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Topic:   New Surveillance

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Sore Throat
Senior Member

x
292 posts, Sep 2000

posted 05-29-2002 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sore Throat   Email Sore Throat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let me say to Ashcroft that I believe that he is a true enemy of the Constitution of this country. (Note how many have actually been prosecuted for the billions stolen in the Enron scandal)

And that the FBI's incompetence led directly to the 9/11 disaster.

While freedom of speech is still guaranteed, I will continue to exercise that right.

Have at it!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30427-2002May29.html

FBI Given More Latitude
New Surveillance Rules Remove Evidence Hurdle

By Susan Schmidt and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, May 30, 2002; Page A01

New Justice Department guidelines to be unveiled today will give FBI agents latitude to monitor Internet sites, libraries and religious institutions without first having to offer evidence of potential criminal activity, officials said yesterday.

The changes, part of the Justice Department's effort to mount a proactive war on terror, will mark a significant change for the FBI. While agents have been permitted in the past to conduct such surveillance if they had specific information, they have been loath to do so because of confusion about what was actually permitted, law enforcement officials said.

Justice Department and FBI officials said the guidelines will remove serious barriers to the prevention of terrorism.

"The concern is when we're confronted with people like [Zacarias] Moussaoui, or even some of the hijackers, who are known to spend substantial periods of time in mosques or other similar situations, it is very difficult to find out what they're up to," said one senior law enforcement official.

Terrorist organizations operating in this country have sometimes used mosques as recruiting grounds and gathering places. Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind Egyptian cleric now imprisoned for his role in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, built a radical following with links to al Qaeda while preaching at mosques in Brooklyn and Jersey City, for example.

But as word of the new guidelines circulated yesterday, some civil liberties groups expressed fears of a Big Brother government monitoring its citizens.

"The FBI is now telling the American people, 'You no longer have to do anything unlawful in order to get that knock on the door,' " said Laura Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington office. "You can be doing a prefectly legal activity like worshiping or talking in a chat room, they can spy on you anyway."

The new guidelines state simply that FBI agents may enter public places and forums, including publicly accessible Internet sites, to observe, develop leads and investigate. The guidelines do not specifically mention religious institutions, but a senior Justice Department official said last night that the impact of the changes will be dramatic in allowing the FBI to open a window on extremist activity in mosques.

"These are open places," he said. Now, "just because they are FBI agents, they don't have to turn a blind eye to activities visible to other people."

Under guidelines that have been in place for several decades, the FBI has not been permitted to send investigators into religious settings unless the agents can establish they are following a lead, or conducting an investigation or preliminary inquiry. As a practical matter, the Justice Department official said, "agents mistakenly think they have to stop at the church door."

In a written description of the guideline changes made available yesterday, Attorney General John D. Ashcroft stated that the department needs to be able to "proactively draw on available sources of information to identify terrorist threats and activities." In the past, he said, the FBI has been a reactive body, and the guidelines "generally barred the FBI from taking the initiative unless leads as to possible criminal activity or even more substantial evidence of crimes happened to come to the FBI from external sources."

The new rules will allow agents to surf the Internet for Web sites that might give hints to terrorist activity, according to the description. The new guidelines will allow investigators to seek out and "identify sites and forums in which bomb-making instructions, preparations for cyberterrorism, child pornography, and stolen credit card information are openly traded and disseminated."

Under the existing policy, agents could pursue online searches only when they could characterize them as checking leads or otherwise furthering an ongoing investigation.

"Pure surfing or searching for the purpose of initially developing leads was not allowed, even in relation to publicly available information that anyone else is free to access and observe," according to the new policy statement.

Agents will also be permitted to do topical research not directly related to a specific crime under the new guidelines, such as research on a biological agent.

The ACLU's Murphy said, however, that the new guidelines could open the door to the same kind of problems evident in the FBI's aggressive surveillance and harassment of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Several other aspects of the new guidelines, disclosed earlier this week, will move some decision-making authority from FBI headquarters to field offices around the country. FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III acknowledged yesterday that changes must be made to counter bureaucratic inertia at headquarters that led to missed clues in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Under the new guidelines, field office directors will be allowed to launch terrorism investigations and undercover probes without clearance from headquarters.

The guidelines are an outgrowth of privacy laws that prohibit the government from collecting information except for law enforcement purposes. In the past, the government developed information on specific cases but now needs broader intelligence to prevent terrorist acts.



