posted 02-06-2003 01:47 PM            

January 29, 2003

To all:
As important as it can be to oppose the underhanded and dishonorable, it can be just as important to recognize it while it is happening.
Those who may have followed the sequence of posts under the title "contrail sizes", in the Chemtrails section of Chemtrail Central, may have noticed that it has been removed. It was placed in the Other Trails section of the site. It was explained to me, by the individual using the i.d. "Lulu", that this was done because my posts were "debunker-promoting".
If you examined the posts, you will see that the first ones, by me, were around the concept of relating the physical size of contrails to their duration. Claims were being made that chemtrails were only one phase of the general phenomenon of contrails; that contrails came in a variety of persistences, and that chemtrails were just a particularly long-lived form of contrail. I suggested relating the persistence of a contrail to the distance the jet travels away from the end of it, during that time, so that the time it takes for the end of a contrail to begin to dissipate can be related to the observed length of the trail. Photographs, then, could be used to gauge the duration of contrails, not movies. This could simplfy keeping a record of contrails persistences.
On the basis of this, and the physical appearance of contrails in the sky, in general, most contrails have a persistence of no more than about 5 seconds. Contrails of duration of 10 seconds or more are all but nonexistent. Contrails persisting 20 seconds or more would cover so large an arc in the sky that it would be impossible to compile a photographic record without a significant number of pictures of them in it, but there is none. On the other hand, chemtrails occur with a frequency utterly at odds with the duration of “longer-lived” trails, if any exist! Indeed, the evidence of the photographic record is that legitimate contrails of duration of 20 seconds or more are utterly nonexistent, and that, therefore, chemtrails cannot be just one form of contrail, a form with a particularly long life.
The evidence of my argument is compelling, and certainly something the “debunkers” and their minions would want to cover up. And there is nothing debatable or questionable in my argument. The “debunkers”, however, would have to give the impression that there are faults with my reasoning.
This, PacerLJ35 proceeded to do. Taking issue with the speeds I assigned to jets, PacerLJ35 said I had to “rework my math”. They then went on to reel off air speeds of various companies’ planes. They were all greater than the speeds I used in my argument. PacerLJ35’s reference to “reworking my math”, however, seemed geared toward suggesting that the basis behind my argument was faulty. They also tended to refer to the speeds I mentioned in knots, not mph, which is what I used, yet, in one case, they used the same amounts. For example, when I spoke of 300 to 400 mph, PacerLJ35 “repeated” my reference as “300-400 knots”! A knot is 1.15 mph, so 300 to 400 knots is much more than 300 to 400 mph! Tellingly, PacerLJ35 also referred to a typical cruise speed for the jet they fly is .75 Mach, which they also gave as 430 knots. But that translates out to the speed of sound being 720 mph, which is not the true value either at sea level or 35,000 feet, the usual heights referred to on the forum. Nowhere, though, did PacerLJ35 address the fact that there are no indications of contrials lasting longer than 10 seconds.
I pointed this out, noting that, if the information put into calculations is incorrect, it is not a matter of “reworking the math”, that, essentially, faulting the calculations is to condemn the theory behind the calculation. I also indicated that PacerLJ35’s mentioned speeds made longer lived contrails even more unlikely, since that would require the physical size of the trail to be even longer, and photographs of trails longer than, say, 45º are almost completely absent, and there seem no pictures of contrails longer than 90º! I also took issue with PacerLJ35 framing their references only in knots or Mach, and I suggested that a purpose was to avoid addressing values more immediately obvious to most members of the Chemtrail Central forum. And, addressing PacerLJ35’s mistake on units, since knots are not the same as mph, I said that the 300 to 400 knots that PacerLJ35 was referring to was “something far different” than what I was talking about, which was only 300 to 400 mph.
