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  Gulf War II (Page 37)

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Topic:   Gulf War II

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-16-2003 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

U.S. Bans Media from Anti-American protests

April 16 2003 BAGHDAD

US forces yesterday tried to stop the media from covering a third day of anti-American protests by Iraqis outside a hotel housing a US operations base, according to a reporter at the scene.

Up to 300 Iraqis gathered outside the Palestine Hotel to express rage at what they said was the US failure to restore order after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.

For the first time, visibly angered US military officials sought to distance the media from the protest, moving reporters and cameras about 30 metres from the barbed-wired entrance to the hotel.

"We want you to pull back to the back of the hotel because they (the Iraqis) are only performing because the media are here," said a marines colonel who would not give his first name or title.

The crowd later moved to the nearby square where a statue of Saddam was toppled last Wednesday, signalling the end of the regime. The Iraqis chanted: "No, no, USA."

Tension has been rising in front of the hotel, where Iraqis protest against a lack of police protection, water, electricity and other basic services.

As the protest grew more vocal, a marines corporal held an impromptu briefing for a few reporters about progress in bringing Iraq back to normal.

Corporal John Hoellwarth said the US forces planned to boost joint police patrols, bring more hospitals back into service and restore power to parts of Baghdad within 72 hours.


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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 04-17-2003]

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Agent Provocateur

588 posts, Nov 2002

posted 04-16-2003 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
US Army Psychological Operations command decided to combine all Iraqi POWs into large groups and to distribute the resulting video footage to the world media. A more active use of the Iraqi opposition was suggested for propaganda work in the occupied villages. The same opposition members will be used to create video footage of the "repented" Iraqi POWs and footage of the local [Iraqi] population "opposing Saddam."

The same faces in town after town tearing down statues and praising herr bush.
moving with the camera crews to film the propaganda.
Americans should demand the truth.
The most intelligent among us know we are being lied to.

I choose to not step into that namecalling cesspool, bushistas.

Many legion posts are dominated by bushistas
who shout down all freethinkers

I just quit one post to take a life membership in another.


American respect for freedom of speech/vs mindless ziegheiling.

"We serve so that others have the right to demonstrate against the politicians who sit safe at home while they send us to fight their wars."- Rick Bennett Lcpl 3rd Marine 1st Recon- Cambodia (agreeing with Sgt Gatley
in his Houston TX vision of America)
Best man I ever met

"We tried to get the US to help us form a democratic gov't.
They refused."--'Shau Lee' (VC area commander)
Nixon 1954 to Bush 2003 --Northwoods over & over

both parties/ same "defense" contractors
Northwoods over & over PR wag the dog wars

Eisenhower was right.
Defense contractors buy chickenhawks to
generate profits.
"Wag the Gulf 2" is payback for buying the WH
for that deserter
US Army Psychological Operations command decided to combine all Iraqi POWs into large groups and to distribute the resulting video footage to the world media. A more active use of the Iraqi opposition was suggested for propaganda work in the occupied villages. The same opposition members will be used to create video footage of the "repented" Iraqi POWs and footage of the local [Iraqi] population "opposing Saddam."

The most intelligent among us know we are being lied to.

The same faces in town after town tearing down statues and praising herr bush.
moving with the camera crews to film the propaganda.
Americans should demand the truth.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by shatoga on 04-16-2003]

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Senior Member

832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 04-17-2003 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I knew my response regarding Halliburton and the war-for-oil argument, was so damn good that it would completely cripple Mech's ability to even continue with the point. The truth is a powerful weapon, and when confronted with truth, Mech has no choice but to change the subject and ignore we see here. Typical of the disingenuous, dishonest type of person with shallow mentality based upon total ignorance and delusions that shares Mech’s views….Totally unable to back up or explain those views.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 04-17-2003]

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Baloney...Halliburton, Bechtel and KBR will make big bucks off of this war. You just refuse to look at the FACTS presented on these last 36 or so pages Fastwalker. Instead you blurb on about how they have nothing to do with it. LOL!


I can put it in a nutshell.

Bush--Harken Energy,Carlyle group

Cheney-- Halliburton, Kellog Brown and Root.

Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice-- Chevron--Had an OIL TANKER named after her.

Something IS WRONG with this picture.


Iran attacks US and braces for nuclear dispute

Dan De Luce in Tehran
Thursday April 17, 2003
The Guardian,12858,938205,00.html

The Iranian president Mohammad Khatami yesterday lashed out at America for its aggressive stance, stating that Tehran would not recognise a US-installed administration in Iraq and warning Iran would support Syria were it attacked.

"We will not recognise any administration other than an all-Iraqi government. However, we are not seeking tension or confrontation with anybody," he said.

Mr Khatami added: "The Iraqi nation will not accept any foreign rule." His comments come at a time of increasing tension for Iran, which faces pressure from Britain and the European Union over its nuclear programme amid concerns that Tehran may be close to producing a nuclear bomb.

With the end of the war in Iraq, international attention is shifting to Iran, which has denied it has a weapons programme but has so far refused to agree to a more intrusive UN inspections regime.

