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Topic: Mars Moons, Phobos and Deimos, VANISHED! | Topic page views:
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KnewEyes
watcher

under those cloud-like things 665 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 04:53 PM
Better get this posted before it is sanitized from the web, I had a hard time finding info I had read in the recent past on this subject, and feel lucky to find this lone remaining article: Phobos and Deimos Have Vanished Update #5 – Has NASA Betrayed Us? YOWUSA.COM, September 5, 2001 Steve Russell With the latest speculation that Phobos and Deimos have vanished, it is critical that someone comes forward with new observation data. With the recent global dust storm on Mars, and the increasing sightings of rare meteor events here on Earth, the sense of urgency for closure is being reinforced. Above all others, NASA has the assets to resolve this issue quickly and decisively. Yet, it hides in the shadows. Looking at the history of NASA's busted theories and the virtual Mars imagery monopoly they’ve granted to Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), it becomes apparent why they have their heads in the sand – politics and funding. If future events prove this to be so, then they’ve betrayed American taxpayers who have generously funded their programs, and who rightfully depend on all agencies of their government to protect them from harm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A Precedent Is Set As most readers will be aware, YOWUSA has been trying to solve the mystery surrounding the fate of comet 76P and its effects (if any) it had on the moons of Mars for some time now.
So far, the prevailing theory has been that 76P had either significantly disturbed the orbit of Phobos, or collided with it. Therefore, our efforts have focused on obtaining either a good quality image of Phobos from a reliable source, or data indicating that 76P was indeed where it should it have been after passing Mars. With two avenues to pursue, one could not be blamed for thinking this was going to be easy. However, earlier this year NASA set the scene for a trend that would continue until this day. YOWUSA, June 8, 2001 76P Update -- NASA Refuses To Substantiate Hubble Sighting As to the comet itself, the Hubble Space Telescope (HST) team informally reported a 76P sighting on April 12, 2001 to Dr. Brian Marsden, Associate Director of the Smithsonian Astrophysics Observatories. The data provided is insufficient to validate the HST sighting, so Marsden immediately asked the HST team to provide him with raw data from the April 12 sighting, in addition to requesting additional recovery sightings of 76P as well. The HST team refused both requests. It is only in recent times that several images have become known. Two of these have already been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be untrustworthy. The other, taken by Australian Steve Massey, is the best and only evidence to date that conclusively proves that Deimos was still orbiting Mars prior to the Mars Global Super Storm. At least that's what we thought. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One Step Forward, Two Steps Back During our search for a recent image of Phobos, we came across Steve Massey's fantastic image of Deimos from the night of June 17th 2001, just days before the Mars Global Super Storm began on June 27 2001.
As a result of many thorough discussions with Steve, we found his genuine character and willingness to provide information to be of great help in confirming the authenticity of his observation. This level of cooperation is something yet to be seen from authorities and those that have provided other, more suspicious images. Since receiving this image, YOWUSA's Glen Deen has trying to verify the safe existence of the Martian moons, and to his credit, he has published his findings in great detail. Despite nearly optimum viewing conditions during his 3 observation attempts, he was not able to observe either Phobos or Deimos. This is very troubling because he was able to observe field stars in the same areas as the moons that are dimmer than either Phobos or Deimos. Once again, we must state that Glen's failed attempts do not necessarily mean that either moon has been destroyed. However, for argument's sake, we must ask what evidence can be found to indicate that such a catastrophe could have occurred between Steve Massey's June 17 observation and the beginning of Glen Deen's observations starting on August 14. A possible answer to our search may be the violent dust storm currently raging on Mars. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mars Global Super Storm On June 27 2001, a violent dust storm exploded from the Hellas Basin region of Mars. It rapidly became a global catastrophe, raising temperatures by a whopping 30 degrees Celsius and increasing the favorable requirements for liquid water to exist. Such an event has not been seen since the Mariner 9 spacecraft arrived at Mars in 1971, and this super storm only lasted for one month. The current super storm is now 2 months old, and it is still going strong! The MSSS images show a very red, dusty and warmer Mars that has resulted from this storm. However, the true severity of the storm is hard to tell because it appears to be off the charts.
This very unusual and unprecedented event occurred after Steve Massey's observation and before Glen Deen's failed observations. This forced us to ponder the possibility of an impact event. Given Glen's failed attempts at reconfirming the whereabouts of Deimos, the possiblity that this moon may have caused the storm, has now become a reasonable concern.
A further reason for that concern is that NASA and their educated associates do not have a clear idea as to what caused this remarkable storm. But one thing is for certain; they are not particulary interested in understanding why. Or, they are truly interested an want to play the story down. Nonethelesss, the possibility of an impact event being the cause of the present super storm on Mars cannot, and should not be ignored. The reason we believe it could have been Deimos is Steve Massey's observation of that moon before the Mars super storm, combined with Glen's three unsuccessful attempts to observe the moon with a 24” Cassegrain telescope. However, it is also possible that a large, but ordinary meteorite or several smaller ones caused the storm. The theory favored by NASA on the other hand, blames the current super storm on Mars on planetary events, while ignoring any possiblity of an impact event. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NASA Theory NASA has been examining dust storms on Mars since Mariner 9, and they still have not determined the true cause of these events. Science@NASA, July 16, 2001 Planet Gobbling Dust Storms No one knows exactly how Martian dust storms grow to such proportions. Says Christensen: "One theory holds that airborne dust particles absorb sunlight and warm the Martian atmosphere in their vicinity. Warm pockets of air rush toward colder regions and generate winds. Strong winds lift more dust off the ground, which further heats the atmosphere." It's a positive feedback loop that can transform tiny dust clouds into globe-swallowing storms. A problem with this scenario is that it sounds like a slowly developing method. It does not sufficiently explain how a storm can explode as rapidly as the latest evidence shows. Science@NASA, July 16, 2001 Planet Gobbling Dust Storms Continued... The ultimate energy source for Martian dust storms is sunlight. For that reason the dusty season on Mars begins each year near perihelion, the planet's closest approach to the Sun. Mars will be at perihelion on October 12, 2001. "The biggest dust storms don't usually begin until one or two months after perihelion," notes Christensen. "This one coming so early in the season makes me think Mars is heading for a spell of big dust storms." Christensen admits that this theory predicts large storms around December, not six months earlier in June! Instead of admitting that this fact indicates that their theory could be wrong, he instead predicts more violent storms. Thankfully, this will be something we can easily test by watching and waiting. Science@NASA, July 16, 2001 Planet Gobbling Dust Storms Continued... "Big events tend to last for weeks or months," says Christensen. "In fact, we're not certain what makes them stop." This statement only strengthens our point that NASA's theories on this matter are not sufficient and should be considered as only one possibility, not fact. Science@NASA, July 16, 2001 Planet Gobbling Dust Storms Continued... Indeed, it could be just the first of a series. "Energy in the atmosphere from one storm makes it easier for the next dust storm to begin," Christensen explains. Again, this prediction is something that can be easily tested by watching and waiting. NASA's evidence indicates that dust storms are highly variable from year to year. In contrast to that, Earth’s weather as violent as it is, remains relatively predictable. The severity of natural disasters may be increasing from year to year due to global warming factors, but it is a relatively predictable trend. The atmosphere on Mars may only be 1 percent of Earth's, but that does not necessarily mean it should be less stable or predictable. This comparison points to two obvious flaws in NASA’s theories: NASA’s Theories are Earth-centric: NASA is applying Earth logic to a Mars problem. In a similar vein, drug companies equate lab rats and humans which helps to explain why so many Americans die each year from violent drug reactions. Maybe there is some truth in the statement, “Mars is Mars and the Earth is the Earth.” NASA Speaks For Everyone On The Planet: Right up front, NASA’s position is that “No one knows exactly how Martian dust storms grow to such proportions.” Perhaps they should have picked up the phone and called their friends in Russia before jumping the gun on this one. A powerful and logical alternative theory to NASA’s theories comes from the Russian Academy of Sciences Institute for Dynamics of Geospheres. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alternative Theory YOWUSA’s concern that this storm was caused by some kind of violent impact were again confirmed after a quick search of the web, is supported by a respected Russian institute.
Russian Academy of Sciences Institute for Dynamics of Geospheres Light Flashes, Dust Clouds, and Electric Discharges Caused By Meteoroid Impacts Onto Mars A meteoroid impacting into the rarefied Martian atmosphere penetrates much deeper than into the more dense Earths atmosphere. The meteoroids with the size above 1m as a rule hit the Martian surface [1], while for the Earth they usually "explode" in the air at altitude of about 25-30 km or so [2]. Meteoroids with the size of about 0.1-1 m typically "explode" above the Martian surface, but these explosions create intense blast waves and light flashes with luminous efficiency higher than at the Earth [3]. Combined effects of light impulse, shock waves and cratering cause mobilization of dust [4]. The impulsive formation of dust clouds may even trigger the local Martian storms [4] in addition to the dust devils [5]. These processes were studied by numerical simulations using 3D SOVA Code [6] and laboratory experiments. It is important to note that the Russians are not alone. On this side of the world, a similar theory has been put forward by Dr Tom Van Flandern. Earth Changes TV, August 8, 2001 Consortium of Scientist Coming Together to Discuss Mars/Asteroid Dr. Tom Van Flandren, former lead astronomer at the Naval Observatory and NASA contractor, stated for the first time publicly he believes the cause of last months huge dust storm which surrounded the whole planet of Mars, "was most likely caused by an asteroid hit." Now a group of astronomers are coming together to discuss this very real scenario. In several of the Thermal Emission Spectrometer (TES) images, star patterns can be seen that could indicate large sudden impact events. These stars appear in the same region where the storm erupted. The star patterns show a very cold central interior that progressively gets hotter and dustier in the outer region. This pattern is what you could expect after an impact throws up the heated dust and rock into the atmosphere, leaving a cold interior that eventually warms again as the dust settles down. Given that at this stage NASA still seems to be puzzled, any theory such as the one proposed by Russia and Dr. Van Flandern is acceptable and should be up for consideration. However, the chances are slim that this theory will be seriously considered by NASA and their associates. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Malin's Monopoly of Mars Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) has secured virtually all of the Mars imaging market. Surely Malin is not the only living image expert in the world. Nor is he the only one with the ability to control a spacecraft, but this tiny contracting company appears to have a virtual monopoly on Mars imagery, which means that Malin's theories are always center stage. Below is a staggering list of NASA projects that MSSS has been involved with since its inception in 1990. Current Projects Mars Global Surveyor MOC 2001 Mars Odyssey Orbiter Visible Imager for THEMIS Mars Global Surveyor Thermal Emission Spectrometer Team Mars Surveyor Athena Rover Team Mars Data Analysis Program Past Projects Mars Observer MOC Mars Climate Orbiter MARCI Mars Polar Lander MARDI Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander Descent Imager Mars Pathfinder Science Team Malin also likes to flaunt his monopolistic over Mars imagery every now and then (“It’s good to be the King.”) Just look at Richard Hoagland’s web site to see what Malin has done with the images of the Face. Hoagland clearly shows how Malin has been responsible for deceiving the public with seriously degraded and distorted images, and is also marketing his theory that it is not a face. If Malin does have a monopoly Mars imagery, is it because he is the only skilled person in the world? Or, is he simply a competent scientist who sold out to the national security folks; who are the tail that wags NASA’s dog? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Political Control The latest declassified government material shows that historically, secret political interests have consistently triumphed over science. Wired News, August 22, 2001 Why JFK Stressed Moon Race BOSTON -- When U.S. President John F. Kennedy met with U.S. space officials in 1962, he bluntly told them scientific advances came second to the political benefits of landing on the moon ahead of the Russians, according to an audio tape released on Wednesday by the late president's library. Perhaps this precedence for politics controlling space funding and ideals has carried through to this new era of space exploration. Looking back at NASA's latest water on Mars discoveries, we can see a questionable set of events in which NASA has refused to acknowledge the facts, going as far back as 1976, that water and life indeed survive on Mars today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Water = Life = NASA May Be Wrong Dr. Gilbert Levin of Biospherics Incorporated, and his son Dr. Ron Levin of MIT's Lincoln Laboratory had satisfactorily proven (for the second time) back in 1998 that liquid water exists on Mars. Dr Gilbert Levin and Dr Ron Levin, 1998 Liquid water and life on Mars Many objections have been raised to challenge a biological interpretation of the 1976 Viking Mission Labeled Release (LR) life detection experiment on Mars. Over the years, they have dwindled in the face of the failure of experiments and theories to demonstrate a nonbiological alternative. Recently, NASA's chief scientist, responding to the rapidly accumulating knowledge about life in extreme environments, reduced the remaining obstacles to a single one: the lack of liquid water. A model for the diurnal presence of precipitable micron amounts of liquid water over large areas of Mars is presented… The last objection to a biological interpretation of the LR Mars data is thus met. Despite the positive results of original tests for life on Mars from 1976, NASA quickly labelled it a mistake and refused to acknowledge that life had been found on Mars. Twenty-two years later, the father-son Levin team had proven yet again the success of the original Viking mission, this time with the help of new data from the Mars Pathfinder mission. Yet NASA did not yet accept the finding that water, and thus life, could exist on Mars. Why? Perhaps NASA was just following recommendations to withhold confirmation of water and life until they deemed the public could handle such a revelation. Alternatively, perhaps they planned to withhold the information until it could be used to their political advantage. In mid 2000, they finally acknowledged the fact of water on Mars. More importantly, news agencies reported it using all sorts of contrived-sounding comments expressing surprise from the MSSS team. YOWUSA, July 8, 2000 Is the Water on Mars Just A Cover Story? Co-discoverer Ken Edgett said, "That really bothers me… I was dragged kicking and screaming to this conclusion". Co-discoverer Michael Malin said, "We were quite surprised and confused by it, because in fact it doesn't really fit our models of what Mars is like". In NASA's press release, "What is odd about these gullies is that they occur where you might not expect them…" Co-discoverer Michael Malin said that the evidence presents a "perplexing problem". Publicly, MSSS and NASA was the last to admit that liquid water exists. Since their final say on the