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Topic:   Oklahoma City Bombing

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just heard about the delay in the McVeigh execution due to documents kept by the FBI. Maybe there is actually some light shining through in this case? I wanted to get the thread started in case anyone wants to discuss it.

We can post more on the OKC bombing in time re: several points of evidence denied to the American public...lack of bomb crater, evidence of 2 explosions, etc. Media collusion in coverups.

Will we ever have any answers or justice re: the Waco Massacre? Were the kids who died there MKULTRA victims, executed by NSA black ops?

[Edited 2 times, lastly by defender on 05-11-2001]

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-11-2001 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

FBI Statement:

On Tuesday, May 8, the Department of Justice notified Timothy McVeigh's attorneys of a number of FBI documents that should have been provided to them during the discovery phase of the trial.

While the department is confident the documents do not in any way create any reasonable doubt about McVeigh's guilt and do not contradict his repeated confessions of guilt, the department is concerned that McVeigh's attorneys were not able to review them at the appropriate time.

The documents have been made available to McVeigh's attorneys, and the department has asked for notification if they believe any of the documents create any reasonable doubt about McVeigh's guilt.


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LWR
Cognitive Dissonance

Menlo Park, Ca, USA
224 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-11-2001 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LWR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
New National Anthem
Hello?
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?
Come on, now,
I hear you're feeling down.
Well I can ease your pain
Get you on your feet again.
Relax.
I'll need some information first.
Just the basic facts.
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship, smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like two balloons.
Now I've got that feeling once again
I can't explain you would not understand
This is not how I am.
I have become comfortably numb.

O.K.
Just a little pinprick.
There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick.
Can you stand up?
I do believe it's working, good.
That'll keep you going through the show
Come on it's time to go.

There is no pain you are receding
A distant ship, smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye.
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown,
The dream is gone.
I have become comfortably numb.

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Secret Pentagon Report on Oklahoma City Bombing--Evidence of an Inside Job?
by J. Orlin Grabbe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. government attempts to portray Timothy McVeigh as the "lone bomber" (with assistance from Terry Nichols) in the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City have completely collapsed with recent revelations of McVeigh's associations with individuals connected to the Aryan Republican Army, as well as with a BATF informant and an agent of German military intelligence.

This has led some to conclude that there has been a U.S. government (primarily BATF and FBI) cover-up motivated by the desire to destroy evidence of a "government sting gone bad," much as with the bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City.

The secret Pentagon report shows, however, that such a judgment may be too kind to the agencies concerned. The principal damage to the Alfred P. Murrah Building was brought about by explosives placed on five columns of the Murrah Building, according to the Pentagon report, and not by the ANFO bomb in the truck supposedly driven by McVeigh. Thus, until the individuals who placed the explosives on the columns of the Murrah Building are identified, any proposed explanation of how the bombing came about is woefully inadequate. The existence of demolition charges placed on some columns at the third-floor level of the Murrah Building is strongly suggestive of inside participation by at least some federal employees.

The Pentagon commissioned nine explosive experts to write independent reports on the bombing, and adopted two of the nine reports as the "official" report. I spoke to both experts, but they declined to be interviewed, citing confidentiality agreements with the Pentagon. Sources familiar with the Pentagon report, however, have confirmed that the conclusions were similar in nature to those of a private report prepared by General Benton K. Partin, dated July 30, 1995, except that the Pentagon report concludes there were demolition charges placed on five columns, not four as concluded by General Partin.

Partin's report showed that the pattern of damage to the Murrah Building was inconsistent with the ANFO truck bomb as a point source for the explosion, and that the damage sustained by the columns could not possibly have come from this source.

Explosive pressure drops off approximately with the cube of the distance. Double the distance, and you reduce the explosive pressure (pounds per square inch) to one-eighth its original value.

If the 4800 pounds of ammonium nitrate in the Ryder truck bomb were in a compressed sphere and detonated from the center, it would have generated a blast wave with an initial pressure of about 500,000 pounds per square inch. By the time the nearest Murrah Building column was reached, that pressure would have fallen to about 375 pounds per square inch.

The rows of columns in the Murrah building can be labeled from front to back as rows A, B, and C. The rows are about 35 feet apart. The columns in each row can be labeled from left to right (as seen by an individual facing the front of the building) as numbers 1 through 11. The third column in the first row would thus be labeled "A3". The columns are 20 feet apart within each row.

