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  COLLOIDAL SILVER THE ANTIDOTE?

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Topic:   COLLOIDAL SILVER THE ANTIDOTE?

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SKYWATCHER
Senior Member

SOUTHEASTERN,MA,UKA
37 posts, Oct 2000

posted 10-11-2000 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SKYWATCHER     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I HAVE BEEN OUT OBSERVING AND DOCUMENTING THE CHEMTRAILS FOR 2 YR.S NOW AND HAVE NOT BECOME ILL.I REGULARLY USE COLLOIDAL SILVER OBTAINED AT HEALTH FOOD STORES LIKE GNC.SILVER HAS BEEN KNOWN TO HAVE ANTIBACTERIAL AND VIRAL PROPERTIES SINCE ANCIENT TIMES.IT'S NATURES PERFECT ANTIBIOTIC.THIS IS THE REASON SILVER NITRATE IS INTRODUCED INTO NEWBORN BABIES EYES AFTER BIRTH [TO PREVENT INFECTION] AND THE REASON IT WAS USED TO TREAT WOUNDS DURING WWI BEFORE THE ADVENT ANTIBIOTICS.IN THE DAYS OF OLD SILVERWARE WAS JUST THAT-SILVER.VIRUS AND BACTERIA CANNOT SURVIVE IN ITS PRESENCE. ENGLISH ROYALTY WAS WELL AWARE OF THIS AND EVEN STORED FOODSTUFFS IN SILVER CONTAINERS.THE REASON THEY WERE CALLED BLUEBLOODS WAS BECAUSE THEIR SKIN ACTUALLY HAD A BLUISH TINGE TO IT DUE TO THE IMMENSE INGESTION OF SILVER THRUOUT THEIR LIVES[A HARMLESS SIDE EFFECT OF VAST AMOUNTS OF SILVER PARTICLES ACCUMULATED IN THE TISSUES]. EVEN OUR GRANDPARENTS KNEW OF ITS VALUE AS THEY WOULD DROP A SILVER DOLLAR IN CONTAINERS OF MILK TO PREVENT SPOILAGE BEFORE THE ADVENT OF REFRIGERATION.OF COURSE PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES DON'T WANT THIS INFORMATION WIDESPREAD AS YOU CAN IMAGINE WHY.BUT IT IS THE TRUTH AND I HOPE LIVESCAN BE SAVED BY THE DISSEMINATION OF THIS INFORMATION.

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 11-11-2000 02:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Skylooker, this quackery seems to follow chemtrail believers like dust behind "pigpen".

Ask Rosemary about "colloidal silver". http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db=m&form=6&dopt=r&uid=8632503
http://www.hcrc.org/contrib/gorski/tcp97-03.html#colloidal
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00971.html
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=21&PART=310&SECTION=548&YEAR=2000&YEAR=2000&TYPE=TEXT

For the record, skywatcher and anybody else are welcome to choose their poison and use it to reckless abandon as much as they like, it's OK with me.

Just don't expect me to remain silent when I see such quackery.

Jay Reynolds

209.142.143.96 IP: 209.142.143.96

Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2691 posts, Jul 2000

posted 11-30-2000 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nobody would expect Jay Reynolds to remain quiet no matter what the occasion.

Rosemary's problem started a long long time ago, 1956'ish...who knows what she took, it probably wasn't even colloidal silver, it just contained silver. Tsk, Tsk...Fear is a terrible thing...

I have taken CS. I can't really say that it has helped me, but it certainly didn't hurt me, make my eyes darken or my skin turn grey. After researching this some time ago, I found hundreds of testimonials in favor of CS and only the stale old story about Rosemary on the opposing side. One note CS is very effective at killing bacteria, including the helpful flora in our digestive systems, so users should be sure to augment their diet with acidopholus supplements, kefir or yogurt.

What Do Health Professionals Say About Silver and Colloidal Silver?

"What we have actually done was rediscover the fact that silver kills bacteria, which had been known for centuries… when antibiotics were discovered, clinical uses for silver as an antibiotic were discarded" concludes Dr. Robert O. Becker, M.D. Extensive research into the curative properties of silver has been conducted for many years at the Upstate Medical Center, Syracuse University, Syracuse, N.Y. under the direction of above mentioned Dr. Becker. The experiments conclude that silver works on a wide range of bacteria, without any known side-effects or damage to the cells of the body. Silver was doing something more than killing disease-causing organisms. It was also causing major growth stimulation of injured tissues. Dr. Becker concludes that the presence of the silver ion may help to regenerate tissue, eliminate old or cancerous cell, and any other diseased or abnormal condition.