subject was the most recent and globally reported, from a public relations point of view, they take all the credit. We have conducted exhaustive searches, and have found no public documents in which NASA or MSSS give sufficient credit to those such as the Levin team who were truly the first to discover water and life on Mars. But, this is not the first time for NASA and Levin. Lighting strikes in this case, which addresses the issue of life on Mars. CNN, September 4, 2001 For Mars pro-life camp, an unlikely ally NASA has posted on the Internet the results of an experiment that tested positive for life on Mars, despite having given little credence to the research for decades. The unexpected action comes in the wake of renewed interest in the findings of planetary researcher Gilbert Levin, sparked by a recent re-examination of his data that detected more tantalizing hints of life on Mars. An experiment conducted by twin Viking rovers at the behest of Levin in the 1970s offered evidence of microbes on the red planet. But other experiments tested negative and most scientists dismissed his results as the work of some unknown chemical reaction. Months ago, however, Levin's experiment received a major boost when microbiologist Joe Miller announced that he had detected a circadian or daily rhythm in the readings, consistent with what one would expect if life as we know it were present. Most scientists, including the top brass at NASA, thought the original results were false positives. But weeks ago, in large part because of Miller's work, Levin's data wound up on a public NASA Web site to give researchers a chance to sift through the exhausting collection for themselves. The $1 billion Viking mission placed the most powerful landers ever on the surface of Mars in 1976. In Levin's so-called Labeled Release (LR) experiment, the Viking probes placed nutrients in Mars dirt samples and detected gas releases consistent with the metabolism of microorganisms. As previously indicated in this article, the political relationship between NASA and MSSS has monopolized the Mars imaging industry and claimed major scientific discoveries for themselves in an unscientific manner. This appears to have resulted in: At least two proven cases where a NASA-dominated theory was widely accepted without sufficient analysis of alternative theories. An imaging contracting company that only spends taxpayer money on publicly requested images and keeps them secreted away from the public that funded their acquisition, until people like Richard Hoagland spend years gathering sufficient public support to demand their release. With this in mind, will we ever see new photographs of Phobos, Deimos, or the Hellas Basin region of Mars that would prove both the 76P and impact causing dust storms theories incorrect? If our speculation on the fate of Phobos and Deimos is wrong, then we shall breathe a sigh of relief and move on. But to do this, we need more sound data. Until we receive more sound, provable data, we must continually ponder the possibility that we could be right. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What If We Are Right? What continues to worry us is that those in control can easily prove us wrong, yet they do not. Why do they not work to try to disprove our claims? Could it be because, God forbid, our claims may be right?
Years of past experience has shown us that heavy ridicule from those officials that should have more important things to do, generally means we are on the right track and stepping on some seriously large toes. This is why we cannot let this matter rest until we can encourage someone to prove us wrong. And, we so dearly want to be wrong. What worries us more than wasted public funds is the possibility that we could, in fact, be right. Because if we are, then the current news reports could represent increasing signs of an impending global catastrophe that will cause more than just dust storms here on Earth. Space.Com, July 6, 2000 Streaking Meteor Causes Rare Phenomenon Greg Hammer and a friend were camping recently near the Colorado town of Fairplay, watching satellites flit across the dark sky when -- bam! -- night turned to day. A large fireball lit up the night as it raced northward, turning from white to cobalt before exploding in a shower of sparks. Although the rock broke up miles above in the atmosphere, the computer analyst said he simultaneously heard at least seven seconds of sound as he watched the rock tumble and break up. YOWUSA, July 30, 2001 Meteor Madness Inside the Pentagon, a CNN Military Affairs Correspondent glanced westward out the office window and was stunned by a bright flash as a huge fireball entered our atmosphere and headed toward Earth. "It got brighter and brighter. Halfway up in the sky, it sort of evaporated into a bright flash", he reported. Several sonic booms were later heard. The explosions violently shook houses, rattling books and dishes off their shelves. Windows were also shattered, but luckily, nobody was seriously injured. This rapid series of events was witnessed by hundreds of people from locations such as Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York and even Canada. Space.Com, August 30, 2001 Bright, Booming Meteor Vanishes in Colorado Mountains The fireball earlier this month impressed those who witnessed it. "It was so bright, I could see into the neighbor's yard," Mike Valdez of Monte Vista, Co., told the AP. "It was 10 times brighter than the Moon." Valdez said that he first saw a bright white light from the fireball, which sprayed red fragments as it went by, and then heard a low rumble. It is true that many meteors enter our atmosphere every day and they should not be considered as any kind of sign that an alarming trend is occurring. When a meteor is seen over a populated area, authorities are very quick to point this fact out to calm the public. However, given the current global super storm on Mars, and other recent strange occurrences like the disintegration of comet S4 Linear, perhaps we should be taking a closer look at our recent major meteor activity. The world’s landmasses cover a mere 29% of the planetary surface. We inhabit only a small percentage of this land with places like central South America, Africa and Australia being void of any large populations. Therefore, any significant meteor event that is witnessed by hundreds of people in a large city is considered a rare event. We have now had two of these large events in only two months. The latest in Colorado being almost an exact repeat of an event nearly a year ago when 76P was first suspected to Impact Phobos. What are the odds of these latest sightings being just an extremely rare coincidence? When will we get honest answers to the questions posed in this series of articles, and from whom? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Answers Are Urgently Needed! NASA and MSSS currently have both the MGS and 2001 Odyssey spacecraft at their disposal to take whatever images they feel are necessary to obtain.
Since the MGS is in its final days and needs to spend fuel wisely, turning to image the moons would be out of the question. Instead, it could be looking in the Hellas Basin region of Mars to scour for recent impact events. The Odyssey could safely be used to capture an image of both moons with little effort. In its preoccupation with gee-whiz space exploration designed to keep their funding on track, NASA has abandoned the principal reason for governments – protection. What a sad fate it would be for us to awaken one morning to the news that NASA has been asleep at the switch, and that people who should not have to die, will, in fact, needlessly suffer pain and death. Let us pray that this document does serve notice to future generations that NASA has betrayed its fundamental responsibility of honouring the public’s trust. http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/September2001/marsmoons5/marsmoons5.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 05:44 PM
I've been trying to keep a close eye on this story, Kneweyes. Of partictular interest is the possible correlation of the Areceibo response to this development. If you take a look at the differences between the original message and the response, you may notice something interesting in the solar sytem section...Allright, I'm outta here. If 3T3 catches me in here spouting psuedoscience, I'm cooked! 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 07:08 PM
Prepare to be boarded and moved to someplace else. Gotta go to dinner, so I shall address this later.  3T3L1 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 07:21 PM
Damnit. See what you've done KnewEyes? It took her exactly 88 mins. to catch on to us. No rest for the wicked, eh 3T3?Well, guess I'll see you over in 'Other Trails', KnewEyes...  
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KnewEyes
watcher

