posted 12-16-2002 04:19 PM            

You completely ignored the fact that I stated George W. Bush has signed in to law, legislation that violates the constitution and therefore his OATH OF OFFICE. He is a traitor. Nothing more...Nothing less.

You have a right to your opinion about large corporations that are actually fair and don't take bribes and funnel money to politicians. I can think of only a handful...like Patagonia Outdoor clothing. Ben and Jerry's, Kenneth Cole clothing. The majority are ruining this country and sucking it dry. They could care less if we end up with a one world governement. So much the better for them. That would drive wages here down to Mexico levels.

You need to study the globalist agenda. Bush, and Bush SR. are BIG TIME players. Start by reading about the WTO, FTAA, NAFTA,FAST- TRACK, GATT and the proposed MAI treaty. ALL of which "nuke" our democratically enacted sovereign laws to favor corporate profits. Sorry...IT IS REAL...NOT A CONSPIRACY.

You can disagree..it's still a free country. But not for long. Watch what you say. The USA Patriot Act and the Total Information Awareness/DARPA supercomputer is compiling information about EVERYTHING you do.

Al Qaida is a CIA created organization. i would go as far as to say they are still on the payroll. Try looking up..."THE CARLYLE GROUP" in a search engine. You will find that The Bushes have been doing buisnes with the Bin Ladens for years and years.

Wars and threats have been created all throughout history to get people to do whatever their elected or unelected leaders want. It has been anowlaged by the History channel that the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" never occured. For that we got thousands of U.S. Soldiers dead and many families and people scarred for life from that war.

Now it has been stated that Roosevelt knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. The result of that one cost even more thousands of lives. The U.S. knew it wanted to drop the bomb and this was part of their excuse.

Prescott Bush had financial ties to the Nazis, another carefully covered up fact of the 20th Century.

Who knows what they are hiding today. I know what the outcome will be and what their plans are....A NEW WORLD ORDER.

Plain and simple.

Again...do your own research. your opinion is welcome.

posted 12-16-2002 04:55 PM            

_________________________________________________________

I agree and I am all for this debate. My question for you is, how can you go to bed at night, thinking the way you do, and actually sleep? Talk about stress. Wouldn't it be healthier and more productive if you assume that most people aren't that evil? If Bush Jr is a criminal as you say, then fine, that's your opinion. But don't lump him in with his father. Bush Sr and Bush Jr are two entirely different people.
_________________________________________________________

The acorn doesn't drop far from the tree in the case of George Jr vs Sr.

posted 12-16-2002 06:19 PM               

"Watch what you say. The USA Patriot Act and the Total Information Awareness/DARPA supercomputer is compiling information about EVERYTHING you do."

And who is analyzing this information? Try to follow the whereabouts and activities on a twenty-four hour basis of even one person in your life, and tell me that this is not a hugely time consuming task. Even if every email and every post on the internet on every webboard were somehow captured and stored in a computer and certain words were flagged, you'd still end up with about a zillion man hours to process the data. And then say, out of a billion emails, you flag two hundred million, who is going to go through the two hundred million to decide who is most dangerous to the government and who is not. Who is going to prosecute and on what basis when they decide that of the two hundred million suspects, forty million are potential "enemies of the state". What then? Do you try to investigate forty million people? What you are suggesting would take a society that is a lot more insular than the one we have now. It's still a lot easier to shoot yourself in the foot than it is to murder or set someone else up without getting caught.

DARPA worries me. I don't know of anybody that isn't concerned about this organization. But it's hard enough to keep secrets with just a handful of high security military personnel (Area 51 leaks), let alone try to set up a huge spy organization that makes enemies of the people it employs. Which isn't to say that this organization doesn't need to be watched, and if necessary, reigned in. How? I don't know but the fact that DARPA is so controversial is a good thing--they can't hide. They are a spy group who will be spied on.

"Al Qaida is a CIA created organization. i would go as far as to say they are still on the payroll. Try looking up..."THE CARLYLE GROUP" in a search engine. You will find that The Bushes have been doing buisnes with the Bin Ladens for years and years."

