posted 01-01-2003 04:59 PM               

We aren't on pure oxygen. We breathe outside ambient air. This is how it works (I thought you were an A&P?): Air passes into the engines, and is compressed by the compressor section. There is a valve coming off the compressor section called the Bleed Air Modulation Valve (or Mod Valve). This valve provides both low pressure (30-40 psi), high volume air, and high pressure, low volume air to operate the aircraft pneumatic systems.

Some of the compressed air is vented off to provide hot compressed air for the anti-ice systems (wing, stabilizer, nacelle and windshield anti-ice). The rest of it is sent through the emergency pressurization valves (normally closed), then through the conditioning system where the air is cooled (or else we'd have 300 degree air coming into the cabin), then pumped into the cabin to provide us with pressurized air.

The cabin pressurization system maintains a 9.2 psi differential to keep the cabin pressurized.

You see Mech, it's not the *lack* of oxygen at altitude, it's the fact that the air up there has too low of a partial pressure. The engine compressor pressurizes the air for us so it's concentrated enough to breathe. So yes, we do breathe outside air. We do not breathe air from oxygen tanks, unless we suffer a decompression. We have one oxygen tank on the airplane, and it's for emergency use only.

Now back to Tulsa. I flew through a contrail over Tulsa. You may be exposed to it for a longer period of time, but if I flew through the actual source (and I fly through contrails like that daily), you'd think I'd be getting sick too, but I'm not. And none of the pilots are getting sick either.

Think of it this way....say a railroad car explodes, and unleashes a toxic cloud. Sure, the surrounding residents will probably get sick over time because they are exposed to low levels of the contaminant over a period of time. But if you drove your car through the cloud, with your windows rolled down, you'd probably get sick right away because you were exposed to higher concentrations.

Argue with me if you want, but prior to flying full time, I was an environmental geologist, and I studied toxic waste management, PELs and stuff like that. If a contrail really is full of stuff that makes people sick, then pilots should be amongst the sickest because they fly through the source itself daily. From what I gather, this conspiracy theory doesn't just involve Tulsa. So your arguement that I was over Tulsa for only a few minutes doesn't hold water if this alleged spray program is an ongoing national occurance. I flew through, and in very close proximity, of several large contrails that day. Just like every day I go flying.

And I'm very healthy. So are the other pilots I fly with. So are all the civilian pilots I know. We have to be, because we get physicals at least once a year, if not more often (airline pilots get physicals every 6 months).

You see, you have not provided me any proof showing that you've conclusively been able to exclude all other sources of air pollution. You have no proof that your patients are suffering from mysterious contrails. For all you know, they could be suffering from industrial pollution, automobile pollution, indoor mold, cigarette smoking....the list is long of the sources of things that can make a person sick. And you simply have nothing other than your gut feeling saying that contrails are to blame.

Those of us labeled as "debunkers" feel that is one of the major sticking points of the theory....there has never been a study to rule out other sources of pollution as the source of anyone's sickness. It's simply assumed that "chemtrails" are causing it. Using assumptions to slander a whole industry and an entire branch of the US military is in itself a dishonest endeavor.

How would you feel if I accused you of poor medical practice because I "assumed" that my relative died in your hospital due to your incompetence? No proof, nothing...just lashing out and jumping to the conclusion that they died because you're an idiot nurse. You'd be indignant. You'd be insulted. And you'd probably say to me "show me proof that I screwed up". I'm simply doing the same.

posted 01-01-2003 09:52 PM            

Typical spammer.

Why don't you suck some more trailer hitch with all of the rest of those COINTELPRO wussy boys.

Your not a real American as far as I 'm concerned if you think this government is honest and constitutional...you're part of the problem.

posted 01-01-2003 10:15 PM            

"-----I thank God every day that I live in a free country like the United States.-----"

You are 100% INDOCTRINATED.

A FREE COUNTRY?

Look around my friend....OUR "Freedom" is RAPIDLY disappearing at a MAD pace.

