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  World-recognized weather modification ban (Page 1)

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Topic:   World-recognized weather modification ban

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 07-21-2001 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is kinda long, but very pertinent to the discussions on this forum. The document below can be found at this website:
http://www.state.gov/www/global/arms/treaties/environ1.html

Maverick


CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES
Use of environmental modification techniques for hostile purposes does not play a major role in military planning at the present time. Such techniques might be developed in the future, however, and would pose a threat of serious damage unless action was taken to prohibit their use. In July 1972 the U.S. Government renounced the use of climate modification techniques for hostile purposes, even if their development were proved to be feasible in the future.

Both the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives held hearings, beginning in 1972, and the Senate adopted a resolution in 1973 calling for an international agreement "prohibiting the use of any environmental or geophysical modification activity as a weapon of war...." In response to this resolution, the President ordered the Department of Defense to undertake an in-depth review of the military aspects of weather and other environmental modification techniques. The results of this study and a subsequent interagency study led to the U.S. Governments decision to seek agreement with the Soviet Union to explore the possibilities of an international agreement.

During the summit meeting in Moscow in July 1974, President Nixon and General Secretary Brezhnev formally agreed to hold bilateral discussions on how to bring about "the most effective measures possible to overcome the dangers of the use of environmental modification techniques for military purposes." Three sets of discussions were held in 1974 and 1975, resulting in agreement on a common approach and common language.

In August 1975, the chief representatives of the U.S. and the Soviet delegations to the Conference of the Committee on Disarmament (CCD) tabled, in parallel, identical draft texts of a "Convention on the Prohibition of Military or any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques."

The Convention defines environmental modification techniques as changing -- through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes -- the dynamics, composition or structure of the earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydro-sphere, and atmosphere, or of outer space. Changes in weather or climate patterns, in ocean currents, or in the state of the ozone layer or ionosphere, or an upset in the ecological balance of a region are some of the effects which might result from the use of environmental modification techniques.

Intensive negotiations held in the CCD during the spring and summer of 1976 resulted in a modified text and, in addition, to understandings regarding four of the Treaty articles. These were transmitted to the U.N. General Assembly for consideration during the fall session.

Article I sets forth the basic commitment: "Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury to any other State Party." An understanding defines the terms "widespread, long-lasting or severe." "Widespread" is defined as "encompassing an area on the scale of several hundred square kilometers"; "long-lasting" is defined as "lasting for a period of months, or approximately a season"; and "severe" is defined as "involving serious or significant disruption or harm to human life, natural and economic resources or other assets."

With regard to peaceful uses of environmental modification techniques, the convention provides that the parties shall have the right to participate in the fullest possible exchange of scientific and technological information.

In addition to the provision for mutual consultation regarding complaints and for resource to the Security Council, the revised draft establishes the framework for a Consultative Committee of Experts, which would meet on an ad hoc basis when so requested by a party, in order to clarify the nature of activities suspected to be in violation of the convention. Responding to the suggestion of many delegations, the revised text incorporates a provision for periodic conferences to review the Conventions operation.

During the 1976 fall session, the U.N. General Assembly held extensive debate on the draft Convention, including several resolutions relating thereto. On December 10, the General Assembly adopted a resolution by a vote of 96 to 8, with 30 abstentions, which referred the Convention to all member nations for their consideration, signature, and ratification, and requested the U.N. Secretary-General to open the Convention for signature.

The U.N. Secretary-General officiated at the signing ceremony in Geneva on May 18. The United States joined 33 other nations in signing the Convention. The Convention entered into force on October 5, 1978, when the 20th state to sign the Convention deposited its instrument of ratification. President Carter transmitted the Convention to the Senate on September 22, 1978.

