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  Not This August: A China scenario.

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Topic:   Not This August: A China scenario.

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LWR
Cognitive Dissonance

Menlo Park, Ca, USA
224 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-02-2001 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LWR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not This August: A China scenario.

Foreign Affairs Editorial Editorial
Source: National Review
Published: 05/01/2001 Author: John Derbyshire

Not this August, nor this September; you have this year to do what you like. Not next August, nor next September; that is still too soon... But the year after that or the year after that they fight.
— Ernest Hemingway, Notes on the Next War

[Local announcer] Viewers, please continue to stand by. Do not change station. The President's address will be carried on all network channels, and on all cable news services. As soon as ... Excuse me ... Yes? ... We do? ... Thank you. All right, we are now going over to ... [Washington announcer cuts in] Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States.

My fellow Americans. I address you at a time of grave crisis. As you surely know, yesterday afternoon, shortly before dawn in the Western Pacific, forces of the People's Republic of China launched a barrage of missiles against Taiwan, destroying key military and government installations there. Early this morning it was confirmed to me that the barrage was followed by extensive landings on the island by airborne forces from the Chinese mainland. Fierce fighting is now taking place at several locations. Latest reports coming to me indicate that an armada of naval vessels has embarked from various points on the Chinese side of the Formosa Strait, presumably carrying invasion troops. There has been no news from official Taiwan communications channels since the dramatic declaration of independence that followed the missile attacks last night. All channels and all internet traffic out of Taiwan are now being jammed.

At the same time as the missile launches against Taiwan, there were, as you have heard, attacks on U.S. ships and planes in the region. My fellow Americans. It is ... It is my very sad, very grave duty to confirm to you now that the carriers U.S.S. Warren G. Harding and U.S.S. Benjamin Harrison have indeed been lost, along with several other vessels in their battle groups. I am not yet able to confirm the status or condition of U.S.S. Chester A. Arthur or its group. Nor am I able to confirm, or yet to deny, that these attacks were carried out with nuclear munitions. The Navy Department will issue bulletins as information becomes available. Our hearts go out to the families and loved ones of the many thousands of brave men and women who serve ... who served on these vessels. Rescue units are hastening to the Formosa Straits and the South China Sea to search for survivors. I have no doubt many of our servicepeople await rescue. We shall not fail them. However, my fellow Americans, we must brace ourselves for news of significant, of serious losses. I give you my most solemn assurance now: Those who have perished in these barbarous and cowardly attacks shall not go unavenged.

Nor shall the attempt to seize Guam, which is a sovereign U.S. territory, be allowed to stand. Our latest reports from the island indicate that our troops there are holding out bravely against superior enemy forces. Help is on its way. The so-called "People's Republic of Guam" is a fiction put about by Chinese propaganda organs. Officials of this entity are not accepted as legitimate authorities by the people of Guam, and will not be acknowledged as legitimate by the government of the United States, now or ever. Guam, though not a state, is U.S. territory, and will be defended.

My fellow Americans, I must urge you not to panic at this time. There is no, I repeat no, possibility of nuclear attacks against the territory of the United States. The Chinese authorities have been told in the strongest terms that any nuclear attack on the territory of the United States would be met with a massive retaliatory response in kind against the territory of the People's Republic. The Chinese authorities understand very well what would be the consequences of a nuclear attack on us. There is no cause for panic, or for flight out of our cities, or for the stockpiling of food or other goods. I urge you all to return to your homes. It is essential at this time for us to keep social order. The necessary movement of military supplies and equipment is being hindered by traffic jams on the exit roads from our cities. Please, return to your homes and do not travel by road unless you must. After this address, I shall immediately proceed to the emergency session of Congress, to ask your representatives for all that may be needed to defend our territories, avenge the loss of our ships, planes and servicepeople, and restore peace in the Western Pacific.