HOMELAND SECURITY ACT,USA PATRIOT ACT, OFFICE OF STRATEGIC INFLUENCE/IAO/DARPA,NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and all the other draconian laws being passed that are destroying our national sovereignty and CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.

YOU SIR..are the 'commie'

YOU SIR...are the 'anti-american'

You better pick your battles wisely.

I think chemtrail activists should be the LEAST of your concerns.

posted 01-01-2003 10:28 PM            

I'm a constitutionalist.

"--- I get fired up easy over dumb stuff I see on the net like this.----"

The feeling is mutual.

posted 01-01-2003 11:19 PM               

Typical cop-out answer....that somehow because people wish to criticize a theory, that somehow means that theory is valid.

My reasons for posting are motivated by seeing my fellow service men and women slandered, and to correct ignorant assertations about aircraft and the aviation industry in general. The aviation industry is already maligned enough.

posted 01-01-2003 11:50 PM            

You can thank G.W. Bush and the CIA for the downfall of the aviation industry.The rest of us know who the real "terrorists" are.

Anyone who thinks Major media is telling the truth or the whole story is 100% ASLEEP.

I don't blame most pilots...they are not involved.Just like most military people are not involved.They are just paying the bills like everyone else. It's the ones who are doing the globalists dirtywork.

The media is full of $#!+, end of story.

I for one won't be decieved so easily.

posted 01-02-2003 02:18 AM               

See Mech, this is where I have alot of heartburn. Some (many) of the people that frequent this site believe that our military will have no problem installing a military dictatorship.

If it were to ever come to that, myself, along with nearly everyone else in uniform, would walk off the job and refuse to oppress our fellow Americans. It's not what we took an oath to do. We swore to uphold the Constitution, NOT make sure grandma Jones goes to a concentration camp.

The mere fact that so many people on this message board believes that their military would ever do that and "just follow orders" to round up their own neighbors and family members at the request of one person or regime is insulting. It's a direct attack on the integrity of anyone who wears (or wore) a uniform in the US military.

posted 01-02-2003 02:58 AM            

They sure as hell had no problem rounding up thousands of Muslims, many of which are STILL being held without a trial or conviction.Cameras are everywhere, unconstitutional laws have been passed...wiretapping is legal again....military checkpoints on our streets..YEAH...THAT SOUNDS LIKE A FREE COUNTRY TO ME!! But everything is FINE...right Pacer?

I see a tyrannical government, OUR government(by globalists/for globalists) capeable of cooking up a scheme/disaster to BLAME a whole new batch of people to cover up THEIR OWN TREACHERY.

Militia groups and gun owners for example.

Hey it worked with Timothy Mc Veigh and OKC.

I think 9-11 was just the TEST CASE for a total police state.A NEW WORLD ORDER

This is NOT the worst case scenario.

This is just the opening salvo of their endgame.

posted 01-02-2003 03:24 AM               

It is true that Yugoslav Army did not do that to all of Yugoslav Citizens, most of those of Serb nationality, but not all, were exempt. At the beginning and during the first months of that war, on the top and any other commanding level of that army were the officers that came from all nationalities that lived in Ex Yugoslavia. They were Croats, Slovenians, Macedonians, Serbs.
In the initial phase among the most diligent, at what at first looked like defense of the Constitution, were officers of non-Serbian origins. Later on when many of them have realized that it was a Civil war whose scope was to create a nationalist state, the Great Serbia which was to stay out of the Western European integration process and approach Russia, they were retired or escaped to the other parts of the country.
That war against Yugoslav Constitution has resulted with the destruction of Ex Yugoslavia.