The Senate gave its advice and consent to ratification on November 28, 1979, by a vote of 98-0. The President ratified the Convention December 13, 1979. The Convention entered into force for the United States on January 17, 1980, when the U.S. instrument of ratification was deposited in New York.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION TECHNIQUES
Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977
Entered into force October 5, 1978
Ratification by U.S. President December 13, 1979
U.S. ratification deposited at New York January 17, 1980

The States Parties to this Convention,

Guided by the interest of consolidating peace, and wishing to contribute to the cause of halting the arms race, and of bringing about general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control, and of saving mankind from the danger of using new means of warfare,

Determined to continue negotiations with a view to achieving effective progress towards further measures in the field of disarmament,

Recognizing that scientific and technical advances may open new possibilities with respect to modification of the environment,

Recalling the Declaration of the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment adopted at Stockholm on 16 June 1972,

Realizing that the use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes could improve the interrelationship of man and nature and contribute to the preservation and improvement of the environment for the benefit of present and future generations,

Recognizing, however, that military or any other hostile use of such techniques could have effects extremely harmful to human welfare,

Desiring to prohibit effectively military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques in order to eliminate the dangers to mankind from such use, and affirming their willingness to work towards the achievement of this objective,

Desiring also to contribute to the strengthening of trust among nations and to the further improvement of the international situation in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations,

Have agreed as follows:


Article I
1. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury to any other State Party.

2. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to assist, encourage or induce any State, group of States or international organiza-tion to engage in activities contrary to the provisions of paragraph 1 of this article.


Article II
As used in Article I, the term "environmental modification techniques" refers to any technique for changing -- through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes -- the dynamics, composition or structure of the Earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere, or of outer space.


Article III
1. The provisions of this Convention shall not hinder the use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes and shall be without prejudice to the generally recognized principles and applicable rules of international law concerning such use.

2. The States Parties to this Convention undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in, the fullest possible exchange of scientific and technological information on the use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes. States Parties in a position to do so shall contribute, alone or together with other States or international organizations, to international economic and scientific co-operation in the preservation, improvement, and peaceful utilization of the environment, with due consideration for the needs of the developing areas of the world.


Article IV
Each State Party to this Convention undertakes to take any measures it considers necessary in accordance with its constitutional processes to prohibit and prevent any activity in violation of the provisions of the Convention anywhere under its jurisdiction or control.


Article V
1. The States Parties to this Convention undertake to consult one another and to cooperate in solving any problems which may arise in relation to the objectives of, or in the application of the provisions of, the Convention. Consultation and cooperation pursuant to this article may also be undertaken through appropriate international procedures within the framework of the United Nations and in accordance with its Charter. These international procedures may include the services of appropriate international organizations, as well as of a Consultative Committee of Experts as provided for in paragraph 2 of this article.

2. For the purposes set forth in paragraph 1 of this article, the Depositary shall, within one month of the receipt of a request from any State Party to this Convention, convene a Consultative Committee of Experts. Any State Party may appoint an expert to the Committee whose functions and rules of procedure are set out in the annex, which constitutes an integral part of this Convention. The Committee shall transmit to the Depositary a summary of its findings of fact, incorporating all views and information presented to the Committee during its proceedings. The Depositary shall distribute the summary to all States Parties.

3. Any State Party to this Convention which has reason to believe that any other State Party is acting in breach of obligations deriving from the provisions of the Convention may lodge a complaint with the Security Council of the United Nations. Such a complaint should include all relevant information as well as all possible evidence supporting its validity.

4. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes to cooperate in carrying out any investigation which the Security Council may initiate, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, on the basis of the complaint received by the Council. The Security Council shall inform the States Parties of the results of the investigation.

5. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes to provide or support assistance, in accordance with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, to any State Party which so requests, if the Security Council decides that such Party has been harmed or is likely to be harmed as a result of violation of the Convention.


Article VI
1. Any State Party to this Convention may propose amendments to the Convention. The text of any proposed amendment shall be submitted to the Depositary who shall promptly circulate it to all States Parties.

2. An amendment shall enter into force for all States Parties to this Convention which have accepted it, upon the deposit with the Depositary of instruments of acceptance by a majority of States Parties. Thereafter it shall enter into force for any remaining State Party on the date of deposit of its instrument of acceptance.


Article VII
This Convention shall be of unlimited duration.


