posted 03-22-2003 11:24 AM            

Bend over and spread 'em, citizen. You didn't think the oil companies were going to pay for this slaughter, did you? Note the price of the weapons. I wonder what your local school could do with that kind of money?

posted 03-22-2003 11:25 AM            

I think Bush has better motives than Hitler, but consider

a right wing God &* country party, with strong support by the wealthy, military industrial complex, rabid union haters, anti communists, who think as they are told, hate whom they are told?
Close with quotes from rightwingers:

Reporter: "Governor Bush, what will you say to those Democrats and others who will call you dictator because of the way you took office?"
George W. Bush: (grinning broadly) "As long as I'm their dictator."
Remarks Following a Meeting With Democratic Leaders and an Exchange With Reporters January 22, 2001
"I've just been reminded of something that's really important and is so true....Democrats are just as patriotic about their country as Republicans" George W. Bush- January 22, 2001

posted 03-22-2003 11:37 AM            

How? Simple.. Concentrate wealth and power in the hands of the few...engage in imperialism and neocolonialism through military action..cut services for poor people and yet demonize those who are at the lowest rung in society. Control the media and newspapers.

Not even a completely totalitarian state could pull off something this obvious.

Our country was hijacked a long time ago in the Early 20th Century...It's really hitting home only recently in the last ten years.

Ex; NAFTA, GATT, WTO etc.....all designed to destroy national sovereignty for corporate profits.

posted 03-22-2003 11:47 AM            

By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030322/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_legality&cid=540&ncid=1480

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration says the war in Iraq is lawful, an assessment disputed by many skeptical foreign leaders and international law scholars.

It is a a debate that U.S. officials hope will subside once Saddam Hussein is toppled and a new government in power.

But the criticism is just as likely to intensify if the war is prolonged and if there are many civilian casualties.

Television images beamed around the world of the massive American aerial bombardment of Baghdad, showing dozens of buildings going up in flames, probably did not help the U.S. case in the court of public opinion, analysts suggested. Nor did pictures of angry Arabs protesting in the Middle Eastern, screaming "Death to America," or images U.S. troops briefly raising the American flag over a seized Iraqi city.

The administration says Iraqis will be better off once Saddam is removed and insists that its cause is just. Convincing the rest of the world that the U.S. and British-led war is both just and lawful is a hard sell.

"Without corresponding resolutions of the U.N. Security Council, this occupation will be illegal," Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov told Russian lawmakers last week as U.S. and British troops crossed into Iraq.

Diane Orentlicher, professor of international law at American University, said that "most of the world believes that the war does violate international law."

Even so, the dynamics changed dramatically once bombs began falling, Orentlicher said. "It's not in anybody's interest to challenge a decision that's already been made, when there's no possibility for changing it," she said. "At this point, I think most countries see their common interest is in not having a long, bloody war."

The war can win belated international legitimacy, particularly if Iraq is found to have weapons of mass destruction as the administration contends, some analysts say.

That could turn public opinion in Washington's favor if accompanied by a military campaign "that goes relatively quickly and with low numbers of casualties," said Kurt Campbell of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

The United States argues that U.N. resolution 1441, passed unanimously in November, provided sufficient authority for the U.S.-led war. That resolution threatened Baghdad with "serious consequences" if it failed to show it had handed over or destroyed its weapons of mass destruction.

Facing threatened vetoes by permanent Security Council members France and Russia, the United States and allies Britain and Spain withdrew a second resolution that would have given U.N. approval for the use of military force.

President Bush signaled that he did not want to waste time in debating the nuances of international law. "It is not a question of authority, it is a question of will," he told the nation.

The U.N. charter authorizes the Security Council to permit force "to maintain or restore international peace and security." It also allows nations to use force individually in cases of self-defense against an armed attack — or against an imminent attack.

Critics of the war and some legal scholars argue Iraq did not pose such a threat to the United States.

Bush threatened war-crimes prosecution for Iraqi soldiers who followed illegal orders, but failed to grasp that the war itself violates international law, said Philip Alston, a law professor at New York University and former U.N. human rights official.

"It opens the door for every country to take the law into its own hands and launch pre-emptive military strikes without any universally binding restraints," Alston said.

The administration rejects such notions and says its position will be validated by both law and history.

"You're going to find the historians, legal scholars will have differing conclusions about these matters," said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer. He also said Bush decided to use force after concluding that "Iraq's failure to disarm presented a threat to the people of the United States."

posted 03-22-2003 11:50 AM            

LONDON (Reuters) - Four U.S soldiers were killed on Saturday in central Iraq , according to a reporter from Britain's Sky TV who was traveling with them.

Journalist Colin Brazier said the reconnaissance scouts were ambushed while driving Humvee jeeps at the head of a column.

"Rocket-propelled grenades were fired, one at each Humvee, (they) killed both sets of occupants," he said in a brief live report on TV.

"There was a position we were heading to for refueling at about the same time -- it was clearly a coordinated attack...that came under mortar fire," he added.

posted 03-22-2003 03:57 PM               

roflmao !!! The UN!!!
oh yeah America has NO clue what we are into.

posted 03-22-2003 04:26 PM            

SO MUCH FOR REBUILDING AFGANISTAN..........

IS THIS IRAQ'S FATE?

posted 03-22-2003 04:36 PM            

Anti-war protests sweep the globe

Thousands held a peaceful protest in Bern
Tens of thousands of people worldwide have taken to the streets to stage the latest series of demonstrations against the conflict in Iraq.

There have been rallies in Australia and New Zealand, the Middle East and Asia, while in the US marches are planned in Washington and other major cities.

Demonstrations are also being held in Paris, Brussels and London, where protesters gathered in the city's Hyde Park for an afternoon of speeches.