The concrete in the columns had a compressible yield strength of at least (and probably higher than) 3500 pounds per square inch. Since this value is almost ten times the strength of the blast wave hitting the columns from the truck bomb, the blast wave is insufficient to produce a wave of deformation in the concrete (and thus to turn it back into its sand, gravel, and clay components).

However, a high detonation velocity contact explosive attached to a column would have generated pressure of 1 to 1.5 million pounds per square inch-- about 300 times the yield strength of the concrete, and thus would have pulverized it into sand until the blast wave front had dropped below the yield strength of the concrete. Left behind would be a smooth granular surface with protruding steel reinforcement rods (which have a much higher yield strength).

General Partin's report shows strong evidence of such contact explosive charges placed on columns B3, A3, A5, and A7. While the truck bomb itself was insufficient to destroy columns, it was responsible for ripping out some floors at the second and third floor levels, Partin concluded.

The notion of a government-sting gone awry would at best suggest the idea that BATF or FBI agents planned to arrest McVeigh in a dramatic flourish of publicity when he pulled up in front of the Murrah Building in his rented Ryder truck containing the ANFO bomb. But this story becomes faintly ridiculous when you consider that demolition charges were placed on five Murrah Building columns well before McVeigh's arrival. If there was a government sting in operation, then someone was using their knowledge of the sting as cover for the actual bombing. Either way, it suggests an inside job.

Finally, McVeigh was not arrested prior to the bombing. Which leads one to ask, What government sting? We are basically left with evidence of government complicity and government cover-up, but with no evidence of a government sting. Did some government agency take advantage of the general expectation that something would happen that day, and, for its own reasons, ensure these fears were realized?


Prior Knowledge of the Explosion
There are several sources of evidence of a prior expectation of a bombing to take place on April 19, 1995.

Executed on the day of the Oklahoma bombing was Richard Wayne Snell for murder of a black Arkansas trooper. Snell had been involved in a plot to blow up the Murrah Building in 1983. And, according to Alan Ables, an Arkansas prison official quoted by the Denver Post, "Snell repeatedly said that there would be a bombing or explosion the day of his death." The explosion took place at the Murrah Building, the previous focus of Snell's attention.

Snell's information would appear to have come from Robert Millar, who was in attendance as Snell's spiritual advisor. Millar was the founder of Elohim City, a religious commune in Oklahoma near the border with Arkansas. Timothy McVeigh had made numerous visits to Elohim City in the weeks before the bombing (see, for example, William F. Jasper, "More Pieces to the OKC Puzzle," The New American, June 24, 1996).

A BATF informant named Carol Howe wrote her BATF case officer in Tulsa that the Elohim City group, or its operational arm the "Aryan Republican Army", was planning to blow up a building with a possible date of April 19, 1995 (McCurtain Daily Gazette, February 11, 1997). Howe said there were three possible targets, two in Tulsa, and one in Oklahoma City.

(Members of the Aryan Republican Army are currently charged with bank robberies in Ohio and Pennsylvania. This includes Peter Langan, on trial in Columbus, Ohio, and Michael Brescia, indicted in Philadelphia. Witnesses have identified Brescia as "John Doe II", originally sought by the FBI in the Oklahoma City bombing.)

The BATF says the warnings were too vague to prompt any actions. Too vague, apparently, to warn security guards at the Murrah Building, who overlooked all the activity involved in placing demolition explosives on the building columns.

But not too vague not to warn BATF employees to stay home for the day. No BATF employee was among the 168 killed in the bombing.

February 11, 1997
Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 03:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LWR, in your post over on the MKULTRA thread you wrote;

"Found an interesting tidbit on freerepublic last night. Seems that the government
psychiatrist who examined McVeigh initially was a "Dr. Jolly", i.e., Dr
Louis Jolyan West, was a former Director of MKULTRA. One of the
freerepublic posters noted that "Dr Jolly" had access to McVeigh not only
during and after his "trial" but in the 17 days he was held at an Air Force
Base (Tinkers ?) before being turned over to Denver feds. Remember the
implant that McVeigh claimed and later denied? You don't need implants with
Dr. Jolly around."
Borrowed from another board

There were also reports of MKULTRA doctors involved with Sirhan Sirhan, and school shooters, probably also connected with many other murders nationwide.

