posted 10-27-2002 01:11 PM            

You spoke of prop ice? The B100 has a prop anti-ice slinger system as well as heated strips so there goes your prop ice theory.

The B100 also has de-icer wing boots although it is possible to still take on wing ice.

Iv'e never flown ILS, only in a simulator and I can see how minimal vision that would caue an accident in the hands of an inexperienced pilot.

Eye witnesses said they saw the plane from the ground from miles away that appeared to be a plane stalling, so it wasn't total whiteout conditions.

Your data is definately true and accurate but it still does not prove the plane was not tampered with or other things done to it that would bring it down.

I'd like to believe it was an accident but, many other politicians and friends of the system have mysteriously met their death when they were exposed to be a threat democrat, republican or otherwise.

posted 10-27-2002 02:31 PM               

If witnesses saw it in a "stall", the crew could very well have developed too much ice beyond the de-ice boots, causing the wing to lose lift and stall. I had this happen to me in the sim about 2 months ago...although the Learjet doesn't have de-ice boots (it has a heated leading edge). The sim instructor failed our anti-ice system and we accumulated too much ice, stalled, and just went down in a near-flat stall...pancaked it in.

posted 10-28-2002 09:14 AM            

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/secret_history/index9_6.shtml

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/nwonazi.html

posted 10-28-2002 12:18 PM               

The airport does not have an operating control tower, just a CTAF frequency.

posted 10-28-2002 08:58 PM               

The CTAF is a communications frequency, sort of like those on a police radio. The CTAF works like this:

Pilots tune their com radios to 122.7 (KEVM's CTAF frequency), and they self-announce their intentions over this frequency. For example, as the King Air crew approached the field on the VOR approach, they would make a radio call like this:

"Eveleth traffic, King Air four one Bravo Echo is five miles inbound, VOR runway two seven approach, two thousand feet, Eveleth"

The other pilots in and around the Eveleth airport that have their com frequencies tuned to the CTAF (as they all should) would hear that. If there was any pertinant information that should be passed on to the King Air crew, they'd respond:

"King Air on final to Eveleth, be advised that there are numerous birds in the vicinity of runway two seven"

So I really don't know the direction you're attempting to go with your CTAF question.

As for the EM pulse, yes, EM can disrupt electrical functions on an airplane, but it shouldn't just fall out of the sky at a steep angle. The engines should still operate, even if they have digital engine controls (every engine can revert to a manual mechanical backup system). And certain instruments, namely the airspeed indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator, don't operate off of electrical power either...purely mechanical. And those are really the only instruments you need to fly with.

So despite Hollywood-inspired scenes of aircraft losing total control due to EM waves, they can fly fine. The only aircraft that would have real trouble are those that only have fly-by-wire control systems. And the King Air A100 has a cable and pulley system.

posted 10-29-2002 11:30 AM            

Since the A-100 is mechanical on the landing gear, it would seem unlikely that an EM disruptor would have done the dirty work on that.

OK, let me ask you this. Just for a second imagine that the powers that be wanted a guy like Wellstone taken out. With your expertise on piloting, how would such a thing be carried out on said A-100.

Just a side note. Look at all the ideology of the government people that have died in plane crashes.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14399

posted 01-01-2004 02:23 PM            

EVIDENCE MOUNTS THAT PAUL WELLSTONE WAS MURDERED!

DID DICK CHENEY GIVE THE ORDER?

Ass. Press Semantics Alert---The Above Question Is Rhetorical.

Point of View By JIM FETZER

One man's opinion: Evidence indicates that Wellstone crash was no accident
http://www.theassassinatedpress.com/fetzer.htm

SPECIAL TO THE ASSASSINATED PRESS
Posted on Thu, Nov. 20, 2003

Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone was a serious man who cared profoundly about his fellow citizens. He took courageous stands against an administration that he viewed with profound suspicion, arguing eloquently against tax cuts for the rich, the subversion of the Constitution, and violating international accords. He would have led the opposition to the war in Iraq if only he had had the chance. Everyone knew it and he may have died because of it.