Dr. Henry Crooks (Use of Colloids in Health-Disease) found that silver in the colloidal state is highly germicidal, quite harmless to humans and absolutely non-toxic. From his bacteriological experiments with silver he concluded, "I know of no microbe that is not killed in laboratory experiments in six minutes."

Dr. Bjorn Nordenstrom, of the Larolinska Institute, Sweden, has successfully used silver as a component in his cancer treatments for many years.

Dr. Leonard Keene Hirschberg, A. M., M. D. (John Hopkins) states, "Speaking generally, the colloidal metals are especially remarkable for their beneficial action in infective states."

Dr. Richard L. Davies, executive director of the Silver Institute, which monitors silver technology in 37 countries, reports: "In four years we've described 87 important new medical uses for silver. We're just beginning to see to what extent silver can relieve suffering."


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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2691 posts, Jul 2000

posted 11-30-2000 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh yeah, one more thing...the pharmaceutical companies hate CS (and other natural remedies) because they can't patent it. As per typical, they prefer to take a natural healing substance, create an unnatural synthetic version with more side-effects that has never occurred in nature before and patent that. Moral issues aside, who could blame them, they are in business to make money, not heal.

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djembemon
bum-biddy-bum goes the drum

Atlanta, GA USA
89 posts, Dec 2000

posted 05-01-2001 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for djembemon   Visit djembemon's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why am I singularly unsurprised to see none other than Jay Reynolds himself bad-mouthing one of the world's oldest, most effective anti-microbial agents (colloidal silver)?

-- because even though this information is currently supressed, CS is still widely available?
-- because high quality CS can be manufactured at home for mere pennies per gallon?
-- because CS has been shown to be completely effective against virtually ALL viral and bacterial strains exposed to it?
-- or because Jay knows that microbially introduced genetic "therapy" is one of the big secret lessons which the NWO doesn't want any of us to be even mildly aware of?

Such a twisted mind to be placed in the use of disservice to humanity.

Meanwhile (contaminated silver products notwithstanding), CS useage and awareness continues to rise among the "masses"...

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-01-2001 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like this may be more effective than "Texas Revenge"?

I've come across some Codex information, posted in "Who are TPTB", but I've only touched on it. Seems to be attempts by TPTB to take away any natural remedies they can so we'll all be suckered into using some of the garbage the phamacuetical cartel pushes on us!

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-02-2001 09:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone know if CS helps intense, deep, "long-bone" pain?? It's not Arthritis with me, as it's not joint pain, more the long-bones or more specifically, my entire Skeletal Systems hurts. The pain is so bad, it disrupts sleep, which worsens the problem even more! The pain is really quite severe, it feels like it's in my bone marrow even. Any comments would be appreciated...It is hard to get through any particular day...Blessings, Joanne

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-03-2001 02:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delphi,

Have you tried websites related to Gulf War Syndrome? Or just enter keywords about Colloidal Silver, your symptoms etc. in some search engines to see what you can find.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by defender on 05-03-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-03-2001 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delphi -

Have you gone over to Carnicom's and asked Wise Woman for help? She doesn't give out her e-mail address, but you can e-mail Clifford and he will forward your request to her.

I am not into herbal remedies, et cetera, but Wise seems to know what she is doing in that realm.