Al quaeda is not a CIA created organization. It's the spread of Wahabisim, wthich is a fundamentalist sect within Islam, that is the root of Al Quaeda. They are, just like the Christian Crusaders in the middle ages, on a quest to spread their religion to as many places as possible. Al quaeda terrorists have a religious agenda not a political or financial one. The fact that the CIA USED them for their own purposes during the Cold War to keep Russia at bay in Afghanistan, is common knowledge, but it doesn't change the facts--Saudi Arabia breeds these fanatics and they go out and spread the poison. The United States isn't the only country to use fanatics for it's own purposes, to do it's dirty work. Probably every country in existence has done it. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours "is hardly a new, American only policy.

"it has been stated that Roosevelt knew that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor. The result of that one cost even more thousands of lives. The U.S. knew it wanted to drop the bomb and this was part of their excuse."

If you are talking about the "what really happened website, which reveals documents supporting the idea that the government under President Rossevelt deliberately provoked Japan into attacking us, yes, I believe it. Did our government know when or how this would happen? I doubt it. War is still a chess game--you can provoke but nobody knows for sure what, how, when the response will be.

But let's say it never happened--Japan wasn't provoked, they didn't attack us, we didn't drop the bomb, we didn't got to war in Europe. Would everybody be speaking German right now? The nazi's claimed they were only interested in the continent of Europe. But had they succeeded, what then? What would have stopped them from continuing on, and with their help of their allies, attacking us with a lot more force and support behind them?

Like fundamentalist Muslims, who aren't content just to pray and worship in private, the Nazi party wanted to spread their agenda--they thought they were superior to other human beings. That's why they were dangerous and morally wrong. And it's also why Islamic fundamentalists must be stopped. You only have to look at Saudi Arabia to see the truth. Half the human population (females) are not only second class citizens, they define the word "slave". No birth certificate, no death certificate--they are property. Wahabism is an insidious set of religious beliefs that wants to put all the power in the hands of a few clerics. They will go to the grave before they will give up that power--and they are.

I know all about the Carlyle group. An investment group that keeps people with high level contacts very rich. The more we expose about the Carlyle group and it's memebers activities, the better. Yes, the Bush administration protected the Bin Laden family because of these financial contacts and that stinks. But the Bush administration is still taking heat from that mistake, and the end result is that Saudi/US relations are on the hot plate even more now than had they not received this special treatment. It has made people aware of the Carlyle group, the Bin Laden wealth and in how many hands it stretches. It has made many more people aware of the Saudi's and what they believe--what they teach in their schools, how they truly feel about their "friend" the United States. In the past year and a half, since 9/11, journalists from both political parties have supplied heat about the hypocrisy of the U.S./Saudi relationship. The Saudi's and the Bin Ladens are not happy.

Corrupt individuals within the government need to be exposed. But if you think our government is bad, consider living in a country like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq or Kuwait. We will never be a police state. Americans are a mixture of too many cultures, races and relgions to ever be of one mind. We still have the right to bear arms, and pushed to the wall, it would be "give me liberty or give me death". You can't kill freedom in this country, and our opinions freely expressed on this webboard is proof of that.

Note: if this webboard gets shut down, I'll start changing my tune. Ha Ha

Swamp gas: I don't think I've resorted to name calling...I don't recall calling anybody a conspiracy theorist, nut or whatever. As a matter of fact, I'm really interested in what everybody has to say. I just wanted to throw in my own two cents. And like you, I'd rather be prepared than sorry. We just disagree on what's coming down the road.

posted 12-18-2002 03:17 PM            

Not very funny if you ask me.I take this situation seriously...REAL SERIOUSLY. ISPs are already going down in Britian and the threats here are growing and growing.

I find it HIGHLY alarming that Keli is defending Bush even though he is pissing on everything our veterans fought and died for in the U.S. Constitution. Not to mention letting our economy sink into oblivion.

This whole vaccine debacle sacres the tar out of me....especially when you read things like this....
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000219.html

posted 12-18-2002 10:56 PM               

You keep going on and on on about Bush... The Presidential office is just musical chairs. While Bush Jr was still on the campaign trail, chemtrails already covered the skies.