under those cloud-like things 665 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 07:51 PM
Whoops,, Sorry bout that Chem11, didn't want to git you in any trouble! This story has been bothering me since first read it, and I wish so much I was cutting and pasting it here when I did read it all in the recent past. I wonder what it was that made the 2 moons just disappear from existance. All I know is,its gotta be something big.
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Delphi
Mystic Warrior

S. Bossier, Louisiana 1583 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 08:59 PM
Kneweyes, So true...Somethin big...and I hope it's not coming our way! Love, Joanne ^j^  
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 09:13 PM
Thanks, Thermit. Now that this is in the PROPER venue, may I ask a question? How do you know that Deimos and Phobos are missing?
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KnewEyes
watcher

under those cloud-like things 665 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 09:33 PM
I was reading at "Surfing the Apocolypse" oh,,, about a month and a half ago, and came across the article that Phobos and Deimos, were not spotted while they should have been because other smaller stars next to them were observed still intact, ones that were much harder to spot than the 2 moons that are now gone. There were about 5 different articles all stating the same thing, No astronomer was able to find the moons with their telescopes , that in the past had no trouble spotting. This aslo coincides with the massive dust storms on Mars back in late June. Well, seems it got to the point where the astronomers were becoming anxious, because nobody higer up was saying anything about it, especially to state they were wrong,,, that the moons were still there. The Moons are gone. Thats a fact.(from what I understand) 
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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 11:04 PM
If you really think the two moons have disappeared, you might try contacting the amateur astronomers at the Mars Group of A.L.P.O. I think they would know if something had happened. http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/alpo/mars.html 
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KnewEyes
watcher