It's interesting that you source was FreeRepublic. I was just watching Fox News channel, and one of the reporters quoted FreeRepublic as an Internet source (like they are real clued in and 'hip' to the Internet technology!). The only quotes she made allegedly from a forum on FreeRepublic was from a couple of 'debunkers', as if to say that, just like the TV viewing audience, the Internet world thinks there was no conspiracy in the OK City Bombing!!

It's almost funny to watch them scurrying for position on how to spin this, they keep hammering away that 'McVeigh is guilty', that 'McVeigh wants to die', that 'McVeigh is probably enjoying all of this'...

Not once in all this time have we even heard a statement from him, only hearsay from The Powers That Suck!

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afraidofsunlight
Senior Member


Balto.,Md.
100 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-11-2001 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for afraidofsunlight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The FBI 'mis-placed" 3,000 page's of document's.

RIGHT.


Sound's like another Reno-Clinton operation.

Funny country.
Who murdered those people at Waco?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by afraidofsunlight on 05-11-2001]

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-11-2001 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, it's funny that the media/govt. spends so much time with memorials and screaming about the deaths at OKC, but nothing about the murders at Waco. It's okay for feds to murder what the media labeled as a 'cult', but when it's government employees killed, thats a different story.

I've been watching Fox News, MSNBC and CNN most of the day, and it seems like they're trying to create a very hositle climate against McVeigh, like they did with Lee Harvey Oswald before Ruby killed him. If they can keep generating this atmosphere of hate, it won't come as a big surprise if McVeigh should wind up dead by another 'lone assassin' before another trial can take place.

They're only interviewing the %10 of OKC family members who wanted to see the execution, not the other %90 who would rather see total justice and find out if there were other conspirators.

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Delphi
Mystic Warrior


S. Bossier, Louisiana
1583 posts, Mar 2001

posted 05-11-2001 10:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delphi   Visit Delphi's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can see it in his eyes, MacVeighs brain has been "fried" one way or another....I don't even think he did it at all...There is a store security tape of him elsewhere...even so, You're probably right, someone is gonna neutralize him with extreme prejudice...I hope not. I never thought about the Waco kids and MK business....could be. Heavens-Gate folks murdered too. Marshall Applewhite looked at a TV camera in the 70's and said right into it, "I'm going to be murdered". What a world! Joanne

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 05-11-2001 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This has bothered me from the begining.

I believe McVeigh was/is the patsy-boy. I have felt that way from day one.

The Columbine shooting was a tragedy farce as well. Other children from that school saw grown men (not teen-size) in black jumpsuits running around the place before the event ever happened, and that they saw one of them do the shooting, not the kid.

The Skolnick Report on the OK Bombing is good reading for those wanting to see the bigger picture.

Christy

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Swedishoo on 05-11-2001]

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-13-2001 07:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Swedishoo,

That source you mention may be a better source, for truth about OKC bombing. Skolnicks research seems to make sense. The Pentagon source I posted could just as easily be more disinfo in regards to that militia they mention. I know that 'someone', either ATF/FBI (Dept of 'Justice') set up their own 'Viper Militia' in AZ a few years ago, as another kind of COINTELPRO operation.

This 'Aryan Republican Army' from the Pentagon source sounds like it may be another contrived 'Viper Militia' aimed at destroying the militia movement?

We could even have a separate forum on suppressed info about Columbine! Where does it end?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by defender on 05-13-2001]

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David
Chemtrail Information Agent


1290 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-13-2001 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't count on Skolnick, I have contacted him about reading the info on this site and taking a part by doing an article. No response, not a good subject. Call the Pres a murderer and thief but ignore chemtrails. About right.

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-13-2001 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never heard that David, never know. One thing I'm sure about is that McVeigh didn't act alone. The spin looks like it may be aimed at reviving the hunt for militias. TPTB may use this as an excuse for more paramilitary $$$ and crackdown on 2nd Ammendment supporters?

But the good news I think is that this shows there are whistleblowers in the FBI. Also that there were something like reports from 41 different FBI offices among the documents that TPTB tried to suppress. So the suppression may come from that relatively small group of the powers that suck in the 'justice' dept.

Unanswered Questions in the OKCity Bombing;
http://apfn.org/THEWINDS/archive/war/a121296c.html

* Was a single bomb responsible for the enormous damage to the steel reinforced building?

* Were agents of the ATF who worked in the building forewarned not to report to work that morning?

* Was the Oklahoma City Fire Department given advance warning of a terrorist attack immediately before the explosion?

