posted 10-25-2002 01:51 PM               

A look at the facts makes a pilot like myself wonder why the King Air crew even elected to fly there in the first place.

The weather at the field was reported at 4 miles visibility with light snow, and a ceiling of 400 feet overcast.

Eveleth-Virginia airport (EVM) only has a VOR and a GPS approach, and I rarely ever see one of those types of non-precision approaches have a height-above-touchdown (HAT) of less than 600-800 feet.

One common cause of accidents involving turbine-powered aircraft is ALA/CFIT, or Approach and Landing Accidents and Controlled Flight Into Terrain. In most instances, the flight crews were unaware that they were too close to the ground and packed it in.

One factor that leads to alot of CFIT accidents is descending below approach minimums. Say, for example, they flew the VOR approach into EVM. The approach's minimum descent altitude is listed as, say, 400 feet HAT(same altitude as the cloud bottoms). They get down to the MDA and they can't see the runway. Knowing that the congressman needs to get there, they decide to "cheat" a bit and go a bit lower. At that point, they might pick up a few references to the runway, but now they are below a normal glidepath to the runway, but don't realize it due to the poor visibility. They continue the descent without really noticing it and impact the ground short of the runway.

posted 10-25-2002 02:18 PM               

KEVM 251634Z AUTO 00000KT 4SM -SN OVC004 01/00 A3003 RMK AO2

KEVM 251614Z AUTO 13003KT 4SM -SN OVC004 01/00 A3004 RMK AO2

To translate, KEVM is the airport identifier. 25 is the date (Oct 25) the next numbers (ie 1614Z) is the zulu time. AUTO means it was an automated report (ie it was transmitted by automated means). The next numbers are the winds (ie 13003KT means 130 - SE - at 03 knots). The 4SM -SN means 4 statue miles, light snow. OVC004 means overcast at 400 feet above ground level. 01/00 means temperature was 01 C, dewpoint was 00 C. The number with A in front of it is the altimeter setting in inches of mercury (ie 3004 is 30.04").

posted 10-25-2002 02:40 PM            

One would have to look at the mystery surrounding the crash with Ron Brown, and the bullet fragments in his head.

Did you also know that Richard Nixon and Joe McCarthy were Nazi sympathizers in the 40's? They then went after Communists and Jews, the most hated groups by the Nazis. Nixon quietly detached himself from McCarthy, being the shrewd politician he was. I watched this stuff in the 50's. I wish good and evil were as clear as Darth Vader vs The Jedis. Unfortunatly, there is so much info and disinfo, you have to take that dreaded "leap of logic" to see whose on the side of the common man or woman.

posted 10-25-2002 04:07 PM            

Sometimes...certain folks KNOW TOO MUCH.

Gotta snuff-em before they spill the beans.

Right George?

posted 10-25-2002 05:16 PM            

would have rather seen him lose the election...than his and his families lives...damn shame...

btw gas, McCarthy came off in history as a political headhunter, but according to some declassified documents from the former USSR (kgb), he was correct and communists were indeed in hollywood and elsewhere trying to infiltrate government...and the minds of American people...

glad to see the "whole bird" back btw...was wondering about you

posted 10-25-2002 06:45 PM               

My own background: I'm a fully trained mishap investigator for the USAF. I've been to the formal school at Kirtland AFB and I've attended recurrent training locally. Although I'm not a pathologist (and thus can't confirm or deny the information about the pathology of Ron Brown) there were certain flags that popped up in the story concerning both the actual accident (I've read the full report, including all the data and evidence) as well as things that the Lt Col stated that don't jive with the way the USAF does business.

posted 10-25-2002 09:11 PM            

My prayers go out to his remaining family. Politics should be left aside, at least for the time being.

posted 10-25-2002 09:20 PM            

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because of the unprecedented public and personal destruction Senator Joseph Raymond McCarthy (R-WI) was forced to endure in his heroic effort to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution upon which he swore an oath, it is tantamount to state at the outset that Joe McCarthy has been completely vindicated by history. The recently de classified Venona decryptions, a new biography by Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the life and legacy of America's most hated Senator, and even the Sunday New York Times Magazine, not to mention mountains of congressional testimony and confessions over decades, indicate that Joe McCarthy was right.

McCarthy headed up a Senatorial committee in the 1950's, charged with investigating secret communists in the government, nothing more and nothing less. McCarthy, in fact, was only able to scratch the surface regarding this monstrous conspiracy, the reverberations of which continue to threaten the very foundations of our civilization to this day.

