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  9/11 Deja vu? (Flight 587) (Page 2)

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Topic:   9/11 Deja vu? (Flight 587)

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djembemon
bum-biddy-bum goes the drum

Atlanta, GA USA
89 posts, Dec 2000

posted 11-23-2001 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for djembemon   Visit djembemon's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wasn't criticizing Izakovic, btw -- just the remote viewing "analysis", as it seemed not only inaccurate but terribly flawed. One look at the photo of the "pristine" vertical stabilizer section pretty much wraps that discussion.

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 11-23-2001 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You beat me to the punch Chem11!

There have been and are legit RV'ers, but from my understanding, PSI-Tech and Ed Dames are not among them.

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 11-23-2001 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dames was first out of the chute with public disclosure of Remote Viewing, and it was no accident. Another viewer had a book coming out from a major publisher and the Feds pulled the plug on it.

Enter Ed Dames.

The guy just walks out with the Army/DoD Remote Viewing training manual, makes a few key alterations to the protocols, and calls it 'Technical Remote Viewing'. It was a classified document, but somehow he avoided prosecution.

I've never seen him do an accurate session. Just a bunch of crazy disinfo predictions on Art Bell designed to discredit the subject matter and put a few bucks in his pocket. Business as usual.

Izakovic, if you're interested in the subject take a peek at the HRVG website.
These guys are the best.
http://hrvg.org/

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 11-23-2001 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting that he made his 'predictions' on Art Bell. I believe that Art Bell may have been compromised through the abduction and molestation of his son.

I think he's been black-mailed/threatened into changing the content of his show/website and also into phony legal actions against Ted Gunderson who allegedly accused him of child molestation. But that's whole 'nother can of worms!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by defender on 11-25-2001]

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IZAKOVIC
Senior Member

Rijeka, Croatia (Europe)
128 posts, Jan 2001

posted 11-25-2001 04:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for IZAKOVIC   Visit IZAKOVIC's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On November 23, 2001, PSI TECH
http://www.trv-psitech.com/index.htm

has published article Out on a Limb: Remote Viewing the Crash of Flight 587
http://www.remoteviewing.com/news/flight587.html

in which they present aditional data that came out during the TRV session as the response to the compliments about findings that were given in their preliminary report
http://www.remoteviewing.com/reports/111201.htm

In it they have indicated that the cause was "mechanical infiltration." In other words, sabotage.

Based on the segment of the report, made by the NTSB, on content of the Flight Data Recorder that states:

.... the Airbus began a series of oscillations, yawing from left to right, then back again. A few seconds later and the data stream from the Airbus's rudder is torn off--the aircraft begins rolling to its left side --the flight data recorder shows that it rolled 25 degrees to the left, even though the pilot had applied full-right roll control. The recorder also reveals the aircraft had dropped into a 30-degree dive, and began revolving rapidly toward the left." ….

and consultations with several senior aerospace engineers, PSI-TECH now believes that there is one explanation consistent with the TRV findings and Flight Data Recorder data.
A sudden reverse of the thrust of the left engine, while the airplane was climbing under the full power, would account for all three events. It would cause the airplane to spin around its vertical gravity center axis (flat spin) creating a huge side force on the tail and rudder assembly, which simply broke off cleanly and fluttered away. Without the vertical tail assembly to slow the spin, rotation speed would further increase which would ultimately rip the aircraft apart.

Marshall Smith, the Editor of BroJon Gazette (BroJon.com)
http://www.geocities.com/brojongazette/index.html

in his article THE MYSTERY OF FLIGHT 587, that was published on November 15, 2001 and further updated on November 17, 2001, describes this same scenario in full detail and comes to the same conclusion. As Mr. Smith was a pilot since 1962 and holds degrees in mechanical and electrical engineering and physics and as he was working on failure analysis for NASA for many years, his opinion greatly empowers the conclusion that was made by the PSI-TECH

THAT WAS THE SABOTAGE.

As each TRV project requires a large amount of rigorous work made by professional remote viewers, there are capacity limitations related to the every day problem called resources managing.
Because of this a few pieces of raw data related to this target have been gathered that they have not time enough to investigate. These are:

1. Sabotage.
2. A man in a green uniform.
3. Fortran.

The details of the first clue are well explained in Marshall Smith’s BroJon Gazette article.

Second clue could indicate that the US Military are behind this operation.

