posted 12-10-2001 10:29 AM            

" Within one year and three months of today's date, everything that you have printed out about contrails (and most of what I have as well) will no longer apply, and will be completely moot."

If I'm correct the date would be
03 - 09 - 03

posted 12-10-2001 12:07 PM            

Where do I begin?

1. As far as I know, neither Chem11 or I have ever said that you directly accused our friend of being a child molester, you did it indirectly through a comparison as you well know.

2. Where did you come up with these ideas that I have attacked the Luthern faith in any way!? (or the Christian faith for that matter!!?). I've defended Christianity and pointed out instances of attacks against it by the elements you seem so set on protecting! (for the record, I am a Christian, as I've stated in earlier posts). In fact, I've never even seen, (let alone written), anything about the Luthern faith here until you used it in a gutless lying attack against me on 12/8!

3. Never, in any way have I suggested that I supported the Masons, other than I've met a couple of them and didn't consider them evil, or that I was a part of their 'religion'. On the contrary, you are apparently showing support for them by not discussing the issue in any way, or even answering simple questions, other than to try to falsely accuse myself and others of supporting it. You know full well why I'm bringing a focus on Masonry. There is clearly Masonic influence (good and bad?) at high levels of government that needs to be examined. I didn't start out to prove anything about Masons. The more I looked, the more I found. I didn't invent those websites! I'm still looking and still posting information for people to decide for themselves. You're posts indicate you are very interested yourself, though the most you will say is that you think it's a religion, or that it's my religion!? You are an out and out liar 'duncan kunz'.

4. Nazis!? You are an out and out liar on all these points. Accusing me of being a Nazi! If anything, you have shown yourself to be a fascist (Nazi) by your blind support of a governmental structure you either don't understand and/or refuse to examine. If you're referring to my attempts to show the Palestinian side in Israel conflict, that does not make me a Nazi. If anything, IMO, Israel has adopted Naxi/fascist tactics in their methods of state-sponsored terrorism against a mostly civilian population that the Israelis themselves have turned into refugees. I've also mentioned documented proof, that has not even been denied, that Israeli fundamentalist/radicals assassinated Yitzak Rabin, their own Prime Minister, to destroy peace talks with Arafat.

In fact I've made at least dozens of posts pointing out Operation Paperclip, (transfer of Nazi SS personnel into U.S. space program and CIA), mind control and possible Nazi influence in CIA/OSS. I've also attempted to show everyone how fascism (like Nazism) has crept into our lives via Mass Media propaganda, governmental cover-ups and assassinations. BTW, I'm also not a socialist or communist (or an anti-capitalist) as has been suggested once (that I know of) by one of these CON-trail artists!! I want the U.S. to be returned to us as a true democracy! That can't happen until and unless we address these issues.

To ignore these things, IMO is suicidal to all of us as a nation. Things are happening in our world that are not being addressed. To continue efforts at 'debunking' and covering up research to get at the truth (as you are), is criminal, especially when using your totally unethical and under-handed techniques that are becoming more and more clear every time you make a response or attack. When directly confronted, you resort to outright lies and lame attempts to label myself and others as Nazis, against Lutherns(?!), and in one mans case, a child molester.

The proof is in the posts, anyone can look back at the archives and judge for themselves as I've said following other blind attacks against me by you and at least one other of you gutless 'debunker' lemmings.

posted 12-11-2001 05:29 AM            

I'm curious, what do you all think you are accomplishing by flaming each other?

It seems a bit defeatist to me. When you expend this kind of energy on bashing each other, you are doing nothing for your cause, whatever it may be. But you are making yourselves look bad. And you all are losing credibilty. Is that what you want?

And don't bother flaming me, cause I still don't care. And before someone says that if I don't care, why do I post, let me say this. I feel that I have seen some valid points coming from all sides in a lot of this issues that turn into flamefests and I am just forced to wonder why you set out to destroy your credibilty by bickering. And no, I'm not singling anyone out in this. Individually, not a one of you is solely important enough to single out. But if you all would just work together on those things you agree one, you could get so much more done.

posted 12-11-2001 09:41 AM            

Sure, I love to expound.

Actually, when I said "within one year and three months of today's date", I was just pulling a number out of my head. I figure that between a year and a year-and-a-half from now, significant interest in contrails, which I see as getting less and less "airplay", will be gone.