Western governments fear Iran no longer requires outside technical expertise to manufacture a nuclear weapon and may be planning eventually to withdraw from its international obligations under the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.

The fear among some western diplomats and analysts is that the increasingly belligerent stance of Washington towards Iran and Syria may backfire and push Tehran to speed up its weapons programme. Mr Khatami yesterday made a point of rallying to Syria's side.

"Syria is on the frontline against Zionist pressures, defending the cause of the Palestinian nation, freedom and peace in the region. We will defend Syria, but it doesn't mean we will engage in military confrontation," he said.

The UN International Atomic Energy Agency has demanded unfettered access to Iran's nuclear programme to investigate declared and undeclared sites that would indicate whether Iran is attempting to produce weapons-grade plutonium.

But Iran has refused to sign up to the non-proliferation treaty's "additional protocol", drafted after the 1991 Gulf war.

Iranian officials have said they would be willing to agree to the "go anywhere" inspections regime only if trade sanctions were lifted, allowing access to technical assistance for the nuclear programme.

For the US, which has had no diplomatic relations with Iran for more than two decades, such a compromise is out of the question. Iran insists its programme is purely for peaceful purposes and is designed to meet a growing domestic demand for electricity.

But concerns in the west about Iran's nuclear ambitions were reinforced after an uranium enrichment facility was revealed last year and when Tehran announced plans to mine uranium ore and reprocess its own nuclear fuel.

Arms proliferation experts say Iran has no need for such an extensive uranium enrichment facility because Russia has agreed to provide all the fuel necessary for a nuclear power plant under construction in Bushehr.

Iran has tried to develop a nuclear programme since the 1980s but the US managed to block Tehran's attempts to find a western European partner. With Pakistan, India and Israel possessing nuclear weapons and flouting the non-proliferation treaty, conservative clerics ruling Iran may see the nuclear programme as a deterrent, analysts say.

UN inspectors have been visiting various sites for the past month, and the IAEA is due to deliver a decision in June on whether Iran has broken the non-proliferation treaty.

Since it was named last year by the US as part of the "axis of evil", along with North Korea and the former regime in Iraq, Iran has avoided any confrontation with Washington and stayed out of the war at its doorstep.

As a counter to US pressure, Iran has cultivated relations with the EU, and with Britain in particular.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Mech on 04-17-2003]

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Embedded Photographer: "I Saw Marines Kill Civilians"

for Le Monde

Translated for CounterPunch by NORMAN MADARASZ

Laurent Van der Stockt, a photographer working for the Gamma agency and under contract for the New York Times Magazine, followed the advance of the 3/4 Marines (3rd battalion, 4th regiment) for three weeks, up to the taking of Baghdad on April 9. He was accompanied by New York Times Magazine editor, Peter Maas. Born in Belgium in 1964, Laurent Van der Stockt mainly works in conflict zones: the first Gulf War, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Africa and the Occupied Territories. This is his eyewitness account of the Marines' march to Baghdad:

"Everything began at the Kuwait/Iraq border. I forced my way into the country and arrived at Safwan. American soldiers had seized the opportunity to tear up portraits of Saddam Hussein on the main street. They were doing this right in front of the local inhabitants, whose elation quickly vanished. The soldiers obviously didn't imagine that it was up to the Iraqis to be doing this, or that it was humiliating for them. These were the same soldiers who would topple down Saddam's statue in Baghdad three weeks later...

I understood that the Marines' general strategy was to not waste any time. In the cities they crossed, the Marines had to make a show of force. Then they would resume their advance by going as fast as possible up by the east through the desert, and avoid any contact with the population. It takes an effort to picture what an army looks like as it advances through the sands. It's an anthill. It's more than a city on the march. It's a world whose extremities are never seen. It's a cutting edge, mechanical version of Julius Caesar's army.

During the first few days, with colleagues from the New York Times and Newsweek, I tried to follow the convoys in a SUV by playing hide-and-seek. We were spending a lot of time then with the 1 500 Marines of the _, commanded by Colonel Bryan P. McCoy. His troops gave us water, gas and food. In exchange for their tolerance, we respected the rules to not pass the convoy and to camp at such and such a place. We were just barely tolerated. The colonel could see that the 'few jokers were behaving well'. He knew we had experienced more wars than his own troops.

For McCoy, we were obviously interesting right from the start. We were the ones who could tell his story. Trust settled in between us. He let us drive at the head of the convoy. The Marines are generally less privileged than the army. They're trained to do the dirty work, the less honorary jobs. They have the oldest tanks, and the least up-to-date M16 rifles. They themselves translate 'USMC' (United States Marine Corps) by United States Misgodded Children, i.e. the US' forgotten children, forgotten by God.

Their motto is 'Search and Kill'. The 'Kilo' unit is nicknamed 'Killer Kilo'. The words 'Carnivore' or 'Blind Killer' are painted on their tanks. McCoy could snap with a 'Shame on You' ­ a smile flashing across his face ­ to the sniper who had just finished telling him: 'I've got eight, Sir, but only five'. Literally meaning: I've shot eight, but only five of them are dead.