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-03-2001 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3T3L1, Thank you about the tip in reference to "Wisewoman"...I haven't been to Carnicom site in long time...gonna definately check that out! Blessings, Joanne Also, Defender, I have looked at the GWI sites and read of Dr. Garth Nicolsen and wife and Joyce Riley and noticed the main help seems to be Doxycycline, which I plan to get...probably Vetinary kind, as all I have for medical is Air-force and those Docs, you can't even mention Mycoplasma or GWI...Thanx for your input as I do appreciate it!! Some days are really bad!! Painwise. The research I did showed up creepy Overlapping disorders such as MS, GWI, Fibromyalgia, CFS, and MCS...so I guess I better get to it as if Doxy. dosen't help, than can check out the rest. Blessings, Joanne

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penumbra
quarky


North Carolina
668 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-04-2001 09:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for penumbra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delphi:
Please read the thread about minerals. I think that it might help you. I know that CS is good as an antibacterial, antiviral, etc., and I personally take Olive Leaf Extract for the same reason. (when I feel like I'm fighting off the BUG.) However, I believe that a lot of the chronic pain that people are having (fibromyalgia, CFS, etc.) is a direct result of heavy metal poisoning. I will try to get some more of the info that I've been reading up soon!

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-04-2001 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
penumbra,Thank you so much for your input and I will be keeping an "eye open" for any further info you find. I really appreciate it and am grateful and will try the olive extract also. I think you are so right about the aches being from the ct ingredients that are toxic and poisonous! Thanx again! Blessings, Joanne

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X
New Member


14 posts, May 2001

posted 05-09-2001 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for X     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I take CS at 500ppm

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2691 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-09-2001 11:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
X, can you say that you can tell the difference when you take CS versus not taking it?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 05-09-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-09-2001 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband is a physician, so I seldom use homeopathic remedies. Does anybody know if gray skin really happens with long-term use of colloidal silver? This is a picture from Jay Reynold's post, above.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 05-09-2001]

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2691 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-09-2001 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This problem with Rosemary occured back in the 1950s and she wasn't even taking CS. She was taking something else that had silver in it. This is the only negative thing that the drug companies have to use to scare people away from this natural rememdy.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-09-2001 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since it came from Jay (whom I only know from all of y'all's comments) I figured there might another explanation. Thanks, Thermit.

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looookinup
New Member

Chapel Hill, NC usa
17 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-19-2001 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for looookinup     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to try CS (it is GREAT!) here is a wonderfully inexpensive, easy new method!

(I use a mail-order triple 9v battery generator, 14 oz. distilled water@ 130 degrees with 1 tsp CS put in, but I just added a fish-tank pump. The wires stay cleaner longer, and the resulting solution is pale yellow/clear with a slight 'metallic' taste. It clears up abrasions, styes, hangnails very quickly, and we take it internally only if fighting illness at the first symptoms, not on a regular basis.)

This came to me via Dr Jon's email list. His method checks out at the Yahoo CS Board too. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/colloidalsilver?s
(I have also posted it at Clifford Carnicom's board.)
-------------------------------------------
Here is the 'newest' method for low voltage plug-in generation, as written by Dr. Jon
Brooks, M.D. (and edited for brevity):

MD'S VERY INEXPENSIVE HOME-MADE COLLOIDAL GENERATOR:

<gallon! Read on seekers of wisdom . . . your resident mastermind genius (Dr.Jon Brooks MD) discovered a process . . . totally by accident!

SOME BACKGROUND

Several months ago I told wrote of a deceased mad scientist and his "Frankenstein" machine which made colloidal silver utilizing over a million volts of electricity. We had high hopes that perhaps the key had been discovered . . . that is, producing particles in the 10-15 nanometer range. The theory was that particles of this size may effectively deal with a virus . . . which can be 1,000 times smaller than a bacterium. We had a number of
commercial CS products analyzed and none even came close . . . being mostly in the 40-300 nanometer range.

We funded in vitro (in a dish) and in vivo (in an animal) studies done by our colleagues in The Dominican Republic. In the in vitro study this CS worked better than conventional prescription antibiotics. It killed the six
common pathogens easily while none of the five antibiotics killed all of them. We were thrilled. However, the mouse study, involving melanoma (fatal skin cancer), was, at best, inconclusive. One potentially bright spot was
that the five mice receiving topical and oral CS lived almost twice as long as the control group which received no treatment. In addition to the topical and oral treatment, we injected some CS directly into the tumours of three
mice daily. Two of these fellows are still alive but the prognosis is not good.

"EVEN BLIND PIGS FIND ACORNS OCCASIONALLY (THIS OLD WALRUS GOT LUCKY)

I just love to experiment. One day, just for fun, I hooked up a little 6 volt DC power supply, the same ('plug-in-the-socket' unit) as one uses to power small electronics. (Radio Shack has 300 ma and 800 ma. The maximum current our process uses is 1/2 ma, so either will do just fine.)
(One can also wire four 1.5 volt flashlight batteries in series instead of the transformer. They will last a long time.)