[Edited 3 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 05-29-2002]

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herbivore
Along for the ride


New Mexico
105 posts, Jan 2002

posted 05-29-2002 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for herbivore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I doubt that John P. O'Neill would still be alive today if these rules had been in place a year ago.

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FLKook
Chemspiracy Realist


East Central Florida
1388 posts, Apr 2001

posted 05-30-2002 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FLKook     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This "revamping" of the FBI is outrageous. Far reaching and vague mandates are open to practically any interpretation and spell danger for all of us.

BTW, I believe they have been practicing these tactics all along but now that they are going to be publically acceptable what is the next envelope they'll push?

Pardon my ignorance herbivore but who is John P. O'Neill?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by FLKook on 05-30-2002]

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moonmaiden
speak softly and...


Spokane, WA 99204
52 posts, Sep 2001

posted 05-30-2002 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden   Email moonmaiden   Visit moonmaiden's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FTNWO!

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David
Chemtrail Information Agent


1245 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-30-2002 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for David     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This fits right in...
---------------------------------------------


EU Law Would Turn ISPs Into Spies
By Julia Scheeres
Wired.com
5-29-2

A broad coalition of civil liberties groups is urging the European Parliament to reject a proposal that would require European countries to retain detailed information on citizens' phone and Internet use for policing purposes.

The 626-member assembly is scheduled to vote Thursday on the Communications Data Protection Directive, which is part of a larger overhaul of Europe's telecommunications laws.

If approved, the legislation would require the European Union's 15 member countries to draft laws requiring ISPs and telephone companies to keep track of phone calls, Internet surfing, e-mails, faxes and even pager messages, for an unlimited time period in case the data is needed by law enforcement authorities.

The proposal has been attacked by 40 different civil liberties groups in Europe and the United States, and an online petition has gathered over 16,000 signatures urging parliament members to vote against the data-retention measure.

"This proposal would allow European governments to put ISPs and phone companies in the spy business," said Marc Rotenberg, president of the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), which is based in Washington, D.C. "This basically means open-ended surveillance of all users."

European telecommunications companies have also opposed the measure, which they say will be costly to implement.

An amendment by parliament member Marco Cappato to eliminate the data retention clause from the telecommunication legislation altogether will also be considered on Thursday.

Current EU telecommunications law requires customers' data to be eliminated shortly after the billing cycle expires.

The European push to track communications gained speed after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack in the United States. In October, President George Bush sent a list of 47 recommendations to the Parliament that would align Europe with the U.S. war on terrorism, including longer retention of communication data.

If the European Parliament approves the directive, the 15 member states would be required to pass national legislation in accordance with its provisions, legal experts said.

Ironically, similar efforts to track communication data in the United States as part of the U.S. Patriot Act were rejected by U.S. legislators.
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,52829,00.html

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Alpha-Theta
Superior


ª×µ»ƒ³²²
694 posts, May 2002

posted 05-30-2002 09:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha-Theta   Visit Alpha-Theta's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although this is news to some, there is a bit of propoganda involved.

These press releases come out with the intended interpretation being that this type of "surveillence" is new, and hasn't already been happening.

Well, it has.

One word.

Echelon. NSA's favorite sattelite and telemetry bird. Not to mention the wide network of sattelites known as "MILSTAR", which have been reported to have been used for domestic surveillance on more then one occasion. Also, there are number of other satelites out there, some possesing technologies such as syntel (synthetic telepathy), biological process control (applied from space!!), and a very sophisticated energy transduction system and closed circuit video that can literally "see" through walls and structures.

Venue: Any search Engine
Keywords: "Echelon; Locust; Lacrosse; satellite" "Milstar" "Onyx Radar" "Improved Crystal" "Key Hole"


It has been prophecized that they will slowly release the truth, bit by bit at a time. I am not suprised to see the manifestation of such.

More reference:

---------------------------------
ECHELON

facts and legend about the global surveillance network


The European Union has recently risen the issue of privacy in communications.
Earlier, in May, European Parliament members investigating a suspected U.S.-led global electronic eavesdropping system had abruptly cut short their fact-finding mission to Washington. They were in town to meet with various officials about reported U.S. spying on the European Echelon surveillance network for the benefit of U.S. companies, but left in protest over the Bush administration's apparent unwillingness to meet with them.

Carlos Coelho of Portugal, chairman of a temporary committee investigating the issue, said his team was "concerned and dismayed" that scheduled meetings at the U.S. State and Commerce departments "were canceled at the last minute without a satisfactory explanation." He also said the committee was "very disappointed' that the CIA and National Security Agency refused to meet with it "in spite of the advanced preparations that had been made.