I did not vote for George W. I never respected Bush Sr, and I did not want his son to win. But I watched the election very closely--every time Bush Jr was backed into a corner, he came out fighting. He's got a backbone and he's more independent than his father.

But go ahead, demonize Bush all you want. As far as I'm concerned, it's a waste of time.

Say Bush does not get re-elected. Will the chemtrails stop?

If you really want to find out what's going on, you're going to have to go a lot deeper than the puppet, I mean man, who sits in the White House. He's just a temporary front man in a very complex set of circumstances.

posted 12-19-2002 12:12 AM            

"========You keep going on and on on about Bush... The Presidential office is just musical chairs. While Bush Jr was still on the campaign trail, chemtrails already covered the skies.================"

It's because the man is a criminal and a murderer. Most importantly..he's a traitor.
He must be tried in a military court.

"=========I did not vote for George W. I never respected Bush Sr, and I did not want his son to win.==========="

THEN WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU STICKING UP FOR THIS 21st CENTURY BENEDICT ARNOLD!!!!!????

"====Say Bush does not get re-elected. Will the chemtrails stop?======"

How am I supposed to know that? I'm not dionne warwick.

"=======If you really want to find out what's going on, you're going to have to go a lot deeper than the puppet, I mean man, who sits in the White House.=========="

Keep wavin' the cheer flags for em though right Keli...?

I have been studying the NWO/globalist agenda for many years now. It's not difficult at all to figure out.The figureheads change but it's the same game.

What is different now is the fact that this country RIGHT NOW is in SERIOUS TROUBLE.

Read up about the NWO and current events nationwide and you will see what I am talking about.

posted 12-19-2002 01:05 AM            

mech getting back to topic...small pox is highly contagious...highly...very deadly....that's why it is such a threat...that's what *they* know and you would too if you would read some...ahem...serious literature...

>>>snort<<<

maybe you should pick up a copy of dangerous and deadly infectious diseases...

posted 12-19-2002 01:26 AM            

I detect a heavy dose of sarcasm in your post.

I say... get in line and go roll up your arm Seeker. Shoot up all of that FEDERALLY FUNDEd 100% GRADE A, HOMELAND SECURITY APPROVED,"for your protection" "Vaccine".

Go for it Mr. Patriot.

posted 12-19-2002 02:46 AM            

I've already had the smallpox vaccine anyway...my wife got it twice by mistake...yes...were oldschool...

and sarcasm is my middle name...

posted 12-19-2002 08:47 AM            

1) How does the government know it's going to be smallpox when the following could be administered just as easily, with some even more deadly than smallpox-anthrax, cryptococcosis, escherichia coli, haemophilus influenzae, brucellosis (undulant fever), coccidioidomycosis (San Joaquin Valley or desert fever), psittacosis (parrot fever), yersina pestis (the Black Death of the 14th Century), tularemia (rabbit fever), malaria, cholera, typhoid, bubonic plague, cobra venom, shellfish toxin, botulinal toxin, saxitoxin, ricin, shigella flexneri, s. dysenteriae (Shiga bacillus), salmonella, staphylococcus enterotoxin B, hemorrhagic fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, histoplasma capsulatum, pneumonic plague, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, dengue fever, Rift Valley fever, diphtheria, melioidosis, glanders, tuberculosis, infectious hepatitis, encephalitides, blastomycosis, nocardiosis, yellow fever, typhus, tricothecene mycotoxin, aflatoxin, Q fever, or ebola.

posted 12-20-2002 01:38 AM            

my best shot below, gas

1)well from what I gather when ussr fell a great many things became...for sale....not that those critters you posted does not have any relevance it's just a question of availability...the superbugs have a genetic tag with them...when putin was at the ranch he may have confessed that some of their nasty small pox stock was...missing...(due to conditions that occurred in russia after the fall of hammer and sicle) maybe that's why the annoucement...or it could be as simple as POKER....

which big dog (china) out there could be feeding directly or (russia) indirectly these little one's that hate us so much....possibly an attempt to weaken us...I DO NOT trust the red chinese...