* Why were Bomb Squad Units seen in the immediate vicinity of the Federal Building just prior to the blast?

* Why did officials ignore a very explicit warning of the bombing given to them by a federal informant?

* Why was the Federal Building so hurriedly destroyed and the site bull- dozed, before a complete independent investigation could be conducted?

*Single bomb theory: Brigadier General Breton K. Partin (USAF, retired) states, "From all the evidence I have seen in the published material, I can say with a high level of confidence that the damage pattern on the reinforced concrete superstructure could not possibly have been attained from the single truck bomb."

In a 23-page report on the bomb damage, Partin asserts that there is "irrefutable evidence that at least four demolition charges were set off at four critical columns of the reinforced concrete structure."

The first video pictures of the disaster show two large plumes of smoke, one rising from the crater area in the street, the other coming from the center of the federal building. Two separate and independent seismograph records both show two events (blasts) occurred, separated by a 10-second interval.

* ATF agents forewarned: Oklahoma City television station KFOR conducted interviews with three witnesses, all of whom attested that ATF agents admitted to them to being tipped in advance to the bombing; they had been warned on their pagers not to come in to work that day.

* Fire Department forewarned: the grandfather of two of the children killed in the blast had heard reports of FBI advance warning to the Oklahoma City Fire Department. He approached the Assistant Chief who denied the report. The man walked down the hall to the office of the chief dispatcher asking the same question. This time the answer was "YES," they had received a message from the FBI on the Friday before the bombing that they should be on alert. When told of the Assistant Chief's denial of the report, the dispatcher responded, "I'm not going to lie for anybody, a lot of people don't want to get involved in this." The matter could be cleared up easily by checking the radio logs for that time period, but the department claims that the tapes for that date had "accidentally" been recorded over.

* Bomb Squad's early arrival: several credible witnesses report seeing bomb squad units in the immediate area of the Federal Building prior to the explosion.

* Informants warning ignored: a Federal informant delivered a very specific warning to U.S. Justice Department officials just days prior to the deadly bombing. The handwritten letter says, "After leaving Denver for what I thought would be a long time, I returned last night because I have specific information that within two weeks a federal building is to be bombed....I would not ignore this specific request for you, personally, to contact me immediately regarding a plot to blow up a federal building." After the bombing took place, a representative from the Justice Department stated that they did not, and still do not, consider the informant to be credible.

* Federal building destroyed and site dozed: contrary to the practices of preserving evidence at the crime scene, officials have leveled the building and dozed the site, thereby effectively destroying critical evidence. (Quotes from the "New American").

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-17-2001 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The media sure is tight-lipped about the survivors lawsuit against the federal government alleging knowledge of the bombing prior to the date and time of the explosion!

1. The Federal Emergency Management Agency's report, Building Performance: Oklahoma City Bombing. This report stated the building damage is equivalent to denotation of 4,000 lbs. TNT (which is equivalent to about 14,920 lbs. Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil [ANFO]). This is more than three times the figure given by the FBI for Tim McVeigh's Truck- Bomb (FBI's figure: 4,800 lbs. ANFO).

==========
The focus of this report is on the nine-story portion of the Murrah Building, which incurred significant damage and partial collapse as a result of the April 19, 1995, bombing. The blast was equivalent to the detonation of approximately 4,000 pounds of TNT.

(Downloaded from FEMA web site - http://www.fema.gov/mit/bpat/bpat009.htm)
==========

Bomb ANFO
----------------------------------------------------
4,000 pounds TNT bomb = 14,920 pounds ANFO
----------------------------------------------------

Therefore, there must had been another bomb detonation, and its explosive power should be equivalent to 10,000 lbs. of Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil (ANFO).

2. Brigadier General Benton K. Partin (USAF, ret.), former director of the Air Force Armament Technology Laboratory and one of the world's premier explosives and ordnance authorities, found that the ANFO truck-bomb would not be sufficient to achieve the damage observed at the OKC Bombing. He says that demolition charges had to be placed on the columns--and, sure enough, one was found that failed to go off. Furthermore, the dynamite had been found on the side of column.

3. News reports:

According to CNN video-tape on April 19, 95 report, the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Department claims that the large bomb Squad truck with trailer, which was used later that day to remove the unexploded bombs found inside the Murrah Building was outside prior to the bombing because a deputy was using it for "routine errands."