In the meantime, I have issued the following executive orders, effective forthwith except where an item requires congressional approval. Such approvals will be sought as a first priority in the emergency session following this address. Item: All U.S. citizens currently in the People's Republic for whatever purpose, are instructed to proceed to the nearest U.S. consular office to arrange for repatriation, or for transport to a neutral territory. Item: All Chinese citizens currently in the United States, for whatever purpose, are likewise instructed to make arrangements with their consular staff to leave the U.S. as speedily as possible. Chinese citizens still in the U.S. at a date 30 days from today will be liable to forcible deportation to neutral territory or, at the discretion of the Secretary of State, to house arrest or internment at a secure installation for the duration of hostilities. Item: Except where required for transportation of Chinese nationals out of the U.S., all ships, planes, vehicles, cargo, goods, products, and other impedimenta that can be identified as belonging to the Chinese government or its agencies, or to companies with known associations with that government or its agencies, are hereby declared impounded or liable to be impounded in the custody of whichever department of the U.S. government should be deemed appropriate by the enforcing agents on the spot. Item: All U.S. military personnel currently on leave are to report without delay ....
......
......
My fellow Americans, I should add that the stories you may have heard coming out of Tokyo and Seoul, demanding supervised immobilization of U.S. forces in those countries pending withdrawal, may also be artefacts of Chinese government misinformation. At the time of speaking, we maintain normal and friendly relations with both Japan and South Korea, and are in intensive negotiations with those governments regarding the status and deployment of U.S. forces stationed on their territory. Let me say here, too, that we regard the attitude of the European Union to be extremely, in fact disgracefully, unhelpful in the present crisis. The State Department has instructed our ambassadors in those EU nations that co-signed the so-called Declaration of Neutrality to proceed home without delay, and I understand that the nations concerned have also recalled their ambassadors from Washington. In regard to the even more disgraceful joint announcement by the governments of Cuba, the Bahamas, and the so-called Panamanian People's Republic...
......
......
Let me finally assure you that reports you may have been hearing of Chinese "electronic warfare," that is, of the ability of the Chinese military and intelligence agencies to disrupt broadcast, satellite, cable, and internet traffic — to extend, as one of our own analysts has put it, "the fog of war" into the civilian sphere — are very much exaggerated. Communications traffic within the U.S.A. has not been and will not be compromised ... [TV picture temporarily breaks up, then restores] ... interruption to ordinary news services ... [Longer break-up of TV picture, some garbling of audio] ... software and communications engineers working with the U.S. armed forces ... [Picture collapses into static "snow." Audio continues, but degraded] ... the American people will be kept fully informed ... [Severe audio degradation] ... fellow Americans ... [Heavy static burst on audio] ... stand together ... with God's help ... [Audio signal collapses into static hiss] ...

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-03-2001 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nicely written. I'm glad to see that folks are waking up to how much of a threat China poses, both currently and more so in the near future!

Mav

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-03-2001 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope. The one country on the globe that makes every single product you can buy at walmart, kmart, or any mart for that matter.

I don't believe it. Neither do many others.

This whole business about the spyplane and tensions is this and is summed up by that, First, use your eyes.

The main argument of the plane being forced down was a damaged prop with missing vanes - photos show no such damage; all vanes or blades accounted for with no damage.

THAT OBVIOUS LIE speaks a lot don't it?

If they will shove that lie down your throat, don't be too surprised when they start shoving other "bugaboo" lies down your throat.

PS What, me worry? Prescott Bush was in Taipai the whole time during this. Why?

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-03-2001 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NSA-
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/spy.plane.02/index.html

You were saying? Alleged conspiracies aside, there's actually quite a bit of damage to the left outboard prop. I'm not going to discuss George W's kin in Taipei, but the plane itself is clearly damaged. Also, Taipei is in Taiwan, not China.

Mav

------------------
Fox 2!

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-04-2001 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll say this for the Chinese... at least they haven't been spraying their civilian population with biological cocktails for the last three years.

Taiwan is still part of China, at least as far as the Chinese are concerned. The Chinese appear to have the edge technologically speaking as far as air superiority is concerned. Remember the photos that were posted on the net depicting Chinese fighters buzzing our carrier?

We pulled that bitch out of there fast.

What are your thoughts on this, Topgun? Would you feel confident squaring off against one of these advanced Soviet-made fighters?

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Molliani
Senior Member

Illinois
422 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-04-2001 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Molliani     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One of the most evil enemies facing
us today is Maurice Strong. He is a
greater threat than China......

WHENEVER we're called
"Fellow American's" rather than
"Taxpayers", it's a good indication
they want more than your money.......

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually, they just kill their citizens outright....
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/04/23/china.crime.reut/index.html

Or worse....
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/ASA170032001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\CHINA

Am I afraid of fighting the Chinese? You bet I am. Without going into too much detail, the Chinese now possess several capabilities that our military does not currently field, such as the helmet-mounted cueing system for the SU-27 Flanker. We're developing a system of our own as I speak, but it's still several years away from being operationally used. The helmet-mounted sight allows the pilot to basically look at an enemy plane and the missiles and radar are slewed to that line of sight. It may not sound like a big deal to you (or maybe it does. I know what it means to me,) but it gives a significant advantage in the visual arena. Along with the Russian's and the Israeli's missile sales to China, it gives them capabilites that will make them lethal at the "merge." Most of the times, it does come down to pilot ability and not the aircraft (within reason.) This being said, I'm not afraid of their pilots at all. It's the better machines that they are flying in and the better weapons that scare me.

With China's tripling of their defense budget and an emphasis placed on their OFFENSIVE capabilities, I can only speculate that they are using the money from your Wal-Mart purchase to pay for the aircraft carrier that they are currently building or their significant R&D on aerial refueling.

I'm not naive, however. I understand that it's hypocritical to judge China for their one aircraft carrier since we have several. They can't even begin to think about matching up to our Navy's ability to "project power." But, that's why they are putting so much money into their defense budget. And, very little of their money goes into research because they basically buy or steal foreign technology to copy it for their own use. This is evident in the Python 3 air-to-air missile from Israel and the Sukhoi line of front line fighters that China is building for themselves.