I've never seen a war with so few 'returns'. The Iraqi army was like a ghost. It barely existed. Over the three weeks, I only saw the adversary fire a few short-range rockets and a few shots. I saw deserted trenches, a dead Iraqi soldier lying next to a piece of bread and some old equipment. Nothing that really made you feel that there was a real confrontation going on, nothing comparable to the massiveness of the means at the Americans' disposal.

On April 6, we were at the outskirts of Baghdad, facing a strategic bridge the Americans called 'the Baghdad Highway Bridge'. Residential zones were now much greater in number. American snipers got the order to kill anything coming in their direction. That night a teenager who was crossing the bridge was killed.

On the morning of April 7, the Marines decided to cross the bridge. A shell fell onto an armored personnel carrier. Two marines were killed. The crossing took on a tragic aspect. The soldiers were stressed, febrile. They were shouting. The risk didn't appear to be that great, so I followed their advance. They were howling, shouting orders and positions to each other. It sounded like something in-between a phantasm, mythology and conditioning. The operation was transformed into crossing the bridge over the River Kwai.

Later, there was some open terrain. The Marines were advancing and taking up position, hiding behind mounds of earth. They were still really tense. A small blue van was moving towards the convoy. Three not-very-accurate warning shots were fired. The shots were supposed to make the van stop. The van kept on driving, made a U-turn, took shelter and then returned slowly. The Marines opened fire. All hell broke loose. They were firing all over the place. You could hear 'Stop firing' being shouted. The silence that set in was overwhelming. Two men and a woman had just been riddled with bullets. So this was the enemy, the threat.

A second vehicle drove up. The same scenario was repeated. Its passengers were killed on the spot. A grandfather was walking slowly with a cane on the sidewalk. They killed him too (SEE PHOTO IN LE MONDE). As with the old man, the Marines fired on a SUV driving along the river bank that was getting too close to them. Riddled with bullets, the vehicle rolled over. Two women and a child got out, miraculously still alive. They sought refuge in the wreckage. A few seconds later, it flew into bits as a tank lobbed a terse shot into it.

Marines are conditioned to reach their target at any cost, by staying alive and facing any type of enemy. They abusively make use of disproportionate firepower. These hardened troops, followed by tons of equipment, supported by extraordinary artillery power, protected by fighter jets and cutting-edge helicopters, were shooting on local inhabitants who understood absolutely nothing of what was going on.

With my own eyes I saw about fifteen civilians killed in two days. I've gone through enough wars to know that it's always dirty, that civilians are always the first victims. But the way it was happening here, it was insane.

At the roughest moment, the most humane of the troops was called Doug. He gave real warning shots. From 800 yards he could hit a tire and, if that wasn't enough, then the motor. He saved ten lives in two hours by driving back civilians who were coming towards us.

Distraught soldiers were saying: 'I ain't prepared for this, I didn't come here to shoot civilians.' The colonel countered that the Iraqis were using inhabitants to kill marines, that 'soldiers were being disguised as civilians, and that ambulances were perpetrating terrorist attacks.'

I drove away a girl who had had her humerus pierced by a bullet. Enrico was holding her in his arms. In the rear, the girl's father was protecting his young son, wounded in the torso and losing consciousness. The man spoke in gestures to the doctor at the back of the lines, pleading: "I don't understand, I was walking and holding my children's hands. Why didn't you shoot in the air? Or at least shoot me?"

In Baghdad, McCoy sped up the march. He stopped taking the time to search houses one-by-one. He wanted to get to Paradise Place as soon as possible. The Marines were not firing on the thickening population. The course ended with Saddam's statue being toppled. There were more journalists at the scene than Baghdadis. Its five million inhabitants stayed at home."

Interviewed by Michel Guerrin for LE MONDE, April 12, 2003.

Translated for CounterPunch by Norman Madarasz (

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

American soldiers fire on political rally, killing at least 10 civilians
By Patrick Cockburn in northern Iraq

16 April 2003

American soldiers killed at least 10 Iraqis and wounded dozens of others yesterday when they reportedly fired on a political rally in Mosul. "There are perhaps 100 wounded and 10 or 12 dead," said Ayad al-Ramadhani, director of the Republican Hospital in Mosul.

The shooting of civilians will further sour the mood in Iraq, where there were three other protests yesterday against an American occupation.

The events leading up to the deaths are still unclear. Said Altah, another doctor at the hospital, said: "The wounded say that the crowd was listening to a speech by the new governor, Mihsan al-Jaburi." Mr Jaburi is a member of the Iraqi opposition who entered the northern city with Kurdish forces last week.

Mr Jaburi had said that co-operation with the Americans was necessary. This angered the crowd and, in circumstances still unexplained, the troops fired. An American military spokesman said that the troops were fired on before they returned fire.

Kurdistan Television said last night that five people had been killed and hundreds wounded during the anti-American demonstration.

The Arabs of Mosul, where they are the majority, were already angry at the sacking of the city last week, which they blame on the Kurds although Kurdish leaders deny that any of their regular forces had entered the city at the time. Many people blame the mass looting that followed the city's capture on America, which had sent most of its troops to secure the oilfields of Kirkuk and had none available for Mosul.