Apart from the allegations, how would that be possible ? Of course most of this type of technology is classified, but needless to say on the Web several hypothesis circulate. This article reviews some of the most popular online.

Imagine a global eavesdropping network capable of intercepting most of the world's telephone calls, faxes and emails, making them available for computer search (eg by keywords) by agencies of the five member UKUSA intelligence alliance. This is what (probably) is Echelon, the supersecret organization created in the 1947 by the secret UKUSA agreement.


It is however very hard to separate the facts from the legend, both because the project is secret and because several fantastic rumors circulate - mostly on the interet - about it.


ECHELON is the term popularly used for an automated global interception and relay system operated by the intelligence agencies in five nations: the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand (it is believed that ECHELON is the code name for the portion of the system that intercepts satellite-based communications).

While the United States National Security Agency (NSA) takes the lead, ECHELON works in conjunction with other intelligence agencies, including the Australian Defence Signals Directorate (DSD). It is believed that ECHELON also works with Britain's Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and the agencies of other allies of the United States, pursuant to various treaties.

According to reports, ECHELON attempts to capture staggering volumes of satellite, microwave, cellular and fiber-optic traffic, including communications to and from North America. This vast quantity of voice and data communications are then processed through sophisticated filtering technologies.

These countries coordinate their activities pursuant to the UKUSA agreement, which dates back to 1947. The original ECHELON dates back to 1971. However, its capabilities and priorities have expanded greatly since its formation.

About its workings, there are only speculations.
It apparently collects data in several ways.
Two steps are crucial: capture of raw data and filtering of data in search of relevant information. See boxes on left column.


According to reports, it is capable of intercepting and processing many types of transmissions, throughout the globe. In fact, it has been suggested that ECHELON may intercept as many as 3 billion communications everyday, including phone calls, e-mail messages, Internet downloads, satellite transmissions, and so on.

The ECHELON system gathers all of these transmissions indiscriminately, then distills the information that is most heavily desired through artificial intelligence programs. Some sources have claimed that ECHELON sifts through an estimated 90 percent of all traffic that flows through the Internet.


The U.S. Intelligence Community
by Jeffrey T. Richelson

or go to the actual page here

definitive and lucid

P.S. Echelon will pick up this particular HTML page as there are numerous "red flags" terms.

[Edited 8 times, lastly by Alpha-Theta on 05-30-2002]

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Alpha-Theta
Superior


ª×µ»ƒ³²²
694 posts, May 2002

posted 05-30-2002 10:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alpha-Theta   Visit Alpha-Theta's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More...


Rumors say Echelon has massive ground based radio antennae to intercept satellite transmissions.(G.W.E.N. , HAARP -A-T) In addition, some sites reputedly are tasked with tapping surface traffic. These antennae reportedly are in the United States, Italy, England, Turkey, New Zealand, Canada, Australia, and several other places. Similarly, it is believed that Echelon uses numerous satellites to catch "spillover" data from transmissions between cities. These satellites then beam the information down to processing centers on the ground. The main centers are in the United States (near Denver), England (Menwith Hill), Australia, and Germany.(also known as the "beast" superprocessors -A-T)
According to some sources, it also routinely intercepts Internet transmissions. The organization allegedly has installed numerous "sniffer" devices. These "sniffers" collect information from data packets as they traverse the Internet via several key junctions.

DATA FILTERING:
After capturing this raw data, Echelon sifts through them using a special system of computers which finds pertinent information by searching for key words, addresses, etc. These search programs help pare down the voluminous quantity of transmissions which pass through the Echelon network every day. These programs also seem to enable users to focus on any specific subject upon which information is desired.

(The process of red flagging certain terms, keywords, characters, phrases for additional in depth analysis)

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White_Skyz
New Member



24 posts, May 2002

posted 05-30-2002 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for White_Skyz   Email White_Skyz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your papers po'lease!!

I guess it makes sense. I mean, they're attempting to gather ALL information on ALL "citizens", and non-citizens alike. Be sure any info they gather will be tagged to our digital concentration camp tattoo, our social security numbers, in a nice big fed database. ("Don't worry"..they said, "this number is only for social security purposes and will never be used as a means for identification" BARF!)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Dubya is busy sealing all gov records and wiping out the FOIA. (Oh yeah...we paid for it, but we don't get to see ANY of it any longer. It's a security thing..you know?)

In the information age, where information is power, we have cronies in OUR (White)HOUSE trying to corner the information market. And WE? are paying for this? Should be interesting to see which groups they will target for extermination first. Won't be long now. Sieg Heil!!