Article VIII
1. Five years after the entry into force of this Convention, a conference of the States Parties to the Convention shall be convened by the Depositary at Geneva, Switzerland. The conference shall review the operation of the Convention with a view to ensuring that its purposes and provisions are being realized, and shall in particular examine the effectiveness of the provisions of paragraph 1 of Article I in eliminating the dangers of military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques.

2. At intervals of not less than five years thereafter, a majority of the States Parties to the Convention may obtain, by submitting a proposal to this effect to the Depositary, the convening of a conference with the same objectives.

3. If no conference has been convened pursuant to paragraph 2 of this article within ten years following the conclusion of a previous conference, the Depositary shall solicit the views of all States Parties to the Convention, concerning the convening of such a conference. If one third or ten of the States Parties, whichever number is less, respond affirmatively, the Depositary shall take immediate steps to convene the conference.


Article IX
1. This Convention shall be open to all States for signature. Any State which does not sign the Convention before its entry into force in accordance with paragraph 3 of this article may accede to it at any time.

2. This Convention shall be subject to ratification by signatory States. Instruments of ratification or accession shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations.

3. This Convention shall enter into force upon the deposit of instruments of ratification by twenty Governments in accordance with paragraph 2 of this article.

4. For those States whose instruments of ratification or accession are deposited after the entry into force of this Convention, it shall enter into force on the date of the deposit of their instruments of ratification or accession.

5. The Depositary shall promptly inform all signatory and acceding States of the date of each signature, the date of deposit of each instrument of ratification or accession and the date of the entry into force of this Convention and of any amendments thereto, as well as of the receipt of other notices.

6. This Convention shall be registered by the Depositary in accordance with Article 102 of the Charter of the United Nations.


Article X
This Convention, of which the English, Arabic, Chinese, French, Russian, and Spanish texts are equally authentic, shall be deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who shall send certified copies thereof to the Governments of the signatory and acceding States.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned, being duly authorized thereto by their respective governments, have signed this Convention, opened for signature at Geneva on the eighteenth day of May, one thousand nine hundred and seventy-seven.

DONE at Geneva on May 18, 1977.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ANNEX TO THE CONVENTION
CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE OF EXPERTS
1. The Consultative Committee of Experts shall undertake to make appropriate findings of fact and provide expert views relevant to any problem raised pursuant to paragraph 1 of Article V of this Convention by the State Party requesting the convening of the Committee.

2. The work of the Consultative Committee of Experts shall be organized in such a way as to permit it to perform the functions set forth in paragraph 1 of this annex. The Committee shall decide procedural questions relative to the organization of its work, where possible by consensus, but otherwise by a majority of those present and voting. There shall be no voting on matters of substance.

3. The Depositary or his representative shall serve as the Chairman of the Committee.

4. Each expert may be assisted at meetings by one or more advisers.

5. Each expert shall have the right, through the Chairman, to request from States, and from international organizations, such information and assistance as the expert considers desirable for the accomplishment of the Committees work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


UNDERSTANDINGS REGARDING THE CONVENTION

Understanding Relating to Article I
It is the understanding of the Committee that, for the purposes of this Convention, the terms, "widespread", "long-lasting" and "severe" shall be interpreted as follows:


(a) "widespread": encompassing an area on the scale of several hundred square kilometres;
(b) "long-lasting": lasting for a period of months, or approximately a season;

(c) "severe": involving serious or significant disruption or harm to human life, natural and economic resources or other assets.

It is further understood that the interpretation set forth above is intended exclusively for this Convention and is not intended to prejudice the interpretation of the same or similar terms if used in connexion with any other international agreement.


Understanding Relating to Article II
It is the understanding of the Committee that the following examples are illustrative of phenomena that could be caused by the use of environmental modification techniques as defined in Article II of the Convention: earthquakes, tsunamis; an upset in the ecological balance of a region; changes in weather patterns (clouds, precipitation, cyclones of various types and tornadic storms); changes in climate patterns; changes in ocean currents; changes in the state of the ozone layer; and changes in the state of the ionosphere.