Mosul has become calmer in the past few days, as armed residents organised by the mosques have blocked off streets and set up checkpoints to prevent looting. But the Arab part of the city, which has a Kurdish minority, is festooned with Iraqi flags, though this is an assertion of Iraqi nationalism rather than a sign of support for Saddam Hussein.

The American forces in northern Iraq appear to have been taken unawares by the rapidly changing political situation – last week, one Kurdish party sent its forces to capture Kirkuk, also in the north, contrary to previous agreements. They also appear to have believed that hostility to President Saddam by Iraqis automatically implied that they were pro-American. The Kurds, though dependent on their alliance with the United States, are struck by the Allied forces' inability to help restore essential services such as electricity and water supplies.

Mosul, a city of 700,000 people that has been a crossroads of cultures for thousands of years, is regarded as a microcosm of Iraq and an important test of efforts to create a plural democratic society.

Kurdish leaders are desperately trying to stave off a crisis between Kurds and Arabs in ethnically mixed cities such as Mosul. The most powerful Kurdish figure, Massoud Barzani of the Kurdistan Democratic Party, issued a statement yesterday warning Kurds not to "attack the property, life or integrity of any Arab citizen".

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 12:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

The men who make Iraq war possible

4:48pm Tue Apr 15th, 2003

We owe General Amos Gilad, Israeli national defence spokesman, for doing Bush the disservice of openly stating that the war of aggression o­n Iraq "is in the service of Israel", which is something our organisations have suggested for many long months but which has not been brought to the fore even by the international anti-war movement.

As reported by AFP o­n April 7, Gen Gilad said: "A very large threat which was hanging over Israel's eastern border has disappeared…without Iraq, there is no longer the possibility of a united Arab front o­n our eastern border.

"Saddam's regime was a threat to us. It's disappearance bolsters American hegemony in the region and deprives Syria of its strategic rear."

Then Ari Shavit writes in the Israel daily Haaretz (‘White man's burden’) that the belief in the war in Iraq, "that ardent faith, was disseminated by a group of 25 or 30 neo-conservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate o­ne another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history".

He goes o­n to say that the war of aggression "is being fought to consolidate a new world order, to create a new Middle East". Kristol is quoted as saying that "the choice is between extremist Islam, secular fascism or democracy".

The war is based o­n a new ‘American’ understanding of which they've convinced Mr Bush "that if the US does not shape the world in its image, the world will shape the US in its image".

Krauthammer insists that "the US must implement an aggressive policy of pre-emption". The group envisaged a war won quickly and without a bloodbath which would make the US a colossus that would dictate the world order.

In further substantiation of the power of this Zionist-Jewish-right-wing Christian alliance, Thomas Friedman is quoted as saying "...could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened".

And then read Michael Linds’ ‘The weird men behind George W Bush's war’ (New Statesman, April 7, 2003) who writes of a largely Jewish-American movement which morphed "into a kind of militaristic and imperial right with no precedents in American culture or political history", people who admire "Israeli Likud party tactics, including preventive warfare".

"The neo-con defence intellectuals, as well as being in or around the actual Pentagon, are at the centre of a metaphorical ‘pentagon’ of the Israel lobby and the religious right, plus conservative think-tanks, foundations and media empires. Think-tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) and the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) provide homes for neo-con ‘in-and-outers’ when they are out of government (Perle is a fellow at AEI).

"The major link between the conservative think-tanks and the Israel lobby is the Washington-based and Likud-supporting Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (Jinsa), which co-opts many non-Jewish defence experts by sending them o­n trips to Israel.

It flew out the retired General Jay Garner, now slated by Bush to be proconsul of occupied Iraq. In October 2000, he co-signed a Jinsa letter that began: ‘We believe that during the current upheavals in Israel, the Israel defence forces have exercised remarkable restraint in the face of lethal violence orchestrated by the leadership of [the] Palestinian Authority.’

"The Israel lobby itself is divided into Jewish and Christian wings. Wolfowitz and Feith have close ties to the Jewish-American Israel lobby. Wolfowitz, who has relatives in Israel, has served as the Bush administration's liaison to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.

"Feith was given an award by the Zionist Organisation of America, citing him as a "pro-Israel activist". While out of power in the Clinton years, Feith collaborating with Perle, co-authored for Likud a policy paper that advised the Israeli government to end the Oslo peace process, reoccupy the [Palestinian] territories and crush Yasser Arafat's government."

It was Cheney who positioned these dangerous hard-liners including Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Bolton and Libby to counter Secretary of State Powell and others. They took advantage of Bush's ignorance and inexperience and Southern Christian fundamentalism which admires macho Israeli soldiers and is fervently Christian-Zionist.

In the service of Israel, Wolfowitz and others in the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) urged the invasion of Iraq throughout the Clinton years. In signed public letters, they called o­n the US to invade and occupy Iraq, to bomb Hezbollah bases in Lebanon and to threaten states such as Syria and Iran with US attacks.