On a side note, the Python air-to-air missile series is a direct descendent of our own AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles that we gave to Israel, and Israel subsequently re-engineered and now sell to anyone with a willingness to buy. Us pilot types now train to fight against both Russian and Israeli weapons. Hmmm.....and we're still giving these guys our top-of-the-line stuff. Ungrateful, to say the least, is what I'd call them. Traitorous would actually be more appropriate.

Mav

------------------
Fox 2!

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desert flower
KICKASS GODDESS

lala land
165 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-04-2001 03:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for desert flower     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How long are we going to do this ? Till there 's nothing left??? Who cares who's doing what to who when there's nothing left to do it on?

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desert flower
KICKASS GODDESS

lala land
165 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-04-2001 03:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for desert flower     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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LWR
Cognitive Dissonance

Menlo Park, Ca, USA
224 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-04-2001 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LWR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Project China's E-mail: fuk-china@hushmail.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear China,
We're sorry that you don't train your fighter pilots better. As a token of our apology, here's a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000.(Please take note of the Copyright)
We're sorry that you're front-line fighter planes can't outmaneuver a 35 year old prop-driven airliner. Perhaps you'd like to consider purchasing some surplus 1950's era Lockheed Star Fighters from Taiwan. (We just replaced all theirs with shiny new F-16's).

We're sorry his aircraft recognition skills were so poor he didn't realize the EP-3 aircraft was propeller driven and flew his aircraft through its propeller arc, destroying his aircraft and nearly killing 24 American crewmen.

We're sorry that you believe your territorial waters extend all the way to Australia. For future reference, here's an American 6th grade geography textbook. (Please take note of the Copyright information printed inside the cover.)

We're sorry we have to fly surveillance missions to monitor a country that has nuclear missiles pointed at us.

We're sorry your fighter pilot's survival training and equipment was so inadequate that he couldn't survive until your poorly trained and equipped navy could find him (they turned down our offer for search and rescue assistance).

We're sorry you violated international law and arrested the crewmen of an aircraft that legally diverted into your airfield under emergency conditions caused by your pilot's actions.

We're sorry you violated international law and boarded a state aircraft.

We're sorry that you can't seem to see your part of this incident. We know that it may seem easier to blame others than to take responsibility. Consider this fact while we build several new Aegis destroyers for our friends in the Republic of China (Taiwan).

We're especially sorry for treating you with such respect for the last 20 years. We will definitely rethink this policy and probably go back to treating you like a common, untrustworthy street gang very soon.

We're very sorry for ever granting you Most- Favored-Nation trading status and supporting your entrance into the World Trade Organization. This will be rectified at the soonest possible opportunity.

We're sorry the world is now seeing you for the enemy of freedom, truth, and democracy that you really are.

We're sorry you see yourself as a superpower when in reality you are a third world nation (the average Chinese worker earns less than 10 cents a day).

We're sorry you are losing so much face over this.

We're sorry that you were able to steal missile and nuclear secrets from us.

We're sorry you haven't learned from the Soviet Union's collapse and failed to embrace democracy and capitalism (compare tiny Taiwan and mainland China; same people, same culture, but Taiwan's capitalistic economy is a powerhouse and China's economy is still mired in communism).

And most of all, we're sorry for the Chinese people who suffer its leaders' incompetence.

Sincerely,

-Hackah Jak

-Hackweiser

-The United States of America

PS... Kiss our a$$.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-04-2001 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Top Gun - I'm having a hard time seeing the damage to the left outboard prop. Could you please explain?

nsa - Did you save the original pictures of the undamaged plane? Could you post one or give it to Thermit to post?

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exactly...what damage. It is a known fact you can feather two of those four engines. Like the original thread states, Phillipines was closer and and allie.


Really. I want to hear you take apart the original thread post, piece by piece, and explain it to us, Mav. I am wondering why you aren't. Do you really think we are going to believe the govt line, when it doesn't fit the facts.

Re: China murdering its own people...sure...but if we are so damn holy, why are they making all our stuff? Apparently, we don't give a s**t about that, when it comes to getting goods at the fraction of the cost, when the manufacturer uses slave labor, much like our prison system makes goods for sale over there. Finger-pointing at China? Right...please just don't stop those container ships loaded with Walmart goodies.

I laughed so hard when writing this one, my sides are hurting!

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the original thread, for those who missed it the first time out.


by Al Martin

Aries II Down: Another Technology Transfer to China

In the continuing effort to make China the bogeyman of the 21st century, Washington has scored yet another coup - the loss of the EP-3E Aries II surveillance aircraft.

It's very reminiscent of the phony FBI Hanssen Spy Case. In other words, what the US Government is saying just doesn't jibe with the facts.

The implausible government story states that the Aries II aircraft was supposedly escorted by ancient Chinese F8 fighter planes to a Chinese military base at Hainan Island.