It is further understood that all the phenomena listed above, when produced by military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques, would result, or could reasonably be expected to result, in widespread, long-lasting or severe destruction, damage or injury. Thus, military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques as defined in Article II, so as to cause those phenomena as a means of destruction, damage or injury to another State Party, would be prohibited.

It is recognized, moreover, that the list of examples set out above is not exhaustive. Other phenomena which could result from the use of environmental modification techniques as defined in Article II could also be appropriately included. The absence of such phenomena from the list does not in any way imply that the undertaking contained in Article I would not be applicable to those phenomena, provided the criteria set out in that article were met.


Understanding Relating to Article III
It is the understanding of the Committee that this Convention does not deal with the question whether or not a given use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes is in accordance with generally recognized principles and applicable rules of international law.


Understanding Relating to Article VIII
It is the understanding of the Committee that a proposal to amend the Convention may also be considered at any conference of Parties held pursuant to Article VIII. It is further understood that any proposed amendment that is intended for such consideration should, if possible, be submitted to the Depositary no less than 90 days before the commencement of the conference.

__________________

1 These are not incorporated into the Convention but are part of the negotiating record and were included in the report transmitted by the CCD to the U.N. General Assembly in September 1976.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Environmental Modification Convention
Country
Date 1 of
Signature
Date of
Deposit 1 of
Ratification
Date of
Deposit 1 of
Accession

Afghanistan 10/22/85
Algeria 12/19/91
Antigua and Barbuda 10/25/88
Argentina 03/20/87
Australia 05/31/78 09/07/84
Austria 01/17/90
Bangladesh 10/03/79
Belgium 05/18/77 07/12/82
Benin 06/10/77 06/30/86
Bolivia 05/18/77
Brazil 11/09/77 10/12/84
Brunei 01/01/84 1
Bulgaria 05/18/77 05/31/78
Byelorussian S.S.R.2 05/18/77 06/07/78
Canada 05/18/77 06/11/81
Cape Verde 10/03/79
Chile 04/26/94
Cuba 09/23/77 04/10/78
Cyprus 10/07/77 04/12/78
Czechoslovakia 05/18/77 05/12/78
Czech Republic 02/22/93
Denmark 05/18/77 04/19/78
Dominica 11/09/92 11/08/78 1
Egypt 04/01/82
Ethiopia 05/18/77
Finland 05/18/77 05/12/78
German Democratic
Republic 05/18/77 05/25/78
Germany, Federal
Republic of 05/18/77 05/24/83
Ghana 03/21/78 06/22/78
Greece 08/23/83
Guatemala 03/21/88
Holy See 05/27/77
Hungary 05/18/77 04/19/78
Iceland 05/18/77
India 12/10/77 12/15/78
Iran 05/18/77
Iraq 08/15/77
Ireland 05/18/77 12/16/82
Italy 05/18/77 11/27/81
Japan 06/09/82
Korea, Democratic
People's Republic of 11/08/84
Korea, Republic of 12/02/86
Kuwait 01/02/80
Laos 04/13/78 10/05/78
Lebanon 05/18/77
Liberia 05/18/77
Luxembourg 05/18/77
Malawi 10/05/78
Mauritius 12/09/92
Mongolia 05/18/77 05/19/78
Morocco 05/18/77
Netherlands 05/18/77 04/15/83
New Zealand 09/07/84
Nicaragua 08/11/77
Niger 02/17/93
Norway 05/18/77 02/15/79
Pakistan 02/27/86
Papua New Guinea 10/28/80
Poland 05/18/77 06/08/78
Portugal 05/18/77
Romania 05/18/77 05/06/83
St. Christopher-Nevis 09/19/83 1
St. Lucia 05/27/93 02/22/79 1
St. Vincent and
the Grenadines 10/27/79 1
Sao Tome and Principe 10/05/79
Sierra Leone 04/12/78
Solomon Islands 06/18/81 06/18/81
Spain 05/18/77 07/19/78
Sri Lanka 06/08/77 04/25/78
Sweden 04/27/84
Switzerland 08/05/88
Syria 08/04/77
Tunisia 05/11/78 05/11/78
Turkey 05/18/77
Uganda 05/18/77
Ukrainian S.S.R.2 05/18/77 06/13/78
Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics 05/18/77 05/30/78
United Kingdom 05/18/77 05/16/78
United States 05/18/77 01/17/80
Uruguay 09/16/93
Uzbekistan 05/26/93
Vietnam 08/26/80
Yemen Arab Republic
(Sanaa) 05/18/77 07/20/77
Yemen, People s Democratic
of (Aden) 06/12/79
Zaire 02/28/78
________________________________________________
Total 3 51 36 34