PacerLJ35 - apparently still responding to the need to cast doubt on me, to avoid the conclusions of my method! - insisted that, if wrong numbers are put into a calculation, it is a matter of the math. “Well, perhaps your methodology may be sound, but your numbers are not, hence incorrect math”, PacerLJ35 asserted, which is patent falsehood! Referring to my reiterating the very numbers they supplied, for various airlines, PacerLJ35 also, apparently sought to discredit me by representing me as suggesting that those speeds were, somehow, proprietary, that each company, supposedly, claimed the right to travel at only certain speeds! In addressing my statement that they invoked the same numbers I used, but ascribed the units of knots to them, which was “far different” than what I was talking about, PacerLJ35 simply responded that, both are measures of speed, therefore, supposedly, 300 to 400 mph and 300 to 400 knots are exactly the same! “It’s all speed”, PacerLJ35 asserted. “Anyhoo”, they added, “even if you bothered to convert your 300-400 MPH into knots, it would equal even slower cruise speeds of 261 and 348 MPH respectively”, which is utterly nonsensical! Converting a speed in one set of units to another set of units, doesn’t change the original speeds! And, with respect to my pointing out that PacerLJ35, essentially, quoted the speed of sound as 720 mph, they shot back: “I never said any aircraft cruises at an airspeed of 720 mph.” But I never said PacerLJ35 said aircraft cruise at 720 mph! I said that PacerLJ35 gave a cruise speed measure, and translated it into Mach, and that implied that the speed of sound was 720mph! It’s very easy to criticize someone if you get to decide what it is you can accuse them of doing! The clumsiness of the “debunkers” in what they choose for “disproof” of chemtrail opponents’ claims only plays up the evident fraud of the “debunkers’ goals! To “discredit” me, PacerLJ35 has to refer to something I didn’t even do! In this post - in what PacerLJ35 seems to see as some kind of a further “discrediting” of my suggested method for determining contrail durations - PacerLJ35 also declared: “Sorry, Julian. You can’t apply a cookie-cutter approach to contrail formation/dissapation[sic], because nature is highly variable. Just the other day, over Tulsa I flew through a very thick puffy contrail that extended for probably over a hundred miles. I didn’t get sick, nor did I see anything unusual about it.” This, apparently, is intended to mirror a reference by PacerLJ35 ,n response to the post “A massive, national state of denial”, also on Chemtrail Central. How their flying through a thick trail demonstrates some kind of “cookie-cutter approach” to my suggested method, though, is not indicated!
I pointed out, in my next post, that incorrect values do not equate to invalid calculations and that I was simply repeating the speeds PacerLJ35 gave, and not suggesting that they were proprietary in any way, that I never even said anything to suggest the speeds are proprietary. I also pointed out that it was the value of 300 to 400 knots which I meant was different from 300 to 400, not the concept, and that I never said that jets cruise at 720 mph! I pointed, also, to PacerLJ35’s statement that “300-400 MPH”, converted into knots, would be “261 and 348 MPH”, and indicated that it was wrong. I also took issue with PacerLJ35’s assertion of flying through a trail without experiencing any ill effects from, presumably, breathing the material of the tail. In the sequence of posts following “A massive, national state of denial”, PacerLJ35 stated definitively that jets don’t use filters to process the air from the outside, that those in the jet breathe it exactly as it enters the engines, from which it is, supposedly, pumped. I insisted that it was inconceivable that jets wouldn’t use filters for the air that enters, since they would have to, at least, keep out dust, insects or noxious chemicals, which can be in abundance in the upper air. I also said that it was utterly unlikely that, even at 35,000 feet, it would be possible to see the entire length of a trail, to discern that it was “over a hundred miles”.
In his next post, PacerLJ35 “defended” his assertion of their being no filters on jets by saying there are “contaminant screens” - which he seemed to want those reading the post to think were not the same as filters! - on the engines, but, then, he stated, flatly, “And no, there aren’t any insects at 35,000 feet.” The apparent lie about “flying through a trail” PacerLJ35 then went on to elaborate upon, by saying that the length was determined by flying alongside the trail, until within some miles of the plane leaving it. In that post, PacerLJ35 came up with the figure “90…nearly 100 miles.” Previously, PacerLJ35 had said the trail extended “over a hundred miles”, now it was less than one hundred! Too, he claimed, first, to fly through the trail, and now he was paralleling it! Finally, in a transparent attempt to defame me, hoping to overturn opposition to chemtrails that way, PacerLJ35 then went on to say: “Go read my statement. I said 261 and 348 KNOTS, not MPH. Apparently YOU misquoted me.”