Some protests turned violent. In Brussels riot police tried to prevent protesters who hurled rocks and sticks at the US embassy from getting too close to the building, later using water cannon on a small number who split from the main protest.

Mass protest in New York

In New York City, around 100,000 people marched at lunchtime from Times Square to Greenwich Village's Washington Square Park, filling 20 city blocks.

A few clashes took place as police chased and surrounded a small group who broke away from the main march.

"We support the troops, but we do not support the president," said New York Congressman Charles Rangel.

In Washington, several hundred protesters, chanting "No blood for oil," strode through the streets and rallied in front of the White House.

But pro-war rallies were also reported in some cities, like Atlanta, Chicago, and Lansing, Michigan.

Recent polls have suggested increasing support for the war among the US public.

Pope's plea

As 10,000 anti-war protesters marched through the Italian city of Naples towards a Nato base in Bagnoli, Pope John Paul II made his first public comment on the conflict.

An Indonesian protester outside the US embassy in Jakarta
In Jakarta, demonstrators gathered at the US embassy

"When war, like the one now in Iraq, threatens the fate of humanity, it is even more urgent for us to proclaim, with a firm and decisive voice, that only peace is the way of building a more just and caring society," he said.

In Wellington, New Zealand protesters shouting "no blood for oil" marched to the US embassy and hurled fake blood into the compound.

The Australian cities of Brisbane and Hobart were brought to a halt.

"We feel sympathy with the people of Iraq, and the families of Iraq. That's why we're here supporting the families," said one demonstrator.

'Evil aggression'

In Indonesia, a crowd converged on the US embassy in Jakarta, shouting anti-US slogans.

Anti-war protestors in Seoul, South Korea
People took to the streets in Seoul

"We condemn the evil aggression against Iraq. Bush, Blair and Howard should be brought to the international court of justice as war criminals," Hizb ut Tahrir, the Muslim group which organised the rally, said in a statement.

There were protests, too, in Malaysia, South Korea and India.

In the South Korean capital, Seoul, Buddhist monks struck giant drums at a rally of 2,000 people to console the spirits of victims of the war.

And India saw about 15,000 people march in Calcutta, where speakers attacked the US for its "anti-Islamic" war, Reuters news agency reported.

In Bangladesh, a general strike closed down many businesses and mosques, while in the southern mainly Muslim provinces of Thailand people organised prayers for peace.

In Japan, protesters rallied near a US naval base as well as outside a US air base on the southern island of Okinawa.

Europe protests

Europe saw some of the largest demonstrations, with hundreds of thousands of British citizens taking part in demonstrations across the country.

In London, marchers wound their way through central London and past Downing Street, the official residence of British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, before arriving at Hyde Park, where speakers denounced what they called US unilateralism.

However the turnout, put at several hundred thousand, was less than anticipated.

Protests in the Swiss capital, Bern, were tense after police used water cannon, rubber bullets and tear gas against a group of hooded demonstrators, said to be from a radical faction.

In Athens, Greece, demonstrators outside the US embassy threw two Molotov cocktails onto the embassy lawn.

An estimated 20,000 people attended a rally in front of the Swiss parliament, the French news agency AFP reported.

And in Vienna, Austria, demonstrators threw themselves to the ground to the sound of specially pre-recorded gunshots, and staged a "die-in" in protest at the conflict.

posted 03-22-2003 10:12 PM            

My thoughts on Mech's picture of the girl,
COLLATERAL DAMAGE, I feel bad it happened but you'll have that sometimes during war.

The people who escaped Hitler's death camps have already seen their little piece of hell as have all war veterans, my hats off to them.

Nobel prize winners? If they contributed to medicine or helped feed the worlds starving people my hats off to them also.

As for unpatriotic people in this country, I'm going to have to reserve my comments as I do not want to be banned from posting here. Everyone is entitled to their opinions

posted 03-22-2003 10:31 PM            

You call the photo "collateral damage".

posted 03-22-2003 11:00 PM            

O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells;
help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead
help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain;

help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire;

help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief;
help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst,

sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it

-- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

posted 03-22-2003 11:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Proud Veteran:
[B]Already had that conversation with Vietnam Vets. Drank a lot of beer and talked for hours on this. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion I don't know about you but my friends are civilized and aren't ready to kick ass if there is a disagreement of opinions, especially on war.

---

Sure sounds like you'd like to off "Un-Americans" who think Bush is a traitorous bastard. Does Swamp Gas qualify since I'm not a military vet? Why do you attack Mech as being un-American. From my POV, he's defending the original plan.

I am a Freedom Fighter and Constitutionalist. And before you pass judgement, I've been a diabetic for 45 years. so I couldn't go even if I wanted to. I fight for justice, not OIL COMPANIES AND DEFENCE CONTRACTORS.

posted 03-23-2003 09:48 AM            

PATRIOT MISSLE SHOOTS DOWN BRITISH JET

posted 03-23-2003 12:25 PM            

I like to pick on Mech because this person seems to be one who lets little things like words bother them and get upset over nothing. People like that have a lot to learn. I really don't care what ANYBODY says or thinks about me. I know what I know and believe what I want to believe, everyone else can either like me or hate me I don't worry about it either way If they ( the government ) wants to check me out they are welcome to, I have nothing to hide. If you are worried about them checking you out then you must have something to hide. The government needs to have measures in place to check out everyone in this country after 9/11.

Our borders have been open for quite a while and we have welcomed people from all nations to come and enjoy the freedom and democracy we have here in the United States. After 9/11 I feel that a certain trust has been shattered and we need to take out any faction who thinks they can push this great country, or other free nations around. If you live in the United States of America then by damned you should support any effort to rid this country of all who want to harm us. If that means going overseas to take out a regime the supports terrorism so be it. If it means taking out civilians who support terrorism here in the states so be it.