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1 Dates given are the earliest dates on which countries signed the agreements or deposited their ratifications or accessions -- whether in Washington, London, Moscow, or New York. In the case of a country that was a dependent territory which became a party through succession, the date given is the date on which the country gave notice that it would continue to be bound by the terms of the agreement.

2 The United States regards the signature and ratification by the Byelorussian S.S.R. and the Ukrainian S.S.R. as already included under the signature and ratification of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

3 This total does not include actions by the Byelorussian S.S.R. and the Ukrainian S.S.R. (See footnote 2.)

4 Effective January 1, 1979, the United States recognized the Government of the People's Republic of China as the sole government of China.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-21-2001 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess the question I would have is, how can we believe anybody is obeying this treaty?

For instance, has the jet stream looked like this in the summers of other years, Maverick?



[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-21-2001]

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 07-22-2001 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3T3L1-

O.K., you've stumped the dummy. I don't quite get your inference between the jet stream and this treaty. What is the alleged correlation?

You're right. Who is abiding by this? I have no idea. However, the all-too familiar conspiracy theorists' assumption is that because of the impossibility of proving that every country IS abiding by it, then they must NOT be abiding by it. This, of course, is not always the case, but it makes it very convenient for the finger-pointer because of the other side's inability to 100% prove otherwise. Sound familiar?

Maverick

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 07-22-2001 12:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you don't mind me butting in, the jet stream takes and extreme northernly type pattern into canada in the summer months...and a sub-tropical jet to the south of mid mexico at times too ( both independent streams)...last year a persistent high sat over your state and part of mine for the majority of latter july and all of august...

Without the jet stream, storms don't come around as often...and if they do...they bring floods in general, because there's no upper air to push them along...

we have some convection today here, damn those clouds were nice...106 here today !

what I would not give for a chem-dome right now !

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-22-2001 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What may be going on, and it's only speculation, is that the jetstream is being manipulated by directed energy pulses. Izakovic has said that the weather was very unusual over Croatia while the U.S. was fighting there. When I first got into the chemtrail thing this past January, I began following the progress of the jetstream at http://virga.sfsu.edu/scripts/nhemjetstream_model.html I noticed that the jetstream, stayed fairly intact as it traveled around the northern hemisphere, especially between western Russia and Alaska. However, during the three months I was monitoring it closely, it almost NEVER went over the Balkans. Then, during our little tiff with China, it stopped going over China.

I didn't look at the jetstream much after my close encounter of the nsasucks kind, but when I got back to watching it a few days ago, to my surprise, it had turned into just a few wisps here and there. Maybe that's normal for the jet stream in the summer, but it appears to me that somebody is messing with it. As usual, I'm no expert, and I could be wrong. Any experts out there???

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 07-22-2001 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well I can't comment on the world aspect,only my own here,... but every july august here it gets hot and quick and any rain you get look to the sky and thank God !!!!

btw just got back from the rodeo and the action was hot and the beer cold !

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-22-2001 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There seems to be quite a leap being taken with that statement,3T3L1.

Rossby

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-22-2001 01:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With what statement, LTC8K6? I was merely looking for a chance to ask Maverick if he had heard of Tom Bearden and his amazing zero point energy ideas.
http://www.cheniere.org/books/analysis/history.htm

I don't know that Mr. Bearden is a nut. But I haven't heard a great chorus of support for his ideas out there in the military-industrial complex. Bearden says that the Russians have been messing with our weather for decades. Is this possible? If injun is out there lurking, perhaps he could address the issue over at Deb's.