If you look at just the "chemtrails" page on this board (ignoring stuff like "other trails"), you've probably noticed that the biggest single thread (by a factor of five) is merely versification with a lot of flashing lights and MIDI overlays. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I think it's indicative of the wandering from the point of a website whose motto is "...Searching for Answers in the Chemtrail Issue".

Similarly, the ninety comments on the thread marked "Paranoid Rantings of a Chemtrail Conspiracist", don't really deal with chemtrails per se either. And, of course, there're all the issues dealing with the sun rising in the wrong place or being the wrong color, or being two suns, etc. Again, nothing wrong with that; I am sure a lot of people enjoy reading it. Fascinating stuff, but hardly what I'd consider "...Searching for Answers in the Chemtrail Issue."

If you look at most of the chemtrail-boards, you may well notice that much of the ongoing communications deal with Afghanistan, religious arcana, more and more stuff about masons, Cydonia, numerology, etc. Compare this with the paucity of serious discussion on the "Science" room.

In other words, absent any recent serious investigation to chemtrails (many of us had hoped that Mr. Thermit's work would spark a renascence of sound research) and the relative lack of interest into 3T3L1's hard work in determining distances accurately, there simply hasn't been any work done here.

Despite the efforts of people like Thermit and 3T3L1 (who really want to get to the bottom of the controversy) and other, more 'famous' individuals (who see an ongoing interest in chemtrails as a bread-and-butter issue for audience share), the emphasis on chemtrails as a phenomenon, the detailed reporting of activities with the goal of determining correlation, any activism to outside sources, etc., seem to be undergoing a sea-change.

Regards,

Duncan Kunz

posted 12-11-2001 12:53 PM            

I just purchased my 17th and FINAL
Off The Wall calendar for 2002. That's
all the gloom and doom I can take.
Can't imagine facing the day without
The Far Side. I'm ready to revolt.

Our atmosphere is so polluted the
the sun must shine thru a continuous haze ......rain clouds come and go
without leaving a drop of rain.....
what's causing this?

Weather modification is not a myth it's
a fact. The contrails/chemtrails must
be a consideration. How does one
get to the truth considering there is
so much classified information?

The mucky particles floating about the
sky are caused by what ?
I've noticed a burning intensity from the
sun on cool day's as if the ray's are
magnified thru the partial matter.

I'm not a chemtrail activist. I'm more of
a lurker than a poster - just looking for
answers. I have graditude towards
the people spending their time and
effort seeking answers on our behalf.

There are other things to consider too.
Look at Davids post - I think it's titled
"No they wouldn't do this to us".

I don't think this issue will go away.

posted 12-11-2001 01:50 PM            

"Thank's for the reply. I'm glad you were not giving us an ominous masonic message for the year 2003."

No ominous messages from me! I'm not even a Mason (although my late father was).

I just purchased my 17th and FINAL Off The Wall calendar for 2002. That's all the gloom and doom I can take. Can't imagine facing the day without The Far Side. I'm ready to revolt.

Ready to revolt? That's a coincidence; lot of people here think I'm already pretty revolting LOL.

"Our atmosphere is so polluted the the sun must shine thru a continuous haze ......rain clouds come and go without leaving a drop of rain..... what's causing this?"

I don't think anyone, debunker or no, would disagree with the statement that contrails can be the catalyst for subsequent cloud formation.

The ice crystals forming from high amounts of exhausted water vapor mixed with minute particles of combustion byproducts and metal particulates from normal engine wear and tear can and do act as "seeds" around which ambient moisture can condense to either water droplets or ice particles.

I (and I assume most of you) have seen clouds forming from contrails all the time. But this does not mean that there is some sort of toxic 'spray' in the contrails; ambient water vapor, especially in a low-temperature, high-relative humidity regime, will form easily around almost anything.

One very real concern is that the increased cloud cover will block solar radiation during the day and reflected heat from the earth at night. Thus, we could see a smaller diurnal/nocturnal temperature delta (difference) as the increasing amount of air traffic leads to increasing contrail formation. Could this have a deleterious effect on the weather and possibly climate? Possibly; I think this is a valid concern that needs to be investigated and, if necessary, addressed.

"Weather modification is not a myth it's a fact. The contrails/chemtrails must be a consideration."

True. Our technology has given us the ability to not only predict weather but to change it. We can seed clouds deliberately, and our increasing air pollution, including that caused by aircraft contrails, has the potential to change both weather and climate.