The Aries II has an electronic counter-measure capability that could completely fry the electronic components of a state-of-the-art MIG 29, let alone a vintage Chinese F-8. Its defensive capability consists of highly advanced directional microwave weaponry.

Also this US Navy aircraft uses technology that is proprietary to the National Security Agency. Most of the technology on the aircraft is electronic intercept in nature.

According to Department of Defense statements, all protocols were broken. This indicates that the incident has been staged to create a deliberate transfer of this technology. This technology is so advanced that even the NSA was queasy about giving it to the Chinese.

Since this technology is not proprietary to the Department of Defense and since the NSA directly controls the contractors who produce this equipment, there wasn't any way for those who are in favor of transferring this technology to China, as a matter of illegal covert State policy, to effect this transfer without staging an international incident. Therefore an incident had to be created to give the Chinese this technology.

Whoever was in charge of the aircraft command must have been in on it. Otherwise they would not have had the authority to circumvent the protocols, unless directly ordered to do so. The aircraft then would either be in pieces and the crew would be floating in life rafts. Or they would all be dead.

By the way, the military designation of the EP-3E Aries II aircraft is high enough that all crew members carry cyanide capsules. They must not fall into enemy hands for interrogation. And that is precisely where they are at this moment.

The Department of Defense claims they know nothing -- another bogus claim, since throughout the inside of the aircraft, there is a discreet video system which continues to broadcast.

The Defense Department is also trying to imply that the Chinese are jamming the signals, but what they're not saying is that the Chinese don't have the technological capability to jam these signals. These are highly advanced microburst transmissions that can even be bounced off of China's own satellites. The Chinese would not even be aware of it. Russian and Chinese equipment cannot even detect such complex microburst transmissions.

The protocol on this aircraft is very simple. If there was any chance that the aircraft could fall into hostile hands, the crew is deemed to be completely expendable. The protocol can only be overridden by the President of the United States.

The only logical conclusion about this incident is that it is simply an ongoing transfer of sophisticated technology to the Chinese military.

First, the government had admitted that there were 24 personnel on the aircraft the "majority of which were US Navy personnel." The aircraft's has 19 operating stations, Who are the non-Navy personnel, which the government refuses to identify?

Second, why did the crew not execute its emergency protocol and destroy the aircraft?

The media is reporting that the crew is supposed to destroy the technology by any means necessary. What they're not saying is that the aircraft has a self-destruct mechanism already built in. It could have been completely destroyed.

If it appears that the aircraft is about to fall into "hostile" hands, the normal protocol is that the self-destruct mechanism is supposed to be activated. If the aircraft is over international waters, they are supposed to actually ditch the plane and land on the water. The aircraft is built, so it can make an emergency water landing.

Since the Aries II is a naval aircraft, it is built to stay afloat long enough for the crew to get out and the life rafts to automatically inflate. The aircraft also carries emergency survival equipment with an EBIRB, an emergency locating system.

The protocol then would have been to either destroy the plane or land on the water, in which case, had the emergency self-destruct mechanism been rendered inoperable for any reasons, as the plane began to sink, the emergency self-destruct mechanism would have been activated automatically when sea water came into contact with the amitol derivative explosives in the mechanism. Amitol automatically explodes when sufficiently saturated by seawater.

Even if the self-destruct mechanism had been rendered inoperable, as the aircraft sank into the ocean and filled with seawater, it would have automatically detonated. The question remains - why weren't these protocols followed?

If the plane was able to travel an additional 76 miles and land on hostile territory, why couldn't it have flown to Vietnamese territorial waters? The US Government claims that the plane was "severely damaged" and had to make an emergency landing.

How "severely damaged" could the plane have been and still have flown 76 miles to make a landing at a Chinese air force base?

The aircraft had to fly north when it could have simply turned west. Since it was less than 76 miles from Vietnamese territorial waters, there would have been no threat there given the extremely hostile relationship between Vietnam and China regarding territorial disputes in that region.

One could almost say that the reason the protocol was not invoked was because China was not considered a "hostile" country.

The "coincidental" nature of this international incident also plays into the hands of the Republican right and the defense contractors clamoring to sell Taiwan the large and profitable arms package which includes the Aegis II missile system.

The longstanding Bush family connections with defense contractors who would profit handsomely by this sale should also not be underestimated vis-a-vis the creation of this current incident. Regarding the yet unidentified extra personnel on the aircraft -- could they in fact be electronics experts who were there to help the Chinese dismantle the technology?

The key system the Chinese want from this aircraft is called SCSS, Story Classic Surveillance System. It is the most sophisticated electronics surveillance and communications reception technology ever constructed.

It has the ability to intercept and decode transmissions.

It can locate the source of the transmissions and automatically translate from any language into English. It can pick up computer transmissions, telephone and fax transmission, and long wave transmissions from submarines. In short, this device can intercept any electronics communications generated anywhere on the planet, underneath the ocean, and even in outer space. There has never been anything like it. It is estimated to be 20 years ahead of any other similar technology.