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 07-22-2001 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Others are engaging in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, (and) volcanoes remotely, using the use of electromagnetic waves."

-United States Secretary of Defense William Cohen

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Chem11
megasprayer news


The Homeland
1366 posts, Apr 2001

posted 07-22-2001 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chem11   Visit Chem11's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well hey...where'd everbody go? What happened to this 'world recongnized weather modification ban'? Hmmm?

You remember... the one the eeevil no-deb entity has plastered at the top of her alleged 'forum'?

Reality Check. This is real. Either that or William Cohen is in on 'the hoax'.

I'm getting the feeling a few of you sceptics might have the pill about half way down your throats, right about now.

Swallow it, damn you. This is your country, too.

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TopGun0069
Senior Member


244 posts, Jan 2001

posted 07-22-2001 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TopGun0069   Visit TopGun0069's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope. I'm still here. It wasn't that long ago that 3T3L1 posted her link that I was supposed to read. Well, to be honest, I'm STILL reading it almost a day later! If you really want to tie me up, give me a boring research paper and tell me to read it. I've been drooling all over my computer on and off all day. ZZZZZZZZZZZ.........oops. I'm typing here. Gotta wake up.

No, I hadn't heard of Tom Bearden, and I still don't necessarily know how it's germane to my post.

As far as the jet stream goes, it's common knowledge that the winds aloft die down over the US every summer, or get very heavy in the winter months. That depends on how you look at it. I've got an indicator of the winds that I'm flying through and I've seen winds of less than 10 knots at 40,000 feet in the last few weeks. To the other extreme, I've flown in 120+ knot winds aloft on a cold January day. Try wind-correcting an LGB drop with that kind of crosswind! It's nearly impossible.

3T3L1, if you've noticed the jet stream avoiding Kosovo and China during our repsective incidents with them, have you noticed any other times where the jet stream "avoids" somewhere for a given period? I understand that you are trying to throw in the coincidence factor for Kosovo and China, but have you noticed it for any other time? With the jet stream "dying out" each summer, and the fact that it moves from one spot to another, wouldn't there be other "coincidences" as well? Where was the jet stream when Kennedy was assassinated? Where was it when the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima? Where was it when George Lucas got his lame idea to put Jar Jar Binks in the Star Wars movie?

Also, bear in mind that war planners frequently plan attacks around expected weather conditions, so the coincidence may be just a result of the planning by theater commanders. As far as China goes, we were never planning to attack China, so why would the US government do something to alter the weather around them? To create good weather for satelite imagery, perhaps?

Maverick

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-22-2001 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as the jet stream goes, it's common knowledge that the winds aloft die down over the US every summer

Oh...um...yeah...koff koff...I knew that. Actually I had searched all my internet resources and wasn't able to come up with more than a definition of the jet stream, so I thank you for cluing me in.

As far as Lt. Colonel Bearden, I am most grateful that I've gotten somebody who can speak differential equations to read his stuff. It sounds very highfalutin to me, but I only do biochemistry. I don't know anything about overunity or scalar EM weapons. So, is it plausible that Russia (or whomever) could use scalar EM to heat or cool the atmosphere and move weather systems around at will?

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-22-2001 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the drool on your keyboard hasn't locked it up, you might want to check out this Realplayer presentation by Lt. Col. Bearden.
http://cseti.homesite.net:7071/ramgen/sovietweather.rm

It's 55 minutes long, and is quite old, but it should help you understand why us chemmies have freaked out about the possibility of weather control. According to Bearden, the Russians have been controlling the weather in the U.S. since the 1960's. I don't think Colonel Phillips can post on the Science Forum, but if he can't, I'd be glad to transfer any comments he may have on this question (sans flames) from the Debunkers' site over to the Science Forum.