"How does one get to the truth considering there is so much classified information?"

One doesn't - at least not with any accuracy. If there is a classified government program, you will have four kinds of folks:

(1) The ones who don't know;
(2) The ones who do know but won't tell (since they've taken an oath to keep the classified information classified);
(3) The ones who do know and then tell, and then are prosecuted by the government for security violations; and
(4) The ones that don't know but make stuff up.

One of the interesting things about all these "exposés" we read about on the Internet is that none of these people who "come out with the truth" are ever prosecuted by the government or TPTB. I would think that the reason that these same folks can tell their stories month after month and year after year - without having the Guys in the White Van come by one night at midnight -- is because either the government wants the truth to come out -- or that the government doesn't care what these people say because they don't know the truth (whatever the "truth" is).

Well, if it is a plot, wouldn't the government be really really upset at all these stories by the so-called insiders? Yet you don't hear about Rense or Cuppett or Thomas suddenly disappearing and found floating face downward in the Chesapeake Bay! Why not? I would think that if the government is powerful enough to pull off a huge plot, it'd also be powerful enough to kill off anyone trying to blow the whistle on them.

"The mucky particles floating about the sky are caused by what?"

Beats me. It could be pollution from nearby or ten thousand miles away. Or it could be something else. You've probably heard how dust from a dust-storm in the Gobi Desert showed up all over the USA within a matter of weeks - the Jet Stream's pretty powerful).

"I've noticed a burning intensity from the sun on cool day's as if the ray's are magnified thru the partial matter."

Lot of people have reported that recently. Here in Mesa, we had our hottest November on record - and our records go back over a hundred years. Despite our technology, we still don't know very much about climatic cycles and epicycles. We may be going through an every-two-hundred-years temperature rise - or we may not. No one knows for sure.

"I'm not a chemtrail activist ... just looking for answers. I have graditude towards the people spending their time and effort seeking answers on our behalf."

So do I. But I differentiate between people looking for answers and people who claim that they have the answers and that anyone who disagrees with that answer is a doofus.

"There are other things to consider too. Look at Davids post - I think it's titled "No they wouldn't do this to us"."

I'll be the first to admit that the government - that all governments - has a history of pulling tricks on their subjects/citizens. With that much power, you can bet on it. But saying that because the government did experiments on people in the past, they are doing this particular thing right now doesn't follow. The government supported chattel slavery in the 1800s, locked up a presidential candidate for sedition in 1918, and sent American citizens with names like Nakamura and Kobayashi to prison camps in 1942 and 1943, too; but that doesn't mean that they're doing it now.

I think anyone that trusts everything the government does is an idiot, but I also think that assuming the government is doing a particular Bad Thing because it did a different Bad Thing before does not make any logical sense.

"I don't think this issue will go away."

Ecclesiastes 1:2-11.

Regards,

posted 12-11-2001 02:49 PM            

(.... still no answers or explanations from kunz in regards to his lying accusations... Thermit... Do you stand by those false accusations too? You and the other moderators must know they are false. When have I ever expressed anything about the Luthern religion (to take one example)? or the other false accusations he has made? Is it okay for you to let this phony get away with this? Your silence on the subject gives support to his lies.)

Regarding the '11' phenomenon.

___________________________________________

WTC Facts:

* The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11.

* Each building had 110 stories. 10 x 11 = 110

* After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.

* September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11.

* 119 is the area code for Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11, 911 - 119 are opposites - enemies? 11 11 polarity.

* Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11.

* The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11.

* State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union.

* "New York City" has 11 letters.

* "Afghanistan" - 11 letters.

* "The Pentagon" - 11 letters.

* "Ramzi Yousef" - 11 letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993).

* Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11.

* Flight 11 had 11 crew members onboard.

* Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11. 11 x 7 = 77.

Flight 11, 93, 175, 77 - If these numbers are broken down, 11 actually remains the same in numerology, 93 becomes 12, 175 becomes 13 and 77 becomes 14. 11 - 12 - 13 - 14 Broken down again and you have
2 - 3 = 4 - 5. Add them all up and break them all down!

11 + 93 + 175 + 77 = 356 = 14 = 5
11 + 12 + 13 + 14 = 50 = 5
2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = 14 = 5

555 ft = 6660 inches.