For nearly a year now, evidence has been accumulating about the event that ended the life of this magnificent human being. Whatever caused the crash was not the plane, the pilots or the weather. In spite of what you may have heard, the plane was exceptional, the pilots well-qualified and the weather posed no significant problems. Even the National Transportation Safety Board's own simulations of the plane, the pilots and the weather were unable to bring the plane down.

This means we have to consider other, less palatable, alternatives, such as small bombs, gas canisters or electromagnetic pulse, radio frequency or High Energy Radio Frequency weapons designed to overwhelm electrical circuitry with an intense electromagnetic field. An abrupt cessation of communication between the plane and the tower took place at about 10:18 a.m., the same time an odd cell phone phenomenon occurred with a driver in the immediate vicinity. This suggests to me the most likely explanation is that one of our new electromagnetic weapons was employed.

The politics of the situation were astonishing. The senator was pulling away from the hand-picked candidate of the Bush machine. Its opportunity to seize control of the U.S. Senate was slipping from its grasp. Its vaunted "invincibility" was being challenged by an outspoken critic of its most basic values. Targeted for elimination, he was going to survive. Here's one man's opinion: Under such conditions, the temptation to take him out may have been irresistible.

Among the striking indications that something was wrong with the NTSB in its inquiry into the causes of the crash is that Carol Carmody, a former employee with the CIA, the head of the team, announced the day after that the FBI had found no indications of terrorist involvement. Yet it is the responsibility of the NTSB to ascertain the cause of the crash, which has yet to be determined to this very day.

So how could the FBI possibly know?

The FBI's prompt arrival was peculiar. As Christopher Bollyn of American Free Press reported (www.rumor millnews.net, Oct. 29, 2002), "According to Rick Wahlberg, then St. Louis County sheriff, a team of FBI agents was quickly on the crash site about noon, less than an hour after (assistant manager Gary) Ulman and the (fire) chief had first located the site and found a way to access the wreck. This FBI team had come from the distant Twin Cities in record time!"

When Bollyn "asked Ulman if he had notified the FBI about the accident, Ulman said he had not spoken with the bureau at any time. Asked how the FBI got to the site so quickly, Ulman said that he assumed they had come from Duluth. AFP contacted the Duluth office of the FBI and was told that the team of 'recovery' agents had not come from Duluth but had traveled from the FBI office in Minneapolis."

I calculate that this team would have had to have left the Twin Cities at about the same time the Wellstone plane was taking off.

Gary Ulman confirmed to me that the FBI had been on the scene no later than 1 p.m.

I have reviewed the log books maintained by the Sheriff's Department at Eveleth and have discovered that they are grossly incomplete and cannot confirm when the FBI showed up.

The FAA has told me that its records of private aircraft arriving in Duluth that morning have been destroyed, even though they might verify the FBI's early arrival.

And the NTSB has canceled sessions where it would ordinarily take input from the public.

Michael Ruppert (fromthe wilderness.com, Nov. 1, 2002) has reported, "The day after the crash I received a message from a former CIA operative who has proven extremely reliable in the past and who is personally familiar with these kinds of assassinations. The message read, 'As I said earlier, having played ball (and still playing in some respects) with this current crop of reinvigorated old white men, these clowns are nobody to screw around with. There will be a few more strategic accidents. You can be certain of that.' "

If you think that's a stretch, consider: Hundreds of young Americans have been put in harm's way by a war that was promoted on the basis of lies about weapons of mass destruction, collaboration with Osama bin Laden, and Sept. 11.

Some 3,000 Americans were killed when the Twin Towers collapsed, and yet the president and the vice president of the United States have done everything they can to obstruct a open and honest investigation of the causes of that traumatic event. And when a leak from his own administration leads to the exposure of a CIA operative concerned with weapons of mass destruction, the President tells us "we may never know."

This is a corrupt administration.

One of the oddest events since the election is that Wellstone's successor in the U.S. Senate, Norm Coleman, has been placed in charge of the Senate Investigations Committee.

That is an extraordinarily sensitive responsibility to be placed upon a freshman senator with no previous experience. My guess would be that it has never happened before. But the reasoning behind it may not be that difficult to fathom: Would anyone be less inclined to pursue the Wellstone death?