2)I think in my long~windedness...it may have taken care of question #2...but who's to say evil people have not already been releasing things...only from the depths of hell come the blackest of hate...

live love and be happy for today may be your last...

Merry Christmas gas

posted 12-20-2002 02:30 AM            

Ohhhhhh...You mean like our own corrupt government?

VERY probable.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000039.html

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000219.html

posted 12-20-2002 05:16 AM            

BUSH ADMIN..PR MANUEVERS GETTING MORE DESPERATE........

DECEMBER 19. Before our eyes, the mass smallpox-vaccine plan is going into the toilet. NBC is reporting, get THIS: “Health officials strongly discourage this [getting the vaccine], and said once people became aware of the risks, they expected few to press for the vaccine.”

TRANSLATION: THE WHOLE THING IS A BUST. THE MEDICAL CARTEL COULDN’T KEEP ITS STORY STRAIGHT. DOCTORS AND MEDICAL BUREAUCRATS SCURRIED AWAY FROM THE SCENE YELLING, “DON’T BLAME ME IF A LOT OF PEOPLE DIE.”

More from NBC: “’The federal government is not recommending vaccination…of the general public,’ said Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson. ‘There may, however, be members of the public who insist on being vaccinated.’”

TRANSLATION: AVOID THIS VACCINE LIKE THE PLAGUE. UNLESS YOU’RE CRAZY.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, who leads the smallpox vaccine program for the US National Institutes of Health, said [this is MSNBC's paraphrase of Fauci: “While the vaccine will be offered to adults on a voluntary basis, it will not be available for children except in the event of a smallpox [biowar] attack." Then Fauci remarked on the record: "Ethical and safety concerns bar children from clinical trials being conducted now, meaning the vaccine cannot be licensed for them. If Mom comes up to one of the local and state health officials and says, ‘I want vaccine for my 5-year-old,’ currently there doesn’t appear to be a mechanism for them to get it.”

TRANSLATION: THEN WE SAID YES. NOW WE SAY NO. GET OUT OF MY FACE. I’M GOING TO THE BAHAMAS FOR TWO WEEKS. HOLD ALL MY CALLS.

And then we have this, which I thought was a hacker’s trick of inserting an early April Fool’s story at AP: “Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson said Sunday he does not plan to be inoculated with the smallpox vaccine and recommends that other Cabinet members not request the inoculation either.”

TRANSLATION: YEAH, A FEW MONTHS AGO I WAS LIKE AN ANGRY GOD DEMANDING THAT THE WHOLE COUNTRY GET SHOT UP WITH THIS STUFF. BUT NOW I WOULDN’T TOUCH IT ON A BET. AND BUSH, HA HA, IT’S TOO LATE FOR HIM. HE ALREADY PROMISED HE’D TAKE IT HIMSELF. I MEAN, IF HE’S ORDERING ALL THE TROOPS TO GET IT, THEN HE, AS COMMANDER IN CHIEF, HAS TO DO IT TOO. THAT’S HIS PROBLEM. HOLD ALL MY CALLS. AND REFER ALL INQUIRIES ABOUT THE DANGER OF THE VACCINE TO SOLDIERS TO THE PENTAGON. I’M OUT OF IT. THAT’S THEIR DEAL. SOLDIERS AREN’T PEOPLE. THEY’RE SOLDIERS.

PLEASE GET THIS STORY OUT.

If I’m hallucinating and these wire stories and NBC and CNN reports are all part of a plot of to personally derange me, I’ll take the heat.

One thing to remember: Now the vaccine is all about A BIOWAR ATTACK. IF THERE IS NO ATTACK, THEN THOSE 300 MILLION DOSES ARE ON THE SHELF, EXCEPT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL RUNNING ON FUMES FROM THE EARLIER PROPAGANDA CAMPAIGN AND THINK THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO DO THEIR DUTY AS GOOD LITTLE PATRIOTS AND GET THE SHOT---WHICH MAY INCLUDE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF THOSE LOCAL VACCINE CENTERS THAT HAVE BEEN PREPPING THEIR COMMUNITIES ABOUT THE UTTER NECESSITY OF TAKING THE SHOT. I BET THE CDC IS BURNING UP THE WIRES SENDING OUT CANCELLATION AND DON’T-BLAME-US NOTICES.

