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Topic:   Overt Repression Of US Dissent Begins

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Nirvana
Senior Member


Seattle, WA
180 posts, Nov 2001

posted 05-06-2002 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nirvana   Email Nirvana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Read this article. This is chilling. This is amazing. This level or harrasment cannot be allowed to continue.

==================

Overt Repression Of US Dissent Begins
From Mike Ruppert
CopvCIA.com
5-6-2

As opinion-molding voices like Gore Vidal, Seymour Hersh, Michael Moore and ABC Nightline begin to question the multitude of holes in the U.S. government's story of 9/11 and its aftermath, a threatened administration is showing the first - and inevitable - signs of repression.

This is just the beginning.

--Mike Ruppert www.copvcia.com


Protesters Detained In Milwaukee -
Are You On The No Fly List?
By Matthew Rothschild
The Progressive - McCarthyism Watch
4-26-2

Alia Kate, 16, a high school student in Milwaukee, wanted to go to Washington, D.C., for the protests Saturday, April 20. She was looking forward to demonstrating against the School of the Americas and learning how to lobby against U.S. aid for Colombia.

She had an airplane ticket for a 6:55 p.m. flight out of Milwaukee on Friday the 19th, and she got to the airport two hours ahead of time.

But she didn't make it onto the Midwest Express flight.

Neither did many other Wisconsin activists who were supposed to be on board. Twenty of the 37 members of the Peace Action Milwaukee group--including a priest and a nun--were pulled aside and questioned by Milwaukee County sheriff's deputies. They were not cleared in time for takeoff and had to leave the next morning, missing many of the events.

What tripped them up was a computerized "No Fly Watch List" that the federal government now supplies to all the airlines. The airlines are required to check their passenger lists against that computerized "No Fly" list.

"The name or names of people in that group came up in a watch list that is provided through the federal government and is provided for everyone who flies," says Sergeant Chuck Coughlin of the Milwaukee sheriff's department. "The computer checks for exact matches, similar spellings, and aliases. In this particular case, there were similar spellings. About five or six individuals came up on the watch list. Although it was time-consuming, and although they were flight-delayed, the system actually worked."

Don't tell Dianne Henke that.

A volunteer with Peace Action, Henke is the person who organized the whole trip. "We were very upset," she says. "Here we were, going out to lobby, to use our democratic rights, to talk to our legislators, to use our freedom of speech and dissent, and then we're being detained and not told why. We were taking young people and telling them if you use means that are nonviolent and peaceful, your message will be heard. But the fact that we were hampered, that we were detained, was just a totally different message."

Henke doesn't blame the sheriff's deputies. "They were very sympathetic to us, but they just weren't getting the answers they wanted from the other end of the telephone," she says.

It was never made clear to her exactly why they were being detained.

"We were getting all these different stories from the deputies. One possibility was that a UWM [University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee] student had a name, Jacob Laden, that was similar to a terrorist's name [Osama bin Laden]. Then another story was that someone had a foreign name that was changed to make it sound more American, Alia Kate, who used to be Alia Torabian. Her father was Persian or Iranian. I've known her all my life," says Henke, who looks up Kate's number in an old Montessori phone book.

"I was one of the first people in our group to try to check in," says Kate. "When I went up to get my boarding pass, the lady said there were some problems. She said her computer locked up and she had to wait for someone else. And I found out that the someone else was one of the sheriff's deputies on duty. And the sheriff's deputy came and told me I had to grab my bags and follow her for further questioning.

"I was a little scared. I was a little confused. I didn't know what it was about. I was alone and was taken to a building nearby. They sat me down in a chair, and I just waited for 15 or 20 minutes. They had my driver's license. They asked me what my phone number was and address was. I heard them making phone calls, reading off some stuff on my license. Then they asked me what my nationality was.

"I said I'm half Persian and Italian and German.

"They asked who was Persian, my mother or my father.

"I said, my father, my biological father. I don't even know him.

"They also asked me if I was a U.S. citizen.

"I told them I was.

"They asked me if I was from around here.

"I said yes."