If we're effectively to struggle against this dangerous ‘new world order’, we must know well the nature of the beast.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 04-17-2003]

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

17 Apr 2003 13:52:11 GMT
U.S. digs, searches in vain for Iraqi chemical weapons

By Adrian Croft

NASSIRIYA, Iraq, April 17 (Reuters) - A U.S. military excavator shovels another load of mud on to a canal bank near the southern Iraqi city of Nassiriya, cutting a deep trench.

The mechanical digger strikes a slab of concrete, raising hopes this could be a hidden dump of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction -- a nuclear, biological or chemical "smoking gun" to help justify the U.S.-led war to oust the Iraqi leader.

Nothing is found.

After days of intense digging and searching at least seven suspicious sites near Nassiriya, U.S. experts have found chemical warfare protective suits, but no chemical weapons.

Chief Warrant Officer Alex Robinson, leading the U.S. search in the area, admitted on Thursday that his list of suspect sites in southern Iraq was "kind of drying up".

"I guess the main focus of effort is around Baghdad and maybe a little bit to the north and the west where they think a lot of the WMD (weapons of mass destruction) have been secreted or the labs are located underground," he told Reuters.

Robinson said his team's various inspections had found an antidote to nerve gas, but had otherwise turned up "regular laboratory chemicals that you'd find in a high school lab."

A trailer at the back of a military hospital, suspected of being a mobile chemical weapons laboratory, turned out to be a cooking trailer, while a laboratory the U.S. team visited was for research into concrete and asphalt work, he said.

"Those are the kind of tip-offs we get. We don't want to discount anything. The one you don't go to look at will be the one that has whatever it is you want to find," said Robinson, who comes from Carlsbad, California.

Many of the tips come from local residents, convinced that mustard gas or other lethal weapons were being produced at the sites, he said.

Washington's conviction that, despite his denials, Saddam retained weapons of mass destruction -- from lethal gases to deadly nerve agents -- and was ready to use them was the main justification for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

"We went to look at four missiles lying on the ground the other day (and) a house that had a bunch of canisters that were like little chemical containers strewn throughout and a whole bunch of NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) gear," he said.

No chemical weapons were found at either site.

The canisters turned out to be for chlorine, which could be a component of toxic gas but in this case was probably used to purify water, Robinson said.

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posted 04-17-2003 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for babazula   Email babazula     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Already been to Turkey once....Antalya in fact.
Beautiful country with nice mountains and a lot of Roman ruins scattered everywhere.Good people.

No thanks. Kind of dangerous there right now for Americans.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 04-17-2003]

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Senior Member

832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 04-17-2003 02:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Uh, that’s the problem with such a well documented, televised war, Mech. You can’t get away with lies like yours (from a leftist French tabloid). It’s difficult to lie when we’ve been watching this war as it unfolded and REAL embedded troops were there to cover the REAL story….LIVE….not some leftist French America haters in SUVs spinning and fabricating events to suit their fancy. Here is the real story;

American’s have been unbelievably professional. Did it occur to you that some of those civilians left those vehicles alive, due to the professionalism of our soldiers who were able to discern the enemy from the human shield even in the heat of the moment being attacked by suicide bombers? Incredible human discipline under the most difficult situation. These Americans deserve medals…for the heroics of making the best decisions possible under impossible conditions. Even the most jaded, hardcore idiot realizes by now that Saddam’s strategy was to put women and children as human shields in harm’s way….but you don’t seem to get it yet. You are a sick, twisted, deluded America hater, Mech…who buys into every bit of enemy spin and propaganda that comes off the spin machine. You are a gullible twit…..a classic useful idiot of the enemies of America.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 04-17-2003]

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another "lie" for Fastwalker


London, April 17 - Diseases like dysentery are spreading in Basra as a result of a lack of clean drinking water, doctors in Iraq's second city warned in British media reports Wednesday.

Reports from British forces and correspondents in southern Iraq said hospitals in Basra had seen a sharp rise in cases of dysentery and gastroenteritis since the outbreak of war.

Iraqis in some areas of the city claimed they had not clean water for more than 20 days, and had been forced to drink from the river.

The first aid convoys were due to enter Basra Wednesday, and British troops have distributed clean water, but many within the city are sick.

Children and babies have been worst hit and are suffering the effects of dehydration.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 04-17-2003]

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One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3297 posts, Jul 2000

posted 04-17-2003 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah but they were getting "hit" by saddam and his boys for 30 years...

Report: 3,000 Graves in Kirkuk
Newsmax Wires
Thursday, April 17, 2003
KIRKUK, Iraq -- Kurdish satellite television reported Wednesday it has found a cemetery filled with an estimated 3,000 unmarked shallow graves, located at a Kirkuk military camp.
The northern Iraq oil city was taken over by Kurdish and U.S. forces on April 10. The city is the starting point for the pipeline that carries crude to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, one of two loading points for tankers hauling crude under the U.N. oil-for-food program.

Kurds have re-occupied the city since the departure of Iraqi forces. Satellite television for Iraqi Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, one of two major Kurdish parties, was led to the grave by a Kurdish resident.

