member

Shoemakersville, Pa USA 46 posts, Dec 2001
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posted 01-02-2002 12:45 PM
Hello!The picture of B-52's taking off. I would like to just add a bit of information that wasn't included. On take off the 52's and 135'2 used water injection to add thrust. The 135's with the new 'R model engines do not have it anymore. And the 'H model B-52 doesn't either. But the water injection added alot to the black soot trails and made them impressively louder. Just my 2 cents! Chip ------------------ The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote. 
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2002 06:03 PM
This topic at Carnicoms board print out to 8 pages http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=4979.topic Note that the Fallon Nevada "Childhood Leukemia Cluster" (blaimed on JP 8) has now risen to fifteen as of 12-28-01 as reported by Associated Press's Brendan Riley, a three year old boy just became victim #15 near the NAVY base in the desert farming town
[Edited 1 times, lastly by mark sky on 01-05-2002] 
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2002 06:07 PM
you can find the "JP 8 Manuscripts of Dr. Mark Witten here http://www.jp8.org/Witten_JP8.htm Does anyone have more info on "substance P"? i cant find much except the military~doctors are working on it as a "cure" for JP8 induced damage
[Edited 1 times, lastly by mark sky on 01-05-2002] 
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2002 06:21 PM
from NewScientist Magazine http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9999876Recent research has also shown that it is extremely toxic to the immune system. Mark Witten, a toxicologist at the University of Arizona, Tucson, whose work is funded by the US Air Force, was astounded by what JP-8 does to mice that inhale it. "It's just wrecking their immune systems," he says. "I've never seen a chemical that can so completely wipe out an animal's defences." Part of the problem with JP-8 is that it doesn't readily evaporate, so it's more likely to soak into the skin and lungs. What's more, there's some evidence that the performance-enhancing additives in the fuel disrupt the molecular arrangement of the outermost layer of skin, poking holes in the body's main barrier against alien chemicals. Even after brief exposure, the number of immune T cells in mice plummet and their thymus (where immune cells mature) shrinks, while B cells proliferate. So severe and sustained are the effects that Witten and his colleague David Harris, also at the University of Arizona, worry that repeated exposure could increase the risk of autoimmune diseases and cancer, especially in the presence of other risk factors such as pesticides.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by mark sky on 01-05-2002]

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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2002 08:27 PM
minutes from the eleventh fuels career field enhancement conference http://www.il.hq.af.mil/ils/supply/fuels/fcfec/fcfecmin.html JP-8+100 UpdateMr. Fishburn provided an update on JP8+100 implementation plan. Stated the implementation was proceeding as scheduled. Briefly explained the composition of JP8+100 and why we use it (new aircraft coming on line and significant reduction in maintenance cost). Gave an overview of the results of the data obtained thus far during the conversion. Colonel Johnson closed the briefing by stating it remains undetermined if the AF will convert the entire fleet (currently, only fighters and trainers) to JP8+100. Thus the capability to handle two types of JP-8 must be maintained by the bases. This is not the optimum way for the fuel community to conduct business but stressed it is the optimum way for the Air Force to conduct business.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by mark sky on 01-05-2002]

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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-05-2002 08:36 PM
Transition Underway for Modified Stadis 450 in Aviation Fuels http://www.octel-petadd.com/97-01.htm (this one is currently off line) these continue to come up New JP8 fuel additive to improve jet performance http://www.acc.af.mil/news/sep/970168.html Transition Underway for Modified Stadis 450 in Aviation Fuels http://www.agu.org/pubs/abs/jd/1999JD900109/1999JD900109.html an other link gone bad~ JP 8+100 http://www.dfsc.dia.mil/main/fuelline/fall98/JP8.htm Welcome to the Bulk Fuels Homepage (Chevron ~ rockey feller~ www.dfsc.dla.mil/main/b/b.htm was redirected to http://www.desc.dla.mil/default.asp seems these "old" (1998) links are a changen
[Edited 5 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 01-05-2002] 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 01-05-2002 10:30 PM
Thanks for your comments, mark sky and Chip. (No personal criticism is permitted in this forum, so I deleted it from the previous post--sorry.) Newbies, please check out the references. They suggest that one of the reasons for chemtrails and their associated health effects may be the unique fuel which is burned by military aircraft. I think toxdoc actually does work on the health effects of JP-8+100. Toxdoc, if you have any references on the health effects of JP-8, could you please add them here?
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-06-2002 02:33 PM
3T3L1, if you think that my saying "hi nilkin" is offensive enough to delete, then perhaps you should also take a look at this "The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."By the way 3T3L1 I really like both of your Avitars, i almost chose the spiral one myself~ Here is one more link on the "substance P" "Protein Identified that Protects Against Toxicity of Jet Fuel Aerosol http://www.afrl.af.mil/successstories/1998/emerg_tech/et5.pdf (PS ~just fixed link so it works) Biological Abnormalities in Fibromyalgia Syndrome http://www.fmaware.com/fminfo/research/bioabinfm.htm (relates elevated substance P level in fibromyalgia)
[Edited 2 times, lastly by mark sky on 01-06-2002] 
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-06-2002 02:44 PM
In aircraft and automobile recipricating internal combustion engines WATER INJECTION leads to both increased power and CLEANER BURNING (less emmissions). Perhaps jet engines work in opposite fashion causeing more emmissions?
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 01-06-2002 03:15 PM
mark, the reason I deleted it was that there were some mildly derogatory comments next to hi nilkin. Yeah, I considered deleting the pebbles line, but then I'd have to delete the chemtrail avatars just to keep things even, so I decided to let it ride. Regarding my avatar, the new one is actual 3T3-L1 cells in culture. It reminds me of my days in the lab, so I like it. I think the fractal one is now available to the highest bidder  Back to the topic. I'm glad you're bringing up the material on possibly-toxic side effects of JP-8. I don't subscribe to the one-molecule-produces-disease theory. On the other hand, I was told over and over in the lab that breathing benzene fumes was no particular problem. So it seems like a good idea to check out whether JP-8 burned (or dumped) in large quantities at 40,000 feet can have an effect on a significant number of people on the ground. 
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mark sky
~just_ice_ob~server~

south coast of oregon 3146 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 01-06-2002 03:58 PM
Yeah 3T3-L1, no problemo~ i dont remember being slightly derougitory~ but in these new world oders where "upsetting the national mindset" is now a crime punishable by death (after innoculation of course) us pebbles are left with even less than rocks to throw at the ~ oh how should i put this? "good guys"? But on to your point of the "one molecule" deal~ i would have to agree that if one atom of plutonium, or molecule of benzene was all it took~ then we are all dead~ and since we arent then it follows that these tests they did with lots of atoms or molecules causeing death~ are impossible to bring down to the one molecule causes death stage~ so i have to agree with you on that But to hang out with benzene vapors in the lab, still is not good for your health! I have had a bit of personal communication lately about the old EDB in the JP8 thing While no one is saying what IS in the JP8, the PTB are saying EDB is not in there. BUT there are similar molecules to EDB, that have similar effects~ noteably the effect of skin absorbtion and DNA damage, and the ability to inject foriegn DNA. Many of the halogenated hydrocarbons can do this Where can we find the true "additives" in the "package" of JP8?
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