posted 02-11-2003 07:10 PM            

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There is not much more conservative than a true constitutionalist patriot. Restore the bill of rights and get the feds out of my business. Basics.

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Ok....how do we restore the bill of rights and get the feds out of your business? Let's talk practicalities. When you have enemies surrounding you, working 24/7 to keep the fed IN your business, it's going to take strategery to get them out, isn't it. Bush has to deal with this reality. You, on the other hand, just have a wish list. Bush has to work in an real environment where foreign enemies are threatening nuclear terrorism, where he must organize a war, while at the same time, Domestic enemies to America (liberal Democrats) are attacking everything he does and says. Let's say his agenda IS to remove the Feds from your business (which I do see indications that it is). Well some very aggressive, very persistent freedom hating, power obsessed, subversives are trying to undermine everything he is trying to achieve (Tom Daschle, for example). It takes strategery to defeat them first. Unlike your fantasies, Bush can't just wave a magic wand and make things happen. He has to deal with reality. But it is his duty to protect this country and it's citizens while these wars are waged, and that is a reality and obligation he takes very seriously. That may temporarily step on some perceived rights while we are at war, but this is certainly not without precedence. Look at the Japanese detention camps of WWII. Do you think we could do that today with middle eastern Americans? I think not. I’d say your rights are more in tact today than they were then. I don't like the idea of giving up any rights, any more than you do, but let's put the ball in your court, FLK. Do you have any better solutions as to how to secure America from this terrorist threat that could easily destroy it? I'm sure Bush would like to hear them.

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He thinks that saying I'm not a true conservative or calling me a liberal is an insult. Years ago I might have agreed with him.

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That's where you are wrong. I don't mean to call you a liberal, and I don't mean to insult you. If you were insulted, it was not because I intended anything as an insult, but moreover, as a statement of my honest assessment.

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When you read more and more in the news today of far right and far left fighting together to perserve our rights the left doesn't seem so much like the enemy anymore.

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This is why I don't think you are a true conservative. No true conservative could really make such a statement.

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Maybe someday he'll wake up and see the lie of democrat v republican for what it truly is.

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The assumption that the two American parties of government is a "lie" is also a statement that no conservative could make. It is an unfounded belief, unsubstantiated by reality.

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I don't care for his tactics either but in BJ's defense it isn't easy admiting the side you've thought was "right" all those years turns out to be just another bad side of the same wrong coin.

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I don't admit it because I don't believe it. I don't believe it because I don't see any evidence whatsoever that your statement is at all valid or true. Judging by what I’ve read of your posts, I do believe I have a more complex understanding of the intricacies of politics than you do however, and recognize a false generalized statement for what it is.

posted 02-11-2003 08:47 PM            

Kook,
Actually, I see you as a right/conservative leaning libertarian, where as myself, perhaps a left/prog leaning ibertarian. This is meant to be a compliment. This is why we can both agree on Ron Paul for president. People like BJ are EXTREME right leaning conservatives. The Constitution doesn't seem that important to him. or his brethren. I encourage opposites to communicate, to at least understand the other side.

posted 02-11-2003 11:43 PM            

Going back to where he accuses me of changing the subject (I did not) He asks....I answered go back and look at the post he obviously didn't read.

Then BJ pronounces the globalist conspiracy moot, I answer with facts about the CFR (as you know just the tip of info on the subject) but it also demonstrated the voting process set up, how it's not really a choice. Perhaps BJ didn't bother to read it, or any of the links he promised to take time to read in my prior posts...Hey no wonder he just wanted the link, wouldn't want any information here that might not agree with his conditioning. BJ moaned "wouldn't a link have done". )

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BTW, what do you think of my comments on the voting process and why it renders the global elite as a dominant power theory moot? Do you agree?

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Then he throws this one..

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Obviously, you can't handle logic when it's thrown at you like that. I'll tell you what the illusion here is; The illusion is that you are a conservative. All you had to do was respond to my actual points, but you played the typical liberal game..."when you can't deal with a subject rationally, or respond to a point directly, change the subject or distract with irrelevant issues".

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Cut me some slack if I got any of this out of sequence. You get the point. Well most of you do. Let me guess who won't... Arghhhhh

posted 02-12-2003 12:07 AM            

Cato Institute..by Robert A. Levy, Senior Fellow in Constitutional Studies, Cato Institute A version of this article orginally appeared in Liberty magazine. If you think the Bill of ... http://www.cato.org/current/terrorism/pubs/levy-martial-law.html

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jan/01192003/utah/21609.asp

REPRESSIVE PATRIOT ACT MAKING STRANGE BEDFELLOWS?
(The Bill of Rights isn't left or right)
by H. Millard (c) 2002 http://www.newnation.org/Millard/Millard-Repressive-Patriot-Act.html

USA-PATRIOT Act, but there is no question -if one looks carefully into the provisions of the act - that rights and liberties guaranteed to all of us by the Bill of Rights have been gutted by the USA-PATRIOT Act. It isn't only U.S. liberals and conservatives who are outraged by the loss of rights that have been defended in courts and on battlefields for more than two centuries. Foreign legal and government experts who have long held the United States of America as one of the bastions of democracy are shocked by the ease and speed with which Congress and the President trashed core liberties. http://www.thejusticelobby.org/Home%20Groups/The%20Patriot%20ACT/usapatriotact.html

But liberals (ACLU) and conservatives (Cato Inst.), the very idea of them working toward the same goal makes me an unauthentic conservative.

posted 02-12-2003 01:00 AM            

If anyone here is a true NEO-CON it's Billy

posted 02-12-2003 03:53 PM            

These were my words with supporting links!

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I'm a conservative big time BJM, and at the risk of yet again siding with Mech on an issue, please take the time to get past the left/right smoke screen of the globalist cabal. The Grand Deception is a pretty simple overview of the idea. http://www.freedom-force.org/granddeception.htm
If you can work your way through the Modern Architecture of Political Power web site you'll really be on to the truth of why it seems we are constently forced to choose between the lesser of two evils at the voting booth. http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp (I do not agree with the anti religion views Daniel Pouzzne espouses on this site but most of it is dead on from my research)

As much as I loathed Klinton and his administration I cannot defend Bush and his total disregard for our liberty. You cannot honestly believe that giving up our liberties, freedom and privacy (what's left of it) for so called safety is a workable solution.

Now back to the fiat fed notes, that is the cause of our economic woes...

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This is the absolute last time I will respond to anything you post BJ (insert your own idea of what these initials stand for).

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Don't Chemplicate Life