Looking back to PacerLJ35’s second post under this topic, now, you will see that the line is “261 and 348 knots respectively”! But it did not say that when I quoted PacerLJ35! When I quoted PacerLJ35, their post did, in fact, equate 300 to 400 mph to 261 and 348 mph! Apparently, after placing their insipidity on the forum, PacerLJ35 rewrote their post, then fraudulently accused me of misquoting them! It is evident that PacerLJ35 is an inveterate liar! I pointed this out in my next post. I included a picture of copies I had kept, of the posts on Chemtrail Central, the first with PacerLJ35’s actual erroneous statement, and the second, apparently, edited to remove proof of their mistakes! I also indicated that “contaminant screens” are, indeed, filters; and that, no matter how the atmosphere is, up high, it still can need filtering near the ground, and it is unlikely jets would use a system at low altitudes, then turn it off at high altitudes.
PacerLJ35 responded, acceding that “contaminant screens” are, indeed filters, “but”, they continued, “not the kind of filter needed to eliminate particulate pathogens, chemicals, or other small particles.” With respect to the matter of the evident attempt to ruin my character, PacerLJ35 insisted: ”I did not lie. I edited my post shortly after I posted it after proof reading, and I had discovered the typo. Since I originally meant knots instead of MPH, I corrected my statement. That is not a lie.”
I responded that I did not characterize the editing of PacerLJ35’s post as a lie, but, rather, their editing it, then accusing me of “misquoting them”. In fact, I hadn’t misquoted PacerLJ35, since, they admit, they did write “MPH”, not “knots”. An honest, honorable individual would have acknowledged that, yes, they had made an erroneous statement, and fixed it. But PacerLJ35 tried to act like they had made no error whatsoever, and, instead, tried to paint me as delusional, imagining that they had said what they did not say! And that is the act of a coward and, frankly, a liar! I do not have copies of the Chemtrail Central posts immediately after my pointing out PacerLJ35’s error, to show that they hadn’t repaired it until after it was brought to their attention. If someone wished, they could say that PacerLJ35 did find the error on their own, then changed it; that they hadn’t changed their mistake in response to my pointing it out, then lied to make themselves look without blemish. But PacerLJ35 then went on to literally claim a falsehood, essentially asserting that they hadn’t made any mistake at all and that it was I who had made the mistake. They did not acknowledge their error! And that alone is deceitfulness, more, it is malevolent, deliberately ill-intentioned and malignant! And that kind of individual is precisely the kind who would be unaware of their mistake, then, when it is brought out, change it and accuse the other of being untrue! PacerLJ35 is, apparently, a deceitful, conniving individual, incapable of truthfulness or honor!
I pointed these facts out, along with the fact that, among other things, dust from Krakatoa was found to have ascended 40 miles high, and that sites such as Straight Dope include references to insects being borne into “the upper atmosphere” by winds, and that even birds like the bar-headed goose have been found flying above Mt. Everest, and that, once, a Rüppell’s griffon was seen at 37,500 feet, which indicates that PacerLJ35 seems to lack even the most basic legitimate information that someone who is supposed to be a pilot would possess!
That PacerLJ35 is a liar is evidenced by their changing their story about the length of the trail; their tale about the apparently absurd - if not risky - stunt of flying through, then paralleling a trail; their denial of the fact that dust, insects and even birds can occur at grewat heights, and their apparent attempted accusation of my supposedly “misquoting them”! And if, indeed, they are a pilot - and not lying about that, as well - then they seem to be among the most ill-informed that one can imagine a pilot being. They spout technical jargon incessantly, yet are not even aware of the actual conditions jets regularly fly through, and they admit it! I also mentioned, in passing, the fact that the site administrator who uses the i.d. Lulu seemed responsible for the posts on “a massive, national state of denial” being moved to a less frequented section of the site, because they dared stand up to the “debunkers”, and I said it was likely my posts would be treated the same way.
Immediately after I posted this evidence of PacerLJ35’s apparent deceit and fraud, Lulu did, apparentl,y arrangd to have my sequence of posts removed from the “Chemtrails” section - one of the most often visited - to the “Other Trails” section - which has a visitorship far less! Lulu’s “explanation”, in a letter to me, on the site, was that my posts had been “debunker-promoting”! In other words, my providing evidence of deceit and malevolence on PacerLJ35’s part was “promoting” them! In a post under “contrail sizes”, Lulu elaborated, saying:”Please keep debunker-type threads out of the Chemtrail forum. Thank you. Other Trails is more appropriate for these long drawn out debunker-bashing, debunker-promoting posts.”