The reason why Washington wasn't able to get this device to China through the usual illicit means is that it is proprietary to the National Security Agency. They're the ones who control these devices and they're the ones who build these devices.

Its capabilities are truly fantastic -- simultaneous translation in all languages from any intercepts -- underwater traffic, cable traffic, email traffic, telephone traffic, and satellite traffic. And it can also pinpoint the location of where the transmission originates.

The National Security Agency has been consistently opposed to the Washington policy of covertly arming China. NSA does not have the same vested interest that those in the shadows of the White House and the Department of Defense have in arming China.

It must be remembered that the modus operandi is to rearm China and to make China the bogeyman of the 21st century, so everybody can start making money again. Essentially it's an effort to turn back the clock.

NSA does not have a vested interest in this because it doesn't need to operate from a large covert infrastructure. It doesn't have to generate illicit covert monies the way others do. It's not like the CIA or Department of Defense. It is really a more technically oriented agency dealing in electronics. It doesn't deal in a lot of field intelligence and the sales of weapons and narcotics to produce illegal covert revenue streams pursuant to the sustenance of illegal illicit or surreptitious State policy. It is more of a technical adjunct and therefore the NSA doesn't have this vested interest.

The SCSS is proprietary technology built by the NSA. It's built by a shadowy electronics company known as Vtek Industries, which is secretly controlled by the NSA. It's so tightly controlled that the DoD and others in Washington haven't been able to get their hands on it.

This SCSS system is also the same system used in the NSA Westar 7 satellite, which has the ability to monitor all telephone communications on earth. Unlike the Echelon system, which is an invasive system, the SCSS is a passive intelligence gathering system.

The Chinese F8 fighters, which supposedly forced the Aries II to land, are knock-offs of early MIG-21 jets from about 1961.

The US Government is saying that the two Chinese F8 fighters were on "routine patrol"(you could ask -- how do they know that?) and one of them collided with the EP-3E.

They're not mentioning the fact that the Chinese actually scrambled the aircraft out of their airbase on Hainan Island to intercept the Aries II, even though the aircraft was over international waters.

The electronic countermeasure capability of this aircraft is so advanced and the Chinese ECCM (electronic counter-counter measure) is so antiquated that it is in fact possible that the only way the Chinese aircraft could do anything would be to ram the US aircraft..

The Aries II ECM capability would have completely fried out the fire and control mechanisms of the F8. They couldn't have fired. They couldn't have locked on the radar and target imaging system. The only thing they could have done to be a threat is to have rammed the aircraft.

That part of the story has plausibility, but now they're saying the contact was accidental.

How do you make "accidental" contact with weather conditions of a brilliant clear sky and unlimited ceiling?

They would have visually seen it from a long way off, since it's a large aircraft.

The other explanation is that the Chinese aircraft was letting the Aries II know that if they didn't fly to Hainan Island that the Chinese pilots were prepared to sacrifice their lives and ram the plane. In other words, "your ECM technology may have fried our fire and control mechanism and our target imaging system but we will still ram you."

The Chinese pilots didn't have the bigger picture. They were scrambled out on a mission and sent after this aircraft with the instructions to force this aircraft to land on Chinese territory by any means necessary.

It's also unlikely that the Navy personnel on the Aries II knew the reasons. It's probably only the shadowy unidentified non-Navy extra personnel who knew what was going on. Therefore the Navy personnel didn't really have any choice. It was either fly the plane to Chinese territory -- or get rammed.

These are the issues the US Government is dancing around. And just like the Hanssen case, the more the government talks about this incident, the more they contradict what they said before.

First they said there were 24 people on the aircraft. Then when everyone noticed the aircraft complement of people was less, they said there were additional non-Navy personnel, which they weren't prepared to identify. Then suddenly the F8s were on patrol. Then they admitted that they were scrambled out. Then they said, the plane had to make an emergency landing.

The Department of Defense briefing stated that the plane was in "severe distress" and "They were going down and they had to make an emergency landing" when they were able to fly an additional 76 miles.

This always happens because you've got the State Dept issuing press releases. You've got Defense issuing press releases. The Navy is issuing press releases. And as always in government, they don't coordinate the lies.

Everyone has different agendas, and consequently there isn't any cooperation for the LCC. The LCC (Lie Coordination Committee) function doesn't work And this really exists. Usually it comprises one of the Deputy Assistant Secretaries of each agency in the cabinet.

The problem is when there are so many turf battles and cases of inter-agency rivalry, these agencies have different agendas and the normal Lie Coordination function doesn't work.

Most recently, the Navy has issued another contradicting statement -- that contrary to public knowledge, the aircraft was not fitted with an explosive self-destruct mechanism.

The Navy spokesman actually said that the self-destruct mechanism in the aircraft consisted in having a hammer at every operating station. Every operating station comes with its own emergency hammer that's built into it.