I hooked it to two .9999 pure silver coins and
filled a glass with some distilled water from Walmart (.69/gallon). I wanted to measure current so placed a GE $9.95 volt/ohm/millimeter (also from Walmart) in series with one lead. Marsha had just bought a little thing which produces bubbles in her goldfish fish tank. I figured oxygenating the water wouldn't hurt. Besides, the bubbles looked cute.

Conventional wisdom suggests that one needs at least 20 milliamperes (ma) to produce the electrolysis needed to make CS. It looked grim for my experiment for the beginning current was 1/10 of a milliampere of 100 microamps. Four hours later the current had increased to 450 microamperes . . . something was happening. The solution was crystal clear. "Probably a waste of time.", I thought . . . until I examined the solution with a little laser pen, available from most hardware stores for about $5.00.

WOW! A clear Tyndall effect, named after a Scottish scientist who discovered that shining a bright light through a solution would will reveal a beam . . . if there are any reflective particles there. In this case, they could only be silver. (Shining the laser before the electrolysis revealed no beam at
all)

I checked the conductivity with a $40.00 Hanna digital meter. From a beginning 2.1 micro-seimans it was now 13.5. Marketers claim this means parts per million of silver particles . . . which is total rubbish. Drop a silver coin in distilled water. The micro-seimans will not change. However, the Hanna is displaying the relative amount of silver ions . . . which are
.23 nanometers in size, a bit smaller than a silver atom because it is missing one electron.

I tasted the solution. A slight metallic taste. Marsha watered some herb seeds which had begun to sprout, but looked droopy. The next day they were erect. Hmmmmmmm . . . maybe we are on to something. I applied some to a
nasty cut on my arm. It healed much faster than expected.

Marsha has an acne problem. Voila! It seemed to dry them up in a few days.

We place a saucer of plain tap water side by side with one containing this CS. The cats were unanimous......CS was preferred.

I tried it as an underarm deodorant as I know that off-the-shelf stuff is dangerous. After playing some hard tennis I hugged Marsha.
Surprised, she observed, "You don't stink, Jon!".

WAS IT REAL OR OUR IMAGINATION?

I decided to blow some more money. I sent a sample to the Colloidal Science Laboratory in Westampton, New Jersey for analysis on their Malvern Zetasizer 300DHS, a $70,000.00 machine utilizing atomic Photon Correlation
Spectroscopy. They publish a wealth of information on CS and have nothing to
sell. If you want some advanced technical information visit their site.
www.silver-colloids.com

The lab results were far better that expected. The silver particles ranged from 10.2-25.7 nanometers in size . . . far better than any others we had analyzed . . . even the Frankenstein process.

A MILLION DOLLAR METHOD

EVEN DUMMIES CAN MAKE ONE

[This ain't rocket science so pay attention. Don't email for more information. I haven't the time for hand holding!]

1. Buy a 6 volt DC transformer for about 5 clams. Better yet, pick up one at
a flea market for .50.

2. Clip the connector off the end of the wire.

3. Get two alligator clips from Radio Shack for a buck.

4. Carefully separate the two wires. Strip the insulation off for about 1 inch.

5. Connect each lead to the clip.

6. You need two electrodes. Don't waste $15.00 for 1/4 oz. pieces of silver wire. Go to any coin store and buy two Canadian Maple Leafs for about $6.50 ea. Each has 1.2 oz. of .9999 pure silver, enough to make more CS than you
will ever use.

7. Buy a gallon of distilled water for about .70.

8. Buy a tiny fish tank bubbler machine for about 8 bucks. They will have the neoprene or silicone tubing as well. You will need about two feet.

9. Be sure the coin is squeaky clean. Clamp them to opposite sides of an 8 oz. glass of distilled water.

10. Place the tubing to the bottom of the glass.

11. Fill the glass with distilled water ONLY up to the bottom of the clips. One does not want the metal, from the clips, in contact with the water, only the coins.