Though one of the sheriff's deputies said "it was just a routine procedure," they gave Alia several different explanations for what was happening, she says. "They said it might have to do with increased security in the Washington, D.C., area, or it might have to do with Indonesian terrorists."

She says there may have been an element of racial profiling involved, too. "I guess we're looking for Hispanic names," one of the deputies said, according to Kate. She suspects they thought her first name was Hispanic, and she says that two others detained early on, Manuel Sanchez and Isabella Horning, may have been selected for their names.

Finally, they walked Kate back to the ticket counter, but the computer froze up again, so Kate and Sanchez and Horning were told to go sit down and wait for the deputies to deliver their boarding passes.

"They gave us our boarding passes, which had a bold-faced S with little asterisks on both sides, circled with an ink marker," Kate says. "This meant that when we went to the gate our carry-on bags would have to be hand-searched and they'd have to wand us."

But the deputies took so much time going through the whole group that not everyone was ready to go by 6:55.

Midwest Express held the flight for as long as it could but then left, almost empty, without most of the activists.

"I was shocked," Kate says. "I couldn't believe what was happening, that they could detain us long enough for us to miss our flight in an apparent attempt to keep us in Milwaukee. It was sort of McCarthy-style the way they have the names appearing on a list and targeting certain people, dissenters especially. I felt my rights had been violated."

Sister Virgine Lawinger also was detained. "When I went through the line, the lady at the ticket counter said, 'I'm sorry, you have to wait a minute,' and then the sheriff's deputy came and took me and some others to an office," she says. "All they asked us at that point was our birthplace and said these were just routine checks. They said our names were flagged. That's the real strange thing: What caused the computer to flag those names? I did feel it was profiling a particular group without a basis--a peace group. The abuse of power was so obvious."

Sister Virgine says she's upset about "losing an entire day of intense education on the issue of Colombia." And she says her "right to dissent" was infringed upon.

Father Bill Brennan of St. Patrick's Church in Milwaukee also missed his flight because of the questioning. "No one was charged with a crime or threat of a crime," he says. "No one was advised of his or her civil rights. My personal reaction is fear of the arbitrary use of power this incident reveals. Someone in Washington has the power to inspect a passenger list drawn up in Wisconsin, discover the motive of our flight (namely, a peace protest against what goes on at Fort Benning, Georgia, particularly as it affects Colombia), decide who might possibly be subversives, and stop our takeoff."

Sarah Backus, a coordinator for SOA [School of the Americas] Watch Wisconsin, says she was told by one of the sheriff's deputies: "You're probably being stopped because you are a peace group and you're protesting against your country."

Backus later asked the sheriff, David Clarke, about this, and he denied this was the reason for the detentions, she says.

Backus also went to the Midwest Express ticket desk to find out what was going on. "The names are in the computer, and the names came up," she says she was told.

Lisa Bailey, a spokesperson for Midwest Express, says, "As the group checked in, one of the passengers showed up on this list. At that point, the airline got the TSA [Transportation Security Administration] rep and Milwaukee County sheriffs. The TSA made the decision that since this was a group, we should rescreen all of them." Midwest Express either found hotels for those who missed their flights or provided transportation home.

Bailey says that screening the names against the list is standard operating procedure. "Everyone who travels is now cleared through this list."

Where did this list come from?

One U.S. Marshal said the FBI compiles the list, and an FBI agent said it "comes out of headquarters." But a spokesperson for the FBI in Washington, Steve Berry, would not comment at all on the issue of the "No Fly" list, and referred all questions to the TSA, a new wing of the Department of Transportation.

The TSA was established by the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, which President Bush signed into law on November 19. This law puts the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security in charge of airline security. Today, the Under Secretary of Transportation for Security is John W. Magaw, a former Secret Service agent.

The law empowers Magaw to "establish policies and procedures requiring air carriers to use information from government agencies to identify individuals on passenger lists who may be a threat to civil aviation and, if such an individual is identified, to notify appropriate law enforcement agencies and prohibit the individual from boarding an aircraft."

The TSA has taken that power and run with it.