The graves were filled by people buried in civilian clothes, and are believed to have been civilians, the news outlet said according to a translation by British Broadcast Corp. The cemetery was located at the southern edge of the road to a large Iraqi military position, near the house of slain Iraqi Ali Hassan al-Majid, so-called "Chemical Ali," who is accused of killing more than 100,000 Kurds in a chemical weapon strike in 1988, was killed April 5 in a coalition strike.

Also Wednesday, the secretary-general of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, one of two major Kurdish parties, requested no one tamper with mass graves due to the risk of disturbing evidence. The PUK announcement called on Kurds and the group's Peshmerga Forces to inform government departments and party centers of any mass graves they may find, who in turn would alert the appropriate experts.

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Israel Approaches Turkey for Reactivation of Mosul-Haifa Pipeline
Thursday, April 17 2003 @ 08:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time

Istanbul, TURKEY, April 17, 2003 - Israel has made an offer to Turkish contacting firms to reactivate the Mosul-Haifa pipeline, which has been closed for the last 55 years. Not only the Israeli government but also Israeli firms have reportedly approached Turkish companies for an oil pipeline that would provide transportation of 5 million barrels of oil from northern Iraq to the Israeli port of Haifa.

Turkish Contractors Union Chairman Nihat Ozdemir confirmed the offers from Israel and noted that a considerable part of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline construction had been carried out by Turkish firms. Pointing out that Turkish construction firms had important experience in the subject of international oil transportation, Ozdemir said that it was "normal" that Turkish firms had been chosen to rebuild the pipeline.

Uncensored* Sanli / Istanbul / TURKEY

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-17-2003 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In bombed neighborhoods, everyone 'wants to kill Americans'

Knight Ridder Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - In Baghdad's al Kharnouq neighborhood, five unexploded American-made cluster bomblets perch precariously in Qusai Abdel Majid's lemon tree and the flower bed beneath it. Stepping carefully, one can follow a trail of dozens of the 2-inch-long black bombs that have killed four of his neighbors so far.

"There was no military here to put the bombs on us. So, I imagine, they wanted to kill us," said Abdel Majid, 43, who is afraid to let his children play in the yard.

In the al Adhamiya neighborhood, men point to fallen walls, collapsed roofs and smashed cars riddled with bullet holes. They speak swiftly and angrily.

"A year ago, on these streets, we would have yawned if someone had mentioned America to us," Khalid Tarah said. "Now, look what they have done to us. Everyone feels this pain. Everyone here now wants to kill. Everyone here now wants to kill Americans."

At the end of the U.S. military's first week in Baghdad, gunfire of uncertain origin continued sporadically throughout the day Tuesday, picking up late at night, but looting had all but subsided. The Army's 101st Airborne Division said it was considering an 11 p.m.-to-dawn curfew in an effort to control the gunfire, but Marines who occupy the portions of Baghdad east of the Tigris River said they had no such plan.

Elements of the 4th Infantry Division drove through town on their way from Kuwait to northern Iraq, and were greeted by smiling and waving Baghdadis.

But many Baghdadis were angry as they talked about the destruction in their neighborhoods.

"The people are paying for this war, not Saddam or anybody else. Really, we wanted to get rid from him, but not in this way," said Kawther Hussein, 46, a British-trained chemical engineer and mother of three who lives in al Kharnouq.

"People lived here. Children lived here. Where will they live now?" a man in al Adhamiya said as the crowd picked up the bricks of a collapsed apartment building.

U.S. military officials acknowledge the damage in civilian neighborhoods. Two U.S. Army ordnance experts went street to street in al Kharnouq on Tuesday searching for the canisters that fluttered down April 7, leaving a virtual minefield amid the rows of split-level homes of designs that mix Frank Lloyd Wright and Mesopotamian inspirations.

"It's a big problem," said Army Corps of Engineers Capt. Thomas Austin, whose crews are responsible for disarming unexploded ordinance in part of Baghdad. "This is the worst neighborhood I've personally seen."

Austin defended the bomblets' use, saying the Iraqi military sometimes put anti-aircraft artillery in civilian neighborhoods and that the bomblets were meant to rain down on armor or anti-aircraft batteries, exploding when they hit their metal surfaces.

Instead, they landed on softer targets - lawns and trees, and in one instance the asbestos roof of 60-year-old Sabih el Bazzaz's carport - cushioning their fall, and failing to trigger them.

Residents say the closest anti-aircraft battery was on a highway a quarter-mile from their neighborhood. For them it is a sign that American forces didn't distinguish between the military and civilians in their so-called war of liberation.

The toll, they said, was four civilians. The house of Rashid Majid and his sons Ghassan and Arkan had a black banner of mourning outside Tuesday, declaring them "martyrs of the American aggression."

Around the corner, Uday al Shimarey's father said his son and the Majids were all killed because they were curious about the bombs and apparently leaned over to pick them up, or kicked them.

The view from al Adhamiya is just as bitter, though the U.S. bombing campaign left it largely unscathed. At 5 a.m. last Thursday, residents awoke to hear American tanks rolling down residential streets so narrow that a few got stuck.