One man's opinion: The evidence presented here and elaborated elsewhere in detail establishes a prima facie case that this death was no accident, that the motives were political and begs the question: Was the White House involved?

An investigation by the St. Louis County prosecutor would be most welcome.

In the chorus of memories for a man who made a difference, let us bear in mind that truth is our only defense against an onslaught of lies that have dominated a media that appears too weak or too complicit to resist.

posted 01-01-2004 06:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by swamp gas:

Back to the so-called communist conspiracy and our “Great American Hero” Joe McCarthy. The CIA recruited Nazis to take part in the new hunt for communists. Strange coincidence that all the communist hunters were all American Nazi-sympathizers or former Nazis. Prescott Bush, The Rockefellers, IBM, Standard Oil, General Motors, Ford, Nixon, Allen Dulles, and McCarthy were all sympathetic to the Nazi cause…Wiping out communism, which was bad for big business interests. Thank the God and Goddess for Edward R Murrow.
Then we bring in Reinhard Gehlan, head of eastern Europe SS for the Nazis during WW2. Allen Dulles turns around and makes him CIA head of………Eastern Europe. Gehlan then reports that the Russians/Communists are building huge armaments at the Polish border. The Russians were devastated after WW2. They did not at that time have the firepower near Europe that Gehlan was purporting. So, the Cold War was started as a fabrication. Then McCarthy and all, hunt Jews, Communists, anti-war activists, union organizers, musicians, Einstein, you name it, as Reds. This, I believe, was a smoke screen to hide the fact that the United Snakes of OilmeriKKKA was hiding Nazis in it’s midst. I watched this in the 50’s, not reading it as most do, with history books tainted by big business interests. How does this relate to Paul Wellstone? It is not beyond Nazis, Mafia, and the military-industrial complex to sell out a country or kill those who get in their way.
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/secret_history/index9_6.shtml

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/nwonazi.html

---

Now that you mention the McCarthy distraction.

McCarthy?
the magician does a flourish with one hand to distract the audience while he does the trick with the other hand.

The US was busy looking for non existent commies while Nazis were being brought in at taxpayer expense:

part two:
>Nazis and Bush family history: Government investigated Bush family's financing of Hitler
By Carla Binion
December 21, 2000 | This article on Nazis in the Republican party was originally published in Online Journal on 1/28/00. However, the following includes additional information regarding George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott, and his maternal grandfather, George Herbert (Bert) Walker, and the fact that the U. S. government investigated their financing of Adolf Hitler.
One book referenced here, Christopher Simpson's "Blowback," was praised by journalist Seymour Hersh as "the ultimate book about the worst kind of cold war thinking." Nora Levin, Director, Holocaust Archive, Gratz College, said "The full story of this country's shameful, cynical collaboration with Nazi criminals has not been told until now with the publication of Simpson's book." Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman said, 'Blowback' is a must read for anyone who wants to understand postwar policy on Nazi war criminals and the cold war."
In another Simpson book, "The Splendid Blonde Beast," the author wrote about George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott, and his maternal grandfather, George Herbert Walker. Both Bert Walker and Prescott Bush were powerful financial supporters of Adolf Hitler.
Walker was president of Union Banking Corporation, a firm that traded with Germany and helped German industrialists consolidate Hitler's political power. Simpson says Union Banking became a Nazi money-laundering machine.
Walker helped take over North American operations of Hamburg-Amerika Line, a shipping line and cover for I. G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the U. S. Hamburg-Amerika smuggled in German agents, and brought in money for bribing American politicians to support Hitler. A 1934 congressional investigation showed Hamburg-Amerika subsidized Nazi propaganda efforts in the U. S.
George H. W. Bush's father, Prescott, was a board member of Union Banking and a senior partner in a Union Banking affiliate—the investment firm Brown Brothers, Harriman. The U. S. government investigated both Bert Walker and Prescott Bush, and under the Trading with the Enemy Act seized all shares of Union Banking, including shares held by Prescott Bush. The government held that "huge sections of Prescott Bush's empire had been operated on behalf of Nazi Germany and had greatly assisted the German war effort."
Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in "Blowback" that after World War II, Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U. S. These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees." Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas. The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler. It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party.
Simpson shows how the State Department and the CIA put high-ranking Nazis on the intelligence payroll "for their expertise in propaganda and psychological warfare," among other purposes. The most important Nazi employed by the U.S. was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's most senior eastern front military intelligence officer. After Germany's defeat became certain, Gehlen offered the U. S. certain concessions in exchange for his own protection. Gehlen promoted hyped up cold war propaganda on behalf of the political right in this country, and helped shape U.S. perceptions of the cold war.
Journalist Russ Bellant ("Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party") shows that Laszlo Pasztor, a convicted Nazi war collaborator, built the Republican émigré network. Pasztor, who served as adviser to Republican Paul Weyrich, belonged to the Hungarian Arrow Cross, a group that helped liquidate Hungary's Jews. Pasztor was founding chairman of the Republican Heritage Groups Council.
Two months before the November 1988 presidential election, a small newspaper, Washington Jewish Week, disclosed that a coalition for the Bush campaign included a number of outspoken Nazis and anti-Semites. The article prompted six leaders of Bush's coalition to resign.
According to Russ Bellant, Nazi collaborators involved in the Republican Party included:
(1) Radi Slavoff, GOP Heritage Council's executive director, and head of "Bulgarians for Bush." Slavoff was a member of a Bulgarian fascist group, and he put together an event in Washington honoring Holocaust denier, Austin App.
(2) Florian Galdau, director of GOP outreach efforts among Romanians, and head of "Romanians for Bush." Galdau was once an Iron Guard recruiter, and he defended convicted Nazi war criminal Valerian Trifa.
(3) Nicholas Nazarenko, leader of a Cossack GOP ethnic unit. Nazarenko was an ex-Waffen SS officer.
(4) Method Balco, GOP activist. Balco organized yearly memorials for a Nazi puppet regime.
(5) Walter Melianovich, head of the GOP's Byelorussian unit. Melianovich worked closely with many Nazi groups.
(6) Bohdan Fedorak, leader of "Ukranians for Bush." Fedorak headed a Nazi group involved in anti-Jewish wartime pogroms.
The Philadelphia Inquirer ran an article on the Bush team's inclusion of Nazis (David Lee Preston, "Fired Bush backer one of several with possible Nazi links," September 10, 1988.) The newspaper also ran an investigative series on Nazi members of the Bush coalition. The articles confirmed that the Bush team included members listed by Russ Bellant.
Journalist Martin A. Lee, has written for The Nation, Rolling Stone, The San Francisco Chronicle, and other publications. In "The Beast Reawakens," Lee confirms that during both the Reagan and Bush years, the Republican Party's ethnic outreach arm recruited members from the Nazi émigré network.
Lee says that the Republican Party's ethnic outreach division had an outspoken hatred of President Jimmy Carter's Office of Special Investigations (OSI), an organization dedicated to tracking down and prosecuting Nazi war collaborators who entered this country illegally. Former Republican Pat Buchanan attacked Carter's OSI after it deported a few suspected Nazi war criminals.