"The list is a compilation from intelligence agencies and is shared with the airlines," says Paul Turk, a spokesperson for the TSA. "But as to how you get on it, or how it's maintained, or who maintains it, I can't help you with that."

Turk adds that he doesn't know how large the list is, "and if I did, I couldn't tell you."
http://www.progressive.org/webex/wxmc042702.html

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2621 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-06-2002 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Email Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If this is true, the terrorists are winning.

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Nirvana
Senior Member


Seattle, WA
180 posts, Nov 2001

posted 05-06-2002 02:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nirvana   Email Nirvana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember this one? This was before the tsa.gov database. If the government has not already issued a federal ID # for each person in the USA, citizen or otherwise, I'll bet they are working on it. A utopian dream, all records connected together under a single convenient ID. I fear we are marching towards becoming The Imperial States of America.

--------------------------------

What's Happening with the Bangor Airport Incident

- Nancy Oden, November 10, 2001


Postscript: I have since gotten in touch with the Bangor Airport manager who assures me that it's fine with them if they fly out of there, but that it ultimately isn't their decision. I've also been told by American Airlines' head of security in Texas that I am welcome to fly on their airline any time, and that they will contact Priceline.com about both of them giving my money back. This is all good, excepting that the military can arbitrarily, at any time, revoke my right to travel for no good reason, as they did November 1 in Bangor, Maine. So long as the military are in charge of civilian affairs, we are not free; we do not have our Bill of Rights protecting us because they've abrogated it and declared themselves the Law.


We are forming a national Bill of Rights Defense Committee, and invite all of you and/or groups you're affiliated with to help us form such a coalition based on defense of our civil liberties. Please email back saying you'll be part of this new coalition of groups and individuals, and include your name and phone number. Then we can call a meeting to decide what to do. We need a large, strong, united voice to tell the military government we now have (Bush, Sr., who used to be not only President but before that head of the CIA, Dick Cheney, Daddy Bush's fellow oil man and defense contractor, and the Pentagon brass) that we will not accept killing democracy in order to save it.


We do not want corporations, with their only interest in next quarter's profits, running the world. We, the people, should be making the decisions that affect our lives. Real Democracy. Nothing less will do.


***********************************************************


Bangor Airport Incident, November 1, 2001

- Nancy Oden, Jonesboro, Maine


On Thursday, November 1, 2001, I left my farmhouse on the North Coast of Maine, where I'm an organic grower, and headed for the Bangor International Airport in Bangor, Maine. I was dressed conservatively in a long, brown skirt with a matching jacket and turtleneck sweater, no jewelry, no buttons or other political indications attached, looking very like other women my age in this part of the world.


I am a relatively well known environmental, social, and political activist who has run for public office. It should be noted that, while I've been an activist for over thirty years, I've never been arrested, nor has there been anything in my life that would signal I meant harm to anyone.


Also, this was the third time this year I had traveled out of (or attempted to, in this case) Bangor Airport on American Airlines using an e-ticket purchased from Priceline.com bought weeks before with my own credit card. They had no reason for profiling and singling me out. It had to have been because of my political views which, of course, is not a good reason (see U.S. Constitution's first Ten Amendments, otherwise known as the Bill of Rights).


I was headed for Chicago for a Green Party USA National Coordinating Committee meeting, where I was to speak the next night on biochemical warfare and pesticides as weapons of war. I was also scheduled to

Interview job applicants, present several proposals and financial reports, and so on. I am a lead person on the National Coordinating Committee of the Green Party USA (the original Green Party, although there is now another which took a very similar name).


I arrived at the Bangor Airport the now-requisite two hours ahead of the flight and walked in to the airport to the sight of a couple of dozen National Guard troops carrying machine guns in their hands wandering around the lobby. I walked down to the American Airlines ticket counter, where there were no other passengers, and told the airlines ticket agent my name. I was holding out my picture ID and the printed itinerary they told us to bring, but he barely glanced at them. I remember thinking, "Does he have a picture of me under that counter? Why didn't he look at my ID?"