SO NOW, SUPPOSE A BIOWAR ATTACK IS STAGED? WHAT HAPPENS THEN? I’LL TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENS. THE SAME GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ARE RUNNING OFF INTO THE NIGHT WILL COME BACK AND SAY, “YOU HAVE TO GET THIS TOXIC VACCINE.”

EXCEPT THEY MAY BE MORE CAUTIOUS. ONE CASE OF SMALLPOX IN LITTLE ROCK MAY NOT TRIGGER 300 MILLION VACCINATIONS. WE’LL SEE.

Do you think hundreds of people putting out the truth about this vaccine on the Internet had any effect on the sudden and amazing turnaround by the government?

IS THE POPE CATHOLIC?

Note: NO ONE IN THE GOVERNMENT IS YET SAYING, “WOW, WE SCREWED UP ROYALLY. WE SAID YES AND WE NOW SAY NO NO NO.” AND NO ONE IN THE CONTROLLED PRESS IS SAYING, "MAN, THIS IS A DISASTER. THEY TOLD US A AND NOW THEY TELL US B. ARE THESE PEOPLE IDIOTS?" THERE ARE A HUNDRED VERY CORROSIVE QUESTIONS REPORTERS COULD ASK THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW BUT THEY'RE SO FAR BITING THEIR TONGUES. HARD. SO HARD THEY'RE BLEEDING. "SECRETARY THOMPSON, AREN'T YOU THE GUY WHO WAS ABSOLUTELY FOAMING AT THE MOUTH WITH SOME KIND OF BIZARRE ANGER A FEW MONTHS AGO? WEREN'T YOU READY TO PUT PEOPLE IN CHAINS IF THEY REFUSED THE VACCINE? YOU KNOW, QUARANTINE, HOUSE ARREST, 20 YEARS AT HARD LABOR ON A DESERT ISLAND?"

IF THE SMALLPOX VACCINE IS DISCREDITED, CAN OTHER VACCINES BE FAR BEHIND?

NOW....WE SEE FIRSTHAND THE EFFECT WE ARE HAVING ON THEIR AGENDA!!!!!!

posted 12-21-2002 01:22 AM            

I'm trying to figure this out, mech you continually cut and paste crap with no linkage back to the original source for verification...jeeze I wonder why ?

anyway...according to the CDC who knows about this stuff unlike out of work mechanics...the maximum 52 out of 1,000,000 will have a fatal reaction to the small pox vaccine...around 40,000 people each year die from illness that could have been prevented by existing vaccines...

guess that would be 40,000 and 1 counting your ignorant butt mech...

everything you ever wanted to know about smallpox

posted 12-21-2002 02:23 AM            

Glad to see you are getting an education Seeker...Otherwise you wouldn't be attacking me as relentless s you are.

You know someone is desperate when they are resorting to slander.

The CDC.? OH!!!! You mean the CENTER FOR DISEASE MANIPULATION AND EUGENICS??

Yeah. I know where their funding comes from.

posted 12-21-2002 07:47 AM            

Original Link: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20021220-39478814.htm

A public campaign of vaccination against smallpox is unsafe and unnecessary, according to new reports released yesterday, and many U.S. health care workers and some hospitals say they will not participate in voluntary immunization programs because of the risks.

"We cannot endorse a public vaccination campaign at this time because the certainty of harm outweighs the small chance of net benefit," a team headed by Sam Bozzette of the Rand Corp. wrote in a New England Journal of Medicine report made available yesterday. It was one of two reports released by the journal that reached that conclusion.

The articles were distributed a week after President Bush announced an initiative of mandatory smallpox inoculation for 500,000 U.S. troops and voluntary vaccinations for at least that many emergency health care workers and members of smallpox-response teams. The plan attempts to help protect them, in the event that the smallpox virus is used as a bioterror weapon.