Thirty people were killed, though the circumstances were uncertain. Tarah said they were "defending their homes ... hoping to keep away thieves and robbers, when the tanks rolled in." He said a 10-year-old boy was shot as he watched what was going on. Thirteen more were killed when they rushed to protect Imam al Nawman Mosque nearby.

Sheik Moaied al Aadhamiy offered a tour of the mosque. There were large holes in the four-story clock tower, caused by bombs, he said. The corners of the two-story arched entryway had been ripped off by tank fire. The tomb of Imam al Nawman is riddled with bullets holes, at least 20.

The sheik acknowledged that residents tried to drive the Americans away. But the damage was done before. "There was no one here when the Americans arrived," he said. "Those who came to defend the mosque arrived and tried to drive them away, when they were killed. But the mosque was empty when they did this."

Al Aadhamiy shook his head. The mosque is 1,020 years old, he said.

"I know the Americans said their war was with Saddam and not the Iraqi people," he said. "But this is now inside our hearts and will never leave. Each day when I come here, I have the same thought, everyone says the same thing. There is no other reaction. We hate the Americans."

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Senior Member

832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 04-18-2003 12:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem with unreasonable people is....

they cannot be reasoned with...

(feel free to quote me)

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-18-2003 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No...they just don't believe what they see on Faux (fox) News.

They trust their own judgement.

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One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3297 posts, Jul 2000

posted 04-18-2003 03:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"they trust their own judgement"

that's personal rationalization...and it is illogical...

Contradicting or disregarding the principles of logic.
Without logic; senseless.

btw, I've come to slay the dragon....

[Edited 2 times, lastly by theseeker on 04-18-2003]

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Agent Provocateur

588 posts, Nov 2002

posted 04-18-2003 04:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the articles Mech.

Foreign media are free to tell the truth.

US press 'in bed with' the troops, & under the 4th reich's censorship- only parrot propaganda.

"Wag The Dog"
US Marines in Lebanon were killed by a suicide bomber.
Reagan/Bush attacked Grenada.
"Wag The Dog" PR
Saudi Arabian hijackers used planes on 9/11
Dubya attackes Afghans & Iraqis.

Same "Wag The Dog" PR 'bushwars'

Personal attacks over and over:
Are PV & FW the same person, or just using the same manual?

The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.
Occasionally, flamers merely wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they are trolls
Use of a personal attack in an argument constitutes a called Ad hominem
, a term that comes from a Latin phrase meaning "toward the man".
To be sure, however, the term is often used as a synonym for "insulting one's opponent in the middle of otherwise rational discourse."

Or, typically, here insults to divert from a rational discourse.

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Senior Member

832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 04-18-2003 08:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Speaking of rational discourse (something I have yet to see)...Did Mech ever answer my questions? I never saw any honest answers or attempts at rational discourse….must have slipped past me.

Let’s get specific, using Halliburton as an example (because Dick Cheney used to be CEO.) How does Halliburton get rich Mech? Are they using Iraqi oil to profit, OR are they being paid to help in the re-construction of Iraq by US taxpayer dollars? If they are not using Iraqi oil, then how can you say this war is about oil? The third question is; Would you prefer that foreign companies helped in the reconstruction of Iraq as opposed to American companies? Seems to me that American and British companies have the right to profit from the reconstruction (via US and some British taxpayer dollars). Americans fought the war. Americans paid for the war. American companies should receive American taxpayer dollars for the re-construction….(not French or German or Syrian companies, for example). By the way, the South Koreans and the Canadians are now joining the war effort….A little late, eh? Sounds like they want a little bit of that re-construction profit, eh Mech? Are they greedy SOBs who want to profit from the misery of others too? Do you think these companies are just going to work for free, Mech? Why are you only criticizing American companies….or do you just hate America and capitalism? If so, then maybe you should go volunteer for free and cap some oil wells, and try to turn that power back on that Saddam‘s own regime took offline…and clean up some of those viruses that may have been looted from Iraqi weapons labs, while your at it. Oh and hey, and you might be shot at by snipers while you’re doing it, but remember, If we pay you though, we must assume you are a greedy SOB trying to profit from death.

Regardless as to how you respond to these questions and comments, keep in mind that you have not yet even come close to making the case that this war is about oil.

Care to try again?

I really want to know how these companies are going to profit from the sale of Iraqi oil as you claim. Seems to me that the only people really interested in profiting from Iraqi oil are the French and Russians. The evidence for this is found in the fact that our good friends the French are still trying to get in our way and could refuse to vote in the UN to lift sanctions in the oil for food program....(keeping in mind that the only reason these sanctions were there was because Iraq had an evil dictator at the time). It’s kind of a no-brainer that sanctions should be lifted now… So what could be motivating the French to keep imposing sanctions on the Iraqi people? I’m guessing France does not want the US to help Iraq to sell oil on the open market to help pay for it's re-construction..? Why would this be, Mech? Do you ever question what France has done for Iraqi oil? Didn’t see you complaining about the terrorist country Syria, getting that free oil from that direct pipeline to Syria.