According to Lee, public relations man Harold Keith Thompson was principal U.S. point man for the postwar Nazi support network known as die Spinne, or the Spider. In the late 40s and early 50s, Thompson worked as the chief North American representative for the remaining National Socialist German Worker's Party and the SS. Lee writes that the wealthy Thompson gave generously to Republican candidates Senator Jesse Helms and would-be senator Oliver North. Thompson's money gained him membership in the GOP's Presidential Legion of Merit. Lee says Thompson also "received numerous thank-you letters from the Republican National Committee." Those letters are now in the Hoover Institution Special Collections Library.
Christopher Simpson writes in "Blowback" that in 1983, Ronald Reagan presented a Medal of Freedom, the country's highest civilian honor, to CIA émigré program consultant James Burnham. Burnham was a psychological warfare consultant who promoted something called "liberationism." Just before the 1952 election, the CIA worked up a multimillion-dollar public relations campaign aimed at selling Americans on expanding cold war activities in Europe. Part of the guiding theory (given the name "liberationism") was the idea that certain Nazi leaders from World War II should be brought in as "freedom fighters" against the USSR.
Reagan said that Burnham's ideas on liberation "profoundly affected the way America views itself and the world," adding, "I owe [Burnham] a personal debt, because throughout the years of traveling on the mashed-potato circuit I have quoted [him] widely." Reagan may not have known Burnham's theories were based on his work on projects that enlisted many Nazi collaborators, but it seems that Reagan's CIA Director Casey or former CIA Director, Vice President George Bush, would have informed him.
At a May 9, 1984 press conference, Simon Wiesenthal said, "Nazi criminals were the principal beneficiaries of the Cold War." The cold war mentality, hyped by Reinhard Gehlen and other Nazis, became the shelter for tens of thousands of Nazi criminals. Helping the far right in this country to promote cold war hysteria became the Nazi war criminals "reason for being." As Christopher Simpson says, the cold war became those criminals' means "to avoid responsibility for the murders they had committed."
Journalist Seymour Hersh says Christopher Simpson's "Blowback" is "the ultimate book about the worst kind of cold war thinking, in which some of our most respected statesmen made shameful decisions that they mistakenly believed to be justified." To this day, says Simpson, the U. S. intelligence agencies hide the scope of their post-World War II collaboration with Nazi criminals.
Are Republicans like George H. W. Bush, Oliver North, and Jesse Helms aware they have been assisted by Nazi collaborators? Bush once worked for the CIA and should have known about the nature of the Nazis in his '88 campaign. No doubt he knows the history of Nazi/CIA collaboration. Whether or not Bush knew of the fascists' involvement in his campaign, the Republican Party should have done a far better screening job. One thing is certain: The intelligence agencies know the scope and extent of Nazi involvement with the political right in this country. It is a shame they keep it hidden from the majority of the American people.
<
part one:
>Nazis and the Republican Party
By Carla Binion
January 28, 2000 |
Investigative reporter Christopher Simpson says in "Blowback" that after World War II,
Nazi émigrés were given CIA subsidies to build a far-right-wing power base in the U. S.
These Nazis assumed prominent positions in the Republican Party's "ethnic outreach committees."
Simpson documents the fact that these Nazis did not come to America as individuals
but as part of organized groups with fascist political agendas.
The Nazi agenda did not die along with Adolf Hitler.
It moved to America (or a part of it did) and joined the far right of the Republican Party.< http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/Special_Reports/Nazis/nazis.html http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.htm http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm
Takes the same actions, for the same reasons,as the Nazis did:
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism
and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same in any country."
Hermann Goering,
{It's working in America today!}
-it's a Nazi party=GOP
And I'm not the only person who has noticed! http://home.attbi.com/~slimyslugs/reichstag_fire_and_september_11.htm http://falloutshelternews.com/BushHitlerLinks.html http://www.propagandamatrix.com/bush_school_photos_2.html http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/apocalypse/25_reasons.html http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/what_was_the_government_doing.htm http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/g6b_calgary.html http://the-news.net/cgi-bin/story.pl?title=September%2011%20-%20US%20Government%20accused&edition=663 http://web11.superb.net/www.nodomain.com/editorials/smoking_gun.html
<" target=_blankhttp://www.falloutshelternews.com/images/GWREICH.JPG>;
Remove ">" brackets "<" to view image
<" target=_blankhttp://home.attbi.com/~slimyslugs/reichstag_fire__september_11.jpg>; http://www.falloutshelternews.com/What_Would_Hitler_Do.html http://www.freefromterror.net http://www.copvcia.com http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index1a.html http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html%20 http://www.tetrahedron.org http://rense.com/general25/genr.htm http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2797&forum=DCForumID12 http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5853&forum=DCForumID38
"something that's really important and is so true...
Democrats are just as patriotic about their country as Republicans"
George W. Bush- January 22, 2001
Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.
more... http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm
peace
--
Image
"The only true wisdom consists in knowing that you know nothing" Socrates
Send an email blast to the media today! http://globalfreepress.com/media_blast.pl
also check out a REAL free press... http://news.globalfreepress.com <

McCarthy?
the magician does a flourish with one hand to distract the audience while he does the trick with the other hand.