The instructions on the hammer state that if there's any chance that the plane will fall into hostile hands, the station operator is instructed to "take the hammer and beat the ever loving piss out of this piece of equipment."

In fact the Department of Defense issued a statement that as the plane was being escorted to Chinese territory, the crew was supposed to be taking their hammers and beating the piss out of their stations. Why did the aircraft personnel wait until the aircraft was on the ground before attempting to destroy the equipment, while armed Chinese troops were entering the aircraft?

The DoD has repeatedly stated the level of technology is so advanced that if it were to fall into hostile hands, it would seriously impact US offensive military capabilities for a decade. Therefore, either the Department of Defense is over-hyping this equipment. Or someone in Washington wanted this equipment to be in Chinese hands. There is no other explanation.

And here's the ludicrous context of this ludicrous story.

With the most secret electronics surveillance system in existence - for which crews are supposed to become expendable, before the equipment falls into enemy hands, the only self-destruct mechanism, according to the Department of Defense, is a spare hammer with the instructions on the label "to beat the ever loving piss out of it…"

This is not your ordinary hammer, but a "special" Department of Defense hammer, which undoubtedly cost the American taxpayer $600.

But the real operating protocol for the emergency procedures of the Aries II -- if there is any possibility that the aircraft should become involved in a situation wherein said technology may fall into hostile hands -- the crew becomes completely expendable.

They are to undertake whatever measures are necessary to prevent this equipment from falling into hostile hands. In other words, the technology on this aircraft is so sophisticated that it is CL-1 (Compartmentalized Level 1) technology, the highest possible classification that exists.

The people who fly the Aries II surveillance aircraft equipped with this technology are essentially operating on a wartime protocol, while flying parallel to the coast of a hostile nation. They must counter any threat to this technology by its destruction.

If the Department of Defense claims that the aircraft doesn't have an explosive self- destruct mechanism, the question remains - why didn't they just let the plane go into the ocean?

The crew's lives are immediately expendable upon threat, which means that they are to expend their lives to prevent the technology and equipment in question from falling into hostile hands. So why is the crew still alive?

And why is the aircraft still intact?

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ooooooooooooooooooo...CHINA!!!...ooooooooooooooooooooo

I'am a scared, Pa!

Aries II Revisited:
The Deluge of Government Lies Continues

The US Government's Ludicrous Statement Index regarding the Aries II Incident once more scales to new heights of ludicrousness.

It all started again on Wednesday April 25, when, according to Jane's Defense Weekly, the Department of Defense was put under more pressure by the facts recited in the Al Martin Raw article on the downed plane incident (Aries II Down: www.almartinraw.com/column12.html).

Besides Jane's, there was a plethora of other media outlets that "hammered" the Department of Defense's previous assertion that the Aries crew had successfully destroyed the bulk of the technology in question.

Interestingly enough The Aries II Down story published on Al Martin Raw was the only story in the world that actually called this incident a "technology transfer" from the very beginning.

It is by now reasonable to conclude that the government has actually made a defacto admission, that this incident was in fact a technology transfer from the United States to China.

Suddenly the Department of Defense added "axes" to their ludicrous story (as in "the crew tried to destroy the top secret equipment with axes") when in fact there were no axes in the inventory on the aircraft. Then they admitted that there were no axes anywhere.

What happened is they got their wires crossed. That was the Department of Defense release. Subsequently when the Navy released the inventory of what was on the plane, people noticed there were no axes. After all, why would you have "axes" on this type of an aircraft? I mean, you're not chopping firewood up there.

This is called Bad Lie Coordination, as usual, as it's been all along in this story.

Then the Department of Defense admitted that "not as much technology" was destroyed as they previously had said and that they now believe that the Chinese are in possession of certain technology that they didn't think they were in possession of before.

Subsequently on April 27, the Department of Defense finally admitted that "no technology was destroyed." In fact, they say that it is reasonable to assume that the Chinese are in possession of the entire Story Classic System -- the key technology they were interested in which is the technology that interprets the data, not necessarily that which collects the data.

For a long time, the Chinese have tried to buy the Aries II system surreptitiously and they have not been successful. The Russians don't have anything that's equivalent. In addition, the Aries II has multi-channel capability, which allows it to collect an unusually large amount of data at one time. It's called one source point technology.

Now let's take a look at the Government's latest pronouncement. According to the Department of Defense, the Chinese have agreed to have a delegation of DoD representatives come to Hainan Island to inspect the aircraft.

However (I love it), no photographs can be taken because it is a "secure Chinese military base." And no media will be allowed, thus allowing the Department of Defense the opportunity to backpedal on their previous statement of Friday, wherein they admitted that they suspected that the Chinese had taken 95% of the technology on the aircraft.

The American media will be fed dummied up photographs showing how much of the equipment was supposedly destroyed.

Furthermore the Department of Defense has stated that they are negotiating with the Chinese request for monetary reparations to be paid by the United States for the incident.