How is it America, is profiting from this oil again? So far America has lost 80 billion…..

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Senior Member

832 posts, Mar 2003

posted 04-18-2003 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anti-war or anti-America?
WND probe exposes violent, revolutionary leadership of 'peace' movement

Posted: April 2, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2003

Today's anti-war movement, while claiming publicly to advocate for peace, is dominated by organizations promoting Communism, anarchy, large-scale urban rioting, financial disruption, and violent attacks on governmental, corporate, military and media centers in America, according to the April issue of Whistleblower, WorldNetDaily's acclaimed monthly print magazine. The issue is titled "Anti-war or anti-America?"

"Readers better sit down and take a deep breath before they read this issue," said Editor and CEO Joseph Farah. "Many dangerous, violent and profoundly anti-American organizations are using the current war as cover to try to bring America to its knees. They hate this country and openly advocate destroying it. Their cause has nothing to do with opposing war, but everything to do with opposing America. In some cases, both their tactics and their goals are not far from those of the very terrorists we are fighting."

Indeed, some of the major "anti-war" groups are intimately connected with terrorist states like North Korea, as well as terrorist organizations in the Middle East. Some, like the international A.N.S.W.E.R. coalition, are closely allied with known communist organizations.

One prominent group discussed in the April Whistleblower advocates that activists "physically shut down financial centers which regulate and assist the functioning of U.S. economy," engage in "large-scale urban rioting" so as to cause "massive unrest and even state of emergencies declared in major cities across the country," and "actively target U.S. military establishments within the United States … [using] any means necessary to slow down the functioning of the murdering body."

The purpose of all this mayhem? "The U.S. government will be forced to send U.S. troops into the domestic arena thereby taking resources and political focus away from the war," explains the group.

Included in the April issue:

"Mugged by reality," by Joseph Farah, in which he recounts how anti-war "human shields" are being transformed into anti-Saddam zealots

"Has anti-war movement been hijacked?" by Sherrie Gossett, showing how terror alliances and radical politics have been revealed at the forefront of the "peace" movement

"American eco-terrorists declare war" by Michelle Malkin, in which a "peace" protestor manifesto is revealed to be eerily similar to the creed of Islamic militants

"The second front" by David Horowitz, who shows how the anti-war movement is inching precariously close to terrorism

"Why the left loves Osama and Saddam," a brilliant analysis by Mideast scholar Daniel Pipes

"Angst over female warriors" by Diana Lynne, an exclusive in-depth report on allegations of social engineering in the military -- a powerful update on the role of women in the military, in light of the taking of female American POWs in Iraq

"Citizenship in an age of terror," by former U.S. Air Force Academy director of military history Tony Kern, on how the "clash of civilizations" will make or break Americans

"No greater love" by Richard Botkin, on why today's "greatest generation" has joined the battle

"Smart-weapon wars still scar the old-fashioned way" by Col. David H. Hackworth

"Duty, honor, country" – one of the most famous speeches of all time – by Gen. Douglas MacArthur

"The boys of Pointe du Hoc" by President Ronald Reagan, remembering the sacred gift American soldiers have given the world
"This issue doesn't criticize those who honestly and for whatever reasons oppose the war," said WND Managing Editor David Kupelian. "Rather, it targets the exceedingly subversive and violent groups that are exploiting the controversy over the war to implement their long-time agenda of crippling this nation. The 9-11 attacks jolted Americans into recognizing and engaging a previously hidden enemy. Well, now it's time, as this issue of Whistleblower makes crystal clear, to wake up to another previously hidden enemy that is plotting America's destruction."

Fastwalker note;
(Whoops...this is more of an advertisement article for other articles...but it get's the point across)

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Fastwalker on 04-18-2003]

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One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3297 posts, Jul 2000

posted 04-18-2003 12:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey F/W ever seen anyone (other than gasbag) as self absorbed,incorrect and bitter as shatoga ?

good gosh....

how do people that hate the U.S so much get through the day ?

why don't they just leave ?

rational dicourse

you don't know the meaning of the word shatoga...

you are the O-PIT-OM-E of a liberal elitist troll/pig....

the only way to deal with your kind, and as politely as I can say...screw you commie....

oh yeah get over the V/N war's obviously been eating your ass out for thirty plus years...move on and try to enjoy what life of yours you have not yet destroyed with your anger....

now go take on the day....

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Resisting the NWO

Northeast USA
3907 posts, Sep 2002

posted 04-18-2003 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mech   Visit Mech's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! Protesters are now "Commies". Wow! Paul Revere is a "commie" according to Fastwalker.

You are 100% MANIPULATED by the masters of PR. (Propaganda). Your arrogance is astounding. The United States is HEADED for a future WORSE than "Commie" Russia.

Anyone who decided to take the red pill knows that this country has been hijacked by the globalists.

One only needs to look at the legislation being passed.

It's all about pipelines, oil, global control, corporate handouts and propping up Sharon's Israeli regime.

No WMD's have been found.

It's all THEATRE.

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