under those cloud-like things 665 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 11:05 PM
ANOTHER thing I read, at one of these sites, where the disappearing articles seem to happen at, was.. that all this crap that we are experiencing now, with the WTC, and WW111 is really just a distraction,,, from the real threat of the passing of Nibiru and the coming catalysis of the earth. That article is also gone. Heres something interesting form Renses site: Jeb Declared Martial Law In FL On 9-7 Dubya's Obscure 'Goat Story' From William william@isis.ocn.ne.jp 9-23-1Just some quick facts (no rumors what-so-ever) concerning the Bush family brothers, Governor "Jeb" of Florida and President "G.W." of Washington City, with regards to the events of 9-11: On Friday, September 7, "Jeb" signed Florida Executive Order No. 01-261 which states, in part: "I hereby delegate to The Adjutant General of the State of Florida all necessary authority, within approved budgetary appropriations or grants, to order members of the Florida National Guard into active service, as defined by Section 250.27, Florida Statutes, for the purpose of training to support law-enforcement personnel and emergency-management personnel in the event of civil disturbances or natural disasters and to provide training support to law-enforcement personnel and community-based organizations relating to counter drug operations. This Executive Order shall remain in full force and effect until the earlier of its revocation or June 30, 2003." This Fla. EO places the Florida National Guard (which is not a lawful militia), a unit of the Federal U.S. Army, in control of all Florida law enforcement (State FDLE, County Sheriffs, and local PD's) and the Florida Emergency Management department (Florida's FEMA under federal FEMA control). Remember, this was 4 days before the WTC disaster. On the morning of Tuesday, September 11, Pres. "G.W." was in a Sarasota, Florida classroom reading a story about a pet goat when his Chief of Staff whispered in his ear about the WTC "terrorism". Rather than attend to this national disaster, "G.W." continues to read the goat story to these second grade children and then, 30 minutes later, makes a brief statement to the press. More about this odd behavior and "The Obscure Goat Story" can be read at http://209.123.142.199/lawgiver/9 11.asp Governor "Jeb" then signed Florida Executive Order No. 01-262 immediately after the second WTC tower fell. Florida was the first STATE to declare a "State of Emergency" and did so before New York State or the Federal Washington City leaders did, yet there were no "terroristic" incidents that had taken place. Florida EO 01-262 states, in part: "I hereby declare that a state of emergency exists in the State of Florida... The authority to suspend the effect of any statute or rule governing the conduct of state business, and the further authority to suspend the effect of any order or rule of any governmental entity... The authority to seize and utilize any and all real or personal property as needed to meet this emergency... The authority to order the evacuation of any or all persons from any location in the State of Florida, and the authority to regulate the movement of any or all persons to or from any location in the State; The authority to regulate the return of the evacuees to their home communities... I hereby order the Adjutant General to activate the Florida National Guard for the duration of this emergency." There is no declared expiration of this Florida Executive Order. In case you haven't figured it out yet, Florida is now under martial law and will remain so until this EO is revoked. We tried to warn the people of Florida about this in 1998 when our State Constitution was changed in order to allow this to take place, but no-one listened. See "Martial Law Now Legal in Florida" at http://209.123.142.199/lawgi ver/flaconst.asp ). If you plan on vacationing in Florida, remember that you have entered a Martial Law State under the control of the Washington City "brothers" and federal troops. It looks far too much like 1865 is a realistic "deja vu". The Obscure Goat Story Of 9-11 http://209.123.142.199/lawgiver/9 11.asp It is very important to examine the first reactions President Bush had concerning the events of September 11. You can tell much about the truth by observing the reactions of men. Human nature is almost always the best truth detector and said to be the most accurate lie detector. One of the basic instructions taught to every U.S. military and civilian police trainee is to "watch and observe". Let's observe what really took place before these headline stories are buried in a sea of obscurity. "In Sarasota, Florida, Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading. He addressed the tragedy about a half-hour later. " - Associated Press, September 12, 2001 "President Bush listened to 18 Booker Elementary School second-graders read a story about a girl's pet goat Tuesday before he spoke briefly and somberly about the terrorist attacks." - Sarasota Herald-Tribune, Page A20, September 12, 2001 President Bush became briefly somber and continued reading a story about a goat for nearly another half hour. He didn't politely excuse himself to the children, but rather, temporarily stopped reading only to continue on as if nothing had happened. Is this how you - or anyone around you at the time - reacted when you first heard the news of the WTC tragedy? At the very least, one would think that Bush would have spent a minute or two being properly briefed by his trusted Chief of Staff before finishing his reading of a goat story. If this was new news to him, one would surely think that he would immediately want to know more details. Does anyone else see that this "Presidential" reaction was out of place and doesn't fit the circumstances? His reaction seems to imply that this was not fresh news to him, but more of a confirmation of what he might have already known about. Watch and observe. In human nature, this kind of reaction - in reality, a non-reaction - usually comes about when the hearer either already has knowledge of what he was just told, or he doesn't have any concern over what he was just told. Some have already said that Bush didn't want to upset the children as an excuse for his continuing to read the goat story. Wouldn't one have to believe that these 7 year old children were already upset and nervous about having the President read a story with them in their classroom? A simple and polite "Children, I'm sorry I can't read with you any longer. As the President, sometimes my schedule changes quickly, but I want to thank you for allowing me to join you in reading this story" would have been fitting. The problem is that's not what happened. Watch and observe. It struck us odd that both the above newspaper articles (as well as many others) stressed the word somber in describing the President's first as well as delayed reactions. That seemed normal enough at first, but then we decided to find out what a somber reaction and manner of speech really is. Watch and observe. somber / sombre.* French sombre ; Spanish sombra , shade, prob. from LL. subumbrare to put in the shade; Latin sub under + umbra shade. See Umbrage. umbrage.* French ombrage , shade, suspicion, umbrage. Latin umbraticus , belonging to shade, French umbra, a shade. Cf. Umber, Umbratic. 1. Shade; shadow; obscurity; hence, that which affords a shade, as a screen of trees or foliage. 2. Shadowy resemblance; shadow. Of or pertaining to the shade or darkness; shadowy; unreal; secluded; retired. darkness.