Third clue was addressed by the PSI TECH with this comment:
…. (which we discovered afterwards is the software language used to control this type of "fly by wire" aircraft.) ….
FORTRAN is, for over the three decades, standard computer programming language in mechanical engineering field. It is the acronym of the term FORmula TRANslation language. It is used for the programming of the robots whose dynamics is prevalently described by the mathematical functions (formulas) like assembly line robots or fly-by-wire aircrafts designed in late ’70.
This is important finding because, if there are not hardware redundancies, or if they are but were tampered with, the change in the AIRBUS 300 program that controls all of it’s flight functions could start the reverse trust of one of the engines at the precise time/ event of the flight and block all logic that was designed to exclude such event during the flight to occur, regardless what the crew do.

This reminds me of 911 NY event also.


Best regards.

11-25-2001
IZAKOVIC http://www.deepspace4.com

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defender
TELEVISION IS MIND CONTROL


Level 64
1115 posts, Oct 2000

posted 11-25-2001 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for defender     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IZAKOVIC,

I don't mean to be argumentative about the possibility that the flight was sabotaged. My own personal theories usually involve the MANPADS, or Stinger-type hand-held surface-to-air missiles, (some of these have been retro-fitted Russian/Chinese designs to meet performance level of the U.S.-made Stinger, which was, admittedly, originally released by the CIA in Afghanistan during Soviet-Afghan war, thus allowing Warsaw Pact countries the opportunity to copy them!... kind of like how the Clinton Regime released God knows how many military secrets to the Chinese during the past eight years)!

The explanations you present as far as internal sabotage are certainly feasible, and more likely than those lame scenarios proposed by the media puppets, ie: accident/wind turbulence/mechanical failure. And maybe in this case, sabotage was the method chosen as opposed to a SAM. But if Psi-Tech is the source of that information, it may be more likely that they obtained their information directly from the perpertrators than from any Remote Viewing they might claim to have done?

As far as the 'man in uniform' being involved, if there was one, I'd have to disagree that that is any proof of U.S. military involvement. Covert intel groups have as much access (even more) to a 'mission-appropriate' uniform as any legitimate serviceman or officer.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by defender on 11-25-2001]

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IZAKOVIC
Senior Member

Rijeka, Croatia (Europe)
128 posts, Jan 2001

posted 11-28-2001 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for IZAKOVIC   Visit IZAKOVIC's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Defender.

For me it is rather difficult to describe the essence of the standpoint from which my, I like to think, more or less complex, reasoning originate.

One of its aspects could be indicated by the fact that up to eleven years ago Croatia was a part of ex-Yugoslavia, at that time the most advanced country outside of the Western Hemisphere and the leader of unaligned nations. Our standard was comparable to that of neighboring West European countries, such as Italy and Austria (where many of our countrymen had lived and worked as renown professionals for decades), we had free top grade education, low unemployment, total social and health security, we have practiced almost total disregard of politics of any kind including our own, and we were free to travel wherever and whenever we wanted to. We did not care much about the both sides in the Cold War drill except that we have thought that, somehow, they all went bananas long time ago. At that time, nobody in Croatia had a gun at home (except hunters), and very few of us considered any kind of career in Yugoslav army (that was esteemed to be the fifth military force in Europe at that time). In 1989 I have decided that I had enough of military reserve maneuvers and announced at the proper place that I will decline any further invitations coming form Yugoslav Army. Interestingly, they did not bother me any more.
Then, starting in 1990, all encompassing, state driven psychological program, inside one single year, turned every single Croatian in a bloodthirsty nationalist warrior (or patriot). Suddenly everybody pulled out 200-2000 or more $ and bought every kind of weapon imaginable. We once again felt like we were Warrior Horsemen (this is the real meaning of the name Croatian) from which, at some time, every major Western European nation and some Huns and Turks has ran in the past.
So we bet the hell out of Yugoslav Army despite all their dangerous hardware, help from the West and some war crimes. It was fun and it was deadly and it was senseless.

Later on I sow that we were the dry run for that what is now going in the US and worldwide.

I see that you have noted that Steven Greer (and Al Martin does it also) puts it nicely:
There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.

I think I have PSI-TECH module I and II TRV tapes from 1996. I took them to assess the validity of their technology. Joni Douriff, a PSI-TECH president, sold them to me with a significant discount, because I was from war-devastated Croatia (not mine idea). A noble gesture, a gesture of a true American.
I have mailed the same article to her. It had my US Military supposition included. In RV you do not operate with the everyday meaning of every word (the man in the uniform = which uniform – servicemen, soldier, etc), but with the idea this information presents. That is the point of protocols, to restrict the number of ideas, to define them exactly and to exclude internal dialog. PSI-TECH’s indication is only one that could be interesting to the public at large, because of its source of which many have some opinion . I have left some other out.