No one checked my ID at any time. They all knew what I looked like and, it became clear, my antiwar stance. I am not that well known that they would have known me on sight. Why were they briefed about me before I arrived at the airport? What were they told? Was it the FBI or some other agency? Which one?


The ticket agent spent an inordinate amount of time on his computer, then finally produced a boarding pass with a large "S" written on it. I asked him what that meant, and he said I had been picked to have my bags searched. Well, one expects that now, so I said, "Oh, that's okay." But I had a feeling there was more.


Since there was no one else around, I turned back to him and looked him in the eye - he seemed a decent guy - and asked him, "My being picked wasn't random, was it?" He hesitated a moment, but then said, "No, your name was already flagged in the computer and you would have been searched in any case." Well, still possibly coincidence.


Then to the x-ray for my bags and me. I said to the two women sitting by the machine that scans the bags. sort of apologetically, "I've been picked to have my bags searched. I know this might sound silly, but since you handle all these people's bags and belongings--with the Anthrax scare and all--I'd like it if whoever searches through my clothes and things wash their hands first." They looked at me with hate and loathing and one said, "We don't want YOUR germs, either." (Turns out they wear rubber gloves.)


"Whoa," I thought, "either I'm back in kindergarten or these normally quite civil women have some reason for being hostile." I had the distinct feeling they had been told awful things about me - I want to know what they were told about this profiled individual coming to their airport.


Neither my bags nor I set off any beeps in the machinery so we walked right through to the boarding area. Here I sat down with the other passengers. There was one National Guard soldier in the boarding area; he was a short man with a black eye wearing camo gear and carrying a machine gun.


Soon after I sat down, the National Guardsman looked at the dozen or so passengers, his eyes stopping at me and he yelled, "Bring those bags over here!" Since he didn't call my name, how did he know which person was me, since I did not look appreciably different from the others?


When I didn't move fast enough, he yelled again, "Hurry up! Move! Bring those bags up here!" This did not make me move faster. By now people were beginning to stare at me as if I might possibly be someone bent on doing something wrong.


I set my two smallish bags on the table where two women were waiting to search my bags. As one of them had trouble with a zipper on my older bag, I said, "Oh, that zipper is not right, here, let me open it for you," and I reached over the table to undo the zipper. Immediately, the soldier yelled out, "Get your hands away from there!" By now the other passengers were getting nervous, of course.


He was standing at the end of the table with the women on one side looking in my bags and me standing on the other side of the table. I turned to face him, which put my back towards everyone else, and he grabbed my left arm and began loudly spouting pro-war nonsense into my face. "Don't you understand we have to get them before they get us? Don't you understand what happened September 11?" and so on.


I immediately pulled my arm away from him and said, "Do not touch me. You cannot do that," and stepped back a foot or so, saying that I didn't want to hear his views on why he thought we should kill starving, helpless people in Afghanistan.


He grabbed for me again. I stepped back further stating emphatically, "Do Not Touch Me," and further emphasizing that I did not want to listen to his views on the war. He was about to leave his position and come after me again, but I saw the senior security man who is usually there shake his head "No" at the soldier, who then backed off, but he was angry that I would not submit to his holding me while he forced his views on me.


I turned and there just a couple of inches away was the man with the metal-detecting wand. I stepped back a foot or two so he wasn't right up against me, and he did the wand thing. I was the only one whose bags were searched. For a woman of a certain age such as myself to stand there with arms outstretched while a man skimmed my body with a device was very embarrassing and demeaning.


I asked him not to touch me with the wand, as I didn't know what it was, but, of course, he had to touch my shoulder with it. I ignored this, just wanting to get out of there. While he was doing the wand thing, I heard the soldier, who was behind me, say, "Don't let her on the plane." I thought he was talking to himself.


Then they were done with the searching, and I walked the three feet to the boarding gate. The American Airlines agent said, "You can't get on the plane." I asked why. He replied, "Because he [indicating the soldier] says you didn't cooperate with the search." I said, "But you were standing here the whole time. Didn't you see him grab my arm and talk loudly into my face?" He said he couldn't see that because my back was to people, only saw me back off.