Mr. Bush said last week that the federal government will make the vaccine available to the public on a voluntary basis. But he stressed that the government will not be recommending that the public receive pre-attack immunization because vaccination can cause death and severe illness in some cases.

Studies from the 1960s show that of every 1 million first-time vaccine users, 15 will suffer life-threatening complications and that one or two will die. A Heritage Foundation policy paper noted that about 300 people would die if the whole country were inoculated.

In the other report released yesterday by the journal, Thomas Mack, a smallpox specialist at the University of Southern California, said smallpox transmission can be stopped by isolating the victim and quickly vaccinating caregivers.

Mr. Mack estimates that no more than 15,000 people would need to be vaccinated if the United States sets up National Guard field hospitals for smallpox patients and those who have come in direct contact with them.

"A terrorist introduction of smallpox could produce a short outbreak of cases of death, but the current vaccine policy will provide little protection. The cost in deaths from vaccine complications will outweigh any benefits," he wrote.

The U.S. military inoculated more than 150 people against smallpox during the past week, but about 100 were exempted for medical reasons, the Pentagon told the Associated Press yesterday.

In the first five days of the military program, 276 persons were screened for the vaccine, with 102 exempted for medical reasons, said Dr. William Winkenwerder Jr., assistant secretary of defense for health affairs.

Meanwhile, emergency health care workers say they want answers to "unanswered questions" about the president's recommendation that they undergo voluntary vaccination against smallpox.

Among those asking questions are the American College of Emergency Physicians, the American Nurses Association (ANA), members of some hospital associations, and, in some cases, hospitals themselves.

"Smallpox is a highly contagious disease, and many hospital workers are concerned about [accidentally infecting] their patients" after being vaccinated with the live virus, said Jim Lott, executive director of the Los Angeles-based Hospital Association of Southern California.

"We're getting a large number of anecdotal reports from hospitals in this area that employees are not reacting warmly to the offer of voluntary smallpox vaccinations. Hospitals are hotbeds for contagion, and this is one more contagion we do not need," Mr. Lott said.

Many doctors and nurses, who would be among the first to treat smallpox patients in an attack, also are wary of receiving the vaccine. "There are still many unanswered questions. For example, there needs to be a risk-benefit analysis to compare the risks of a mass [smallpox] vaccination program and the potential of a terrorist attack" using smallpox, said Dr. Brian Hancock, president-elect of the American College of Emergency Physicians.

But Dr. Hancock said doctors need to know the risks of the vaccine to those who receive it and to "immunosuppressed patients" they treat, such as patients infected with HIV and those who have undergone organ transplants.

"If there is ever a smallpox attack, those patients will be in our laps," Dr. Hancock said, referring to emergency physicians. "But until we get answers to the questions we're asking, we have stopped short of recommending mandatory [smallpox] vaccinations" for those in emergency medicine, he said.

Jim Bentley, a senior vice president of the American Hospital Association, says he knows of two hospitals that don't plan to offer staff vaccinations — Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta and Virginia Commonwealth University's medical center in Richmond.

"It is difficult to support the decision to vaccinate hospital personnel when there has been no case of smallpox for 30 years and when there's a large probability" that vaccinated workers could transmit disease to patients, Dr. Richard Wenzel, chairman of the Richmond hospital's infectious disease department, told the Associated Press.

Mary Jean Schumann, director of nursing practice and policies for the ANA, said she raised questions about vaccine risks and liability in a letter she sent last month to Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson. "We haven't heard anything" from him, she said.

Ms. Schumann said there is a big concern about liability, should a hospital employee become sick from the vaccine. "The only recourse an employee would have for an adverse reaction would be to file workmen's compensation, which, of course, affects the hospital."

THAT'S OK...JUST MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO SUE.....RIGHT BUSH?

posted 12-21-2002 05:28 PM            

small-pox vaccine is not even made from the small pox virus....those people should be fired....

my gosh mech you'll believe anything won't choo ? what a joke your evolving into...

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/overview/faq.asp#vaccinia

bush took the vaccine today mech...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23019-2002Dec21.html