Joe McCarthy exemplified a sort of muscular, manly, moral courage that is rarely found in this era of ours, an era, which holds as the greatest virtue a fuzzy sort of mediocrity and moral relativism, which is, euphemistically, called "tolerance". McCarthy referred to his investigation of communism, according to Herman, as like"skunk hunting". "Digging out a skunk," he stated, "is a dirty, smelly business. No one wants to be near you when you're done - but someone's got to do it". McCarthy stated:

"Average Americans can do very little insofar as digging Communist espionage agents out of our government is concerned. They must depend upon those of us whom they send down here to man the watchtowers of the nation. The thing that I think we must remember is that this is a war, which a brutalitarian force has won to a greater extent than any brutalitarian force has won a war in the history of the world before.

You can talk about Communism as though it's something ten thousand miles away. Let me say it's right here with us now. Unless we make sure that there is no infiltration of our government, then just as certain as you sit there, in the period of our lives you will see a Red world.

Anyone who has followed the Communist conspiracy, even remotely, and can add two and two, will tell you that there is no remote possibility of this war which we are in today--and it's a war, a war which we've been losing--no remote possibility of this ending except by victory or by death for this civilization."

McCarthy, as a US Senator, was entrusted to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. For this, he paid a grievous price at the hands of those who were, by any objective standards, traitors to our system of government. This is not a case of, as the left likes to say, "moral equivalence", McCarthy was right and the Communists and their constellation of fellow travelers, camp followers, and parlor pinks were wrong.

McCarthy delivered a speech, February 9, 1950; to the Republican Women's Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, where he stated that there were at least 57 known Communists in the U.S. State Department and that the State Department knew that they were there. Out of respect for the system of due process, McCarthy would always go to great lengths not to publicly name names, something the left would use to discredit him.

President Harry S. Truman's Secretary of State, Dean Acheson, was known to be sympathetic to Communism. In the 1930's, Acheson's law-firm was employed to represent the interests of J.V. Stalin's left-wing Soviet Union in the US. Acheson had ignored FBI reports concerning the Communist connections of his protégé Alger Hiss, had been the chief U.S. advisor at Yalta, February 1945, which turned Eastern Europe over to the Communists, and had presided over the drafting of the communistic United Nations Charter. Acheson was known to foster the careers of Communists in the State Department while shafting anti-Communists.

Besides putting the government on notice regarding communists, McCarthy, due in part to his bombastic style, brought the issue of communism in general to the American public like no one else in American history. The left dominated media fails to mention that Joe McCarthy was wildly popular in his day and was thought to be one of the few public figures that spoke plainly and truthfully about the communist conspiracy. This, in spite of the vicious agitprop hate machine of the left media, which moved against him from day one.

McCarthy substantially contributed in a cultural shift toward an understanding of the nature of freedom and liberty and how fragile these things are. This, more than any other reason, was why a left-wing establishment loathed him and rightfully perceived him as a major threat to their diabolical agenda. They have been hell-bent, ever since, on insuring that Joe McCarthy would be considered to be the most hated man in modern American history.

Page URL: http://www.chuckmorse.com/joe_mccarthy_was_right.html
Host Web site: http://www.chuckmorse.com

posted 10-25-2002 09:25 PM            

The communist goals were entered into the Congressional record by Albert Herlong, Jr. (a Floridian who served in Congress from 1949-69).

1) US acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2) US willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3) Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the US would be a demonstration of "moral strength."

4) Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5) Extension of long term loans to Russia and Soviet Satellites.

6) Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7) Grant recognition of Red China, and admission of Red China to the UN.

8) Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the UN.

9) Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the US has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10) Allow all Soviet Satellites individual representation in the UN.

11) Promote the UN as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the UN as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo).

12) Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13) Do away with loyalty oaths.

14) Continue giving Russia access to the US Patent Office.

15) Capture one or both of the political parties in the US.

16) Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17) Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism, and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in text books.

18) Gain control of all student newspapers.

19) Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20) Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21) Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22) Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substitute shapeless, awkward, and meaningless forms.

23) Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24) Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25) Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography, and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26) Present homosexuality, degeneracy, and promiscuity as "normal, natural, and healthy."

27) Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28) Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29) Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30) Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man".

31) Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture": Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32) Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture - - education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33) Eliminate all laws or procedures, which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34) Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35) Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36) Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37) Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38) Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.

39) Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40) Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41) Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42) Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political, or social problems.

43) Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44) Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45) Repeal the Connally Reservation so the US can not prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More Information about Albert Herlong, Jr.:

His bio: http://www.lib.usf.edu/spccoll/guide/f/flarep/hh43.html

The goals that he read were taken from "The Naked Communist" by Cleon Skousen, which can be purchased from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568493673/

Other Links: http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm

posted 10-25-2002 09:29 PM            

What's that smell?

I agree with Swamp gas...Very fishy.

I also agree that the family should be left alone and not harrased by our lovely corporate media.

Be that as it may....those THINGS that make you go HMMMMMM.?
http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/senator-assassination.html

posted 10-26-2002 09:38 AM            

Subject: Was wellstone shot down?

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17030-2002Oct25.html
Wreckage was spread over a wide area, indicating that it did not nose into
> the ground but crashed at a relatively flat angle. The wreckage was charred,
> but that could have been caused by a postcrash fire, officials pointed out.

or was shot down or bombed. When they say - The wreckage was charred - do they
mean all the wreckage, even the spread out stuff? If so, the fire must have started
before it broke up - in other words, the plane exploded in mid air, and in my recently
published article, I examined the question of mid air explosions in meticulous detail...
More info needed - keep an eye on this one.

posted 10-26-2002 10:31 AM            

It should be clear by now that the corporate media is merely the propaganda arm of the corporate powers-that-be. If it's best for all us sheeple to believe that Wellstone's death was an accident, then that's what they'll report. A permanent People's Investigation is what we need, to dig into 9/11, this incident, and anything else that smells rat funky. Such an investigation would be constantly busy, and its biggest enemy would not be the fascist rulers of this country, or even the sloppiness that characterizes some "conspiracy" theorizing, but the blindered skeptics who are afraid to question anything and would prefer to keep their heads in the sand.

This is it, folks, war has been declared on us by those among us who seek to give absolute power to a fascist regime that wants to plunge us and the world into an eternal war to fuel their own lust for wealth and power. If America allows this murder to go unaddressed, uninvestigated by an unbiased, thorough investigators in a search for facts open at every turn to the public, then our nation is doomed. The Nazis are here to stay. Who then, will be next? Us?

posted 10-26-2002 10:55 AM            

TYPE: PT-6A-42
850 shaft horsepower
Max RPM....2000

Speeds indicated in Knots

VMO.........259 or .52mach (max speed)
VNO.........186 (Maximum structural cruise speed)
VFE..........40% @ 200 (max flap extention speed)
............100% @ 157

Gear

VLO-Extention.....182 (max gear lowered op. speed)
VLO-Retraction....163

VLE................181(max gear extention speed)

VA--@ 12,500lbs.....181(design manuvering speed)

Rate of climb @ sealevel 2300fpm

Ceiling....35,000 ft.

Total takeoff distance = 945ft.

Landing ground roll = 2000ft.

Max speed.........259kts.

Recommended runway approach speed....121kts.

Stall speed..Full flaps, gear extended= 75kts.
No flaps and gear retracted...99kts

Climb speed...121 kts.

Lift off....95kts.

Fuel.. Jet A

Equipped with De-ice/Anti-icing wing boots

Modern ILS system and weather radar.

posted 10-26-2002 11:41 AM            

Officials Probe Wellstone Crash
October 26, 2002

By MIKE WILSON, Associated Press Writer

EVELETH, Minn. (AP) - Federal investigators searched the wreckage of a small plane Saturday for clues in the crash that killed Sen. Paul Wellstone, as colleagues mourned the death of the liberal congressman and tried to determine who would replace him on the November ballot.

Carol Carmody, acting chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board (news - web sites), said the first priority for a 16-member NTSB team that arrived at the crash site late Friday was finding the chartered plane's cockpit voice recorder.

"This is a serious accident," Carmody said. "Eight people were killed. Sen. Wellstone was a very important national figure. Of course we want to send a full team to do everything we can to find out what happened."

Carmody said Saturday that the NTSB team would be at the site for four to six days, but it could take months to determine the cause of the crash.

The twin-engine plane carrying Wellstone, his wife, daughter and five others went down in a swampy, wooded area about two miles from the tiny Eveleth-Virginia Municipal Airport in northeastern Minnesota's Iron Range.