Another interesting observation. Note how almost all citizens groups are oppposing these intrusion laws, and yet the "lawmakers" are moving forward with their agenda anyway. This is a "representative" democracy? My arse! These arrogant bastards have an agenda, and obviously it does not include the need to respect its citizens. Therefore measure are being taken to disrepect the citizens. We will soon seen the extent of their disrespect, as soon they will have an arsenal never before seen in the history of the world. Hundreds of billions of dollars worth of surveillance and death machines. But, "Don't worry"..they said, "these will only be used against the terrorists." (We've all seen their vague definition of a terrorist in their little USPATRIOT act.) And history repeats itself. BARF!

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herbivore
Along for the ride


New Mexico
105 posts, Jan 2002

posted 05-30-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for herbivore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Dear FLKook, here is one of the news stories about John P. O'Neill, an FBI agent who was thwarted by OUR GOVERNMENT in his dogged pursuit of OBL. "New York FBI counter-terrorism chief John O'Neill quit his job in protest of Bush's obstructionism, only to die in his new job as chief of security at the WTC, probably the only man to die that day that understood the context of his death." He was the Man Who Knew Too Much.

The rest of the story:

The Man Who Knew Too Much - Who Killed John O'Neill?
From Jerry Politex
politex@bushwatch.com
© The Daily Brew Bushwatch.com
1-9-2


quote:
If you believe the media, John P. O'Neill was simply another innocent victim killed in the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. But you don't need much imagination to suspect something deeper was at work.

Clearly, O'Neill was a man Osama bin Laden wanted dead. O'Neill had been a Deputy Director of the FBI, and Osama bin Laden's main pursuer in the US government. O'Neill had investigated the bombings of the World Trade Center in 1993, a US base in Saudi Arabia in 1996, the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar-Es-Salaam in 1998, and the USS Cole last year.

But once the first plane hit the North Tower, Osama bin Laden wouldn't be the only man to profit from O'Neill's death. At the moment of impact, O'Neill became the man who knew too much.

Just two weeks, TWO WEEKS, prior to the attack, O'Neill had left his job with the FBI. O'Neill had quit because he believed that the Bush administration had stymied the intelligence agency's investigations on terrorism. O'Neill charged that it had done so even as it bargained with the Taliban on handing over of Osama bin Laden in exchange for political recognition and economic aid. In the ultimate irony, O'Neill had gone public with these charges at the same time that he was leaving the FBI to become the head of security at the World Trade Center.

"The main obstacles to investigate Islamic terrorism were US oil corporate interests, and the role played by Saudi Arabia in it," O'Neill reportedly told the authors of an explosive new book, Hidden Truth, by intelligence analysts Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie. Brisard met O'Neill several times last summer and reports that O'Neill complained bitterly that the US State Department - and behind it the oil lobby who make up President Bush's entourage - blocked attempts to prove bin Laden's guilt.

Released just last November, Brisard and Dasquie's book was mostly ignored by the US media. But it is beginning to cause a stir. Just two days ago, the story aired for the first time on US television when CNN's Paula Zahn interviewed former Iraqi chief U.N. weapons inspector Richard Bulter. "The most explosive charge, Paula, is that the Bush administration -- the present one, just shortly after assuming office slowed down FBI investigations of al Qaeda and terrorism in Afghanistan in order to do a deal with the Taliban on oil -- an oil pipeline across Afghanistan" Butler said.

Maybe part of the reason Paula left Faux news is because she knew her right wing bosses would never let her run a story like this one. But what Paula didn't explore, or even mention, was that O'Neill was not alive to confirm or refute those charges. What CNN didn't find interesting was the fact that John P. O'Neill was in his 34th-floor office in the World Trade Tower when the first of two hijacked planes hit the building, or that he phoned a son and a friend to reassure them he was fine.

What the US media have apparently found less interesting than the death of Clinton's dog is that we have only the government's version of what happened next. O'Neill is reported to have called FBI headquarters, and then re-entered one of the towers to help others. The official story is that O'Neill was inside when the buildings collapsed.

How convenient for the Bush administration that Mr. O'Neill would not only die in the attack, but also that he would make such a call. Not only was the Bush administration's most dangerous critic forever silenced, but he also provided the administration the perfect story to explain his death.

Can you imagine how the events of the past four months would have differed had John P. O'Neill, former Deputy Director of the FBI and head of security at the World Trade Tower at the time of the attacks, had been alive to tell this story?