Meanwhile, at the weekly meeting of the Group at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville Alabama, the generals were in stitches about it. (By the way the group of retired generals and colonels call themselves The MICs, which stands for Military Industrial Complexers. They even have a bowling team called "The Complexers.")

The US major general there is very friendly with the Chinese major general from the People's Liberation Army, which runs an arms company surreptitiously out of Hong Kong. The Chinese position was that this was supposed to be a "clean technology transfer" and they're supposed to get everything.

What gummed up the works is that not everyone on the aircraft was in the loop. The only people who were in the loop were the five so-called unidentified non-military personnel, which incidentally the Department of Defense still refuses to identify.

Conveniently, when they show photographs of the people who have been returned, they only show the Navy personnel. They have still never shown these other civilian personnel. No pictures of them landing or being transported. Nothing. It's very convenient.

In fact, some of it -- a little of it -- was evidently really destroyed. So the Chinese are now demanding that US taxpayer money be paid to them to illegally purchase from surreptitious US arms merchants the same technology.

This will allow the Department of Defense to backpedal on their previous statement, since there can be no independent corroboration on the photographs they're going to show.

Regarding previous statements, the use of the hammers to bang the high tech equipment on the plane has been confirmed - but they were ball peen hammers, not the eight-pound hammers the Department of Defense claimed.

The government also claimed there were "axes" used to smash the equipment, but the only axes that were ever known to be around the aircraft were the axes that the Chinese soldiers used to break down the doors.

Contrary to the Ludicrous Government Statements, there are no other axes on the aircraft. The plane has an internal fire extinguishing system, so there is no need for the typical break this glass cabinets on board. The only axes were the axes the Chinese soldiers left behind after they broke down the door.

What makes it even more ludicrous is the Department of Defense Statement No.16, out of the 142 they've now made. First they said that the crew had time to destroy the technology while the plane was still in the air. Then they said - No, that's not true, because the plane was so severely damaged, they were busy trying to land so they didn't have time.

Then they went to a second line where they got hammers after the plane was on the ground in order to try to destroy it. Despite this story, subsequently a press release from the Chinese Army through the Chinese State Media claimed that the Chinese soldiers were inside the aircraft within 60 seconds after it came to a stop on the ground.

Historically speaking, dummying up video footage and photographs for publication by the Department of Defense is nothing new.

For example, in the September 1985 ASAT Tests, the DoD showed videotape of a high altitude anti-satellite missile launch from a F15 successfully destroying a low orbit satellite.

Later the Department of Defense admitted it was a fake and that the missile in fact didn't hit anything. In other words, the entire thing was dummied up.

Then in 1989, the Department of Defense videotape showed one of the new Patriot missiles systems striking a target. Subsequently they admitted that that videotape was also dummied up.

Then in 1996, they showed the V-22 Osprey on "successful military maneuvers" stating that the aircraft performed to its full specifications. Later they back-pedaled on that too, saying that this video and the accompanying photographs had also been dummied up.

In this incident, they were videotaping the actual Osprey. It was one of the first times they showed the Osprey in camouflage colors. The plane during the test actually crashed -- after they said "it performed flawlessly." Actually they spliced the footage together as they commonly do.

It should also be noted that the Department of State said that they would negotiate with the Chinese for reparation payments.

Meanwhile, the Department of Defense denied it, then later backpedaled again and said that they have no knowledge because State didn't tell Defense in advance what they were going to do.

Interestingly enough, the Department of State isn't linking this reparation to the loss of the Chinese fighter. Thus reparations would be an admission that the US had done something wrong. They're essentially caving in. What they will do for public consumption is subsequently tie this payment to reparations for the loss of the aircraft and payment to the pilot's family.

Meanwhile the Complexers were all laughing at the manufactured indignation of the Chinese Government over Bush's announcement of military sales to Taiwan. Bush, as everybody knows, refused to sell Taiwan the Aegis Class guided missile destroyers. Instead he decided to sell them the Kidd class guided missile destroyers.

The media didn't explain what this really means. The Kidd class guided missile destroyers were first manufactured in the 1970s. They have long since been retired from our own naval inventory. As a matter of fact, they had to take them out of mothballs to sell them to the Taiwanese. They carry a missile system that "couldn't hit a flying elephant." This is the weapons system that the US decided to sell to Taiwan.

The infamous illegal Chinese arms merchant Lanny Chin was also there. He said that, of course, his government would come out with some righteously indignant statement threatening the United States, regarding the sale, when in fact the Chinese are actually laughing about it.

As a matter of fact, the United States Naval Museum has officially classified the Kidd Class guided missile destroyers as "antiques." They are absolutely no match whatsoever for the new Chinese Sunburn Class guided missile destroyers that the Chinese bought from the Russians.

What nobody seems to understand is that, according to the 1979 protocol between the United States and Taiwan (when Carter first backed away from Taiwan and when the US withdrew its ambassador and put Taiwan on a special status), the Taiwanese were limited to purchasing weapons systems from the US, or US allies, that the US approved of -- in exchange for military protection from the United States.