If you'd like a text summary of the high points, many of Bearden's claims about weather modification can be found here: http://twm.co.nz/Beard_wmod.htm#weather

[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-23-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-23-2001 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For those who haven't heard of Lt. Col. Thomas Bearden's theories of weather modification, here are a couple of paragraphs found at http://twm.co.nz/Beard_wmod.htm#weather

quote:

The anomalous weather worldwide is not accidental. In superpotential theory, which was initiated by a paper by E.T. Whittaker in 1904, it is possible to produce EM force fields and force field energy at a distance. Whittaker 1904 showed that all EM fields and waves can be decomposed into two scalar potential functions. It follows that, by assembling two such scalar potential functions in beams, one can produce a "scalar potential interferometer" where the potential beams intersect at a distance. In that interference zone, ordinary transverse EM fields and energy appear.

Focus the interference zone (IZ) on the other side of the earth (beam right through the earth and ocean) to a given desired area in the atmosphere. Bias your transmitters positively. You produce atmospheric heating in the air in the IZ, so that the air expands and you have produced a "low" pressure zone. Now use a second interferometer biased negatively, and place it at a distant IZ desired. In that IZ, you cool the air so that it shrinks and becomes denser, and you have created a "high" pressure area. Now place several such IZs, with the desired highs and lows, near a jet stream. The jet stream will be deviated toward a low and away from a high. By varying the transmitted energy and the iz location (just move it gradually along), you can entrain and steer the jet streams, and therefore effectively "steer" the resulting weather.


BTW, if you're not used to reading difficult scientific material, this method has worked for me. (If the subject is very far outside your area of familiarity, you simply won't be able to understand it the first time through. No biggie. It happens to me all the time in science.)

(1) Scan over the material and set it aside.
(2) Read straight through the material beginning-to-end and set it aside.
(3) If you are still interested in it, read the material carefully and then ask questions on the points you don't understand. Figuring out whom to ask may be a challenge, but if you are really serious about the particular topic, you will eventually locate someone who can help you.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-23-2001]

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wouldn't listen toThis guy on a double dare

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-23-2001 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why? Specifics, not flames, please.

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The interview speaks for itself. I can say "wingnut", can you?

But hey, if the Russians could already sink the Thresher in 1962 with such weapons, why are we not saying da and nyet? They should have taken us by now.

"...1962 was the Cuban Missile Crisis, as soon as those things got deployed a few months later, in April 1963, he did a tremendous dramatic test of the weaponry. First he killed the U.S.S. Thresher underneath the ocean off the coast of the U.S., left signatures a mile wide."

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-23-2001 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So you're saying that, based on the term "wingnut," scalar EM weapons do not exist and if they do the Russians don't have them?

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you believe the Russians sank the Thresher with such a weapon in 1962? If they did, why haven't they taken out any more of our subs, or threatened to do so to get us out of their waters? Why did they lose in Afghanistan? What about Chechnya? Surely by now they have portables. They have had 40 years to perfect them. They should easily be able to do things like heat up a rifle and detonate the ammo in the magazine. Why don't they? Why doesn't Tom build one, or sell the plans?

They have been selling free energy devices for a hundred + years now, but I still have to pay an electric bill.

These interviews sound much like Al Cuppett, who has a good resume, and is also a wingnut. Where is the evidence? Anyone can talk on and on ad nauseum as long as they don't get questioned. I give you Clifford.

Possible is not probable.

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interview with one LTC Tom Bearden.

**********
Question: Is there any real proof of the internal energy
channel operation of the mind, or is it just all still a
theory or hypothesis?
The basis can be shown, and it is directly subject to
laboratory test, with a decent laboratory and a little
effort. Let me give you a very strong datum point.

There exists a rare, completely bafflingly medical
phenomenon __ which has until recently been concealed __
called hydrancephaly. To the normal materialistic Western
biologist, this condition is astonishing, to say the least.
In hydrancephaly, a person's cranial cavity is filled almost
totally with fluid, not with brain matter. There may be
only 5% or so of the brain in there; typically just the
small portion on the tip of the spine. The other 95% of the
brain case is filled with fluid. Yet the individual may be
as normal as you or I. Except, of course, that x-rays of
his head will astonish all the doctors. A few years ago,
for example, such a hydrancephalic individual graduated from
a university in Great Britain, with a degree in mathematics.
British news actually made a video documentary on this
subject, and particularly on that individual.