Twin Towers =11 + Flight 11 + September, 11th = 33

posted 12-11-2001 03:31 PM            

quote:

---

Thermit... Do you stand by those false accusations too? You and the other moderators must know they are false. When have I ever expressed anything about the Luthern religion? or the other false accusations he has made? Is it okay for you to let this phony get away with this? Your silence on the subject gives support to his lies.)

---

posted 12-11-2001 03:41 PM            

If not you, why not one of the moderators? IMO that would put an end to the flame-fests. Nip the perpertrator at the beginning and kill the war from the outset by naming the instigator? Maybe a designated moderator to enforce fairplay? Maybe that's what you had in mind when you added moderators. Kunz makes these false accusations blatantly and still remains here because he sucks up to you? Tell me that's not the case. I know you've blocked, exiled previous crooks like this, why not kunz? I'm really curious as to why you let this go on.

posted 12-11-2001 03:42 PM            

Harry Potter = 11

...coinciding with release of "Ocean's 11"?

Remember that Harry Potter has been heavily criticised by Christian groups as promoting witchcraft/satanism to kids.

Why the huge media blitz on the Harry Potter books, paraphernalia and movie since it came out? It costs a lot of money for all of those media blitz promotions. Who paid for it? Who else other than the obvious parties wants it to be so successful?

BTW, these 'media blitzes' are a form of mind control they call 'advertising'. They promote something over and over and over until it's stamped in your brain, so you remember it whether you want to or not. That's how they 'sell' you on some product or idea.

Few people ever question why some movies are promoted so much. They never consider the possiblity that the promoters have an agenda that only begins with the promotion of that movie or book. They will pay as much as necessary to make it part of "Americana" or the American psyhe as they would like it to be.

It's like ratings or polls. The power elite, or TPTB can manipulate them anyway they want to convince a target audience that they too, should support or vote the way 'everyone' else does.

BTW, my posting of subjects related to Masons and numerology is no indication that I am part of a religion as kunz keeps promoting. Far from it. I'm trying, (as most people know), to show that there is validity in some of these topics and they deserve closer scrutiny. That's the exact opposite of what this 'duncan kunz' is trying to mislead members into thinking.

How can you possibly explain away or I should say, debunk, over 80 NASA launches that were determined, planned and executed precisely every time by the position of the same stars. It's mathematically impossible for that to happen by coinincidence as are other examples that are connected in some way to FreeMasonry.

Kunz does this by ignoring it and slinging mud at me and other members he decides to attack. An ethical person would examine the information on it's merits instead of trying to kill the messenger because the subject matter upsets them.

posted 12-11-2001 09:08 PM            

I am sure that there is nothing wrong with you believing about the Masons and the XI's and the Space Program tied into the secret star locations or whatever. And Harry Potter and Oceans XI and all that other stuff, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people agreed with you. I'm just glad ol' Moses got down from the Mountain without picking up the XIth Commandment; that would've had some serious ramifications.

And if that helps you in your belief about contrails, so be it.

But I still think you need to calm down. We only have one life to live.

(riding off into the sunset, at XI miles an hour, singing "kumbayah"...)

Regards,

posted 12-11-2001 09:24 PM            

Don't tell me you've gotten Defender and myself somehow confused in that crazy, mixed-up mind of yours?

posted 12-12-2001 01:12 AM            

Get your act together, Kunz. I know that the blatantly obvious often confuses you, but this is hardly atmospheric science.

Absolutely disgusted... but nice about it,

posted 12-12-2001 08:26 AM            

I was responding to defender, but I guess you were on my mind. I know, there are differences between you two.

posted 12-12-2001 03:46 PM            

The following words of a modern day
philosopher come to mind. There's
no subtle poetic meaning here......
just the facts.

"YOU SIMPLY MUST TAKE IN EVERYTHING REGARDLESS OF THE SOURCE, WEED THROUGH THE SHIT, TAKE OUT THE SHIT AND THEN SMOKE THE WEED!"   Mario Borsellino 8/4/99

The above statement holds endless
applications ..... I love it !!

Duncan said:

"One of the interesting things about all these "exposés" we read about on the Internet is that none of these people who "come out with the truth" are ever prosecuted by the government or TPTB. I would think that the reason that these same folks can tell their stories month after month and year after year - without having the Guys in the White Van come by one night at midnight -- is because either the government wants the truth to come out -- or that the government doesn't care what these people say because they don't know the truth (whatever the "truth" is)."

posted 12-12-2001 03:52 PM            

"You in the Jungle, Baby!"