Wellstone was headed to the funeral of a state representative's father when the plane crashed Friday morning in freezing rain and light snow.

The wreckage was still smoldering several hours after the crash, several hundred yards from the closest paved road and about 175 miles north of Minneapolis. There were no survivors.

Carmody said only the tail of the plane was intact. Investigators will examine trees for indications of the angle of the plane's descent, and will review records to determine if the weather was a factor in the crash, she said.

The terrain will make the job harder. "It's a complicated site, very marshy, lots of trees," Carmody said.

The National Weather Service had issued an advisory to pilots that morning that icing was possible, and the airport's assistant manager, Gary Ulman, said the wreckage was not on the usual approach to the runway, suggesting the pilot might have aborted the landing.

"It's just terrible. Say a prayer," said Lisa Pattni, an aide at the crash site.

Wellstone's death brought an outpouring of grief from both supporters and opponents of the 58-year-old Democrat, known as one of the foremost liberals on Capitol Hill.

"Everybody who knew him has a clear picture of him, bouncing around, jabbing, saying his piece, standing up for the underdog and the unspoken-for," said Garrison Keillor, the writer and satirist who hosts the "Prairie Home Companion" radio show. "A lot of people voted for him who didn't really agree with him — they just liked him so much."

In St. Paul, thousands of mourners stood in cold rain to pay tribute at the Statehouse and outside the senator's headquarters.

"It doesn't seem real," said Tom Collins, who had done volunteer work for Wellstone's campaign. "It's a nightmare."

All eight people aboard the 11-seat King Air A-100 were killed, said Greg Martin, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration (news - web sites). Campaign officials confirmed the victims included Wellstone's wife, Sheila, 58, and daughter, Marcia, 33; three campaign staff members; and two pilots.

The last senator to die in office was Sen. Paul Coverdell, a 61-year-old Georgia Republican who died of a stroke two years ago.

"Today the state of Minnesota has suffered a deep and penetrating loss," Gov. Jesse Ventura said. "With all of us suffering from the numbing experiences of our nation's recent tragedies, this loss seems especially cruel."

Wellstone's death threw the battle for the Senate into uncharted territory. Before Friday, Democrats held control by a single seat.

Minnesota law allows the governor to fill a vacant Senate seat, but it also allows a political party to pick a replacement if a nominee dies. In this case, the name must be offered by next Thursday.

Ventura wouldn't say what he would do, saying only that he would not appoint himself to serve the rest of Wellstone's term in the lame-duck session of Congress between Election Day and the arrival of new members.

Democrats said names being suggested as possible replacements on the ballot for Wellstone included former Vice President Walter Mondale; his son, Ted, an unsuccessful gubernatorial candidate; Skip Humphrey, former state attorney general and son of former Vice President Hubert Humphrey; state Supreme Court Justice Alan Page, a former pro football star; and state Attorney General Mike Hatch.

"I just want to spend today mourning," Mondale, who will turn 75 in January, told The Washington Post for its Saturday edition.

Two years ago, Missouri Gov. Mel Carnahan , his son and an aide were killed in a crash three weeks before Election Day as he campaigned for the Senate. His name remained on the ballot and he beat Republican Sen. John Ashcroft. Carnahan's widow, Jean, was appointed to serve in his place and is now running in a special election against Republican Jim Talent, with the winner completing the six-year term originally won by Mel Carnahan.

Jean Carnahan on Friday called Wellstone's death "heartbreaking news."

Wellstone was up against Republican Norm Coleman, a former mayor of St. Paul and President Bush's choice to challenge the two-term incumbent.

"The people of Minnesota have experienced a terrible, unimaginable tragedy," Coleman said.

At the site, FBI spokesman Paul McCabe said there was no indication the crash was related to terrorism. He also said it would take time to recover the bodies, which remained in the wreckage.

In Texas, Bush called Wellstone "a man of deep convictions."

"He was a plainspoken fellow who did his best for his state and for his country," the president said. "May the good Lord bless those who grieve."

Before running for office, Wellstone was a professor and community organizer who fused the two passions in a course he taught at Carleton College in Northfield called "Social Movements and Grassroots Organizing."

He stunned the political establishment by upsetting Republican Sen. Rudy Boschwitz in 1990. Afterward, left-leaning Mother Jones magazine called him "the first 1960s radical elected to the U.S. Senate."