** Absence of light; black hole; dark star; dark matter, cold dark matter. Occultation, adumbration, obumbration; sunless, lightless; dark as pitch, dark as a pit, dark as Erebus[Lat]. somber, dusky; unilluminated... * Webster's Dictionary, 1913 ** Roget's Thesaurus, 1911, search results for "somber" Now it appears that the somber reaction of President Bush is perhaps more revealing than at first glimpse. If the President "briefly turned somber" and "spoke briefly and somberly about the terrorist attacks," then the reporters were describing both his demeanor and speech as being shadowy, obscure, dark, unreal, without light, and suspicious. Was this a mistaken word of description, or were they accurately reporting what they saw and observed? These newspaper reports are describing the character and demeanor of the President as dark, black, and lightless when Andrew Card told him about the WTC disaster. They did not describe him as becoming sorrowful or concerned, nor even that he appeared upset. They deliberately chose the word somber to relay to their readers how President Bush appeared. Watch and observe. The reporters also used the same word somber to describe his manner of speech after having had 30 minutes to (perhaps) compose himself from such tragic news. His manner of speech, nearly a half hour later, was portrayed with the same descriptions of obscurity, being void of light, suspicious, unrealistic, and shadowy. This is not the depiction of a man who is upset, worried, or concerned about a grave tragedy. Watch and observe. When one learns of tragic news at the first hearing, his reaction is always described with characteristic words such as shocked, dismayed, worried, awe, sadness, or upset. This describes how all of us reacted when we first heard the news of the WTC disaster... that is, all of us except President Bush, according to the reporters who were watching and observing him. When one hears of tragic news after he was told it would - or most likely would - take place, his reaction is described with characteristic words such as disappointed, angry, remorseful, or somber. Watch and observe. Either the Sarasota, Florida newspaper and AP reporters were both wrong in choosing the word somber, or the President just may have been showing us that he knew what was to happen before he read the goat story to a class of 7 year old children. Either way, be it irresponsible reporting or an irresponsible President, this is a tragedy in and of itself. However, it's hard to believe that two or more witnesses separately chose the character word somber by mistake. The worst thing we can do is to react to the events of September 11 without watching and observing first, as this is our first defense against possible deception. Human reactions are great lie detectors simply for the fact that they are very difficult to hide. The lies that may surround the WTC disaster must be exposed. Truth appears to have already been the first casualty before any airplane was hijacked.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-23-2001 11:52 PM
I got "Page Not Found" on your URLs, Knew Eyes. Do you have any alternative ones?Regarding Nabiru--has someone actually observed this object? From our discussion in the chat room, I realized that if these astronomical phenomena are really happening, the world's amateur astronomers would be on them in a flash. The only "pay" (besides seeing the glory of the night skies) that you get for amateur astronomy is fame, and there are people out there every night of the world, scanning every corner of the heavens just so they can get their names on the latest celestial anomaly. They are deadly serious and are to be found everywhere from a driveway in Cloudcroft, New Mexico, to the light-polluted skies of Japan. They might conceivably have overlooked something, but a little thing like a NASA coverup would not be the reason these phenomena have not been observed and reported. 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 12:22 AM
As I understand it, Planet X (Niburu) has been verified through radio astronomy, and it's gravitational effects on objects within it's projected path have been observed.However, astronomers have a tradition of not declaring the existance of a planetary body until a visual sighting is made. This apparently has yet to occur. It is theorized that planet X follows a far- flung elliptical orbit that makes determining it's exact location problematic. Aside from historical and ancient references in Sumerian and Bablonyian texts to this '12th planet', this is the sum total of my knowledge on the subject. 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 12:28 AM
Washington Post: Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered, a front page story 31-Dec-1983 A heavenly body possibly as large as the giant planet Jupiter and possibly so close to Earth that it would be part of this solar system has been found in the direction of the constellation Orion by an orbiting telescope aboard the U.S. infrared astronomical satellite. So mysterious is the object that astronomers do not know if it is a planet, a giant comet, a nearby "protostar" that never got hot enough to become a star, a distant galaxy so young that it is still in the process of forming its first stars or a galaxy so shrouded in dust that none of the light cast by its stars ever gets through. "All I can tell you is that we don't know what it is," Dr. Gerry Neugebauer, IRAS chief scientist for California's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and director of the Palomar Observatory for the California Institute of Technology said in an interview. The most fascinating explanation of this mystery body, which is so cold it casts no light and has never been seen by optical telescopes on Earth or in space, is that it is a giant gaseous planet, as large as Jupiter and as close to Earth as 50 billion miles. While that may seem like a great distance in earthbound terms, it is a stone's throw in cosmological terms, so close in fact that it would be the nearest heavenly body to Earth beyond the outermost planet Pluto. "If it is really that close, it would be a part of our solar system," said Dr. James Houck of Cornell University's Center for Radio Physics and Space Research and a member of the IRAS science team. "If it is that close, I don't know how the world's planetary scientists would even begin to classify it." The mystery body was seen twice by the infrared satellite as it scanned the northern sky from last January to November, when the satellite ran out of the supercold helium that allowed its telescope to see the coldest bodies in the heavens. The second observation took place six months after the first and suggested the mystery body had not moved from its spot in the sky near the western edge of the constellation Orion in that time. "This suggests it's not a comet because a comet would not be as large as the one we've observed and a comet would probably have moved," Houck said. "A planet may have moved if it were as close as 50 billion miles but it could still be a more distant planet and not have moved in six months time. Whatever it is, Houck said, the mystery body is so cold its temperature is no more than 40 degrees above "absolute" zero, which is 459 degrees Fahrenheit below zero. The telescope aboard IRAS is cooled so low and is so sensitive it can "see" objects in the heavens that are only 20 degrees above absolute zero. When IRAS scientists first saw the mystery body and calculated that it could be as close as 50 billion miles, there was some speculation that it might be moving toward Earth. "It's not incoming mail," Cal Tech's Neugebauer said. "I want to douse that idea with as much cold water as I can."