To be “debunker-bashing” is automatically not to be “debunker-promoting”! There is no way, literally, to be both! So determined is Lulu, though, to “justify” their apparently unwarranted and underhanded act that they would go so far as to accuse me of two mutually exclusive actions at the same time! But, then, reason doesn’t mean anything to the unethical, only conning the unwary and gullible!
In a follow-up post, Lulu then proceeds onto an undeniably irrational tack. “I am curious Julian”, Lulu begins, “as to why you don’t devote one of your lengthy articles to a chemtrail activist? such[sic] as Thermit for example. You could promote his Trail Research Report. Why instead to[sic] you continue to promote the debunkers? Are they paying you? Are you a closet debunker perhaps? An agent maybe?”
“Also curious”, they continue, “as to the use of ‘government shill’ to describe me—is this because these words are listed below my profile at Maverick’s board??[sic] Too funny if this is the case. Did you not know that these made up names are assigned to members depending on the number of posts under the belt? Of course, a little research on your part would have discovered this. Do you prefer wild-*ss-speculations [deletion mine] instead?”
Is Lulu at all aware that the articles “devoted to” the “debunkers” are responses to their posts, trying to undermine what I say? As a wag might be tempted to say, “a little research” on Lulu’s part would reveal this! Not once did I praise, recommend or promote a “debunker”! I posted letters to the editor telling about, among others, Chickiedeb’s history and pattern of cruel and contemptuous verbiage against chemtrail opponents. I referred to the apparent “debunker” stunt of taking out an email address, using my name, on Yahoo, and using it to send scurrilous messages to Chickideb’s guest book, an incident of malicious mischief, attempted character assassination and identity theft! I indicated faults in reports and reasoning in things from the description of how contrails could, supposedly, persist for long periods of time, to the very title of the NMSR! And I demonstrated evidence that PacerLJ35 is a liar, and does not even possess among the most basic knowledge that might be expected of an actual pilot. There is not one spot in which I promoted the “debunkers” or their assertions!
Yet, to “explain” their move, Lulu accuses me of “promoting debunkers”. They even go so far as to, insultingly, ask if I am a “closet debunker”, or if they are “paying” me!
There is not one post I have placed on this board, or letter to the editor I have sent out, that could be legitimately interpretable as “promoting” the insistences of the “debunkers”!
But Lulu’s ham-handed attempt at the “exoneration” of their palpable act of viciousness demonstrates much, beyond what Lulu seems to hope it would. For, to even go to the evidently ludicrous extreme of saying my posts are “debunker promoting” demonstrates an absolute lack of anything valid to use as a “complaint” against me! A quality of the malignant is their willingness to use utter and complete fabrication against the innocent! And, for that matter, the more the accusations fail to resemble what the accused actually did, the more unscrupulous the accuser, and the more without taint the accused! Lulu is apparently nothing but a liar themselves, if they would say that I “promoted debunkers” in my posts! But, lacking anything genuine to accuse me of, Lulu - as with all liars - apparently has to resort to fabrication, and - like all liars - has no qualms about doing so!
Nor is it even legitimate to recommend “promoting chemtrail activists”. That would suggest a move to promulgate chemtrail opposition. But that would be utterly unnecessary on a forum devoted to opposing chemtrails! It would be “preaching to the choir”!
But that also ignores the very basic fact that my posts were never either “promoting” or “bashing”!
They were references to observations about chemtrail activity, speculations on chemtrail nature or qualities, and demonstrations of the invalidity of “debunker” actions and “arguments”, from their patent viciousness and evident corruption, to disproofs of their assertions.
To point out another’s lack of principle or irrationality is not to “bash” them, it is to tell the truth!
In fact, I challenge Lulu to indicate anything that I placed in a post that can be validly construed as “promoting debunkers”.