This is a first hand information, I was there all the time and did not take parts until long after all was finished.

posted 01-02-2003 10:20 AM            

If it were to ever come to that, myself, along with nearly everyone else in uniform, would walk off the job and refuse to oppress our fellow Americans. It's not what we took an oath to do. We swore to uphold the Constitution, NOT make sure grandma Jones goes to a concentration camp.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

What signs in particular would let you know that a gulag state is defacto operational? Do you think that fascism will be a Nazi style or communism will be Stalinesque? I feel that the New World Order (as said by George HW Bush, Hitler, Goebbels, and Gary Hart, amongst others), will be/is more "friendly", with enough terror to keep everyone stressed out. Do you feel the gutting of the Constitution is worth this fake sense of security? The Neo-fascists have learned their lessons from the past. They can't march around TOO MUCH (a little is OK for now), else they give away The Plan. You see, most of you are textbook learned of the events of the past 50 or so years. I personally have witnessed the rise of the NWO, from the late 40's. Talk to anyone over 50 that has more than half a brain left. Even Nixonian Conservatives are concerned. If you support Bush, you are supporting a RADICAL, not a true conservative. Don't think that military people are the only ones who "protect" America.

ROFLMAO,
The government does and will harm the public. You say we have freedom. Where are all the critics of Bush on TV and radio? Practically none. POint being, there are a lot of critics. The media is controlled by the global elite. Our "freedom" is a house of cards. You have the freedom to watch football, watch crap movies, listen to junk music, eat poisoned food, drink yourself into a stupor, and fight amongst ourselves for who has the best view of reality. Please don't give me the "Love it or leave it", worn out phrase. Doubt it? See these.

http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/00-04-28b.htm

http://www.ncf.ca/coat/our_magazine/links/issue46/articles/history_of_biowarfare_in_usa.htm

http://30th.freedommag.org/page17.htm

http://tis.eh.doe.gov/ohre/

http://pw1.netcom.com/~ncoic/cia_info.htm

posted 01-02-2003 07:05 PM               

The number one reason why your beliefs will always remain on the fringe is because of your attitude. Every last one of you essentially stated that myself and all of the other Americans are simply too stupid to figure out what's going on in their lives. It's this basic lack of respect for other's intellectual capacity that gets you in trouble with "getting your message out".

People will continue to turn their noses up to your message not because of mind control, vaccines or drugs, but because you simply put them off by insulting their intelligence.

I'm sure you'll respond to my next statement with the normal chemtrail believer drivel of "oh, they've really got you hooked" and "you're just a mindless sheeple with no clue", etc. But I don't live in a glass sphere. I grew up living in other countries, and I've been to a wide number of places and had a broad experience base in life. I read alot. I don't watch very much television. And not to brag, but I feel I'm fairly capable to determine myself what constitutes working outside my mandate to defend the Constitution and America's citizens and allies.

I'm certainly no Einstein. And I'm not what anyone would term a "great thinker". But I'm not a mindless drone, and my heels don't snap together sharply at every word my commander says to me. In fact I often find myself at odds with certain policies that the Air Force endorses. Yet I use my own personal discretion to determine if it's worth walking away from the military over. 99.99% of the time, my grievances are superficial. In those cases, I keep my grumblings to myself...a good officer works behind the scenes to fix what they see as a bad idea rather than outwardly attack their leadership.

I've never had to deal with what I would term "real" issues...like being told to kill civilians, or conduct actions that compromise my fellow Americans' rights or well being.

Most other people in the military are intelligent enough to know when their job is detrimental to their family and friends. And all of us are smart enough to know that not all politicians have our best interests at heart. And I've never said that our system of government is perfect and I've always acknowleged the grave actions taken my certain government organizations in the past (and present).

However, pulling myself into a shell and jeering service personnel is hardly a way to avoid this so-called police state you feel we are moving towards.

If you're so convinced that this is the direction our nation is moving in, then why don't you do the honorable thing and TRY TO HELP OUT instead of sitting on the sides criticizing those who actually have the task of running our nation's military?

I end this post by leaving you one thought to think about, and I'd honestly like to hear your input:

You say you are trying to "awaken" me to the evil ways of the government. There is a strong undertone that you feel the only way to fight this is for me to resign and join your ranks. So what then? What if all the "good guys" quit the military and government. Who's going to take their place? Wouldn't it be MORE beneficial to encourage people to get more invovled in their country's leadership by becoming military officers and government officials? Why do you insist that the only way to solve the problem is for the "smart people" to abandon their positions in the government, only to leave a vacuum for potentially unscrupulous people to fill in?