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KnewEyes
watcher

under those cloud-like things 665 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 08:37 AM
Found some more info at cyber space orbit. Seems to be the only site that still has the phobos/deimos disappearance info on it. http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/ Hope these work for you Chem11... http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/August2001/Phobos_and_Deimos_Have_Vanishe/phobos_and_deimos_have_vanishe.htm http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/August2001/The_Phobos_Mystery_Continues/the_phobos_mystery_continues.htm

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Duncan Kunz
Senior Member
582 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 09-24-2001 11:53 AM
Dear Colleagues:Astronomy, unlike other scientific endeavors, has a very blurry line between amateurs and professionals. This is because much of the real work is done by amateur astronomers, using their own telescopes, virtual observatories, Internet-driven observatories all over the world, computer-generated ephemerides, etc. Best of all, the professional astronomers know this, and there is no "arrogance" among the NASA and University boys 'n' girls - they know that, for example, over 90 percent of comet discoveries have been made by amateurs, and that they (the professionals) would be lost without the amateurs' efforts. The reason that I'm going into these details is to emphasize that there is an ongoing communication among amateur and professional astronomers unlike anyplace else. Whatever the professionals know, the amateurs know within a day - and vice versa. I am an amateur astronomer, although I claim no special expertise. I have an 8" SC telescope, and I mostly play with it, although I do some stuff with science camps for the local schools. I am a member of both the East Valley Astronomy Club and the Flandreau Planetarium Society in Tucson. Again, this doesn't make me an expert, but I want you to understand that I'm at least plugged in -- a little -- to what's going on in astronomy. And what's going on in astronomy regarding the Deimos/Phobos disappearance? Nothing. No one has reported anything missing from the vicinity of Mars, outside of planetary visibility due to the recent dust storm. (Now, admittedly the present dust storm is a big muther, but Mars often gets big muther dust storms.) While it's true that no one has printed an article saying, in effect, "Hey! I found Deimos last night!", you wouldn't expect that - any more than you would expect me to come running in and say, "Hey! I went out into my driveway this morning, and you know what? My Honda Civic's still there!" In other words, since none of the amateur or professional journals have even heard of the disappearance, they haven't tried to "debunk" the story - because as far as they're concerned, there is no story to debunk. Yet I'm pretty sure that, over the past six to eight weeks, at least fifty university or government telescopes (and probably some big amateur ones, too, like a 24" dobsonian-mount in New Mexico or Utah or even Arizona) have been used to look at Mars, seen Deimos or Phobos, noted it to themselves or the other astronomer next to him ("hey, Susie, I can see Diemos here; wanna look?") and went on with their bidness. The only place I've seen any stories about Deimos and Phobos being missing aren't even astronomy magazines; they're more like checkout-counter tabloids. Anyway, here's the search I made last night and this morning, along with the results. All the searches were through the Internet, except for the "Sky and Telescope" search, which was the magazines themselves (I have a subscription): "Sky and Telescope" Magazine (US) Sep 2001 nothing Oct 2001 nothing Nov 2001 nothing
"Astronomy Now" Magazine (UK) Oct 2001 nothing "Breaking News" from "Astronomy Now Online" nothing "The Astronomer" (UK) "Breaking news" from "The Astronomer Online" for past three months nothing "SkyNews" (Can) Sep-Oct 2001 article on Martian dust storm, but no comment on Phobos/Deimos "Astronomy Ireland" (Ireland) Website Sep 2001 nothing "Astronomy and Space" (Ireland) Sep-Oct 2001 nothing "Ceska astronomicka spolecnost" (Czech Astronomical Society) (Czech Republic) nothing "StarDate Online" (US) Sep-Oct nothing Bottom line: I wouldn't get exercised by the Deimos/Phobos "Mystery"; there doesn't seem to be anything to it. Regards, ------------------ Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 09-24-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 12:07 PM
Amen. Everything Duncan says is true.I, too, have an 8" Schmidt-Cassegrain, but mine is seldom used these days. I don't belong to the South Plains Astronomy Club anymore, and I don't have a subscription to Sky and Telescope anymore, but I have enough amateur astronomy experience to know that what Duncan has written can be taken to the bank. If Deimos and Phobos were missing, we'd know about it. Please try to worry about something else, okay? 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 12:26 PM
I like worrying 3T3. It's my hobby.Granted the idea seems preposterous, but in all fairness, we have heard about it. Hence this discussion. Now, I'm no astronomer, amateur or other wise, but it seems to me that that it shouldn't be difficult to photograph either of these celestial objects and confirm their continued visibility. 
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amber
UK ENVOY

uk 445 posts, May 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 12:28 PM
quote:'Of partictular interest is the possible correlation of the Areceibo response to this development. If you take a look at the differences between the original message and the response, you may notice something interesting in the solar sytem section...' Chem...dare i ask what did you mean...?