Lulu then proceeded from the insipid to the apparently truly delusional, as they accused me of referring to them, specifically, as a “government shill”. They infer that it was because they had the term “Government Shill” appended to their name, on posts placed on a “debunker” board, In an evidently desperate attempt to portray me as saying things without being sure of them, Lulu said that “a little research on my part” would reveal that the moniker was, presumably, not Lulu’s choice, and accused me of engaging in “wild-*ss” speculation.
Among other things, there is not one post that I placed on Chemtrail Central that specifically referred to Lulu as a “government shill”. I did, in fact, use the term, but it was a general reference to all “debunkers”. The only way that would apply to Lulu was if they, themselves, were devoted a “debunker”. In which case, any pretense of being either “on the fence” or “dedicated to the interests and rights of chemtrail opponents” would be patent deceit! Moreover, that was months ago! Why is Lulu only now reacting to the use of the phrase?
But, in fact, the suggestion that it was directed at Lulu themselves is nothing more than a lie, as well! But, in seeking “excuses” to try to deny my posts viewing, Lulu, apparently, has to resort to every low level of trickery and fraud!
Lulu is, apparently, nothing less than a back-stabber, trenchantly misusing their position on the Chemtrail Central board to prevent adequate discussion and addressing of chemtrails! Lulu shows no sign of being anything other than a betrayer of those they purport to defend!
And, for Lulu to be allowed to, effectively, violate the rights of Chemtral Central members, and work against their best interests, brands the entire site as nothing more than a fraud and a lie, a means to try to keep chemtrail opposition from acting toward the public’s welfare!
In all, it is a very sad thing to see something ostensibly for the public good perverted the way Chemtrail Central has apparently been. It is a truism that anything that can be used for good can also be put to an evil end. It is the obligation of the decent and righteous to oppose something intended for good being used for a vile purpose; it is in the nature of the malignant and corrupt not only to ignore when that occurs, but, also, to speed it happening! It is the obligation of the honorable to see to it that the iniquitous are not permitted to misuse something intended to do what is right and noble. All a “debunker” needs to do, apparently, to arrange for Lulu to engineer an “excuse” to delete the posts to an unvisited area, is simply to flood the topic with posts challenging the veracity of the statements, and, generally, engaging in evidently permitted bludgeoning of the chemtrail opponent!
The malignant typically embrace the very types of actions that the innocent abhor; things which the malignant - to feign innocence - pretend to abhor, as well!
If the chemtrail opponent tries to defend their position, by challenging the assertions of the “debunker”, they are immediately branded, by Lulu, as “promoting” that “debunker”, and their posts are peremptorily shunted to a largely unvisited area, to prevent newcomers and other opponents from seeing the apparent patent irrationality and unreasonableness of the “debunkers’” statements!
It is telling that Lulu failed to realize that, all the references to PacerLJ35 notwithstanding, the posts that were moved were built around an important, chemtrail-related subject, namely, the ascertaining of contrail durations through photographic evidence of the trails, to challenge the assertion that contrails occur in all spans, chemtrails only being one phase of contrail nature! Newcomers to the site could be moved to question that apparently patent falsehood, that chemtrails are merely naturally long-lived contrails, by using the methods described in the posts there! For all that PacerLJ35 may have been addressed in a number of posts does not alter the fact that the material is crucially related to contrail and chemtrail investigation! There is no legitimate reason for moving the posts!
But the underhanded and vile are not motivated by legitimacy; indeed, they see legitimacy as reason enough to abjure an action!
And that is precisely what seems to be the case on Chemtrail Central!
To all who value the idea of honor and honesty toward others, who truly wish to pursue the investigation of chemtrails, bear in mind that the administrators of this site have not shown that they share that sentiment, and, it seems, they will even fight against it!

posted 02-07-2003 11:13 PM            

Two questions Julian

will you be publishing this on rense? the exposure would be good...

and next week a piece on Thermit and his Trail Research Report? on rense ?

posted 02-08-2003 01:39 AM            

I've mentioned this before but for the newbies here...I shall re~iterate...

posted 02-10-2003 07:34 AM            

Will probably warrant a full-fledged article in the coming weeks...