I then told the American Airlines agent that I needed to get to Chicago and stated what I had to do there. The American Airlines agent then said, rather softly, probably so the guardsman soldier couldn't hear, "We'll put you on the four o'clock plane; that's the last one out today that you can go through Boston and still get to Chicago tonight." I replied, "Fine, let's just do this. I don't care if I'm late so long as I get there."


Unfortunately, the Guardsman overheard, and he wasn't done with me. Clearly, this non-subservient female had to be punished for not being sufficiently obsequious. He saw me picking up my bags to go out into the lobby and wait for the 4 o'clock plane, and yelled (that seemed to be his only means of communication), "Come With Me!" I asked, "Why? Where are we going?" He replied, louder, "Come With Me!"


A few people to whom I've told this insist the government/military is trying to "criminalize" me and other political activists who don't have criminal records. This is what's done to people of color. When they're harassed and/or beaten by police, they eventually, of course, do something to protect themselves and then get arrested for hitting an officer or whatever. If they then get convicted of a felony, they've go to prison and probably a few years of parole when one's rights are mostly non-existent, and draconian restrictions are put upon one's activities. Convicted felons lose a lot of rights in this country: their travel is henceforth limited, in some states they can't vote, own a gun, and various other limitations.


Under the circumstances, and because I had a few hours until four o'clock anyway, it seemed best to go with the guardsman. The circumstances being that each individual soldier/national guardsman seems to be The Law unto themselves. Each of them makes it up as they go along, punishing people who don't hop to. Military law is not democracy.


He took me to the entrance area, apart from anyone else. Then he ordered, loudly, "Sit Down!" I gave him a look and then sat. The soldier found the airport policeman and told him to stay with me. Upon reflection, I probably wasn't free to leave, but I thought I was waiting for the next plane so just stayed there.


The Airport policeman was a pleasant local man and we talked about what had just happened as well as people we knew, etc. Within minutes I looked up to see 5-6 National Guardsmen in their camo gear all carrying machine guns marching in a sort of formation towards me. I was sitting down quietly talking with the policeman. The situation looked like a bad movie.


It occurred to me that this is how people get "disappeared," which has happened to over 1,200 Americans so far since September 11. We used to hear about this only in repressive military regimes in other places (usually bolstered by our tax dollars). I'm sure they were ready to arrest me for allegedly "not cooperating with a security search," with which I had, indeed, cooperated.


All of a sudden the ludicrousness of the situation struck me. There I am, sitting down with my bags, a woman clearly not a physical threat, and this phalanx of soldiers in formation descends upon me ready to arrest me for something I did not do. I gave a little laugh and said to the lead man, "What, all this, just for me?" Then, I asked, "What's this really about? What's going on here?"


He replied, "We understand you didn't cooperate with a security search." I said, "That's ridiculous. They searched my bags and they did the wand search. The only problem was your man here [I indicated the short guy with the black eye] grabbing my arm and spouting pro-war views loudly in my face." The lead soldier (I don't know his rank) said, astonishingly, "He told me only hit your arm."


I looked at the lead soldier wide-eyed with a few unbidden (certainly unwanted when I'm trying to look fierce) tears in my eyes, and asked, "Even if that's all he had done, would that be okay?" I think he then realized the guardsman had been way out of line and said, "Wait here." They left, and the policeman stayed with me. I don't really think I was free to go, although I had not been arrested.


I found out later they had gone upstairs and told the Bangor Airport manager to tell all airlines in the Airport not to allow me to fly out of Bangor that day, and possibly more than just that one day. Since the military are in charge of our airports and they can override civilians in charge, this was made to happen.


I was to be punished for the crime of questioning their authority, especially for the guardsman to hold my arm and force me to listen to his brain-washed rantings.


Every airline in the Bangor Airport was given my name and told that I did not cooperate with a security search. Not cooperating with a security search at an airport is a federal crime. If, indeed, I had not cooperated, they would have arrested me right then and there. But I had been searched so they couldn't say that.


However, now I have to wonder if every airline in the world doesn't have me in their computer as a person who didn't cooperate with the security search, which means they can deny me passage in their airplanes. We will find out as time goes on.


