posted 11-01-2001 02:00 PM            

Here's one for those poor souls that believe in only a dead and godless universe. Sceptic, still out there?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_1627000/1627662.stm

quote:

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Heart patients 'benefit from prayer'

Research shows prayer has a beneficial effect

Patients admitted to hospital with heart problems suffer fewer complications if someone prays for them, according to scientists in the US.

The study, carried out at Duke University Medical Center in North Carolina, found that patients who received alternative therapy following angioplasty were 25% to 30% less likely to suffer complications.

And those who received "intercessory prayer" had the greatest success rate.

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posted 11-02-2001 12:11 AM            

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Just my $0.02.

posted 11-05-2001 08:18 PM            

If you're still out there...I know what you mean by bad things happening to good people Delphi. Like I said before, I really questioned God when I did my investigations into child pornography/satanism.

It really shook my faith in God for a long time. I was looking for ways to get revenge on them and actually did find an organized group that dealt with these types with "extreme prejudice". They also conducted rescue operations! See 'Operation Clydes Dale'. If I find the link I'll post it. This is one of the main reasons I also have faith in some elements of U.S. military intelligence.

For whatever reason, probably because I used alcohol to deal with my revulsion and hatred of the system that allowed child pornography/satanism to exist, I was not able or destined to exact revenge on the monsters as those brave souls in Operation Clydes Dale were, (many of whom were killed). I was able to get some of them exposed and imprisoned and I know that one or two of them were 'taken out' by someone, but I don't know who.

From my subsequent attendance at AA meetings I found a renewed faith in God, ironically because I found so many survivors of child abuse who had also turned to alcohol and drugs to escape the demons that haunted them! You, Delphi, to me, are an example/result of a loving God, unlike the veangeful and punishing god I had grown up believing in. I know that you and your husband have survived other kinds of abuse to tell your story to those who won't believe.

To have survived the things these monsters do to children is now proof to me that God exists and will save us if we believe, (probably even if we don't?). When kids do not survive either from murder, trauma, insanity, drug abuse/suicide... that's a very hard question to answer. But today, I can accept that I'm not God and I don't have an answer for that, and I don't have to know why. I've also come to believe in the possibility of reincarnation and that some of us are 'young souls' and some of us are 'old souls'. The 'young souls' have to come back again in another life, to learn something they missed in a previous life.

I also believe that there is a supernatural evil at work in our earthly world, and that the only true justice will be served in the afterlife, when we cross over to a higher plane. In many ways, our only defense is a strong faith in God, even though we struggle for justice and understanding as we have to, to try to protect innocent lives. There comes a time when we just have to back off and let a Higher Power take over. Much as I hate to admit it, some things are beyond our control and understanding.

posted 11-09-2001 09:26 AM            

quote:

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Mark,

Your challenge to me was brought to my attention, so I guess I'd better
answer.

I read the BBC article and found it interesting, although I wouldn't attach
the same degree of certainty about the results as you appear to have. To
quote from the article: "Suzanne Crater, a nurse practitioner and
co-director of the study, said the clinical outcomes between treatment
groups were **not significantly different** but those receiving alternative
therapies "had lower absolute complication rates and a lower absolute
incidence of post-procedural ischemia during hospitalisation." (emphasis
mine).

Later in the article: "The results tend to lean toward prayer helping people
but more study is needed." Hardly a firm conclusion, then.

Beleive me taht I *am* intrigued by the field of study that they have
chosen. I firmly believe, however, that there is no possible methodology for
establishing whether prayer can, indeed, be of assistance in therapeutic
terms. I say this because I know of many religious people who pray daily for
the sick - that is, all sick people, everywhere.

It can hardly be said in this case, therefore, that the study succesfully
created a control group of patients who would not be the subject of
intercessary prayer.

You can post this if you wish; I just felt that you deserved a reply having
cited my name.

Regards,

Sceptic

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