KFOR-TV in Oklahoma City reported that two or more of the bombs found inside were "far larger in magnitude than the first that went off inside the building" (remember that seismic readings measured two blasts). A terrorist expert, Dr. Randall Heather, then spoke, saying, "We have both of the bombs that were defuse at the site and they are being taken apart."

The above two information have proven the existence of other unexploded bombs. However, these unexploded bombs existence have been denied and never mentioned in the trial of OKC Bombing Trial.

Another conspiracy is that some of the LEO knew about the bombing in advance.

(attachment) "Did US Government Know of Oklahoma Bombing in Advance?" by Ian
Goddard _Nexus_ Dec. 1996/Jan 1997 (p. 7)
==========
1. The Portland newspaper the OREGONIAN (20 April '95) stated that Judge Wayne Alley, whose office is right across from the Murrah building, was warned several days prior to the blast by "security specialists" to take "special Precautions". This story has never resurfaced.

2. USA Today (20 April '95) reported that Harvy Weathers, of the Oklahoma City Fire Dept., said that the fire department had received a call from the FBI prior to the bombing, stating that there would be some people entering the city over the weekend". Weathers didn't explain what this meant, but obviously an arm of FBI were to enter the city, at least after the bombing later the next week, to destroy and fabricate evidence. So the question is, how the FBI know this beforehand?

3. Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key has said" that he knows of two witnesses who overheard ATF employees stated that they were warned not come to work the day. Key also points out that bomb squad employees were seen in front of the building at 7:15 am, about two hours prior to the blast. Rep. Key has conducted his own investigation and was so shocked with the evidence he uncovered that he has complied it into a video presentation.
==========

ABC's 20/20 (1/17/97) interviewed eyewitness who saw Oklahoma City Bomb Squad Truck across the street of the Murrah Federal Building shortly before the explosion.

20/20 established, contrary to official denials, that the Oklahoma City Fire Department received a call from the FBI five days before the bombing (04/14/95) warning them that "there were some people coming through town they should be on the look out for."

Perhaps most shocking, the 20/20 investigation discovered that someone had called the Executive Secretariat's Office at the Justice Department in Washington D.C. to report the Murrah Building bombing 24 minutes before the blast. 20/20 quoted on screen the official government document reading:

The Department of Justice ... received a telephone call ... twenty-four minutes prior to the bombing... The caller said, "The federal building in Oklahoma City has just been bombed."

20/20 anchor Tom Jarrel then noted that "no action was apparently taken" by the Justice Department in response to that strange emergency call minutes before the blast.

4. The second blast reading (recorded at the Omniplex Science Museum and Oklahoma Geological Survey Station). The second reading must be caused by another bomb and this fits the facts contained in FEMA's report.

5. Comparing with the tactics of invisible personnel (involved LEO & operatives of surveillance station/system) and the result of who has the most to gain from the OKC Bombing with logical deduction.

Comparing with above information, it has shown that involved law enforcement officers were involved in OKC Bombing deeply.

The following report on the OKC bombing lawsuits have shown the victims (& their relatives) of the Bombing do believe that some federal agencies are responsible for the death and injuries (caused by the bombing).

According to news report, two lawsuits have been filed against federal agencies on the behalf of bombing victims for failing to give warning to victims of the bombing.

In the first lawsuit, attorney Richard Bieder will represent at least 44 victims to sue federal agencies (see detail on CNN news report attachment below).

In the second lawsuit, filed in the District Court of Oklahoma County (4/18/97), O.J. Simpson's defense lawyer Johnnie Cochran will represent over 300 people who suffered losses in the bombing. According to the Associated Press report, more than 300 people joined the lawsuit against the government Agencies.

(attachment) 7 May 98 on CNN Internet Web site
==========
May 7, 1998 Web posted at: 9:22 p.m. EDT (0122 GMT)

Lawyer: Federal agencies to face lawsuit over OKC bombing

OKLAHOMA CITY (CNN) -- Dozens of victims and survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing plan to file a $3.2 billion lawsuit against five federal agencies for their alleged negligence in not preventing the attack, their attorney said.

The suit will be filed sometime during May in U.S. District Court in Washington, according to David Autry, one of the lawyers representing the plaintiffs.

The lawsuit will contend that the federal government, through informants, should have had enough notice to take more security measures that could have prevented the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

The FBI; Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms; General Services Administration; U.S. Marshal's Service; and Federal Protective Service will be named as defendants in the suit, and the $3.2 billion damage claim would give about $20 million to each of the 170 plaintiffs.