This limits what the Taiwanese can buy. Also the protocol allowed the US to sell all its weapons through intermediaries since there is no direct diplomatic exchange. The weapons are sold to offshore companies, cutouts essentially, then sold to the Taiwanese at about three times what the weapons are actually worth.

It was done that way on purpose so the Complexers could make money.

The Democrats never really cared about it. It was more of a Republican issue. Essentially what the US is doing is sacrificing Taiwan for a commercial relationship with the Peoples Republic of China.

When Bush Jr. reiterated American support for Taiwan, many people noticed the weakness of the statement. It is a reversal from the previous Reagan-Bush statements. The US has backed away from the protocol that an attack on Taiwan from the PRC was an aggressive act of war against the United States, the Reagan Bush interpretation.

What Bush Jr. has intimated in his statement is that an aggressive act against Taiwan will no longer be considered an act of war against the United States. As time goes by, the US will slowly back away from Taiwan. Then it is likely that the Taiwanese will buy weapons from the Russians. It is the only place where they can buy sophisticated weapons that actually work.

If you look at the cutouts that are selling antique weapons systems to Taiwan at three times what they are worth, they are cutouts that are directly linked to defense contractors in which the Bush Family has a vested financial interest - for example, Lockheed Martin, Rockwell, Boeing, and in particular, Loral - a company in which the Bush family is most heavily invested.

What they're doing now essentially is augmenting their own wallets.

It's all about money.


AL MARTIN, a retired US Navy Lt. Commander and former officer in the Office of Naval Intelligence, is America's foremost whistle-blower on government fraud and corruption, having testified before the congressional Kerry Committee and the Alexander Committee.

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Al Martin is definately on to something. A month before W stole the election, he outlined what we could expect in the first 100 days and by gum, it has happened exactly as he said it would.

We now are rearming china

tax cuts for rich bloaters

making China the new bad-guy

and of course, raping the treasury.

Here's is original article:

by Al Martin

(This new feature column by Al Martin will be updated weekly with information about Washington you won't find in the mainstream media)

What will it be like with George Bush Jr. as president?

It will be a return to the "Bush" form of government -- namely a government of shadowy cliques, secret commissions and de facto star chambers.

The new Bush Administration will probably accelerate the pace of re-arming China to make China the new boogeyman because nobody makes any money unless there's a boogeyman.

The Bush Administration will then use that as an excuse to pump up defense spending, to wit, all defense contractors have given very generously to the Republican Party. Consequently, years later, a new Bush Administration will institute tax cuts for the wealthy and try to eliminate estate taxes which Bush has talked about in the past.

By the end of the first term of a new Bush Administration, all the surplus which is supposed to be used to reduce the national debt and repay the money his father swiped from social security would in fact be absorbed in new spending and tax cuts.

You have to look at the entire Bush Family in this context -- as if the entire family ran a corporation called "Frauds-R-Us."

Each member of the family, George Sr., George Jr., Neil, Jeb, Prescott, Wally, etc., have their own specialty of fraud.

George Jr.'s specialty was insurance and security fraud.

Jeb's specialty was oil and gas fraud.

Neil's specialty was real estate fraud.

Prescott's specialty was banking fraud.

Wally's specialty was securities fraud.

And George Sr.'s specialty?

All of the above.

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afraidofsunlight
Senior Member


Balto.,Md.
100 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for afraidofsunlight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


China has us just where they want us.....
by the throat.
What we don't give,
they buy.

Russia?
G.S.P. was right.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by afraidofsunlight on 05-04-2001]

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-04-2001 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excerpt of Letter to Bedel Smith, 3rd August, 1944:

"And who are we going to shoot first? Those goddamn Russkies or the rotten bastards on Long Island who put them there in the first place?"


The point is, is that you can't believe all those decades of propaganda you have had shoved down your throat. Think about it...not A WORD ABOUT CHINA...then...the election comes and goes...W is in office...now...out of nowhere...CHINA IS THE NEW BADGUY OF THE MILLENIUM. IF this is true, where was this rhetoric from before January?

You are watching a play unfold. All the military lapdogs are happy to play it, cuz it means a boost in money, career raises, more planes, bombs, and missles and all with your silent consent, cuz hey...China is the bad guy.

Don't buy into it.

Here's a prediction for you. By summer's end, you will start seeing a plethora of new movies coming out with China in some way being behind state-sponsored terrorism, or what have or whatever. Already, in the last two weeks, new stuff on China is already hitting the history channel and all that. We will be deluged with propaganda, the same way we were regarding the Soviet Union back in the day.

Just watch it happen. In fact, it's happening right now, from LKlive to Crossfire to you NAME IT. All the heavies are coming out.

But go to the store. Look the package over.


MADE IN CHINA


Please...for the sake of truth...don't buy into this. You didn't buy into the chemtrails don't exist lie, so don't be a sap now.

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