12. Plug in the little transformer and oxygenation machine.

13. Run for about five hours.

14. Carefully remove the coins. There will be residue on them and you don't want that in the solution. For even more purity, use the neoprene tubing and siphon the solution into a clean glass/or plastic container.

15. Keep the CS out of sunlight in an air tight bottle.

16. Clean the coins thoroughly preparing for the next batch.

Now you have high quality CS in about 5 PPM.

Some scoundrels claim their CS is 100-800 PPM. This is rubbish. At such concentrations the particles would agglomerate forming much larger particles. Basic chemistry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last night I spoke with Frank Key, the scientist who owns the laboratory. He observed, "You have stumbled on to a fine way to make CS." He did state that the
potency would diminish over time and suggested that one make a new batch every fortnight. Considering that costs you nothing it makes sense.

He said the secret was the low voltage and the fish pump. I thought it was due to more oxygen in the water. He stated it was because of the
introduction of carbon dioxide, explaining in chemical terms which were over my head. The fish pump is 100% vital to the process.

If you are too cheap to spring for 8-10 bucks you can sit by the glass and blow into it for 5 hours!

drbrooks@cat007.com
If you haven't read our article on CS, please see: www.cat007.com/silver.htm
The link is the sixth from the top of the menu. >>

Best Wishes!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by looookinup on 05-19-2001]

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KnewEyes
watcher


under those cloud-like things
665 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-22-2001 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KnewEyes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey looookinup,, Thank you for that wonderful find!! Can't wait to "build my own"!

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2691 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-22-2001 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's some more CS info...
http://user.gru.net/hisway4u/hwfupg4.html

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WonderWmn93
TRUST NO ONE!!!


Marysville,WA USA
133 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-23-2001 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WonderWmn93   Visit WonderWmn93's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Thermit

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Fibromaniq
Senior Member


Right behind you Red
41 posts, Feb 2003

posted 04-12-2004 12:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fibromaniq     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Patents -
If a medicine cannot be patented, like Colloidal Silver or Marijuana or herbals, there cannot be a monopoly on the medicine, and therefore profits are wayyy less.

Only things that can be patented are promoted by the pharmaceutical industry, and its partner, the U.S. govt.

So, when you see medicine that is "natural" [and therefore not patentable], it is likely being made illegal, or not available [try finding an enema kit theses days!], or actually being discredited.
The other thing they do is to actually sell and package some un-patentables, and then screw them up bu adding stuff or whatever, so they do not worka nd also they may cause harm, then the pharamaceutical industry will get that on the news, and use it to get it banned.

On the other hand, not everything natural Is safe in the first place, so we are not confused, don't know where to turn, and may just go with the pharmaceuticals to be sure we won't die right away.
That is pure folly, since pills are a leading cause of death, right behind doctors errors, then car crashes - all avoidalbe things!!

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Wolf_Larson
Senior Member


The Sea
417 posts, Aug 2003

posted 04-12-2004 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wolf_Larson   Visit Wolf_Larson's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fibromaniq:

On the other hand, not everything natural Is safe in the first place, so we are not confused, don't know where to turn, and may just go with the pharmaceuticals to be sure we won't die right away.
That is pure folly, since pills are a leading cause of death, right behind doctors errors, then car crashes - all avoidalbe things!!


Pills are a leading cause of death?

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


1074 posts, Nov 2002

posted 04-12-2004 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tried e-mailing Marilyn Monroe about pills being a leading cause of death, but she doesn't answer.

(maybe I'll be in time to warn Custer about those Indians)

How to tell when your CS is about the right size particles for easy ingestion:
Pocket laser
shine laser light through solution

when the beam is slightly scattered, you got it right

note also that even one grain of salt in the water increases electrical conductivity

most homemade CS depends on skin salts from the hand that hooks up the silver to the anode and cathode

Doctors used a silver mesh as a last resort,
when the only choice left had it failed would have been amputation.
When I asked the same doctor about using CS,
he recommended I buy mine from "GNC"
(as I still do)
GNC is in most Super Wal-Marts.

I concur that only .999% silver should be used, although the voltage is a matter of personal belief rather than scientific method.
People tend to repeat what works instead of experimenting.

American Science & Surplus can be found via web 'search'
They sell power supplies, at various voltages.
Direct current at whatever voltage!

The laser method is from someone who has made CS for many years.(btw)

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