They told the policeman this news and had him tell me that I wouldn't be allowed to fly out of Bangor that day. So I said I had to go American Airlines and get my money back. The policeman came with me.


The same AA clerk was at the counter. He stepped outside the counter to converse with the policeman and me. He confirmed that they had been told not to allow me to fly out of Bangor that day. I asked him about the next day and he said he didn't know. This is not a small matter for me since the Bangor Airport is 100 miles from where I live.


The AA clerk then suggested I drive to Boston (5-1/2 hour drive) and fly out of there. There were several problems with that, I told him. First, my old car barely made it the 100 miles to the Bangor Airport and might not make it to Boston or back again. Then there were the parking fees in Boston as well as the fact that I might not be allowed to fly out of there or might not be able to get a seat once I got there. Also, if they would not honor my now-expired ticket, I'd have to pay full fare, which I couldn't afford. Not a serious option.


I then asked the American Airlines clerk for my money back so I might consider some alternative means of transport. He said he couldn't refund my money. I asked him why and he said, "It's a non-refundable ticket." This was so ridiculous that all three of us laughed a little. All the airlines issue tickets on other tickets all the time. So I asked him again and he said he couldn't refund the ticket, indicating it wasn't his decision, which I understood, and told him I'd take it up with the airline later.


Then the policeman, half apologetically, told me I'd been banned from the Airport for that day, and that he had to escort me out. I told him I understood that he was under the military's rule, and that I would call it his walking me to the door, rather than escorting me out of the Airport. We walked to the exit. I thanked him for being kind and considerate, which he had been, and left with the sinking feeling that something bad is happening to our country. And this is how it begins.

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Dan Rockwell
Hoka hey! - heyokas!


Stamford, CT, USA
1750 posts, Dec 2001

posted 05-07-2002 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Rockwell   Email Dan Rockwell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those are both disturbing articles, but what would be worse is if they get their way with a national driver's license.


National driver's license plan threatens to restrict freedom

By Eric Peters / Special to The Detroit News

Mandatory fingerprinting used to be something Americans only imposed on criminals and criminal suspects. But if the idea of national ID cards being pushed by the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators gets traction, soon every American will be "inked" -- or tagged by another biometric identifier, such as a retinal scan -- to make us "safer."

Whether we'll be as free as we used to be is another matter.

The AAMVA wants $100 million from Congress to erect the first-ever U.S. ID system -- complete with centralized computer database to keep track of all 270 million of us. It would supplant existing state-level and state-issued driver's licenses -- and we'd all have to carry one. The "smart" cards could be used to track our movements, activities and purchases -- with all of the information dumping into Uncle Sam's personal computer for whatever
"informational purposes only" the government deems appropriate.

The Justice Department is pushing it, even though President Bush has said he's against it.

"The whole issue comes down to improving public public safety and preventing identity fraud," enthuses AAMVA spokesman Jason King.

Americans would have to grow accustomed to being tagged and catalogued like human cattle.

Unfortunately for our civil liberties, recent polls show many Americans -- especially after Sept. 11 -- appear ready to embrace a national ID card and all that it implies. Fear of terrorism reversed the previously inchoate anti-ID sentiment that prevailed across the country.

David L. Sobel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center is among the lonely voices urging a thoughtful pause.

"This type of system will be a radical departure for this country," he said. "It will be abused."

Others concerned about civil liberties agree -- and they run the gamut from the hard-core liberals at the American Civil Liberties Union to the conservative Christian right. What unites these disparate interests is the belief that government cannot be trusted with such carte blanche access to our lives -- and that waging war on terrorists should not require us to abandon the very things that make us a target of terrorism.

There's still plenty of time to stop the national ID dead in its tracks. http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/editorial/0202/10/a13-412227.htm


U.S. considers encoding data on driver's licenses
01/07/2002 - Updated 05:49 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AP) — The government is taking its first steps with the states to develop driver's licenses that can electronically store information — such as fingerprints — for the 184 million Americans who carry the cards.Privacy experts fear the effort may lead to de facto national identification cards that would allow authorities to track citizens electronically, circumventing the intense debate over federal ID cards.