Wellstone pledged to stay for no more than two terms, but last year announced he would be running again. In February, he said he had been diagnosed with a mild form of multiple sclerosis but didn't stop campaigning.

"For me, no stress would be stress," Wellstone said at the time. "The stress of this campaign is what I want to do, to be perfectly honest. And the stress of being a senator is what I want to do."

Wellstone also had two sons, David, 37, and Mark, 30, and six grandchildren. Funeral arrangements were incomplete.

___

On the Net:

Campaigns: http://wellstone.senate.gov and http://www.colemanforsenate.com

posted 10-26-2002 09:17 PM               

The fact is, as a pilot myself, I wouldn't have even attempted the flight. The weather was below the minimums for the approaches. There was forcast freezing rain. USAF regs would dictate that even attempting that flight would be illegal. And I believe that even the FAR part 135 requires that your destination's weather be at or above minimums. Before the flight got off the ground, the pilots had made a huge error in judgement.

There are a number of things that could have happened. They could have iced up the airplane really bad. Their props could have iced up and they could have thrown a prop. They could have had ice ingestion in the engine resulting in an engine failure (and at low, slow airspeeds in icing...very tough situation). They could have simply gotten disoriented on the approach (it's happened before...check here for a Learjet that crashed because the pilots screwed up the approach: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X07226&key=1).

There are many accidents that happen like this. Most accidents occur in the approach phase.

posted 10-26-2002 09:30 PM               

July 02, King Air E90 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020726X01231&key=1

February 02, King Air B300 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020302X00298&key=1

August 2001, King Air B200 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010830X01829&key=1

June 2001, King Air C90 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010618X01195&key=1

May 2001, King Air B90 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010521X00978&key=1

January 2001, King Air B200 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010208X00421&key=1

January 2001, King Air F90 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010206X00396&key=1

December 200, King Air B200 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20010109X00069&key=1

These are just a few. The King Air has been in production since the 1960s, and there have been many more accidents. One thing you'll notice are many of these accidents occured during takeoff or landing.

During my own research as a safety officer, nearly 70% of the fatal accidents involving turbine-powered aircraft occured with one or more the following conditions:

1. During approach and landing
2. While flying a non-precision approach
3. During IMC (instrument) weather conditions
4. At night

posted 10-26-2002 09:46 PM               

"And what is there to do about it anyway? It was a plane crash in bad weather. Happens all the time. No, it doesn't happen all the time."

Actually, it happens alot more than you think. The above links are to King Air fatal crashes in just the past 2 or so years...doesn't include the dozens of other aircraft types.

"Pilots fly planes of all sizes in torrential rain, sleet, hail, blizzards, the worst atmospheric conditions imaginable"

Actually we don't. We avoid rain showers. We certainly don't fly through hail (if it can dent your car in a parking lot sitting still, imagine it hitting an airplane at 200-400 knots). Sleet is a big no-no too, because our anti-ice or de-ice systems can't keep up. In fact, the USAF forbids pilots to fly into sleet/freezing rain. And blizzards a big no-no too. In order to land these airplanes, you have to see the runway. Blizzards don't help that.

If pilots could fly in the "worst atmospheric conditions imaginable", then why do airports shut down during snow storms or heavy thunderstorms?

"But there's surely nothing evidential left to 'prove' it was not an accident, which would beg the question of sabotage"

Again, we check every system before each flight. Engines are checked. Flight controls are checked. Flaps, spoilers, brakes, electrical systems, pressurization, anti-ice systems....all are checked before we push the power up and roll down the runway. If they don't work...we taxi back and get it fixed.

And before the pilots get in the airplane, a thorough pre-flight inspection is made to ensure there isn't any fluid leaking, parts hanging, or anything else unusual-looking. And on the Lear, we even open the tailcone access door and stick our head up there and make sure nothing's leaking or broken.

The fact is that sabotage isn't really common, because it's pretty hard to sabotage something that isn't going to get caught by the crew. Not to mention that ATC had pretty much a normal radio conversation with the crew, indicating that up till the last minute, everything was normal.

"What others of us see, however, is a growing pattern of untimely, and horrific, deaths of people in a position to threaten those in power, who intend to maintain it at any cost"

As far as I have heard recently, only Ron Brown sticks out as the other supposed "victim" of sabotage, and again I've been privvy to read the actual evidence, and didn't see anything unusual. All the facts lined up to form the conclusion.