Can you imagine the uproar this story would be causing if Bill Clinton were still president?

As things stand, only time will tell if O'Neill's story is investigated by the US press that found Monica Lewinsky worthy of two years of our lives. Certainly, the authors who have reported it are credible. Till the late 1990s, Brisard was the director of economic analysis and strategy for Vivendi, the giant French conglomerate that owns Universal Studios and effective control of USA Networks. He also worked for French secret services (DST), and wrote for them in 1997 a report on the now famous Al Qaeda network, headed by bin Laden. Dasquie is an investigative journalist and publisher of Intelligence Online, a respected newsletter on diplomacy, economic analysis and strategy. And Richard Bulter, who put the story in play on the US cable networks, is hardly an excitable conspiracy nut.

Perhaps the CIA will investigate. But I wouldn't expect much from them. After all, they were apparently unable to penetrate the same Al Qaeda network that welcomed in John Walker, a confused 20 year old kid from California, who is reported to have met bin Laden himself.

Note: See also, a reprint of a recent Bush Watch letter, directly below.
___

TODAY'S LETTER AT BUSH WATCH

There's really only one thing that needs to be known about the culpability for 9/11 - during the Clinton administration, no requests for a FISA warrant were denied. (Foreign Intelligence Security Act) Under the Bush administration, previous to 9/11, all such requests were denied, because the Bush administration shut down all intelligence inquiries that would expose Saudi complicity with terrorism. The Minneapolis FBI office, with its 20th hijacker in custody since August, asked for a FISA warrant and was denied. New York FBI counter-terrorism chief John O'Neill quit his job in protest of Bush's obstructionism, only to die in his new job as chief of security at the WTC, probably the only man to die that day that understood the context of his death.... --Kent Southard

http://www.rense.com/general18/neil.htm


My point is that if these new rules had been in effect when John O'Neill was working for the FBI, he still would never have been permitted to successfully complete his investigation.


[Edited 5 times, lastly by herbivore on 05-30-2002]

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herbivore
Along for the ride


New Mexico
105 posts, Jan 2002

posted 05-30-2002 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for herbivore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This one's for you, Sore Throat:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/05/30/congress.guidelines/index.html

Top Democrat slams DOJ terror guidelines

From Kate Snow
CNN Washington Bureau

quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) --Rep. John Conyers, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, issued a scathing statement Thursday in response to new Justice Department guidelines on terrorism investigations.

"The administration's continued defiance of constitutional safeguards seems to have no end in sight," Conyers said in a written statement. "This decision decimates the Fourth Amendment."

Conyers went on to criticize the Justice Department's handling of information related to the September 11 terrorist attacks.

"The Justice Department is intent on another power grab when it has become clear that a lack of competence -- not law enforcement authorities-- prevented the administration from connecting the dots before September 11," he said.

Conyers, a longtime proponent of civil rights causes, said the Bush administration should "immediately halt any efforts to unilaterally expand surveillance authority" and that Congress should be consulted "before implementing further intrusions on our civil liberties."

The Democrat from Michigan called the changes made by Attorney General John Ashcroft a "step backwards for civil liberties in this country."

"Threatening the private practice of religion constitutes a war on freedom, not a war on terror," Conyers said in conclusion.

He took direct aim at Ashcroft in saying: "I hope it is clear to all that taking it upon himself to institute new rules to wiretap religious organizations, including places of worship, the attorney general will do little to help us battle terrorism. Instead, it will simply further alienate the American-Muslim community, a crucial ally in our efforts."



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increase 1776
Senior Member


Oregon
170 posts, Oct 2000

posted 05-30-2002 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for increase 1776     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With fine work like this from the FBI,why, when, will they admit they Fu#*%*&d-up? Answer .NEVER.Ever read about Leonard Peltier,fine piece of FBI work.Check out http://rainbowfarmcamp.com/ This insanity will have to stop soon. Two non violent types gunned down over canabis.WE need to take back OUR COUNTRY from these idiots ,before it's too late

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theseeker
One moon circles


Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3297 posts, Jul 2000

posted 05-25-2003 01:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
kind of suspicious how throat started this thread and disappeared...almost like survielance...checkin' out the sympathizers...

naw

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shatoga
Agent Provocateur


588 posts, Nov 2002

posted 05-27-2003 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shatoga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theseeker:
kind of suspicious how throat started this thread and disappeared...almost like survielance...checkin' out the sympathizers...

naw



Kinda like a patriot appeared briefly in public then dissapeared again into the underground.


Anyone remember Alex Lahan?

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