Supporters said it was predictable after Sept. 11, and after a briefly raucous debate over U.S. identity cards, that officials would turn to improving existing identification systems. With careful use, they say, these new licenses could alert authorities if a suspected terrorist attempted to board an airliner, withdraw cash or enter the country.

The Transportation Department, under instructions from Congress, is expected to develop rules for states to encode data onto driver's licenses to prevent criminals from using them as false identification. Under a new national standard, a license from California could be verified and recorded using equipment even in Texas or Florida.In a report accompanying the funding legislation, Congress told the department it would "strongly encourage" officials there to develop guides quickly with the states for electronically storing information on licenses. "This could benefit the nation's efforts to improve security," lawmakers wrote, adding it could also cut down on financial fraud and underage drinking.

Transportation officials told the Associated Press this week the department's new security administration probably will take charge of the project, still in its early stages. Already, 37 states store information on licenses electronically — often using bar codes or a magnetic stripe — though none yet are known to include fingerprints or imprints of retinal- or facial-scans.

"What you're seeing here is sort of a hardening of the driver's license that could lead to development of a national ID system without creating a national ID card," said Marc Rotenberg, head of the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center.

"If they start scanning these things, they can track where I go," said Richard M. Smith, former chief technology officer for the Privacy Foundation, an advocacy organization in Denver. "If we do this — come up with a national standard — there's no difference between a driver's license and a national ID card."

Nathan Root, standards director for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, said, "When you look at the expense of improving what we have already versus implementing a new national ID document, the hassle and expense just don't compare." He said, "It would be a better idea just to work with what we have."

The association, based in Arlington, Va., has already developed detailed guides for storing information on licenses. Its current rules do not require states to include biometric data, such as fingerprints or retinal scans, but that could change. "It was not practical, not before September 11," Root said. "It wasn't popular to include anything like that."

The association represents all the state motor vehicle agencies in the United States and Canada, and counts as associate members the U.S. government and Mexico.Privacy experts said a broadly adopted new standard for machines to check state ID cards could allow authorities easily to track citizens nationwide, using a state license everyone is already accustomed to carrying."

The debate after September 11 showed that Americans are instinctively suspicious of a single federally issued card, but they might be more sympathetic to identifications issued by businesses or perhaps states," said Jeffrey Rosen, a leading privacy expert and associate law professor at George Washington University.

Even supporters acknowledge that the impact of a national tracking network could be significant, especially if groups as diverse as retailers, sports stadiums, banks and movie theaters begin demanding ID checks using licenses.

"They're giving these systems too much credit in even assuming that somebody would be able — and interested — to track everybody's whereabouts and doings," Root said. But he also said critics' warnings "aren't totally without merit. There should be some controls placed, some kind of accountability."

Root said he favors limits on which organizations can check the authenticity of a license against state records, since that check could create an electronic record of the citizen's location and business. "It doesn't mean the liquor store has a need," he said. http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/01/07/drivers-licenses.htm


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Dan Rockwell on 05-07-2002]

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Nirvana
Senior Member


Seattle, WA
180 posts, Nov 2001

posted 05-07-2002 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nirvana   Email Nirvana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd say the implanted microchip sounds like the worst thing.

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Dan Rockwell
Hoka hey! - heyokas!


Stamford, CT, USA
1750 posts, Dec 2001

posted 05-07-2002 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dan Rockwell   Email Dan Rockwell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is the worst Nirvana. I think some of the newer prototypes they're working on can be injected and could probably be programmed remotely. - I kind of think the day is coming that we wont be able to do a lot of traveling between States or anywhere else for that matter if they don't want us to. There will probably be some kind of remote sensors set up on State borders to alert the police that you're on the move and patrol cars equipped with special scanners to see if you're on that special list of theirs and tell you to turn around and go back home because you're not authorized to travel in their State for some strange reason.

I posted some information on implanted chips on this thread.

Welcome to era of implanted chips. http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000588.html

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