Obviously term US Military should be understand along this same lines, i.e. that other organization that controls almost everything. My point in posting that article was once again the same, US citizens are undergoing heavy psychological programming whose aim is to make them surrender their way of life, their rights and to turn them, basically, in the slaves, and soldiers.
I cannot marvel enough how all of 300.000.000 or more, educated, bright and beautiful US citizens cannot see that succession of all that incredible events (before …. young Kennedy plane crush, flight 800, elections and recount, J. P. Morgan going under, 9-11, Anthrax and now flight 587 …. and more) cannot be coincidence even by the Hollywood standards. For God's sake, plains are falling out of the sky all over NY every other day, for years, every day more frequently.
I am worried for you people over there. We here, in the rest of the world, have been already dispossessed, and you there are the only ones left who are still intact and can make the difference if you want to.

I am behaving like orator here little bit (( , it is my state of mid at this moment. Nothing personal.

And now, here is little more of the same:

From BroJon.com http://www.geocities.com/brojongazette/index.html

Here are some excerpts from the November 24, 2001 BROTHER JONATHAN GAZETTE article

the bottom line .....
THE MYSTERY OF FLIGHT 587 (Part B)
A TERROR ATTACK -- FINAL PROOF
The Phony War in Afghanistan (Part 5B)

in which its editor, Marshall Smith, shows strong new evidence by which he further empowers his previous conclusion that 587 went down because left engine went in reverse trust mode after the take-off.

Quote:

The statement made in the NTSB update of Nov 20 that "The thrust reversers were in a stowed position," is both self-serving and not supported by any data or evidence. Any statements made in an NTSB update are "interim" and are not final until the final report is approved by the head of the investigation team, which will be in many months or more, long after most people have forgotten about the Flight 587 accident. Thus any statement may be made in an update whether it is true or not.

In the NTSB update section on "Aircraft Structures" it states "...readings off the flight data recorder, show that the trim setting appears to be close to neutral. The aircraft's wing flaps appear to have been retracted at the time of impact, and the landing gear appear to have been stowed, based on both physical evidence and FDR readings." Notice here the phrase is "appear to be,...based on..." but when discussing the thrust reversers in the next section on "Engines" it does not use the phrase "the thrust reversers appear to be in the stowed position, based on..."
Instead, the flat out statement that the "reversers...were stowed" indicates this is a cover-up of the facts. Nobody at the scene, given the severely damaged condition of both engines, could have determined that the reversers were stowed either earlier in the flight or at time of impact. No Flight Data Recorder data is given to support the claim.

Most probably the sheet metal clamshells of the thrust reversers were severely damaged or completely torn off when the engines impacted the ground, so any statement about the condition of the thrust reversers in flight would need to be made up.

About the direction of the breaking off of the tail, the failure of the carbon composite attachment points of the tail would clearly show in which direction the assembly was torn. One of the NTSB photos shows the two aft attachment points and one of the center attachment points. In Photo 9 the front of the plane is toward the upper right of the picture. The lower attachment point in the photo is on the right side of the tail. In the left center and upper middle of the photo are the left aft attachment point and the left center attachment point on the left side of the tail.
The importance of this photo is that both left side attachment points still have remnants of the carbon composite tail assembly with pieces of the aluminum vertical stabilizer skin still bolted to the plane, while the right attachment point has been completely torn away with only the bare bolt remaining. If there had been a strong force or blast of air from the right side of the plane then the forces on the attachment points would be upward or in tension on the right side of the tail and downward or in compression on the left side of the tail. Most materials, including the carbon composites are much stronger in compression than they are in tension. Therefore, with a blast of wind from the right, the attachments in tension on the right side of the tail would fail first. As soon as that happens the whole vertical stabilizer or tail would bend over to the left and what would break off on the left side would be the weaker bent over aluminum tail skin which is still visible with the jagged aluminum edges of both left side attachment points, as shown in the photo. Thus the vertical stabilizer was hit by a blast of wind from the right and broke over to the left. This supports the notion that a flat horizontal spin to the left, with the nose going to the left, and the tail whipping to the right, produced a strong blast of wind on the tail from the right.
This photo in conjunction with the Flight Data Recorder information can prove one major piece of evidence. Was the source of the blast of wind which blew the tail off the plane external or internal. An external blast of wind coming from the right as from wake turbulence, would knock the tail off to the left as shown in the photo, but like a weather vane in the wind, the blast of wind would cause the plane to turn into the wind or to the right. But the FDR data shows the plane made a sudden rotation to the left not the right. The only possible conclusion is that the force of the wind was internally caused and not due to any external forces such as wake turbulence. This completely excludes the external wake turbulence theory as the cause of the loss of the tail and then both engines.
Instead the tail attachment points shown in Photo 9 along with the FDR data showing the sudden rotation to the left indicates that the only possible cause was a horizontal flat spin to the left which created a force on the tail coming from the right. If the plane had simply turned or rolled to the left and not rotated about its center of gravity in a flat spin to the left, the sideways force on the tail would be minimal. The only possible conclusion based on Photo 9 and the FDR data is that the plane entered a leftward flat horizontal spin as it slowed to the stall point.
There are only two possible ways for a plane to enter a horizontal flat spin. First, would be the pilot purposely slowing the plane down and then at the stall point reducing the power on the left engine and increasing the power on the right engine and applying full left rudder. If some "mad" pilot had done this, then those motions of the controls would show up in the FDR data, and there would definitely be some loud comments in the Cockpit Voice Recorder reflecting a reaction to the pilot's strange behavior. Neither the FDR or CVR show such pilot actions or show the possibility that the cause of the spin could be pilot or crew error, or "mad pilot syndrome."
The second possible cause for an internal force creating a blast of wind to tear off the tail to the left as shown in the photo, is for the left thrust reverser to actuate during flight and cause a rapid rotation of the plane about its center of gravity to the left. This is supported by the FDR data showing a strong rotation to the left just as the plane starts to rapidly drop downward in a stall and as the tail is ripped off to the left. Conclusion, the only possible cause for the crash would be the in-flight actuation of the left thrust reverser.
…. End quote.