Now obviously hydrancephaly proves rather conclusively that
it isn't really the brain matter or the electrical wiggles
in the two hemispheres that constitute the mind. Those
wiggles normally are correlated with, and communicate back
and forth with, the internal Whittaker dynamics of the bio-
potential. The brain is a special communications and
processing station, interfacing sensors and processed stuff
from the external world to the Whittaker-sets, and outputs
from the Whittaker-sets to the body and cells. If just a
small functioning part of this "way station" remains fully
functional, the interfacing still exists.
**********

Yeah, lets get our weapons from him! Let's build a brain-wiggle amplifier.

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-23-2001 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LTC, you sound like a chemmie, relying on logic and inference instead of hard facts.

In the area of medicine, I don't have to rely on logic to refute the good LTC Bearden's statements on hydranencephaly:

Hydranencephaly is a rare condition in which the brain's cerebral hemispheres are absent and replaced by sacs filled with cerebrospinal fluid. An infant with hydranencephaly may appear normal at birth. The infant's head size and spontaneous reflexes such as sucking, swallowing, crying, and moving the arms and legs may all seem normal. However, after a few weeks the infant usually becomes irritable and has increased muscle tone. After a few months of life, seizures and hydrocephalus (excessive accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid in the brain) may develop. Other symptoms may include visual impairment, lack of growth, deafness, blindness, spastic quadriparesis (paralysis), and intellectual deficits. Hydranencephaly is considered to be an extreme form of porencephaly (a rare disorder characterized by a cyst or cavity in the cerebral hemispheres) and may be caused by vascular infections or traumatic disorders after the 12th week of pregnancy. Diagnosis may be delayed for several months because early behavior appears to be relatively normal. Some infants may have additional abnormalities at birth including seizures, myoclonus (spasm or twitching of a muscle or group of muscles), and respiratory problems.

Treatment
There is no definitive treatment for hydranencephaly. Treatment is symptomatic and supportive. Hydrocephalus may be treated with a shunt (a surgically implanted tube that diverts fluid from one pathway to another).

Prognosis
The outlook for children with hydranencephaly is poor. Death generally occurs before age 1.
http://www.fortunecity.com/millenium/rugrats/311/page8.html

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 07-23-2001 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, since we are thread drifting...

http://www.raysofsunshine.org/


From reading the case stories on this site, it appears that the medical community usually doesn't offer much hope for these kids, but many live well past the age of one year. I saw one that was over 10 years old... ...interesting, I never knew...

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I pity your lack of faith in ME, 3T3L1. I relied on friends who are qualified. The quote was only to show what a nut Bearden is. Thermit, Tom Bearden is not reliable, IMO. That is not thread drift.

BTW, 3T3L1, when someone claims that a man with only 5% of his brain left is functioning normally, you don't really need to look that up now, do you? Why would you?

This was my last post on CC.

There is way too much faith here for me, anyway. I still feel like a second class citizen, and I think I made a mistake visiting here again.

Regards,

Wild Bill

Edit: Added ME for the terminally stubborn!



[Edited 1 times, lastly by LTC8K6 on 07-23-2001]

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3T3L1
Differentiated Mouse Fibroblasts


Lubbock, Texas
1347 posts, Mar 2001

posted 07-23-2001 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3T3L1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I pity your lack of faith, 3T3L1.

There is way too much faith here for me, anyway.

?
------------------------------------------
Edit: LTC8K6, did you mean to say:





[Edited 5 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 07-24-2001]

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LTC8K6
35 HOTEL / MOLE / LAME MORON

Tar Heel State
267 posts, Oct 2000

posted 07-23-2001 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LTC8K6     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
O.K., one more.

Your lack of faith in ME, 3T3L1.

Edit: I thought everyone had seen Star Wars.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by LTC8K6 on 07-23-2001]

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