The bombing killed 168 people and injured another 500 people.
http://cnn.com/US/9805/07/briefs.pm/okc.bomb.lawsuit/index.html

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-17-2001 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Questions About John Doe 2 Linger:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010517/aponline151822_000.htm

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RidesTheWind
visionary


The Void
1359 posts, Feb 2001

posted 05-17-2001 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RidesTheWind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There's a whole section on the bombing towards the end of this article...Enjoy !! http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/
NAZNWO43.TXT

Check back later when I get the link working.


[Edited 2 times, lastly by RidesTheWind on 05-17-2001]

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nsasucks
Chemtrails suck - alot!

Earth
530 posts, Jan 2001

posted 05-18-2001 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nsasucks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a link for you regarding McVeigh, West, and the CIA and the MKultra program.


Clockwork Orange CareerMind Control
MKULTRA, Louis Jolyon West - "Joly West"

A Clockwork Orange Career
Source: Freedom Magazine http://www.freedommag.org
The maestro of "mind-control" continues to haunt America
Articles in this edition describe some of the life-destroying effects of
psychiatry's primary therapies - drugs and electric shock. The following
presents one of their chief advocates - Louis Jolyon West, director of the
UCLA
Neuropsychiatric Institute until his resignation following exposure of
possible
violations of federal law regarding use of government funds.
In a lawsuit currently before the Los Angeles Superior Court, it has come
to
light that the University of California at Los Angeles and UCLA Medical
Center
have, since the early 1980s, attempted to remove psychiatrist Louis Jolyon
West
from the roster of the university's faculty.
One psychiatric colleague who asked to go unnamed described West as
"supremely
arrogant" and charged that he "misused his positions for his own ends," at
the
expense of the university.
Many will not find such statements surprising, considering West himself,
whose
history includes controversial LSD experiments for the Central Intelligence
Agency and even more controversial plans to construct secret installations
for
the "study" and modification - by electric shock, chemical castration and
other
means - of the behavior of citizens, particularly minorities.
Indeed, any discussion of CIA "mind-control" endeavors, such as the
infamous
MK-Ultra, would be incomplete without West, who has, according to
information
provided to Freedom, enjoyed a long and lucrative career in this field.
Although
he has sometimes posed as a civil libertarian, he has not sought to expose
dangers of intelligence agency "mind-control" techniques, but rather to
secretly
perfect its use on others.
In a document released under the Freedom of Information Act, for example,
it was
revealed that more than four decades ago, the CIA sought to set West up in
a
clandestine laboratory to perform "mind-control" experiments with hypnosis
and
LSD. A portion of the experiments with LSD and other drugs in which West
was
enmeshed at the CIA's behest were exposed in the mid-1970s by the U.S.
Senate
Select Committee on Intelligence, chaired by Senator Frank Church.
West contributed to the early work which resulted in, among other things,
the
death of tennis pro Harold Blauer in an experiment with a mescaline
derivative
in New York City in 1953. The Senate Select Committee's investigation
revealed
drugging of unsuspecting targets, electric shocking to obliterate memory
and
"programming" individuals to kill - acting under psychiatric control.
West's career highlights included injecting a 7,000-pound bull elephant,
Tusko,
with an overwhelming dose of LSD - roughly 1,435 times the quantity, in
West's
own words, one would have given to a human "to produce for several hours a
marked mental disturbance." Not surprisingly, the elephant collapsed in
agony
minutes later and died.
West had ingested the mind-altering substance himself shortly before
killing
Tusko, the prize of the Oklahoma City Zoo, and was evidently still under
its
influence at the time he sloshed through the beast's entrails, performing
an
"autopsy" which he recorded on film. He later issued a report to advance
his
"discovery" that elephants could be killed with LSD and to promote use of
the
drug to cull elephant herds in Africa.
Prisons as Laboratories
"Jolly" West moved on, changing his base of operations from Oklahoma to Los
Angeles. In keeping with intelligence proposals to utilize prisons as
experimental laboratories, he drafted a plan to use electric shock and
drugs on
state inmates in what was called "aversion therapy."
In the 1960s, West could also be found in the Haight-Ashbury section of San
Francisco, conducting more LSD experiments, this time within the hippie
community.
A pet project of West's in the late 1960s and early 1970s was the Center
for the
Study and Reduction of Violence. He proposed to establish a "securely
fenced"
center at a remote, abandoned Nike missile base in the Santa Monica