Article includes above-mentioned images that in every detail support Mr. Smith’s reasoning. Furthermore, Mr. Smith’s analysis that shows why the internal force (that is momentum of the airframe induced by the left engine reverse push) could be the only cause that broke the tail fin free, nicely explains why on the left tail fin attachment point there is a chunk of it left.


Warmest regards to all.

11-28-2001
IZAKOVIC http://www.deepspace4.com

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 01-18-2002 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just heard a possible explanation for this crash from Roger Hedgecock on the Rush Limbaugh program. The crash may have been the result of Shoe Bomber #1. According to Hedgecock, both shoe bombers were sitting in Seat 19A, the location in an Airbus 300 where the wing attaches to the body of the plane.

EDIT: The December 22, 2001 American Airlines Flight 63 out of Paris (the one Richard Reid was on) was a Boeing 767, not an Airbus A300, so I'm not sure whether Hedgecock's Seat 19A reference was applicable to both types of planes or just to one of them.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 01-20-2002]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 01-20-2002 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For two days I have been trying to figure out where Rodge Hedgecock might've gotten the story about American Airlines Flight 587 being brought down by a shoe bomber. I still don't know, but cydoniaquest over at the debunkers' site has found this at WorldNetDaily.com:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26099

quote:

Was Richard Reid, the Briton indicted this week on charges of attempted murder -- after failing to blow up American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami on Dec. 22 -- the first shoe bomber?

DEBKA-Net-Weekly reports a spreading conviction among aviation and counter-terror experts that he was Shoe Bomber No. 2, and that American Airlines Flight 587 was brought down 40 days earlier over Queens, N.Y., by Shoe Bomber No. 1.

Their argument springs from a simple question: Why did not Reid simply lock himself in the bathroom and ignite the fuse to the bomb without risk of interference?

The answer is that he was instructed to position himself in window seat No. A 19, next to where the wing attaches to the body of the plane to follow the example of Shoe Bomber No. 1.

A bomb exploding in this position would allow the plastic explosive to erupt through the wall of the cabin and rupture the wing where jet fuel is stored. This position was also close to the center fuel tank in the body of the plane between the wings. If Reid had not been wrestled down by the flight attendants and passengers, the explosives in his shoes would have ripped a hole in the side of the plane and then ignited the fuel stored in the wing.

This, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources, is precisely what happened on the AA flight 587 Airbus bound for Santo Domingo, 40 days previously, with tragic consequences. All 255 passengers and crew died, as well as five people on the ground.



Did anybody else notice this: This position was also close to the center fuel tank in the body of the plane between the wings.

TWA Flight 800 was a Boeing 737 which took off from JFK. It was thought to have crashed due to an explosion in its center fuel tank.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 01-20-2002]

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 01-27-2002 10:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

Frustrated investigators looking into the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 have an important new piece of evidence. Government sources tell Time that analysts at the National Transportation Safety Board last week got their first look at a remarkable videotape of the deadly accident. Recorded by a surveillance camera at a New York City area tollbooth, the tape captures nearly the entire catastrophe that sent the Airbus A300 crashing into a residential neighborhood in Queens less than 3 min. after takeoff from John F. Kennedy International Airport on Nov. 12


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,197613,00.html

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