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts

Lubbock, Texas 1347 posts, Mar 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 01:39 PM
How hard could it be to take a picture of a tiny moon near a bright planet? Remember that Deimos and Phobos are so dim, you won't be able to see them in your telescope. You'll have to align the telescope to where you think they are. Remember that Deimos and Phobos are very close to Mars, and spend almost no time visually separated from Mars. Your ephemerides will have to be exactly correct and you will have to be prepared to take your picture at exactly the optimal viewing time. Before you do, remember that, because these objects are so dim, to have the object visible on film, you will need to have your camera's shutter open for 10 or so minutes. Even if you manage to avoid kicking the telescope's tripod during that time, remember that the earth is rotating, and your camera will have to rotate in exactly the opposite direction to keep the light from the satellite focused on the same spot on your film. But remember to track your picture against Mars, not against the background stars, or there will still be streaking. And remember not to have Mars itself in the field, or its brightness will wash out the dim signal from Deimos and/or Phobos. Finally, be sure to remember that because of your telescope's idiosyncratic optics, right and left, up and down, north and south may or may not be reversed from what you see in a star chart. So if you've miscalculated the putative position of the moon you're looking for, you'll probably end up with a nice picture of background stars.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 09-24-2001] 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-24-2001 02:09 PM
Well ,now that you've explained the intricacies of amateur astrnomy (twice), I feel a bit better about amatuer astronomers having difficulty getting a bead on these two moons.I wish I could find a grahical representation of what I'm describing, Amber, but my connection is running at a snail's pace today for some reason. I'll try later, but what I was getting at was a possible messge within the Areceibo response relating to Phobos and Deimos. Or more succinctly, relating to 'fear' and 'panic'. 
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David
Chemtrail Information Agent
1290 posts, Oct 2000
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posted 09-25-2001 02:12 AM
[
[Edited 1 times, lastly by David on 09-25-2001] 
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amber
UK ENVOY

uk 445 posts, May 2001
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posted 09-25-2001 04:44 AM
In a crop circle magazine i found an article that gave lexigrams for crop circle formation names - sort of like anagrams...but with an intuitive aspect. So i decided to lexigram the last big formation the Chilbolton arecibo formation...I have emailed the author of the original article with my findings....what do you think?"Hi Carol, Can I first of all say how much i enjoyed your article 'Interstella Communications' in issue 43 of the Circular ) I too read Linda Goodman's 'Star Signs', many years ago. Inspired by your article I revisited lexigrams - and tried this one - 'CHILBOLTON ARECIBO MESSAGE' These are just some of the results: HEAR THIS MESSAGE HEAR THIS LAST MESSAGE THE SIGNS ARE IN THE STARS A CHILLING MASSACRE IN THE AIR A CHILLING MASSACRE IN THE CENTRES BOMBS IN THE CENTRES SEEN ON BBC A GREAT TOLL AT THE CENTRES RAINING ASHES NO REMAINS, MOST LOST, MOST MISSING TOMBS IN ASHES ASHES IN THE AIR SATAN SEEN IN THE BOMBS GREAT RAGE, GREAT TEARS DO NOT REACT IN RAGE...CAGE THE RAGE MIGHT IS NOT RIGHT IN THE LAST TIMES, ONE NOTE, ONE TONE IN THE LAST TIMES, SIGNS IN THE STARS NO MORE REAL CIRCLES THIS IS THE LAST ONE HEAR THE MESSAGE STONES IN TEARS SIGNS ON MARS*** MARS HAS A GREAT STORM*** MARS HAS NO MORE MOONS*** MARS MOONS ARE GONE*** THE MESSIAH IS COMING*** EIGHT? TEN? And that was just for starters!!!!!!!! What do you think Carol? Regards, amber 
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amber
UK ENVOY

uk 445 posts, May 2001
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posted 09-25-2001 04:50 AM
ACTUALLY I HAVE JUST REALISED ...IT ALSO CONTAINS THE WORDS BIOLOGICAL AND CHEMICAL BOMBS GLOBAL TEARS...GLOBAL MASSACRE...GLOBAL TOLL 
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Chem11
megasprayer news

The Homeland 1366 posts, Apr 2001
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posted 09-25-2001 04:37 PM
Amber, could you explain to me the method used to obtain a 'lexigram' of a crop glyph? I hadn't considered the possibility of interpreting these formations as a 'probe-able' ideogram and I find the concept truly compelling. Thanks in advance!
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amber
UK ENVOY

uk 445 posts, May 2001
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posted 09-26-2001 05:20 AM
Chem...Lexigrams are from Linda Goodman's book ' star signs'....It takes anagrams a stage further...to 'reveal and penetrate mysteries'...to uncover higher knowledge and wisdom. You start with the anagram of a word, place name, event or phrase and then use your intuition to find the hidden meaning. List all the words contained within the word or phrase...then use your intuition to put short phrases or sentences together.you can use a letter twice bit not in the same word you shouldn't lexigram a word or phrse with more than 15 different letters - sometimes it is permissable. some examples: Dipomacy - Mad Policy HMS Pinafore - the name of a ship republican - incurable clan democrat- rated comic south - so hot north - not hot armageddon - mad god near violent - no love Crop circles are given particular names, or are referred to by the place they were found. The formation above as you know, was called the Chilbolton Arecibo Message...so that's what I lexigrammed...Working on it again last night I found the words...Carl Sagan!!!!See? Meaningful phrases!! 
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