Mountains,
in keeping with earlier plans by the CIA to set up "mind-control" stations
off
the beaten path, where experimentation could be carried out free from such
concerns as human rights. Ironically, West embarked on a PR campaign to
promote
himself as a champion of "human rights" - an effort that would be comical
if not
for the bottom line in terms of human suffering.
West's plans for such centers were the subject of hearings by the U.S.
Senate
Committee on the Judiciary in 1974, chaired by Senator Sam Ervin, whose
members
were alarmed at reports that West planned to test radical forms of behavior
modification - mind-bending drugs, electric shock, implantation of
electrodes in
the brain and forcible castration with the drug cyproterone acetate.
Critics
charged that his violence centers would target blacks and Mexican-Americans
in
its studies.
Other sites selected for West's violence centers in California were
Vacaville,
Camarillo and Atascadero state hospitals. It has been documented that CIA
drug
and radiation experiments did take place at Vacaville.
Yet another study that West called for was clearly aimed at intelligence
agency
application: remote monitoring and behavioral control. His plan was to use
electric shock and other means to remotely control human behavior by
computer.
Tight-Lipped
Many millions more poured into the controversial UCLA Neuropsychiatric
Institute
that West headed, including over $14 million in federal funds in one fiscal
year
before he stepped down.
West remains tight-lipped about these and other experiments and activities
which
are under examination by Freedom. Walter Bowart, author of Operation Mind
Control, described West as "perhaps the chief advocate of mind control in
America today. From his participation in the development of brainwashing
techniques for the U.S. Air Force to his involvement in the CIA 's famous
MK-Ultra projects, West has figured so prominently in the research and
development of the invisible war1 that his public career appears like a
carefully constructed espionage 'cover.'"
Between 1974 and 1989, West received at least $5,110,099 in grants from the
federal government, channeled through the National Institute of Mental
Health
(NIMH), a major funding conduit for CIA programs. Many millions more poured
into
the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute that West headed, including over $14
million
in federal funds in one fiscal year before he stepped down.
West has continued to advocate psychiatric drugs to treat virtually
everything,
holding that "clinging to the drug-free state of mind" is an "antiquated
position for anyone." Indeed, the unspoken thrust behind his career has
been the
control of individuals and whole populations through covert means.
Cattle Prod Therapy
Between 1974 and 1989, West received at least $5,110,099 in grants from the
federal government, channeled through the National Institute of Mental
Health
(NIMH) a major funding conduit for CIA programs.
Before stepping down as director of the Neuropsychiatric Institute, West
reportedly allowed psychiatric "treatments" that were more suited to
brainwashing, "mind control" or a torture chamber than for resolving mental
troubles. It was reported in 1976, for example, that Neuropsychiatric
Institute
psychiatrist Ivar Lovass had used electric cattle prods for "aversion
therapy"
on children.
As one newspaper stated at the time, "Farrell Instruments Company, the same
firm
which supplies other shocking equipment for UCLA's 'Clockwork Orange'
experiments on 3- to 12-year-old boys ... recognizes that aversion therapy
techniques are often cruel. An example, the company says, 'is the use of
cattle
prods which have high voltage that produces skin destruction.' Dr. Lovass
and
his partner in psychiatry, Dr. George Reker, however, favor the use of -
and
have used - cattle prods on children who are not mentally ill or criminal
or who
have not violated any law or rule - young boys merely thought to be
'effeminate.'"
Lovass - hired by West - also allegedly shocked 5-year-old twins to
"modify"
behavior, with jolts administered through a grid system in the floor that
enabled the psychiatrists to blast the children wherever they moved in the
room.

Despite the violence that marked the work of West and his cohorts, or
perhaps
because of it, he enjoyed influence in the psychiatric community, serving
for
example on the National Advisory Council to the NIMH. From his positions,
he
could have charted a far more humane and helpful course for mental health,
rather than brain-damaging drugs and electric shock.
As part of his legacy, the NIMH continues to squander billions in taxpayer
dollars to fund research on brain-damaging substances, rather than genuine
cures. The true cost - impossible to measure in money - lies in the
Americans
now dead from psychiatric drugs and electric shock or, still living,
existing as
little more than vegetables.
The secrecy and false information that for decades cloaked West's
activities
continue to shroud the effects of the treatments he promoted and which are
still
in use. And today, the living hell that Melissa Holliday experienced still
exists for nameless others you probably won't read about in the press.


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